Have the Dublin 30KPH Zone removed! E-mail this councillor

zenno

Run_to_da_hills

ectoraige wrote: »

And England. And Spain. And Switzerland. And Sweden. And Germany. And France. And Belgium. And New Zealand. And Australia. Need I go on?

And yes all those countries you mentioned have a decent alternative / metro/ rail / tram infrastructure unlike Dublin which is still over dependant on busses. :rolleyes:

Martian Martin

A few things..

1. This is just the beginning, this may be rolled out to other areas in Dublin,
the Mayoress admitted this on Matt Cooper's show today - download the Podcast.

2. This is just another Anti-car measure. The Congestion charge is only around the corner - despite any politician's assurance of waiting until we have a proper Public Transport system.

3. This has not been thought threw whatsoever and Emer Costello does not even fully understand it herself. For example, when asked by Matt Cooper if this would also apply to the LUAS she advised she "was not sure" and would "have to check on it" By being utterly unprepared for the most basic questions it shows the complete lack of regard or fear for how the people will take this new Anti-car measure.

4. Keeping a car at 18mph will require people looking at the Speedometer often - this will not help road safety at all.

5. Andrew Montague advised that this measure was put in because of "all the drunk people" stumbling onto the road "with a few drinks on them"
- Ladies and Gentleman, that is quite simply THE dumbest backward bit of logic/policy I have ever heard from an Irish politician. He should be ashamed of himself for uttering such a dim-witted moronic statement of national radio.

6. **** Labour. They are supposed to represent workers. The same workers who need to use these roads without being utilised as a piggy-bank for Government revenue. I would expect this from the loons in the Green party but not Labour. They will never get my Vote again.

7. Lastly, this measure will stick and will not be repealed. Why? Because we rolled over and accepted that the Banking inquiry will be mainly behind doors, we are rolling over and accepting that 600 top level civil servants sweet talked themselves out of having to take a cut and we will roll over and accept this new Anti-Car measure. If you don't believe me ask yourself why, after everything Fianna Fial has done (or not) in the last term, has their supprting rating INCREASED!? Why? Because Irish people will bitch and moan but eventually will capitulate and vote the Party their Mammy and Daddy voted for and drive like a moron at 18mph in their capital city.

I applaud the group here who have taken the time and emailed this bufoon and I wish you the best of luck.

ectoraige

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

And yes all those countries you mentioned have a decent alternative / metro/ rail / tram infrastructure unlike Dublin which is still over dependant on busses. :rolleyes:

I wasn't attempting to make any correlation between availability of public transport and urban speed limits, I was responding to a poster who characterised the change with "only in Ireland".

I'm not really sure how you see a link between the two anyway. Are you saying that an extra two minutes on your car journey into the city centre is unacceptable because there isn't a train station outside your door?

I'll note also that in *any* public transport system, bus transport is hugely important even in cities fortunate enough to have an extensive metro system.

Run_to_da_hills

ectoraige wrote: »

I wasn't attempting to make any correlation between availability of public transport and urban speed limits, I was responding to a poster who characterised the change with "only in Ireland".

I'm not really sure how you see a link between the two anyway. Are you saying that an extra two minutes on your car journey into the city centre is unacceptable because there isn't a train station outside your door?

I'll note also that in *any* public transport system, bus transport is hugely important even in cities fortunate enough to have an extensive metro system.

This restriction is 24 hours and crawling from Mount joy Sq to Christ Church will take a lot longer than just "two minutes". You must also remember that people particularly the elderly and most women will be driving considerably slower than 30KPH fearing that they could exceed the limit.

Because the tolerance is so tight drivers will be watching their speedometers consistently instead of paying attention to the road.

ectoraige

Martian Martin wrote: »

4. Keeping a car at 18mph will require people looking at the Speedometer often - this will not help road safety at all.

To begin with, it's 30kph, not 18mph; we adopted metric speed limits five years ago.

