What to say to someone that says ADHD doesn't exist

Byron85

This topic has come up before between myself and a friend. He argues that it's just a made up condition and that psychologists can't decide on its main characteristics. He also says children are needlessly being given stimulants, such as Ritalin and that the DSM is really just a set of vague guidelines.

I tried to counter with the fact that stimulants, such as Ritalin, are used as that's how brain chemistry works, that ADHD sufferers have a deficit in their brain's rewarding system and this has been observed in MRI scans. Of course I agreed that people are misdiagnosed sometimes but that's just the human condition. People make mistakes. I also argued that of course diet comes into play but that it is a real and legitimate condition.

I'm just wondering what else any of you would have said to him.

Odysseus

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

This topic has come up before between myself and a friend. He argues that it's just a made up condition and that psychologists can't decide on its main characteristics. He also says children are needlessly being given stimulants, such as Ritalin and that the DSM is really just a set of vague guidelines.

I tried to counter with the fact that stimulants, such as Ritalin, are used as that's how brain chemistry works, that ADHD sufferers have a deficit in their brain's rewarding system and this has been observed in MRI scans. Of course I agreed that people are misdiagnosed sometimes but that's just the human condition. People make mistakes. I also argued that of course diet comes into play but that it is a real and legitimate condition.

I'm just wondering what else any of you would have said to him.

With people like that I just let them have their opinion. If they are really anti psych fundamentalists I just hope they aren't working in a clinical or semi-clinical position. Unless they are a client of mine and suffer form that condition, I just leave them with it.

I don't know if this is the case with the person your talking about. If it's one of that cases where your dealing with "a little bit of knowledge" I pay know heed to them. I gave up years ago trying to prove myself if you get my point. With me I generally get the "but didn't they prove all Freud's theories where wrong, years ago" line. Whereas if its with a person I work with or some else who works clinically I engage in a conversion around the topic.

33% God

"[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]ADHD is a childhood neuropsychiatric syndrome that has been studied thoroughly over the past 40 years. Available diagnostic criteria for ADHD are based on extensive empirical research and, if applied appropriately, lead to the diagnosis of a syndrome with high interrater reliability, good face validity, and high predictability of course and medication responsiveness. ADHD is one of the best-researched disorders in medicine, and the overall data on its validity are far more compelling than for most mental disorders and even for many medical conditions.[/FONT]"
American Medical Association Council on Scientific Affairs (1998)

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/279/14/1100#SEC8


Say that to him. He is of course free to disagree with the AMA, but good luck finding the evidence to back it up. The debate about ADHD is not about whether or not it exists, that's well accepted by professionals at this stage.

eth0_

It definitely exists but I would imagine there is a lot of misdiagnosis. A neighbour of mine has a daughter "with ADHD" who is on Ritalin for it, yet she is never without a bottle of coke or a bag of sweets in her hand, and her mother almost boasts of her daughters ability to drink nearly 2 litres of coke in a day. No doubt she told the doctor her little darling never consumes the stuff :-)

Byron85

Thanks for the replies. He seems to think that doctors don't consider diet when it comes to treating ADHD or Depression when obviously they do or at least they should. I'm only a psychology student so my knowledge about certain areas is strictly limited, at times, so I feel cornered by him at times even though I obviously know more about the subject than him. He's read a few books and seen a few documentaries. So have I but i'm also in UCC. That doesn't seem to come into consideration however.

