Is Mr Myers correct?

Nolanger

"And consider this. In the first decade of the 20th century, living Irish writers included Shaw, Wilde, Beckett, Synge, Joyce and O'Casey, whose works live on. We have now had 90 years of independence: what writers born in self-governing Ireland and alive today, who were raised in a literary culture created by our free universities, will be remembered at the start of the 22nd century?"
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-lack-of-rigour-among-our-academics-is-astounding-2038397.html

buck65

John Banville.

Meeja Ireland

buck65 wrote: »

John Banville.

And Brian Friel, Seamus Heaney, Paul Muldoon, Joseph O'Connor, Eavan Boland, Tom Murphy, and take your pick of any five from Hugo Hamilton, Colm Toibin, Conor McPherson, Enda Walsh, Michael Longley, Roddy Doyle, Declan Hughes, Martin MacDonagh, Marina Carr, Brendan Kennelly, Mark O'Rowe, Padraic Fallon, Paul Durkan, Anne Enright, Edna O'Brien, Sebastian Barry....

Of the six writers mentioned from 100 years ago, Joyce had written nothing of value by 1910; Sean O'Casey was eight years away from his first play; Samuel Beckett was four.

Myers is a tool.

fontanalis

What about Paul Howard?

buck65

You mean Ross O Carroll Kelly!?
Seamus Heaney as well as Banville. Hugo Hamilton?:eek:

Meeja Ireland

fontanalis wrote: »

What about Paul Howard?

Stick him on the list, I'd say. There is no telling what ninety years of posterity will do to the reputations of current writers, and no telling what any Irish person over the age of four will publish between now and then.

Sarah Woodruff

Meeja Ireland wrote: »

And Brian Friel, Seamus Heaney, Paul Muldoon, Joseph O'Connor, Eavan Boland, Tom Murphy, and take your pick of any five from Hugo Hamilton, Colm Toibin, Conor McPherson, Enda Walsh, Michael Longley, Roddy Doyle, Declan Hughes, Martin MacDonagh, Marina Carr, Brendan Kennelly, Mark O'Rowe, Padraic Fallon, Paul Durkan, Anne Enright, Edna O'Brien, Sebastian Barry....

Of the six writers mentioned from 100 years ago, Joyce had written nothing of value by 1910; Sean O'Casey was eight years away from his first play; Samuel Beckett was four.

Myers is a tool.

I'd say you're being a tad generous to the 21st century writers there, but otherwise agree. The guy's got an agenda.

Eliot Rosewater

John McGahern etc etc.

Myers is looking for publicity. Like many people in the media he intentionally creates controversy so people will talk about him. Hes basically trolling on a newspaper. And the sad thing is, given that Im talking about him, his tactics work.

Morlar

Sarah Woodruff wrote: »

I'd say you're being a tad generous to the 21st century writers there, but otherwise agree. The guy's got an agenda.

Whether he has an agenda or not is irrelevant he does have a point on that issue.

Putting John Banville or anne enwright (talented as they are) in the same category as Shaw, Wilde, Beckett, Synge, Joyce and O'Casey, Yeats etc is laughable. They themselves would probably agree with that.

Tristram

Meeja Ireland wrote: »

Myers is a tool.

Case closed.

Meeja Ireland

Sarah Woodruff wrote: »

I'd say you're being a tad generous to the 21st century writers there, but otherwise agree. The guy's got an agenda.

Certainly I'm erring on the side of generosity. There's even a couple of people there I don't really like, but I don't think there's a person there who is incapable of producing a generation-defining work. I didn't think much of Banville before The Book of Evidence, but I can't imagine he'll be out of print or forgotten in 2100.

As for Hugo Hamilton, buck, I know not everyone is convinced. But he is at least a serious guy. Have you read Headbanger? It's a light enough crime novel, but it's interesting and a good laugh.

Meeja Ireland

Morlar wrote: »

Putting John Banville or anne enwright (talented as they are) in the same category as Shaw, Wilde, Beckett, Synge, Joyce and O'Casey, Yeats etc is laughable. They themselves would probably agree with that.