Now, can you explain how people are able to keep a car at 50kph without looking at the Speedometer often? 100kph? 120kph?

Martian Martin wrote: »

5. Andrew Montague advised that this measure was put in because of "all the drunk people" stumbling onto the road "with a few drinks on them"
- Ladies and Gentleman, that is quite simply THE dumbest backward bit of logic/policy I have ever heard from an Irish politician. He should be ashamed of himself for uttering such a dim-witted moronic statement of national radio.

Some alternatives:

1. Seperate all roads and footpaths with high railings
2. Ban alcohol
3. Ban bars
4. Ban cars
5. Ban people
6. Disregard any duty of care towards each other

I'm sure you can think of some more helpful alternatives.

Run_to_da_hills

ectoraige wrote: »

To begin with, it's 30kph, not 18mph; we adopted metric speed limits five years ago. .

Its 18.64 MPH. :rolleyes:

MPH puts it in a more understanding prospective as a very large percentage of the driver population were brought up with it also many cars still have MPH calibrations. :rolleyes:

ectoraige wrote: »

Now, can you explain how people are able to keep a car at 50kph without looking at the Speedometer often? 100kph? 120kph?

I repeat myself again. 30kph is a ridiculous tolerance for most drivers to hold without getting frustrated.

ectoraige

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Its 18.64 MPH. :rolleyes:

MPH puts it in a more understanding prospective as a very large percentage of the driver population were brought up with it also many cars still have MPH calibrations. :rolleyes:
I repeat myself again. 30kph is a ridiculous tolerance for most drivers to hold without getting frustrated.

100% of the driver population have followed kph for five years, but whatever floats your boat.
At least there's some truth in your post - the issue isn't that some drivers are unable to drive at 30kph, it's that they are unwilling to. If you find controlling your car frustrating, I hate to think what it was like when you were learning to tie your shoelaces.

mr_happy

Nakatomi wrote: »

I really think it will make no difference to average speed in Dublin, you may get to the next queue of traffic a few seconds later but you will still be at the end of a queue of traffic. However the chances that someone will have been killed are much less.

The problem is that there is a large volume of cars trying to share the same road space with a large number of cyclists and pedestrians.

Have a review in 6 months time but is it morally acceptable to put peoples lives in danger to get to the end of the next queue a bit faster??

If it saves the life of one drunken Jay walker and brings in a good few thousand in speeding fines it will be worth it.

Im wondering just how Im going to drive at that speed, its infuriating . Just BS. The economy has slowed down so they want to bring the speed people work at down as well? How many people need to get from a to b to make a living? I cant go by Trinity at certain hours. Now when I can I have to crawl? WTF is going on.

I seriously think I will have no license in 12 months, I currently have no points, but between these anti speeding vans on the way in (money racket)
and this BS, the only ppl who are going to make money from this is the taxi drivers with fares who will gladly slow down.

Esel

Does this twat live in Marino? Most of it is 30kph as well.....

ectoraige

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

This restriction is 24 hours and crawling from Mount joy Sq to Christ Church will take a lot longer than just "two minutes".

Ye gods, you're right, if you were going between Mountjoy Square and Aungier Street say, and contrived a route that kept you within the zone by avoiding Gardiner Street, Bolton Street, Church Street, and Patrick Street, then you could cover about 3 kilometres which at 30kph would now take you 6 minutes, instead of the 3.6 minutes you it would have taken you at 50kph. So yeah, the increase would actually be 2 minutes, 24 seconds, and not just 2 minutes. I do apologise, thanks for pointing out my error, it certainly was quite significant.

pfy2k

You get what you vote for! Stupid Irish, and your Cork city is next!:D
Lucky for me I live in the six counties of ULSTER in the United Kingdom!:D

Jumpy

This thread is full of fail.