question123

ADHD is a chemical imbalance in the brain. ADHD hinders one’s ability to function properly, whereas one exhibits coping strategies as to treat their neurosis. To compensate, each develops his or her own strategies that developmentally add to, or subtract from the brain’s subsystems. Should her child possibly have ADHD, it’s extremely important to assess her son through a proper diagnosis. ADHD occurs, similar to a bell curve, where it hinders the child, adolescence and adult’s ability to function properly, undiagnosed and diagnosed, depending on how severe their ADHD is. The chemical imbalance refers to a person born with having a mental health problem. ADHD does exist, whereas the Americans over-diagnose and the Irish more or less interpret the disorder to be a fad. Does 3-7 percent of our population have ADHD? No, buts it’s possible. 9-21 million people in America are told they have ADHD, yet 9-21 million people have not been diagnosed with ADHD; hence, the exact figure is unknown. 1/20 is regarded as been born with a chemical imbalance in the brain, which is probably bull****. Pharmaceutical corporations advocate ADHD to the general public as to enhance profits, whereas psychiatrists, psychologists intend to over-diagnose, for financial purposes. Every child is different, whereas they meet the spectrum concerning ADHD. A spectrum interprets symptoms concerning ADHD, but it doesn’t necessarily mean they have ADHD; otherwise half the planet would have ADHD.

I have a nephew who possibly has ADHD, but it doesn’t necessarily mean he has ADHD. Where did I require knowledge concerning the topic? For 26 years, I lived with an unknown identity that hindered my ability to function properly. As a child, adolescence and an adult, I unfortunately had to endure the negative emotions that hindered my ability to function properly. Why? I was born with a chemical imbalance in the brain, labelled ADHD. I was diagnosed as having ADHD. Since I was diagnosed, I have made immense progress considering my circumstances. The chemical imbalance I inherited since birth hindered my ability to fulfil my potential, but more importantly hindered my ability to function properly. The worst mistake I ever made was refusing to see a psychiatrist in my late teens, because shrinks are associated with madness. The vicious tantrums and outbursts required serious medical help. ADHD is similar to a problem associated with inhibitions. I didn’t inhibit my impulses as well as other people because of the unknown chemical imbalance I was born with. Hence, unfortunately people had to witness a nasty side concerning my personality, because I lacked that little pause between impulse and action that allows most people to be able to speak. Fortunately, I never developed psychotic depression which a person develops through nurture rather than nature. Convicted criminals in Mount Joy prison are interpreted as having ADHD, because their symptoms are similar to ADHD, whereas I disagree, therefore every criminal in Mount Joy would have ADHD. Criminals that have committed ruthless acts of violence could have been born with a chemical imbalance in the brain, and undiagnosed as having ADHD. Hence their ADHD {nature} was undetected, whereas the people they mingled with allowed them to develop a psychotic disorder {nurture} therefore the combined both is a recipe for disaster, evidenced by their acts of violence. A teenager that murdered his victim whilst knifing him twenty times blamed his ADHD. He was diagnosed as a child, thus he received early intervention concerning his ADHD, unlike others who unfortunately had to endure the negative impact associated with undiagnosed and diagnosed ADHD. Psychotic depression, a moment of madness unfortunately left his innocent victim to bleed to death. The victims mother eventually committed suicide, thus fortunately this is a rare case associated with the label ‘’ADHD’’. Recently, I read a book concerning the ego through psychology. Our planet is flooded with people wishing to feel superior to one another. The book interprets living in the present moment, otherwise thoughts associated with the past and desires associated with the future are uncontrollable unless we are satisfied with the now. Hence, I don’t blame our health service for the unnecessary experiences I had to endure, evidenced by my late diagnosis. Fortunately, the positive experiences and the resilience I inherited prevented me from throwing in the towel, whereas others born with a chemical imbalance in the brain unfortunately didn’t develop the resources required to treat the disorder, as to enable one to function properly. Hence, this doesn’t make me superior to others diagnosed as having ADHD, whereas I feel fortunate to discover my identity aged 26, otherwise it would have been uncontrollable whilst entering my thirties. ADHD is labelled an intellectual disability, whereas I don’t perceive myself as been inferior or superior to a person without a disorder. People who have discovered me having ADHD are judgemental when their comments are accompanied with the words ‘’no you don’t. I can’t blame them though, evidenced by the title ‘’Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder’’. I’m not exactly inattentive and hyper, whereas I would have exhibited the title during childhood and adolescence whereas I matured whilst entering adulthood. During adulthood, the psychological /negative emotions associated with an undiagnosed ADHD are immense. ADHD does exist, whereas over-diagnosis in America also exists. Unfortunately, Ireland has rarely any expertise concerning ADHD. There’s a lot more to ADHD than its title. Should he believe it doesn’t exist? His opinion is an opinion and everyone is entitled to an opinion.

