Am I wrong to think this isn`t fair?

seanbmc · 31-01-2010 2:10pm #1

I have heard from a guy in my class that hes going to do his native language exam on top of all his other exams this year,what I thought at first that it was like any native language exam(like our english exam)

Turns out its not and its pretty much a guaranteed A1(or close enough to) for him. Hes also using the HEAR program for reduced points.

Is this fair? Or am I wrong?

Love to hear peoples opinions.

KatCookie · 31-01-2010 2:18pm

Whats unfair about him doing his native language exam? He will probably have to do some study for that too, study a novel or the likes.
If he does Irish too, then he has more work for himself.
and if he doesnt do Irish, he may need another language for college?

If he is doing the HEAR programme, i dont see how if affects on you, glad to see that he is making use of a scheme made available for people like him (unless of coure he is lying and doesnt need the HEAR programme cos he's super wealthy)

lou91 · 31-01-2010 2:21pm

No, it's completely fair, seeing as how he probably has to work harder than everyone else to do the rest of the subjects in a non-native language.

justaday · 31-01-2010 2:22pm

your wrong actually. i know a native arabic speaker who doesn't do arabic because he wouldn't do well in it.

i don't think the polish/arabic exams are like french/german/spanish.

they are more like irish

spiderpig2k7 · 31-01-2010 2:22pm

Nothing in life is "fair" but you should just concentrate on your own situation and get through the points system and stop worrying about others.

number10a · 31-01-2010 2:28pm

It is fair. Just like you can go to France or Slovakia or Greece and sit an exam in Irish or English (or any other official EU language) in their equivalent of the Leaving Cert.

This guy has moved country, had to learn English to a standard that allowed him to get by in six or seven other subjects, and is probably going to have to work a hell of a lot harder than everyone else to do well in these subjects. The Leaving Cert French, German and Spanish exams are there to (supposedly) show that you are competent in those languages. All he is doing is proving that he is competent in another language.

seanbmc · 31-01-2010 2:28pm

Well what I heard from this guy he thinks that hes going to walk in and ace the exam,virtually no study at all,thats what his brother did anyway. If what you guys said is true hes in for a shock.

Dubs · 31-01-2010 2:28pm

I can see where your coming from that his test in his language isnt nearly as hard to him as our english test is to us (we arent guaranteed an A in english where as he almost definately is in his language).

But you have to keep in mind that all of the other tests will be in a foreign language to him. Maybe he's as fluent in english as we are though but they cant just make the tests harder for one person.

--hughesy-- · 31-01-2010 2:30pm

Of course it is fair. I attend an international school and even though I am Irish, its easy to see how much non native English speakers struggle in subjects such as geography, business and ( obviously ) English. So in my opinion, why not give them a break? Just imagine you were in Germany, and yes you may be good at German but still it would be a struggle to stay on par with the rest of the native speakers. Also in the English as a foreign language class you would do great and then they would think it was unfair!...:o

ddef · 31-01-2010 2:48pm

A lad in my class is from Poland and he is doing the polish exam. He says it is hard in the fact that he can clearly understand all the polish, but the way they catch them out is by asking the question in difficult english.

ayumi · 31-01-2010 4:56pm

you see some pple who do arabic for example and its there native laguage,they might not know it well,like they speak with it but cant write an essay on it and i have friends like this that have lived here for most of there lives or born here and dont know how to write in their laguage

spurious · 31-01-2010 5:07pm

ddef wrote: »

A lad in my class is from Poland and he is doing the polish exam. He says it is hard in the fact that he can clearly understand all the polish, but the way they catch them out is by asking the question in difficult english.

The questions are in Polish on the Polish LC exam.
See: http://www.examinations.ie/archive/exampapers/2009/LC548ALP000EV.pdf (.pdf file)

The written Polish required for high marks in the LC is of quite a high standard and stylistically a good standard is expected. We don't really examine the standard of written English in English exams to the same standard anymore.

Being able to speak Polish well is not the same as being able to write it well.

pathway33 · 31-01-2010 5:19pm

spurious wrote: »

We don't really examine the standard of written English in English exams to the same standard anymore.

Does this mean an essay that would have got you a C2 20 years ago would now get you a B1?

spurious · 31-01-2010 5:45pm

pathway33 wrote: »

Does this mean an essay that would have got you a C2 20 years ago would now get you a B1?

Let's not open that can of worms.

If you ever manage to get your hands on Inter Cert. papers from the 60s and 70s, they are a real eye-opener.

gant0 · 31-01-2010 6:28pm

its pretty scab alright but i ain't complainig!!i get ta do russian for the LC even tho ive been here for most of my life and have perfect english!!!:)......oh and eastern european exams are really easy!!!nothing like honours irish english an maybe a little harder than pass french.......and people from say a country like latvia or lithuania get an almost straight up 200 points in the lc cause they get to do their native language + russian since those countries are former soviet union so every1 speaks russian anyway:).....lucky for some i suppose!!!

spurious · 31-01-2010 6:58pm

The Russian exam follows a different format as it is not an EU language and is a fairly established LC subject. It has parts that are answered in English like the other standard modern language exams.