Esel

pfy2k wrote: »

Lucky for you I live in the six counties of ULSTER in the United Kingdom!:D

FYP.

ectoraige

argosy2006 wrote: »

THAT IS A FACT, THEY WOULD BE, on a clear piece of road even a jogger will be passing you out,

You have a tenous understanding of either what a fact is, or what 30kph is. World record to 1000m is about 23kph.

ectoraige

argosy2006 wrote: »

30KPH:eek: LOL X 4000-OMG+IMAFO X20=ARE YOU NUTS!
Thats pretty much impossible to drive at that speed. its 18.64mph, the old woman in her electric wheel chair on the footpath beside you would be passing you out,

Yeah, sorry again with the facts, but eh, max speed for even the fastest electric wheelchairs would be half that, most would do well to top 4mph.

ectoraige

mr_happy wrote: »

I seriously think I will have no license in 12 months, I currently have no points, but between these anti speeding vans on the way in (money racket)
and this BS, the only ppl who are going to make money from this is the taxi drivers with fares who will gladly slow down.

You could, just, you know, drive within the speed limits? Just a thought.

pfy2k

Don't worry or get annoyed about your stupid Councils 30km/h City centre speed limit. Just head north to Ulster and spend your cash and save money and forget about shopping in Dublin!:D:D:D

K-9

ectoraige wrote: »

You do know there aren't any Green Party councillors on DCC, right? That it's dominated by Labour and Fine Gael, yeah? Just checking.

:rolleyes:

Have to love it. They have no councillors but some voters will blame it on the Greens!

old_aussie

I hope all the cyclists get fined the same as motorists and lose their licence or get banned from cycling on the public roads.

30 kph, what a joke.

old_aussie

OR,

have a week of protest where drivers travel no more than 10 kph(that's legal cause it's under the 30 kph) and see how that goes down.

If 10 kph doesn't work, try 5 kph for a week.

Traumadoc

mr_happy wrote: »

If it saves the life of one drunken Jay walker and brings in a good few thousand in speeding fines it will be worth it.

Im wondering just how Im going to drive at that speed, its infuriating . Just BS. The economy has slowed down so they want to bring the speed people work at down as well? How many people need to get from a to b to make a living? I cant go by Trinity at certain hours. Now when I can I have to crawl? WTF is going on.

I seriously think I will have no license in 12 months, I currently have no points, but between these anti speeding vans on the way in (money racket)
and this BS, the only ppl who are going to make money from this is the taxi drivers with fares who will gladly slow down.

Drunken jaywalker or child out celebrating the junior cert?

Why do you need to speed??

To get to the next queue of traffic quicker?

We had the same arguments about the plastic bag tax, smoking ban, HGV ban, change to Kph, ban on unaccompanied provisional drivers, penelty points.... the list goes on.

Change is difficult, wait and see review it in 6 months.

-Chris-

pfy2k wrote: »

You get what you vote for! Stupid Irish, and your Cork city is next!:D
Lucky for me I live in the six counties of ULSTER in the United Kingdom!:D

Banned for a week for trolling.

E39MSport

old_aussie wrote: »

OR,

have a week of protest where drivers travel no more than 10 kph(that's legal cause it's under the 30 kph) and see how that goes down.

If 10 kph doesn't work, try 5 kph for a week.

That'll learn'em.

Your cars can't go at 30mph, you'll drive slower in protest etc, etc.

Come on ......

ArphaRima

A lot higher, which is why we only allow people to drive at that speed on single-direction multiple-lane motorways.

single-direction multiple-lane

The Quays???
Stephens Green?

Anyway my point here is that it is a ridiculously low limit. Its not reasonable, desirable or practical.

Irish people will bitch and moan but eventually will capitulate and vote the Party their Mammy and Daddy voted for and drive like a moron at 18mph in their capital city.

I agree with this statement but I will not be one of them. And I dont even live in Ireland anymore (albeit only for the medium term, and I commute).

I think the people here lauding this change either dont drive regularly or dont drive in Dublin city centre often.
I would also invite everyone here to actually try it. Try driving at 30kph for any distance. It is quite obviously a ridiculously low maximum speed to impose on public roads.
Its the kind of speed thats suitable only for shopping centre car parks.