question123

ADHD is a chemical imbalance in the brain. ADHD hinders one’s ability to function properly, whereas one exhibits coping strategies as to treat their neurosis. To compensate, each develops his or her own strategies that developmentally add to, or subtract from the brain’s subsystems. Should her child possibly have ADHD, it’s extremely important to assess her son through a proper diagnosis. ADHD occurs, similar to a bell curve, where it hinders the child, adolescence and adult’s ability to function properly, undiagnosed and diagnosed, depending on how severe their ADHD is. The chemical imbalance refers to a person born with having a mental health problem. ADHD does exist, whereas the Americans over-diagnose and the Irish more or less interpret the disorder to be a fad. Does 3-7 percent of our population have ADHD? No, buts it’s possible. 9-21 million people in America are told they have ADHD, yet 9-21 million people have not been diagnosed with ADHD; hence, the exact figure is unknown. 1/20 is regarded as been born with a chemical imbalance in the brain, which is probably bull****. Pharmaceutical corporations advocate ADHD to the general public as to enhance profits, whereas psychiatrists, psychologists intend to over-diagnose, for financial purposes. Every child is different, whereas they meet the spectrum concerning ADHD. A spectrum interprets symptoms concerning ADHD, but it doesn’t necessarily mean they have ADHD; otherwise half the planet would have ADHD.

I have a nephew who possibly has ADHD, but it doesn’t necessarily mean he has ADHD. Where did I require knowledge concerning the topic? For 26 years, I lived with an unknown identity that hindered my ability to function properly. As a child, adolescence and an adult, I unfortunately had to endure the negative emotions that hindered my ability to function properly. Why? I was born with a chemical imbalance in the brain, labelled ADHD. I was diagnosed as having ADHD. Since I was diagnosed, I have made immense progress considering my circumstances. The chemical imbalance I inherited since birth hindered my ability to fulfil my potential, but more importantly hindered my ability to function properly. The worst mistake I ever made was refusing to see a psychiatrist in my late teens, because shrinks are associated with madness. The vicious tantrums and outbursts required serious medical help. ADHD is similar to a problem associated with inhibitions. I didn’t inhibit my impulses as well as other people because of the unknown chemical imbalance I was born with. Hence, unfortunately people had to witness a nasty side concerning my personality, because I lacked that little pause between impulse and action that allows most people to be able to speak. Fortunately, I never developed psychotic depression which a person develops through nurture rather than nature. Convicted criminals in Mount Joy prison are interpreted as having ADHD, because their symptoms are similar to ADHD, whereas I disagree, therefore every criminal in Mount Joy would have ADHD. Criminals that have committed ruthless acts of violence could have been born with a chemical imbalance in the brain, and undiagnosed as having ADHD. Hence their ADHD {nature} was undetected, whereas the people they mingled with allowed them to develop a psychotic disorder {nurture} therefore the combined both is a recipe for disaster, evidenced by their acts of violence. A teenager that murdered his victim whilst knifing him twenty times blamed his ADHD. He was diagnosed as a child, thus he received early intervention concerning his ADHD, unlike others who unfortunately had to endure the negative impact associated with undiagnosed and diagnosed ADHD. Psychotic depression, a moment of madness unfortunately left his innocent victim to bleed to death. The victims mother eventually committed suicide, thus fortunately this is a rare case associated with the label ‘’ADHD’’. Recently, I read a book concerning the ego through psychology. Our planet is flooded with people wishing to feel superior to one another. The book interprets living in the present moment, otherwise thoughts associated with the past and desires associated with the future are uncontrollable unless we are satisfied with the now. Hence, I don’t blame our health service for the unnecessary experiences I had to endure, evidenced by my late diagnosis. Fortunately, the positive experiences and the resilience I inherited prevented me from throwing in the towel, whereas others born with a chemical imbalance in the brain unfortunately didn’t develop the resources required to treat the disorder, as to enable one to function properly. Hence, this doesn’t make me superior to others diagnosed as having ADHD, whereas I feel fortunate to discover my identity aged 26, otherwise it would have been uncontrollable whilst entering my thirties. ADHD is labelled an intellectual disability, whereas I don’t perceive myself as been inferior or superior to a person without a disorder. People who have discovered me having ADHD are judgemental when their comments are accompanied with the words ‘’no you don’t. I can’t blame them though, evidenced by the title ‘’Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder’’. I’m not exactly inattentive and hyper, whereas I would have exhibited the title during childhood and adolescence whereas I matured whilst entering adulthood. During adulthood, the psychological /negative emotions associated with an undiagnosed ADHD are immense. ADHD does exist, whereas over-diagnosis in America also exists. Unfortunately, Ireland has rarely any expertise concerning ADHD. There’s a lot more to ADHD than its title. Should he believe it doesn’t exist? His opinion is an opinion and everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Torakx

