no chance of IMF involvement?

ei.sdraob

well think again...

our friends in Greece who took the route of increased borrowing similar to the "proposals" by the trade unions here in Ireland

can now avail of IMF "help" if they wish to take it

IMF on standby to aid Greece over debt crisis
By Sarah Arnott and Sean O'Grady
Saturday, 30 January 2010

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) "stands ready" to help Greece with its debt crisis, a senior official said yesterday.

John Lipsky, the first deputy managing director of the IMF, said the fund is in "ongoing contact" with the Greek authorities following a "scoping mission" to assess the possibilities.

"The IMF stands ready to support Greece in any way we can," Mr Lipsky said. "It is a matter for the Greek authorities to decide, in collaboration with the European Union, but we are here to help if we are wanted."

The comments came against the background of Athens' borrowing costs hitting the highest levels since Greece joined the eurozone in 2001.

Greece's problems began in October, when the newly elected government discovered a deficit at 12.7 per cent of GDP, more than twice its predecessor's estimate. The country's creditworthiness was downgraded by all three major ratings agencies in December and last week the Prime Minister, George Papandreou, said the country faced an "unprecedented crisis".

Despite Athens plans to cut the deficit to below 3 per cent by the end of 2012, doubts are growing about the government's ability to get the spiralling debt under control. Next week, the European Commission will issue its own recommendations and set a deadline for dealing with the deficit, to be endorsed by EU finance ministers later in the month.

Earlier this week, investors showed unexpected appetite for Greek debt when the market responded with €25bn-worth of demand for its issue of €5bn-worth of five-year bonds, allowing the government to raise the issue to €8bn.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/imf-on-standby-to-aid-greece-over-debt-crisis-1883814.html

Flamed Diving

Oh dear, how many people said this could never happen, and that people were scaremongering?

ei.sdraob

well whether its money from EU/ECB bailout or IMF bailout or combination of both that Greece opts in for

that money will come with long strings attached, the big one being cuts in public spending

theres only so long the trade unions can continue to ignore basic maths and that the country (whether its greece or ireland) is bankrupt

so once again trade unions in Ireland should note and watch what happens in Greece, because were next on list

MaceFace

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Oh dear, how many people said this could never happen, and that people were scaremongering?

I have long said the IMF will not come into an EU country.
I stand over that.

Slugs

MaceFace wrote: »

I have long said the IMF will not come into an EU country.
I stand over that.

We can only hope, otherwise we stand to lose more then our national debt...

ei.sdraob

MaceFace wrote: »

I have long said the IMF will not come into an EU country.
I stand over that.

IMF dont burst in like some FBI agents breaking down a door

they are invited in when no one else is willing to give money to a basket-case country

if you bother to read the article you would see their main guy stating

"It is a matter for the Greek authorities to decide, in collaboration with the European Union, but we are here to help if we are wanted."

basically both IMF and EU are willing to help Greece

but

any help will come at a price and with strings attached, they will want their money back and cuts to things like public expenditure in order to balance the books

MaceFace

ei.sdraob wrote: »

IMF dont burst in like some FBI agents breaking down a door

they are invited in when no one else is willing to give money to a basket-case country

if you bother to read the article you would see their main guy stating


basically both IMF and EU are willing to help Greece

but

any help will come at a price and with strings attached, they will want their money back and cuts to things like public expenditure in order to balance the books

Hey - relax. I never said they come bursting in.
I simply said they will not come into an EU country. EU will be there first.

ei.sdraob

MaceFace wrote: »

Hey - relax. I never said they come bursting in.
I simply said they will not come into an EU country. EU will be there first.

your missing the point again

whether its EU or IMF or combination of both (as i already said in 3rd post)

ei.sdraob wrote:

well whether its money from EU/ECB bailout or IMF bailout or combination of both that Greece opts in for

that money will come with long strings attached, the big one being cuts in public spending

the aid will come with long strings attached and hence the trade unions loose


the ones in Ireland are making alot of farting noises but whatever they do they simply cant win this "battle" as the ignore the fact that the country is bankrupt, they should really take note of Greece as thats where they want the country to endup

Greece followed the path that was laid out by unions and now the country is in talks with EU and IMF about getting "bailed out" and the interest on their debt is spiraling out of control

theres a lesson in this whole Greece affair

Fat_Fingers

MaceFace wrote: »

I simply said they will not come into an EU country. EU will be there first.

Am i missing someting? IMF went into Latvia, Romania, Hungary and Poland. Sorry would you mind explaining? I'm genuinely interested.

Riskymove

Fat_Fingers wrote: »

Am i missing someting? IMF went into Latvia, Romania, Hungary and Poland. Sorry would you mind explaining? I'm genuinely interested.

I think its Eurozone countries rather than simply EU he means

MaceFace

Riskymove wrote: »

I think its Eurozone countries rather than simply EU he means

Yes - apologies for the confusion.
The speak only of Euro currency nations as if the IMF do go into a Euro nation, it will result in a dramatic loss of confidence for the currency.

ei.sdraob

MaceFace wrote: »

Yes - apologies for the confusion.
The speak only of Euro currency nations as if the IMF do go into a Euro nation, it will result in a dramatic loss of confidence for the currency.

its a bit more complicated than that, read this very interesting


1. the EUrozone countries/ECB cant just bailout a country since the Maastricht Treaty rules establishing the euro include a no bailout clause.


but
it seems there is a way for EU (all members not just EUrozone get involved, the British understandably are not happy about that) to provide,
some of the ideas include
* forwarding structural funds due to receive in next few years
* or from various national savings funds
* use provision from Lisbon treaty to help out

so far the Euro countries have said that they will stand behind Greece, but the mechanism of how that can be accomplished is not clear
and now (see opening post) the IMF said they can "help" if called upon

any sort of "help" will include reform clauses, and that wont be pretty


2. greek statistics are not to be trusted and their actions have already negatively impacted on the eurozone > http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/306556,euro-states-discuss-greek-bail-out-diplomats-say.html

/

View

ei.sdraob wrote: »

IMF dont burst in like some FBI agents breaking down a door

But it would be cool if they did!

Que: Visions of Governments being led away in handcuffs for finanical mis-management.

cleremy jarkson

I say we take help and worry about it later, yeah that idea is immediately gratifying, lets do it....

ballinatray

ei.sdraob wrote: »

well whether its money from EU/ECB bailout or IMF bailout or combination of both that Greece opts in for

that money will come with long strings attached, the big one being cuts in public spending

theres only so long the trade unions can continue to ignore basic maths and that the country (whether its greece or ireland) is bankrupt

so once again trade unions in Ireland should note and watch what happens in Greece, because were next on list

True indeed.. we are next..I aint an expert but in January 2007 figures produced showed Morgage debt to GNP ratios of Ireland at 190%.. USA at 48% and Germany at 16%...Did not see figures for Greece but it makes me wonder...Irelands Morgage debt to GNP ratios 10 times higher than Germany...Clearly the industrious germans do not see property speculationb as a vehicle to create wealth like our own Gombeen financiers in Government.....

ei.sdraob

ballinatray wrote: »

True indeed.. we are next..I aint an expert but in January 2007 figures produced showed Morgage debt to GNP ratios of Ireland at 190%.. USA at 48% and Germany at 16%...Did not see figures for Greece but it makes me wonder...Irelands Morgage debt to GNP ratios 10 times higher than Germany...Clearly the industrious germans do not see property speculationb as a vehicle to create wealth like our own Gombeen financiers in Government.....

speaking of Germans

replace the British with Irish in this article to see what they think of us

http://property.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/property/overseas/article6997021.ece