Some alternatives:

1. Seperate all roads and footpaths with high railings
2. Ban alcohol
3. Ban bars
4. Ban cars
5. Ban people
6. Disregard any duty of care towards each other

I'm sure you can think of some more helpful alternatives.

Nope. None of the above. Status Quo will do me fine thank you very much. We are solving a problem that doesnt exist through a method that will frustrate the vast majority to little benefit.

-Chris-

fluffer wrote: »

I think the people here lauding this change either dont drive regularly or dont drive in Dublin city centre often.

I do and I do.

fluffer wrote: »

I would also invite everyone here to actually try it. Try driving at 30kph for any distance. It is quite obviously a ridiculously low maximum speed to impose on public roads.

I've tried it, it feels slow.

fluffer wrote: »

Its the kind of speed thats suitable only for shopping centre car parks.

It's waaaay too fast for shopping centre car parks.

Traumadoc

fluffer wrote: »

Its the kind of speed thats suitable only for shopping centre car parks.

Much of dublin city center is no more than a shopping center carpark.

LibraMan

Is it an offence (yet!) to drive on the cycle lane? Just wondering.

Traumadoc

If it is a solid white line between the cycle lane and the traffic lane -yes.

zenno

ectoraige wrote: »

I wasn't attempting to make any correlation between availability of public transport and urban speed limits, I was responding to a poster who characterised the change with "only in Ireland".

I'm not really sure how you see a link between the two anyway. Are you saying that an extra two minutes on your car journey into the city centre is unacceptable because there isn't a train station outside your door?

I'll note also that in *any* public transport system, bus transport is hugely important even in cities fortunate enough to have an extensive metro system.

this could be noel dempsey we are texting to. well hello noel any chance you can unplug your head from your a*se and fix the transport system and again only in ireland.

Run_to_da_hills

Nakatomi wrote: »

Much of Dublin city center is no more than a shopping center carpark.

Not between 9pm and 7am and parts during the day. Much of this rush hour "carpark" is a direct result of the college Green Bus corridor.

I know of several motorcycle couriers that are packing in their jobs as a result of all this combined mess. Their positions will probably be taken over by some new breed of cycle courier that will be permitted to break the 18mph speed limit and put pedestrians at risk. :rolleyes:

TomTom

Are buses going to be bound by this law also? or will it be a case of a blind eye being turned to them.

zenno

this will happen next god help us all.

Run_to_da_hills

TomTom wrote: »

Are buses going to be bound by this law also? or will it be a case of a blind eye being turned to them.

All traffic will have to abide by it including the Luas as its also a mechanical propelled vehicle. :rolleyes:

neutron

Last night members of Dublin City Council wanted to discuss the negative impact of the 30 kph zone but were over ruled by the anti- private motorist lobby. It is pathetic to see the lack of democracy in action by the anti car little Hitlers

Email the spokesperson to have the 30 kph zone removed

andrewmontague@eircom.net

and remind him how you will vote in future!

It's not only a Dublin thing either, now the rabid anti-motorist brigade in Cork want to copy Dublin and inflict a 30 kph zone on Cork motorists.

"FEARS have been expressed that shoppers will be driven out of Cork after the local authority confirmed plans to introduce a 30km/h (18.64mph) speed limit before next Christmas".

Read here
http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/30kmh-speed-limit-will-force-out-shoppers-111100.html

AugustusMinimus

20kph limit in Limerick outside of schools :eek: Is 20kph even an allowable limit in Ireland ?

Some sort of campaigns must be initiated in both Cork and Limerick to ensure similar limits are not brought in there.

This whole debacle does nothing but show the divide between our leaders and those who vote them in. How long before a genuine Irish Tuf Tuf club is setup with speed cameras being blown up etc.

Laws are generally followed when they are deemed to be reasonable and in the public interest. This particular law is neither.

ectoraige

fluffer wrote: »

ectoraige wrote:

A lot higher, which is why we only allow people to drive at that speed on single-direction multiple-lane motorways

Quote:single-direction multiple-lane
The Quays???
Stephens Green?