eth0_ wrote: »

It definitely exists but I would imagine there is a lot of misdiagnosis. A neighbour of mine has a daughter "with ADHD" who is on Ritalin for it, yet she is never without a bottle of coke or a bag of sweets in her hand, and her mother almost boasts of her daughters ability to drink nearly 2 litres of coke in a day. No doubt she told the doctor her little darling never consumes the stuff :-)

Thats actually very sad to hear.That much sugar is poison i hope you tell that to your neighbour.
Sorry i have a sore spot for mistreated innocents and had to comment on that situation.

More ontopic,
I guess your friend has watched a documentary about ritalin and how it is being abused.That might be true as i have seen such documentaries and found them pretty convincing.
I think the solution your looking for might be a common ground.
Its possible to meet your friend halfway in that many many cases of adhd are treated with drugs when that or any naturally caused chemical imbalance is not the cause(like the bottles of coke story above).

Mild dyspraxia and aspergers i hear have similar issues as adhd and i dont know if ritalin is the treatment or not for those but id be worried if it was to be honest.
your friend could maybe meet you half way in that some of the symptoms of what is called adhd be they something else or not are relieved by ritalin.But only symptoms and i doubt causes.

My own personal possibly skewed(most likely wrong officially) thinking on adhd and other things like that is the brain has many functions that can be either supressed or undeveloped.
So aspergers,dyspraxia,adhd i think have some similar symptoms which might all be related when looking at the area of the brain used to control these things.
One thing i know is its not just some hyper kids with bad parents.
It does need to be looked at alot more carefully.
wether your friend wants to put a name to it or not im sure all cases of adhd havent been an overdose of sugar but more likely a combination of brain malfunctions if its persistent in controlled enviornments.
And surely these kinds of tests have been done.

Gibs

you could refer them to this article which was published a few years ago to deal with exactly this kind of inaccurate doubt-mongering.

boredbloggers

Develop your own personality, because the media controls your thoughts. ADHD and other mental health disorders posted on this blog are opinions developed through hearsay, hence; the media. 27000 people are registered as having an intellectual disability in Ireland, thus 1/200 is born with a neurological condition. ADHD is labelled an Intellectual disability, likewise, Aspergers, Autism, Down syndrome and others. America estimates that 1/10 people are born with a chemical imbalance in the brain. Who advocates these statistics? The pharmaceutical corporations, psychiatrists, psychologists and the authors who write books. Why? $,$,. Ireland lacks expertise concerning mental health, whereas America understands mental health. ADHD and other mental health disorders are not fads, similar to psychological theories associated with Freud and others. Diagnosis is evaluated through a specialist and the parent’s observation. Should the child be diagnosed, because the parent’s are unable to face the challenges associated with raising their children, thus then hoping medications associated with treatments of mental health disorders will be the cure? These parents should then apply for a single parent’s medication allowance :}. Children are children, thus let them be children. Genuine parents will evaluate weather or not their children were born with a chemical imbalance in the brain. America over-diagnosis for $, $. Ireland’s health services are con-artists whilst advocating expertise concerning mental health disorders.

