72 Previous Convictions!!!

Kermit.de.frog

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Soft touch works reasonably well, the US model is a huge failure. Why are you advocating a failed system replace a 'pretty bad' one. Surely the answer is a working system?

Criminals fear the police and prison in the US.

That'd be a start i'd say.

A working system has to contain fear for perpetrators. By all means give them help in there but make sure prison is not an "it i'll do" option for them.

That's what we have at the moment.

Samuel T. Cogley

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Criminals fear the police and prison in the US.

That'd be a start i'd say.

A working system has to contain fear for perpetrators. By all means give them help in there but make sure prison is not an "it i'll do" option for them.

That's what we have at the moment.

They clearly don't or if they do it doesn't help to reduce crime. The US has slightly higher crime rates than Ireland and more recidivism at a massively increased cost to the tax payer.

Whats needed is a working system.

72 Previous Convictions? At a certain point people should just be locked up for life.

Grayson

Pyr0 wrote: »

Well you are still selling illegal drugs and refuse to stop after being caught twice before doing it and quite clealy aware of the situation if you're caught a third time. It'd be your own fault, no one elses.

It's literally anything though not just dealing. There's a guy doing a 20 year sentence in the US because he had a bong. having drug paraphernalia is enough to go to jail in the US. hell, it doesn't even have to be a drug offence.

So because he has a bong, the government pay for him to go to prison for 20 years. That cost isn't worth it. And he loses 20 years of his life for having a bong. that's not fair either.

It's not going to "rehabilitate" him.

It's not going to protect society because the guy isn't a danger.

It's completely pointless unless you're a vengeful twat that wants to see someone suffer.


Edit: just saw this is a really old thread. So please ignore everything.

cursai

If you round it off he only has 50.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Deleted User wrote: »

72 Previous Convictions? At a certain point people should just be locked up for life.

But they had a tough upbringing and are genuinely trying to turn their lives around...also they haven't been caught doing anything since the last time they were in trouble judge.

Guy:Incognito

Deterrent or not, who cares. Give proper sentences and at least people are spared their criminality for the length of said sentence.

Odhinn

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What's the answer then because soft touch has not worked in this country?

So cleary a harder line is needed. Where is that line for you?

If your loved one was beaten to death by a thug with so many convictions I guarantee you as sure as night follows day that your attitude would change in short order.

So tell us what needs to be done?

We don't have a "soft touch" policy.

The american way is far harsher, and doesn't work.

davo2001

Odhinn wrote: »

We don't have a "soft touch" policy.

We absolutely do.

How can someone whom had 72 previous convictions (and bare in mind this was 7 years ago so he is probably over 100 now) still be walking the streets?!

There has to be a time where enough is enough.

At this stage, any politician who wants to take a tough stance on crime and follow through on it will have my vote. It is beyond a joke now.

Odhinn

davo2001 wrote: »

We absolutely do.

.

No, we don't. Nobody is willing to spend the money required. Hence we have a system something like Britain.

dd972

The defendant comes across as someone who's loafed around in a one horse town all their lives, there's probably quite a few of these characters in the Midlands, I've heard similar stuff about places like Athy and Athlone. There might have been less of these people back in the days when there were industrial schools followed by a one way ticket to Sasana.

sbsquarepants

techdiver wrote: »

In the US he would have been down for life a long time ago. We need a three strike rule introduced in Ireland.

I often wondered how the US was such a crime free utopia. 3 strikes you say, it's genius!

rustynutz

Id say the 3 strike rule should definitely apply to any kind of violent crime, assault, rape, aggravated burglary etc. Lock em up for life if they haven't learned their lesson after 2 convictions. And something like anything over 10 convictions for lesser crimes.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Crazy how crime has risen over the past decades.

What we know as gangland/organised crime today didn't exist in Ireland 50 years.

Richard Hillman

Odhinn wrote: »

We don't have a "soft touch" policy.

The american way is far harsher, and doesn't work.

The Americans have a conveyer belt of criminals, We have the same people, commiting the same crimes over and over again. If we went for the U.S system, the streets would be cleaned up in a year or two.

dd972

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Crazy how crime has risen over the past decades.

What we know as gangland/organised crime today didn't exist in Ireland 50 years.

Probably due to drugs not being as prevalent, in 60's Ireland there might have been a bit of wacky baccy around if one know where to get it, societal reasons as well, whilst there's always been poverty, which was probably worse back then, there wasn't the permanent underclass of now, people generally emigrated, worked the farm or got a job for life via their family links to the Civil Service, Guinness or CIE.

professore

dd972 wrote: »

Probably due to drugs not being as prevalent, in 60's Ireland there might have been a bit of wacky baccy around if one know where to get it, societal reasons as well, whilst there's always been poverty, which was probably worse back then, there wasn't the permanent underclass of now, people generally emigrated, worked the farm or got a job for life via their family links to the Civil Service, Guinness or CIE.

There WAS a permanent underclass. Difference was they had to work 60+ hours a week of backbreaking manual work to stay alive for a pittance in wages. Just talk to anyone over 70 from a working class background and ask them what their youth was like.

fyfe79

davo2001 wrote: »

How can someone whom had 72 previous convictions (and bare in mind this was 7 years ago so he is probably over 100 now) still be walking the streets?!

There has to be a time where enough is enough.

At this stage, any politician who wants to take a tough stance on crime and follow through on it will have my vote. It is beyond a joke now.