Anyway my point here is that it is a ridiculously low limit. Its not reasonable, desirable or practical.

You had been making the point that the risk of death if struck at 120kph is even higher, and yet we have speed limits at that speed. I was making the point these are on motorways with single-direction multiple-lane carriages. I should have also added that pedestrians and many other road users are expressly forbidden from these roads, which is not the case in the city centre.

fluffer wrote: »

Its the kind of speed thats suitable only for shopping centre car parks.

30kph in shopping centre car parks? Are you for real?

fluffer wrote: »

ectoraige wrote:

Some alternatives:

1. Seperate all roads and footpaths with high railings
2. Ban alcohol
3. Ban bars
4. Ban cars
5. Ban people
6. Disregard any duty of care towards each other

I'm sure you can think of some more helpful alternatives.

Nope. None of the above. Status Quo will do me fine thank you very much. We are solving a problem that doesnt exist through a method that will frustrate the vast majority to little benefit.

The only figures I've seen for the specific affected areas have come from Ciaran Cuffe, who reported there have been 9 deaths, 36 serious injuries, and over 400-hundred lesser injuries over the last six years in the affected area. How is that not a problem? When these schemes have been introduced in other cities, it has resulted in a drop in deaths and serious injuries of at least 50%.

zenno wrote: »

this could be noel dempsey we are texting to.

No, he's a gob****e, I'm not that bad yet... am i?

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I know of several motorcycle couriers that are packing in their jobs as a result of all this combined mess. Their positions will probably be taken over by some new breed of cycle courier that will be permitted to break the 18mph speed limit and put pedestrians at risk. :rolleyes:

Yah, you seriously expect us to believe that? For core city-centre deliveries, cycle couriers already have a massive advantage. For deliveries to, you know, the rest of the city, motor bikes are still king. You expect us to believe that several of them to have already decided to quit after a day of the scheme being in operation. Have you anything valuable to contribute?

I am stunned and appaled by selfishness and lack of consideration some posters on here have shown. For the sake of a few minutes (simple maths says the time lost along the longest route across the 30kph zone is less than 4 minutes, assuming no traffic or traffic lights, during the day with traffic it would make no difference whatsoever), people want to remove this life saving measure. I think this all stems from the manner in which cars numb their occupants to the speed at which they are actually travelling.

50 kph is fast. If you are struck by a car at 50 kph you are not getting up again. You will have shattered bones, possible ruptured abdominal or thoracic aorta, permanent brain damage. There is a 45% chance you will die. It is a dangerous speed for vehicles in a city centre.

30kph, although it seems like a crawl, is plenty fast enough to cover the types of distances encountered in city driving in good time, and is much faster than what most of the traffic can average during the day anyway.

Getting hit by a car at 30kph is more like a really, really, hard crunching rugby tackle. It will hurt like hell, and you may get injured, but most people will get up again afterwards, and only 5% die. This is because kinetic energy increase with the square of the speed. A vehicle at 50kph has almost 3 times the kinetic energy of one at 30kph. Between these two speeds lies the limit of what the human body can withstand without bones shattering.

So, if this is ever overturned, I think the opponents of this limit should be the ones that have to stand on the doorsteps of the wives/husbands/children of the people that died because they wanted to save 3.5 minutes.

Run_to_da_hills

ectoraige wrote: »

Yah, you seriously expect us to believe that?
For core city-centre deliveries, cycle couriers already have a massive advantage. For deliveries to, you know, the rest of the city, motor bikes are still king. You expect us to believe that several of them to have already decided to quit after a day of the scheme being in operation. Have you anything valuable to contribute?

Motorcyclists in particularly will have difficulty having to crawl all day throug traffic, many bikes are not designed for this including my own bike.