Cons are almost certain to fail with the addition of either of the following: Economic downturn: Persistent reporting:

Bored Bloggers ignore hearsay, develop your own personality.

Valmont

boredbloggers wrote: »

Develop your own personality, because the media controls your thoughts.

I control my own thoughts. Do you have any evidence or even a sound argument to support the ridiculous assertion that the 'media controls your thoughts'?

boredbloggers wrote: »

ADHD and other mental health disorders posted on this blog are opinions developed through hearsay, hence; the media.

No, they are theories developed through rigorous and extensive experimentation.

boredbloggers wrote: »

America estimates that 1/10 people are born with a chemical imbalance in the brain. Who advocates these statistics?

I will wager that you won't produce a reliable reference for this statement.
The rest of your post made absolutely no sense so there is nothing to refute.

boredbloggers

I control my own thoughts. Do you have any evidence or even a sound argument to support the ridiculous assertion that the 'media controls your thoughts'? Eckhart Tolles ‘’A New Earth’’.

No, they are theories developed through rigorous and extensive experimentation? The bored bloggers are the bloggers who advocate ADHD as a myth. Hence, ADHD is not a myth. It’s a genuine mental health disorder.

I will wager that you won't produce a reliable reference for this statement?
America advocate that 1/20 school children are born with the disorder {ADHD}. I question this statistic. America advocate that 1/10 of their population suffers from a mental health problem. Hence, I stated a chemical imbalance in the brain referring to ADHD, thus the statement I should have posted was 1/20 referring to ADHD. Therefore you would win that wager. Hence, America does advocate that 1/10 suffer from a mental health problem. I will wager that you won't produce a reliable reference for this statement? 1/20 school children are born with ADHD. No, they are theories developed through rigorous and extensive experimentation?

The rest of your post made absolutely no sense so there is nothing to refute? Read the post once again and you will understand the creative writing that is a writer with????

looksee

Would you go and look up the meaning of the word 'advocate'?

Kevster

I have ADHD, and I'm sufficiently intelligent to recognise that the way I think and approach tasks is different from my brothers and family at large. ADHD is real. Anyone who says that it isn't obviously has never had it.

Kevin

lemonjelly

Kevster wrote: »

I have ADHD, and I'm sufficiently intelligent to recognise that the way I think and approach tasks is different from my brothers and family at large. ADHD is real. Anyone who says that it isn't obviously has never had it.

Kevin

Surely anyone with a hyperactivity disorder should not be given stimulants. Im not a doctor but...I would imagine they would be given a low dose of xanax or similar every day.

Valmont

What makes you think they would be prescribed stimulants? I thought Methylphenidate was the standard prescription for ADHD.

Odysseus

Valmont wrote: »

What makes you think they would be prescribed stimulants? I thought Methylphenidate was the standard prescription for ADHD.

It is one Valmont, it's an amphetamine like drug.

JuliusCaesar

boredbloggers wrote: »

Develop your own personality, because the media controls your thoughts. ADHD and other mental health disorders posted on this blog are opinions developed through hearsay, hence; the media. 27000 people are registered as having an intellectual disability in Ireland, thus 1/200 is born with a neurological condition. ADHD is labelled an Intellectual disability, likewise, Aspergers, Autism, Down syndrome and others. America estimates that 1/10 people are born with a chemical imbalance in the brain. Who advocates these statistics? The pharmaceutical corporations, psychiatrists, psychologists and the authors who write books. Why? $,$,. Ireland lacks expertise concerning mental health, whereas America understands mental health. ADHD and other mental health disorders are not fads, similar to psychological theories associated with Freud and others. Diagnosis is evaluated through a specialist and the parent’s observation. Should the child be diagnosed, because the parent’s are unable to face the challenges associated with raising their children, thus then hoping medications associated with treatments of mental health disorders will be the cure? These parents should then apply for a single parent’s medication allowance :}. Children are children, thus let them be children. Genuine parents will evaluate weather or not their children were born with a chemical imbalance in the brain. America over-diagnosis for $, $. Ireland’s health services are con-artists whilst advocating expertise concerning mental health disorders.