John Banville might agree, but only because he felt Shaw, Wilde, Beckett, Synge, Joyce, Yeats and O'Casey weren't quite up to his level. He is a marvellous writer, but I don't think he is troubled much by modesty.

Myers doesn't have anything resembling a point. Even if his denigration of the modern crew was justified, he is comparing them to a group of writers everyone would acknowledge as a miraculous outpouring of talent. It's like saying modern Russia doesn't have the talent of Tolstoy, Chekhov, Dostoevsky, Gorky and Turgenev. Well, no doubt it doesn't. But so what?

Red Hand

Jennifer Johnston.

Hermy

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

John McGahern etc etc.

Myers is looking for publicity. Like many people in the media he intentionally creates controversy so people will talk about him. Hes basically trolling on a newspaper. And the sad thing is, given that Im talking about him, his tactics work.

A big plus one Eliot.

Firstly regrading McGahern - a fine, fine writer.

And secondly regarding Mr. Myers.
His controversial commentaries are becoming tiresome.

pickarooney

Myers would want to get the thumb out if he wants to be remembered 5 minutes after he's gone.

Lame Lantern

Meeja Ireland wrote: »

And Brian Friel, Seamus Heaney, Paul Muldoon, Joseph O'Connor, Eavan Boland, Tom Murphy, and take your pick of any five from Hugo Hamilton, Colm Toibin, Conor McPherson, Enda Walsh, Michael Longley, Roddy Doyle, Declan Hughes, Martin MacDonagh, Marina Carr, Brendan Kennelly, Mark O'Rowe, Padraic Fallon, Paul Durkan, Anne Enright, Edna O'Brien, Sebastian Barry....

Of the six writers mentioned from 100 years ago, Joyce had written nothing of value by 1910; Sean O'Casey was eight years away from his first play; Samuel Beckett was four.

Myers is a tool.

I thanked this post for the "Myers is a tool" comment alone.

Also, the implicit argument of "colonialism, abject poverty and cultural oppression were good because there were some decent plays on for rich people" is facedeskworthy.

Reginald P. DuM

I generally find myself agreeing with Myers, particularly when he comments on social matters. I do agree he can court controversy, but we should all be aware this is the job of the columnist. He is not principally employed by Ind N Group to educate and inform, but rather to sell papers. He is very good at his job.

Calling him a troll is just not accurate. This particular piece is just an example of how he can stretch to hyperbole, but it's not complete lunacy to suggest he is onto something. Books are wonderful, and like all cultural arenas they are open to interpretation and opinion. It's true some modern writers wouldn't be fit to fill the inkwells of GBS, O Casey or Joyce.

lanysmiles:)

it depends on what your tastes are, some people consider joyce, shaw etc to be unreadable (not my personal opinion).
I personally do not care for Myers, his opinions bore me and I find him to portray himself as a most unpleasant and rude man.
I think there are many fine writers about, and some of whom I certainly hope I can still read in 70years time and enjoy.

Denerick

Myers is like most opinion writers; they don't bother to go through the process of thinking, just lash on with declaration. Typical boring contrarian.

johnnyskeleton

Nolanger wrote: »

"And consider this. In the first decade of the 20th century, living Irish writers included Shaw, Wilde, Beckett, Synge, Joyce and O'Casey, whose works live on. We have now had 90 years of independence: what writers born in self-governing Ireland and alive today, who were raised in a literary culture created by our free universities, will be remembered at the start of the 22nd century?"
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-lack-of-rigour-among-our-academics-is-astounding-2038397.html

What a sneaky way to narrow the scope of the question - what writers that are alive today will leave a legacy as great as those already established? I don't know but I'm pretty certain that Joyce was seen as a literary pretender for most of his life and certainly was not seen as a literary great. Likewise Wilde was seen as a mere entertainer while Synge and O'Casey were hated by their contemporaries (well Synge was and O'Casey certainly fell out of favour pretty quickly).

I could just as easily see a hack london journalist in the 1590s saying which of these playwrights will be remembered in the next centry? Shakespeare, Marlowe, Johnson are all but hacks.