The exams in 'new' languages are in a different format, answered without English and cannot be taken by non-native speakers. Russian can be taken by anyone who speaks or has learned Russian.

**Timbuk2** · 31-01-2010 7:25pm

It is fair. If you went to France, wouldn't you take the English exam?

Imagine how easy the tapework would be! And the oral (if they have one) would be a laugh!

NoHands · 31-01-2010 8:59pm

seanbmc wrote: »

Well what I heard from this guy he thinks that hes going to walk in and ace the exam,virtually no study at all,thats what his brother did anyway. If what you guys said is true hes in for a shock.

They are just trying to make you feel better. I walked into spanish and aced it. Hell, my oral examiner laughed at the end and was like... "I think I made more mistakes than you did...."

pathway33 · 31-01-2010 9:06pm

anyone know the french equivalent of www.examinations.ie ? be very interesting to see the bacculeurate (sp?) english exam

Lawliet · 31-01-2010 9:23pm

http://www.ibo.org/diploma/assessment/exampapers/

partyatmygaff · 31-01-2010 9:30pm

http://www.ibo.org/diploma/curriculum/examples/samplepapers/documents/gp1_englisha1hl2.pdf

Wow..... That is on a whole other level compared to the Leaving Cert. That's their Higher level.

This is ordinary level which seems to be at the same level as the HL Leaving cert paper :eek:
http://www.ibo.org/diploma/curriculum/examples/samplepapers/documents/gp2_englisha2sl2.pdf

It's hard to believe a French exam for English is harder than an Exam for english set in an English Speaking country.

seanbmc · 31-01-2010 9:33pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

http://www.ibo.org/diploma/curriculum/examples/samplepapers/documents/gp1_englisha1hl2.pdf

Wow..... That is on a whole other level compared to the Leaving Cert. That's their Higher level.

This is ordinary level which seems to be at the same level as the HL Leaving cert paper :eek:
http://www.ibo.org/diploma/curriculum/examples/samplepapers/documents/gp2_englisha2sl2.pdf

It's hard to believe a French exam for English is harder than an Exam for english set in an English Speaking country.

The french learn English from a very young age,thats probably why its harder

pathway33 · 31-01-2010 9:43pm

seanbmc wrote: »

The french learn English from a very young age,thats probably why its harder

and we don't

partyatmygaff · 31-01-2010 9:46pm

seanbmc wrote: »

The french learn English from a very young age,thats probably why its harder

Em, so did you learn only Irish throughout primary school?
:pac:

pathway33 · 31-01-2010 9:47pm

those french english exams are seriously scary. Thank God for Ireland

seanbmc · 31-01-2010 9:48pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Em, so did you learn only Irish throughout primary school?
:pac:

Whats your point? Of course I didn`t

partyatmygaff · 31-01-2010 9:57pm

seanbmc wrote: »

Whats your point? Of course I didn`t

Well you said the French learn english from a very young age trying to justify why their english exams are harder. Surely if english is our main language we would learn English from an even earlier age then the french.
Non?
:pac:

seanbmc · 31-01-2010 9:59pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Well you said the French learn english from a very young age trying to justify why their english exams are harder. Surely if english is our main language we would learn English from an even earlier age then the french.
Non?
:pac:

Their English exams are harder than what? Our English exams? Sorry for the confusion, monsieur :pac:

miss no stars · 31-01-2010 10:21pm

Is the french bac not different to the IB?

Besides, I think it's a given that the standard expected of leaving cert students is well... low.

Wait til ye all get to college and meet the erasmus students... They'll show ya what learning is!

rainbowtrout · 01-02-2010 12:07am

gant0 wrote: »

its pretty scab alright but i ain't complainig!!i get ta do russian for the LC even tho ive been here for most of my life and have perfect english!!!:)......oh and eastern european exams are really easy!!!nothing like honours irish english an maybe a little harder than pass french.......and people from say a country like latvia or lithuania get an almost straight up 200 points in the lc cause they get to do their native language + russian since those countries are former soviet union so every1 speaks russian anyway:).....lucky for some i suppose!!!

you only get to count one of your 'native' languages for points if they are not the standard languages examined in the leaving cert. so you can take polish and latvian but only count one for points

ddef · 01-02-2010 12:45am

To be frank, I get more annoyed at the advantage lads living on a farm in the Gaeltacht get.
Irish A1. Agricultural science A1. Agricultural economics A1.
That's 300 points off the bat.
I know they can't help it, but I'd be more concerned about their 300 point lead to a polish lads 100.

Am I wrong to think this isn`t fair?

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