Well, he had 72 previous convictions when sentenced to 10 years for manslaughter in 2010. So that was conviction number 73. He was released last year. Conviction no. 74 is now under way as he, along with his son, were caught following an aggravated burglary at the weekend. He'll be going down for serious time again.

http://www.thejournal.ie/aggravated-burglary-3758995-Dec2017/

http://www.nationalist.ie/news/home/287809/two-men-duebeforecourt-this-morning-charged-in-relation-to-anaggravated-burglary-in-clonmel.html

Odhinn

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The Americans have a conveyer belt of criminals, We have the same people, commiting the same crimes over and over again. If we went for the U.S system, the streets would be cleaned up in a year or two.

The US has a higher rate of crime than here, with a large section of society locked up. The scandanavian model is the way to go.

the dark phantom

dd972 wrote: »

The defendant comes across as someone who's loafed around in a one horse town all their lives, there's probably quite a few of these characters in the Midlands, I've heard similar stuff about places like Athy and Athlone. There might have been less of these people back in the days when there were industrial schools followed by a one way ticket to Sasana.

Yes, The town is his life but he is amongst the top criminals in that town since the early 90's and to lots of the younger generation of heads he is somewhat an iconic figure.
But he is no fool either he caught the law by the balls regarding the activation of suspended sentences. Have a look on the courts.ie site and read the judgement.
Have a read of these too..
https://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0312/73972-clonmel/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/garda%C3%AD-arrest-two-over-clonmel-shooting-1.996546

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/two-held-over-clonmel-shooting-1.953597

http://tippfm.com/news/shots-fired-house-clonmel/

The victims in the burglary would normally have been extremely close to Devine.

quintana76

Keep it up young man. Make it 100 nay 200. Keep the money flowing for the legal profession. The public interest, what public interest?

Kermit.de.frog

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

They clearly don't or if they do it doesn't help to reduce crime. The US has slightly higher crime rates than Ireland and more recidivism at a massively increased cost to the tax payer.

Whats needed is a working system.

Ok.

Let me ask you about the young lad (21 I believe) driving in Monaghan who was murdered a couple of years back after stopping for a hitch hiker with multiple convictions.

Do you know what happened to that guy?

Let me tell you.

He was on the ground after being thrown down and hit with a brick over the head again and again and again and again (I think it was almost 50 times in the end). That person who done that was on bail and suppose to sign on at a Garda station in Dundalk. He had numerous convictions.

Now I ask you - is it worth it for your liberal view? What do you think most sensible people think?

Because it angers me and the silent majority I can assure you.

And our so called justice system is disgusting. It's not justice.

These people prey on others with your backup defending their "human rights".

s7ryf3925pivug

Japan has a low crime rate, so I looked up what their system is like. Corrupt and brutal apparently.

https://qz.com/693437/japans-notoriously-ruthless-criminal-justice-system-is-getting-a-face-lift/

Surprised that they don't even have a jury system. I think the USA let almost anyone be tried by jury. In Ireland juries are actually relatively uncommon outside severe crimes. Juries greatly reduce the potential for corruption... But hey, my simplistic research indicates corruption actually has a preventative effect on crime 😆

Samuel T. Cogley

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Ok.

Let me ask you about the young lad (21 I believe) driving in Monaghan who was murdered a couple of years back after stopping for a hitch hiker with multiple convictions.

Do you know what happened to that guy?

Let me tell you.

He was on the ground after being thrown down and hit with a brick over the head again and again and again and again (I think it was almost 50 times in the end). That person who done that was on bail and suppose to sign on at a Garda station in Dundalk. He had numerous convictions.

Now I ask you - is it worth it for your liberal view? What do you think most sensible people think?

Because it angers me and the silent majority I can assure you.

And our so called justice system is disgusting. It's not justice.

These people prey on others with your backup defending their "human rights".

So you're still saying you'd prefer the above to happen over a working system? Plenty of violent murders in the US.

Kermit.de.frog

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

So you're still saying you'd prefer the above to happen over a working system? Plenty of violent murders in the US.

Should the guy who committed that murder have been put a way for life before it? Answer the question.

Samuel T. Cogley

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Should the guy who committed that murder have been put a way for life before it? Answer the question.

Anyone who has committed a murder is on a life tariff.

Kermit.de.frog

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Anyone who has committed a murder is on a life tariff.

That's not what I asked you. I asked you should that murderer with multiple convictions have been locked up beforehand.

It's a simple yes or no.

Samuel T. Cogley

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

That's not what I asked you. I asked you should that murderer with multiple convictions have been locked up beforehand.

It's a simple yes or no.

It's not a simple yes or no. It as all criminal cases do turns on it's own set of facts. Should there have been a proper rehabilitation scheme in place and should he have been kept in until he was deemed not to be a danger any more? Probably.

Kermit.de.frog

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

It's not a simple yes or no. It as all criminal cases do turns on it's own set of facts. Should there have been a proper rehabilitation scheme in place and should he have been kept in until he was deemed not to be a danger any more? Probably.

I just told you that this poor young man was hit over the head on the ground with a brick over and over and over and over and over again.

He was not in jail - he was on bail, multiple convictions let loose.

Now I am asking you for the final time whether he should have been locked up.

Well?

Samuel T. Cogley

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I just told you that this poor young man was hit over the head on the ground with a brick over and over and over and over and over again.

He was not in jail - he was on bail, multiple convictions let loose.

Now I am asking you for the final time whether he should have been locked up.

Well?

You have my answer above. These things need to be dealt with properly from the start. Thats usually petty crime way back in a persons life.