Cons are almost certain to fail with the addition of either of the following: Economic downturn: Persistent reporting:

Bored Bloggers ignore hearsay, develop your own personality.

This forum is under Science for a reason. If you want to prolulgate a theory, back it up with research.

If you are just here to put forward your own opinion, go to AH or some other discussion board. I'm a little suspicious of someone who has only 2 posts, both on the same subject.

You have been Mod warned.

Gibs

lemonjelly wrote: »

Surely anyone with a hyperactivity disorder should not be given stimulants. Im not a doctor but...I would imagine they would be given a low dose of xanax or similar every day.

Although what you are saying seems like it should make sense, it's based on the assumption that ADHD is characterised by overactive brain processes. The evidence suggests that this is not actually the case. Much of the research on the neurological correlates of ADHD has found that the overactive hyper kind of behaviour may be a result of the underactivity of areas in the brain that areresponsible for inhibiting behaviour, primarily in the frontal lobes. Taking stimulant medication "wakes up" these inhibitory cortical structures thereby enabling the brain to control the impulses to behave in ways that are unhelpful or inappropriate to the situation. That's the theory at least although the most recent results from the MTA study, the largest study of ADHD ever conducted, cast some serious doubt on some of the rationale for using psychostimulant meds.
Here is a recent follow-up of the original research that suggests that long-term outcome for children with adhd is not significantly related to the kind of treatment they get, whether psychostimulant meds, behavioural intervention or both and instead is more to do with the early symptom intensity. Fairly disappointing stuff really.

kerrbrand

boredbloggers wrote: »

Develop your own personality, because the media controls your thoughts. ADHD and other mental health disorders posted on this blog are opinions developed through hearsay, hence; the media. 27000 people are registered as having an intellectual disability in Ireland, thus 1/200 is born with a neurological condition. ADHD is labelled an Intellectual disability, likewise, Aspergers, Autism, Down syndrome and others. America estimates that 1/10 people are born with a chemical imbalance in the brain. Who advocates these statistics? The pharmaceutical corporations, psychiatrists, psychologists and the authors who write books. Why? $,$,. Ireland lacks expertise concerning mental health, whereas America understands mental health. ADHD and other mental health disorders are not fads, similar to psychological theories associated with Freud and others. Diagnosis is evaluated through a specialist and the parent’s observation. Should the child be diagnosed, because the parent’s are unable to face the challenges associated with raising their children, thus then hoping medications associated with treatments of mental health disorders will be the cure? These parents should then apply for a single parent’s medication allowance :}. Children are children, thus let them be children. Genuine parents will evaluate weather or not their children were born with a chemical imbalance in the brain. America over-diagnosis for $, $. Ireland’s health services are con-artists whilst advocating expertise concerning mental health disorders.

Cons are almost certain to fail with the addition of either of the following: Economic downturn: Persistent reporting:

Bored Bloggers ignore hearsay, develop your own personality.

At last someone with balls. Our local school - no names, suggested we put our son on Ritalin? Am I on the wrong planet? I cannot beleive that in todays society I am listening to this crap. I feel sorry for my children in that in 10 or 20 years time they are going to be subjected to more outrageous and inhuman requests. Perhaps their children will be diagnosed with some other syndrome that makes them MOVE. Will they be strapped to a chair like a Hannibal Lecter character and made to watch and listen? What happened to working with your children, working with the school? Are we all too tired to spend quality time with our family?
<link removed, p.pete>