valve on immersion tank

jimmyw

There is a valve at the bottom of my immersion tank that controls how much heat is directed from the boiler into the tank to heat the water.There is another pipe going up from this valve to the small tank in the attic that feeds the radiators etc. Problem is that as we have a power shower,so that water is not taken from the tank for this and the amount of water used for washing etc is minimal so most of the water in this tank hardly ever gets used so the hot water coming out of the taps is very hot. Question is if I turn off this valve for a day or two to allow the water be used without any more heating of it, is there any danger of damage to boiler should there be any problems. In other words what is the purpose of the pipe to the attic.

Joey the lips

Your post is confusing sorry but the simple solution would be to turn down the thermostat. I am guessing you dont have one. How is your water heated. Please describe your system with a bit more detail. Thanks

jimmyw

Ok I have an oil central heating system and aswell as heating the rads the boiler is also heating the hot water in the immmersion tank in the hotpress.There is a valve at the bottom of this which is connected to the boiler and you can open or close this to control the amount of heat thats going into the tank to heat the water. There is another pipe going from this valve and going into a pipe into the tank to do the heating and one going up and turned down over the top of a small tank in the attic thats feeding the rads (overflow pipe?). If I turn off this valve to stop the heat from the boiler getting to the tank water to heat it, will it cause any harm? thanks James.

Oh the only thermostat is on the boiler.

Outkast_IRE

Well the only issue with shutting those gate valves off fully for periods of time is that they tend to sieze up if they are are a few years old , there is no problem as such with you closing that valve if you do not require any hot water in the cylinder , but to me the proper job would be a thermostat fitted to the cylinder and a motorized valve , and link the motorized valve to your heating controls so you can have the heating set to : Heating and hot water or heating only .
But for the moment you should be ok just closing the valve if your sure its only controlling the flow through the cylinder .

jimmyw

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Well the only issue with shutting those gate valves off fully for periods of time is that they tend to sieze up if they are are a few years old , there is no problem as such with you closing that valve if you do not require any hot water in the cylinder , but to me the proper job would be a thermostat fitted to the cylinder and a motorized valve , and link the motorized valve to your heating controls so you can have the heating set to : Heating and hot water or heating only .
But for the moment you should be ok just closing the valve if your sure its only controlling the flow through the cylinder .

Thanks, yeah I am looking into the motorised valve setup and heating controls at the moment and insulation in the house, but there is a slight complication with the insulation but thats another story. The boiler is not a condensed type but I believe there is another solution to the thermostat and heating controls system.thanks again.

Joey the lips

jimmyw wrote: »

Ok I have an oil central heating system and aswell as heating the rads the boiler is also heating the hot water in the immmersion tank in the hotpress.There is a valve at the bottom of this which is connected to the boiler and you can open or close this to control the amount of heat thats going into the tank to heat the water. There is another pipe going from this valve and going into a pipe into the tank to do the heating and one going up and turned down over the top of a small tank in the attic thats feeding the rads (overflow pipe?). If I turn off this valve to stop the heat from the boiler getting to the tank water to heat it, will it cause any harm? thanks James.

Oh the only thermostat is on the boiler.

I think the valve you are refering to is the balancing valve and if you turn it off your heating will not work. So no i would not turn it off. Can you take pictures.

Outkast_IRE

Joey the lips wrote: »

I think the valve you are refering to is the balancing valve and if you turn it off your heating will not work. So no i would not turn it off. Can you take pictures.

If you shut the balencing valve the heating should still work as the water will still go through the flow and returns of the radiators , In a normal set up he should be ok.

Joey the lips

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

If you shut the balencing valve the heating should still work as the water will still go through the flow and returns of the radiators , In a normal set up he should be ok.

Je suis desole...:)

items

You could turn off balancing valve to isolate coil completely (depending on how cylinder is connected) then you'd have to rely on immersion which defeats the idea. From your post you have boiler stat way to high, your heating system probably costs a fortune. Turn stat down about 10 degree, you shouldn't experience a colder house but you'll notice better hot water temp along with heating bill savings.

Its better to heat up what you can while heating is on, once cylinder is lagged well enough your not really losing out that much even though you might not use the stored hot water that much.

jimmyw

I dont know about a balancing valve, it just allows more or less heat from the boiler to reach the cylinder.Then maybe thats what it is calledThe house is not great heatwise but I am looking into adding insulation.




Red arrow is going to the tank and blue one is the feed to the rad.

items

Balancing valve should be located on bottom pipe going into side of cylinder (coil). The idea behind a balancing valve is to restrict flow to cylinder, if valve was wide open the cylinder coil could take a lot of the circulation pumps power, rads can suffer as a result. Balancing valve shouldn't be open anymore than two turns from closed. By restricting flow through coil your also slowing down circulation, this allows heat in coil to dissipate allowing the cold water inside cylinder absorb heat.

Shutting valve down to barely open will slow down the amount of time it takes to heat storage water not lessen the heat. To lessen heat your either going to have to add some cylinder control or just lower boiler stat.

jimmyw

items wrote: »

Balancing valve should be located on bottom pipe going into side of cylinder (coil). The idea behind a balancing valve is to restrict flow to cylinder, if valve was wide open the cylinder coil could take a lot of the circulation pumps power, rads can suffer as a result. Balancing valve shouldn't be open anymore than two turns from closed. By restricting flow through coil your also slowing down circulation, this allows heat in coil to dissipate allowing the cold water inside cylinder absorb heat.