Or a Viennese journalist at the turn of the 19th centry decrying the popular but short lived composers of their day.

More importantly, in another 100 years people may well have forgotten all about Shaw, Beckett, Synge and O'Casey (possibly also Joyce and Wilde, but less likely IMO).

Trying to predict the works that will live on in the future is a complete mugs game. Someone jokingly referred to Ross O'Carroll Kelly, but works seen as equally crass in their day are now our greatest works of art.

Meeja Ireland

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

More importantly, in another 100 years people may well have forgotten all about Shaw, Beckett, Synge and O'Casey (possibly also Joyce and Wilde, but less likely IMO).

Great points, JS. I would add Synge into the pantheon of unforgettables, on the strength of Playboy alone, but that's a minor quibble. I also wonder if Shaw's reputation will recover from the current lull - if it is a lull, and not the early slopes of an irreversible decline.

Out of interest, are there any current writers you would bet on?

johnnyskeleton

Meeja Ireland wrote: »

Great points, JS. I would add Synge into the pantheon of unforgettables, on the strength of Playboy alone, but that's a minor quibble. I also wonder if Shaw's reputation will recover from the current lull - if it is a lull, and not the early slopes of an irreversible decline.

I don't know, I'd imagine that Synge's appeal is mostly for Irish people / Irish Americans and is more of historical note than literary merit IMO. Joyce on the other hand, love him or hate him, is known throughout the world.

Meeja Ireland wrote: »

Out of interest, are there any current writers you would bet on?

Seamus Heaney, purely because he won the nobel prize so therefore will be remembered forever. Thomas Kinsella (I thought he died 2 years ago but internet says otherwise) would be a good choice.

To be honest, I suspect that any contemporary Irish author who will still be known in 100 years time is probably some obscure writer. As much as I would like to disagree with Kevin Meyers, I suspect there is a kernel of truth in what he says in that the authors who are currently celebrated as literary greats (not just in Ireland, Ian McEwan, Paul Auster etc) are actually very pedestrian authors. This in turn makes it hard to find good contemporary authors because there is so much dross.

buck65

There is so much dross. Jesus when I walk into Hughes and Hughes or Easons these walls of brightly jacketted new releases and recommended titles that are just nonsense.

It's like the cinema nowadays , you do really have to scratch the surface to find the ocassional jewel.

It's a sad indictment of our intellect that Katie Price had 3 or 4 books in the top 10 before.

There are alot more Irish authors that I could add to the list too.

Valmont

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Hes basically trolling on a newspaper.

I had a good laugh at this one. Remember his trollesque Mothers of Bastards article back in 2004?

*Column locked, Myers infracted, please read the charter*

goose2005

He's STILL going on about ww1? Change the record Kev. And he managed several swipes at feminists, of course. Odd that he demands that universities insinuate themselves into public life, but attack those departments that dare to do so. Also, he ignores the "OUR WAR" book published last year with much academic involvement.

Also, I can't imagine that any of the classes Shaw, Wilde, Beckett, Synge, Joyce and O'Casey took at university really made them writers anyway; it's something that only really comes from life experience and solitary work: a writer is the product of the society and the self, not . Joyce took foreign languages, not literature, at UCD and barely attended lectures. O'Casey is overrated. And your forgot Colum McCann for your modern writers.

sesna

goose2005 wrote: »

He's STILL going on about ww1? Change the record Kev. And he managed several swipes at feminists, of course. Odd that he demands that universities insinuate themselves into public life, but attack those departments that dare to do so. Also, he ignores the "OUR WAR" book published last year with much academic involvement.

His "swipes" at feminists are spot on

sceptre

His "swipes" at feminists are irrelevant to the thread. This is the Literature board for anyone who hasn't noticed.

/mod

Denerick

sceptre wrote: »

His "swipes" at feminists are irrelevant to the thread. This is the Literature board for anyone who hasn't noticed.

/mod

Thats a matter of opinion.

/Concerned citizen.

Pittens

Willaim Trevor is top of his game.