Yes van delivers will be next, I suggest all courier companies and Taxi drivers charge a nuisance fee to all dublin city businesses for the hassle of having to crawling through our capital.

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Yes van delivers will be next, I suggest all courier companies and Taxi drivers charge a nuisance surcharge for the hassle of crawling through our capital.

Why haven't they been doing that all along then? Seeing as the average speed in rush hour traffic is 11kph.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I am stunned and appaled by selfishness and lack of consideration some posters on here have shown. For the sake of a few minutes (simple maths says the time lost along the longest route across the 30kph zone is less than 4 minutes, assuming no traffic or traffic lights, during the day with traffic it would make no difference whatsoever), people want to remove this life saving measure. I think this all stems from the manner in which cars numb their occupants to the speed at which they are actually travelling.

50 kph is fast. If you are struck by a car at 50 kph you are not getting up again. You will have shattered bones, possible ruptured abdominal or thoracic aorta, permanent brain damage. There is a 45% chance you will die. It is a dangerous speed for vehicles in a city centre.

30kph, although it seems like a crawl, is plenty fast enough to cover the types of distances encountered in city driving in good time, and is much faster than what most of the traffic can average during the day anyway.

Getting hit by a car at 30kph is more like a really, really, hard crunching rugby tackle. It will hurt like hell, and you may get injured, but most people will get up again afterwards, and only 5% die. This is because kinetic energy increase with the square of the speed. A vehicle at 50kph has almost 3 times the kinetic energy of one at 30kph. Between these two speeds lies the limit of what the human body can withstand without bones shattering.

So, if this is ever overturned, I think the opponents of this limit should be the ones that have to stand on the doorsteps of the wives/husbands/children of the people that died because they wanted to save 3.5 minutes.

Thats right and if nobody leaves their house then nobody will die on the roads
THATS THE SPIRIT!

LibraMan

If we could get this thread back on topic, below is a copy of a mail I sent to Andrew Monague, copied to my local Labour Party senator and presumed candidate in the next Dáil election:

Dear Counsellor Montague,

I had to write to say thank you for the latest Banana Republic absurdity, promoted by you in Dublin City Council. I was a member of the Labour Party in Wexford town but my membership lapsed when I moved to Ashbourne, Co. Meath and started a family. I have recently been thinking of rejoining the party and getting active in advance of the next elections, as a Labour seat in the Meath East Dáil constituency is long overdue.

However, as a worker who has to commute into Dublin city centre and home again every day, regularly at off peak hours, I am at my wits end that I now am forced to drive at a ludicrous 18.65mph through virtually deserted evening streets. This is yet another example of the boot being put into the working man, as it is clearly ideologically motivated and nothing to do with road safety.

I have copied Senator Hannigan on this mail as I feel he is entitled to know that your initiative has cost him what would have been an enthusiastic campaigner in Meath East. I have been a socialist all my life but I am utterly disillusioned with the Labour Party now as it fails to represent real working people, already struggling with a deteriorating quality of life.

LostinBlanch

Nice one Libraman, I'd cc Gilmore as well.

I have no idea of the parties that all who voted this through are in but I see FF are already starting to spin this as purely a FG / Labour thing. This is going to turn into a PR nightmare for FG / Labour if they're not careful and something that could allow FF to sneak back in.

Talk about an own goal on so many levels.

seamus

old_aussie wrote: »

I hope all the cyclists get fined the same as motorists and lose their licence or get banned from cycling on the public roads.

30 kph, what a joke.

LibraMan wrote: »

Is it an offence (yet!) to drive on the cycle lane? Just wondering.

What's the new limit got to do with cyclists?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats right and if nobody leaves their house then nobody will die on the roads
THATS THE SPIRIT!

Where did I say that? But ya obviously it's true, but life would be boring then. 30 kph allows people to get where they're going while keeping the risk to others at an acceptable level, it's called a compromise.