Shutting valve down to barely open will slow down the amount of time it takes to heat storage water not lessen the heat. To lessen heat your either going to have to add some cylinder control or just lower boiler stat.

Yeap, but the valve is only barely on as you say but it still heats up the water pretty well. Can you close it off completely? I will have to look into putting some kind of control systems on it and the rads, cheers

items

jimmyw wrote: »

Yeap, but the valve is only barely on as you say but it still heats up the water pretty well. Can you close it off completely? I will have to look into putting some kind of control systems on it and the rads, cheers

Provided their is no pipes branched off cylinder circuit in hot press you can. It's an unusual request to be honest. If you choose to close off circulation to cylinder careful about turning off rads, don't have a case where all rads off along with cylinder and boiler on.

jimmyw

items wrote: »

Provided their is no pipes branched off cylinder circuit in hot press you can. It's an unusual request to be honest. If you choose to close off circulation to cylinder careful about turning off rads, don't have a case where all rads off along with cylinder and boiler on.

The reason I ask is stop any heat going into the cylinder. The rads would'nt be turned off anytime. As I said before the only other pipe is going up to the attic tank from this valve.

kev_rower

items wrote: »

The idea behind a balancing valve is to restrict flow to cylinder, if valve was wide open the cylinder coil could take a lot of the circulation pumps power, rads can suffer as a result. Balancing valve shouldn't be open anymore than two turns from closed.

this ads resistance to the system creating a bigger pressure drop in the system which mens a bigger pump. Ideal design would be for it to be fully open and have it pipe sized correctly for desired flow an heat transfer.

items

jimmyw wrote: »

The reason I ask is stop any heat going into the cylinder. The rads would'nt be turned off anytime. As I said before the only other pipe is going up to the attic tank from this valve.

True, I see mentioned you don't use stored hot water that much, for what its worth, if costs less to use stored hot water from heating than running an electric shower. Might be worth changing shower and fitting a manual thermostatic shower valve that way you can use stored hot water. No real maintenance issues either.

items

kev_rower wrote: »

this ads resistance to the system creating a bigger pressure drop in the system which mens a bigger pump. Ideal design would be for it to be fully open and have it pipe sized correctly for desired flow an heat transfer.

Pretty much all cylinders require some form of restriction after coil, their is cases where a cylinder will have it's own supply separate from rads, even in those cases a throttle valve should be fitted to return, without a throttle flow will just race through coil with minimal transfer of heat. Same idea goes with rads, the return not only balances it also throttles / restricts, without a valve flow would just would race through without giving off enough heat.

jimmyw

items wrote: »

True, I see mentioned you don't use stored hot water that much, for what its worth, if costs less to use stored hot water from heating than running an electric shower. Might be worth changing shower and fitting a manual thermostatic shower valve that way you can use stored hot water. No real maintenance issues either.

So you mean I would be using the water in the tank for a shower? cheers.
I would imagine your right, a shower probably uses as much as cooker only not on as long.Whats the pipe to the attic for then?

items

jimmyw wrote: »

So you mean I would be using the water in the tank for a shower? cheers.
I would imagine your right, a shower probably uses as much as cooker only not on as long.Whats the pipe to the attic for then?

That's right, depending on how high cold storage is above shower head you might even have a better flow rate @ shower than electric. That's why I found closing off cylinder coil unusual, its best to use stored hot water in cylinder as much as possible, most cases cylinder water is heated while heating to rads is on so its not costing that much extra to use cylinder water compared to elec shower.

Electric showers can draw anything from 8, 10 even 12 KW, work out how many showers taken weekly then multiply the time spent on avg during each shower by the cost of Kwh's as priced on your elec bill, you'll understand what I'm talking about, then add in the costs of shower replacement parts or complete replacement.

Pipe from attic is more than likely a cold feed into heating, supply pipe to fill heating when required.

jimmyw

jimmyw wrote: »

I dont know about a balancing valve, it just allows more or less heat from the boiler to reach the cylinder.Then maybe thats what it is calledThe house is not great heatwise but I am looking into adding insulation.




Red arrow is going to the tank and blue one is the feed to the rad.

items wrote: »

That's right, depending on how high cold storage is above shower head you might even have a better flow rate @ shower than electric. That's why I found closing off cylinder coil unusual, its best to use stored hot water in cylinder as much as possible, most cases cylinder water is heated while heating to rads is on so its not costing that much extra to use cylinder water compared to elec shower.

Electric showers can draw anything from 8, 10 even 12 KW, work out how many showers taken weekly then multiply the time spent on avg during each shower by the cost of Kwh's as priced on your elec bill, you'll understand what I'm talking about, then add in the costs of shower replacement parts or complete replacement.

Pipe from attic is more than likely a cold feed into heating, supply pipe to fill heating when required.

I can imagine your right about the cost alright. That pipe is not a feed cause as I pointed out in the pic above, the smaller diameter pipe beside it is the feed for the rads. It seems to be an overflow pipe I think that's turned down over the tank reservoir for the rads in the attic. I don't know whats its purpose exactly, cheers for the replies.