ArphaRima

The only figures I've seen for the specific affected areas have come from Ciaran Cuffe, who reported there have been 9 deaths, 36 serious injuries, and over 400-hundred lesser injuries over the last six years in the affected area. How is that not a problem? When these schemes have been introduced in other cities, it has resulted in a drop in deaths and serious injuries of at least 50%.

9 deaths and 36 injuries over 6 years. 1.5 deaths average per year, 6 injuries.
That means that a death on these roads is a freak occurrence. Not a problem requiring draconian legislation.

This will inconvenience millions of people taking journeys into the future. 30kph is relatively difficult to maintain.
It's the kind of thing that people think is alright until they try it, fail and get prosecuted for it.

Right now we have the Gardai implementing the checks as a launch crackdown. Wait until the private companies get in. They will put cameras every 20 metres. I know I would.

I would like to see this fought, reversed and the people responsible held to account by their voters.

JamesL85. We strive to obtain and maintain a utopian universe where everything it made of bubblewrap and nobody ever gets hurt.
We're not there yet though. To be alive means you risk death. Risk assessment and threat management are where we look to see the benefits of changing how we do things. This is not how we should do it. The benefit isnt there.

This is a cheap political stunt.

Wont someone Pleeeeaase think of the Children!!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWS

LostinBlanch

Deleted User wrote: »

I am stunned and appaled by selfishness and lack of consideration some posters on here have shown. For the sake of a few minutes (simple maths says the time lost along the longest route across the 30kph zone is less than 4 minutes, assuming no traffic or traffic lights, during the day with traffic it would make no difference whatsoever), people want to remove this life saving measure. I think this all stems from the manner in which cars numb their occupants to the speed at which they are actually travelling.

50 kph is fast. If you are struck by a car at 50 kph you are not getting up again. You will have shattered bones, possible ruptured abdominal or thoracic aorta, permanent brain damage. There is a 45% chance you will die. It is a dangerous speed for vehicles in a city centre.

30kph, although it seems like a crawl, is plenty fast enough to cover the types of distances encountered in city driving in good time, and is much faster than what most of the traffic can average during the day anyway.

Edit: And why is cyclist from Cork so excercised about a campaign to remove a speed limit in Dublin?

Getting hit by a car at 30kph is more like a really, really, hard crunching rugby tackle. It will hurt like hell, and you may get injured, but most people will get up again afterwards, and only 5% die. This is because kinetic energy increase with the square of the speed. A vehicle at 50kph has almost 3 times the kinetic energy of one at 30kph. Between these two speeds lies the limit of what the human body can withstand without bones shattering.

So, if this is ever overturned, I think the opponents of this limit should be the ones that have to stand on the doorsteps of the wives/husbands/children of the people that died because they wanted to save 3.5 minutes.

James, after reading this post I wonder what your views on bikes travelling at speeds of up to 80 kph? Surely if someone is travelling at that speed the chances of them causing serious injury to pedestrians are increased.

Edit: and why is a cyclist from Cork so excercised about a campaign to remove speed limits in Dublin?

LostinBlanch

LostinBlanch wrote: »

James, after reading this post I wonder what your views on bikes travelling at speeds of up to 80 kph? Surely if someone is travelling at that speed the chances of them causing serious injury to pedestrians are increased.

How many cyclists do you see in Dublin doing 80kph? Unless it's Mark Cavendish out for a spin or something.

ectoraige

fluffer wrote: »

9 deaths and 36 injuries over 6 years. 1.5 deaths average per year, 6 injuries.
That means that a death on these roads is a freak occurrence. Not a problem requiring draconian legislation.

So the emergency services being called out at least once every two months is a "freak occurence"? So how more often should people be dying and injured to turn it into a problem, that is worth a two-minute inconvenience from your day? 1 per week? 2 per month? How about we save you one minute by increasing the limit to 60, in exchange for one casualty a month, is that a good trade-off?

I don't think people realise how serious "serious injuries" are when they are reported in statistics. We're not talking about a broken wrist here, more like crushed faces, shattered pelvis, broken spine. I've seen it and it aint pretty.