72 Previous Convictions!!!

Franz Von Peppercorn

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Nope, but Norway also has recidivism, however it's lower as they do more rehabilitation in their prisons. It's not the only way to do it the Japanese have a harsh prison system that works for them, with shortish sentences though. Locking people up and throwing away the key isn't an option purely on cost grounds, that said I'm all for a prison system that keeps people in until they are risk assessed to no longer pose a threat.

Sentencing should be taken out of the hands of Judges and handed over to the prison system itself. The way we approach sentencing is completely arseways and stuck in the 17th century. The crime committed should have little bearing on time served. Someone who shoplifts might need 3 years, someone who murders the rapist of their teenage daughter might need a few weeks - it's highly unlikely they'd find themselves in that situation again but some assessment needs to be carried out.

It would never happen as it's simply too costly to do so.

That’s not going to fly. Despite what some claim the justice system is about deterrence and punishment. Not just rehabilitation.

A pure rehabilitation system would release a drunken driver who killed quite a few people provided he gave up his licence. He can’t do it again can he? Or a serial rapist who agrees to chemical castration. Released immediately.

On the flip side your shoplifter may not convince the shrinks he is reformed and be in for life.

And rehabilitation could have serious implications for political crimes. In some European countries there are laws against hate. Which is fine, I suppose.

However imagine someone arrested for anti Islamic speech. Imagine he refuses to recant. He is also in for life.

Back to Devine. He’s killed someone and got < 8 years. He is now brought in for aggravated burgulary. What’s the penalty for not being actually rehabilitated?

old_aussie

techdiver wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0201/cumminsj.html

In the US he would have been down for life a long time ago. We need a three strike rule introduced in Ireland.

One day boardsies detest everything US and the next day they want to be just like the US.

Make your Feckin minds up!

techdiver

old_aussie wrote: »

One day boardsies detest everything US and the next day they want to be just like the US.

Make your Feckin minds up!

You do realise you can like certain things about a country and dislike other. It's not like supporting a football team it's more nuanced than that.

I would like to clarify my point above though. I would not like an identical system to the US, whereby someone can go down for life for something small like shoplifting, but in the scenario where we have people in society who are beyond redemption and/or rehabilitation we need to protect the rest of society from these scum.

I firmly believe in second chances and the prison system should definitely focus more on rehabilitation, like the kind in Norway, but we also need to accept that some people are beyond reforming and the wider society needs to be protected from them.

Pawwed Rig

old_aussie wrote: »

One day boardsies detest everything US and the next day they want to be just like the US.

Make your Feckin minds up!

boardsies are not a hive mind.

Grab All Association

Lobotomies would probably work for people like this.

erica74

I think we can all agree that things need to change but who is going to bring these changes in and what are the changes going to be? I don't have faith in any politician currently in power to make changes to the judicial system. From what I can see, it runs on keeping their mates in jobs.

I agree with posts talking about rehabilitation. I understand it's very frustrating to be the victim of a crime (I've been there unfortunately) and hear people talking about "rehabilitation" but it would be a big step towards changing the attitudes and actions of prisoners. And maybe also integrating Norway's system of extending sentences indefinitely, would be a good option.
As it is, what our prison system currently does, really doesn't work and it is not respected or feared.

Wanderer78

erica74 wrote:

I agree with posts talking about rehabilitation. I understand it's very frustrating to be the victim of a crime (I've been there unfortunately) and hear people talking about "rehabilitation" but it would be a big step towards changing the attitudes and actions of prisoners. And maybe also integrating Norway's system of extending sentences indefinitely, would be a good option. As it is, what our prison system currently does, really doesn't work and it is not respected or feared.

Unfortunately many in society wish to effectively punish people who commit crimes, which is understandable, I've been a victim of crimes also, but this is where we re going wrong. Most if not all committers of crimes have a set of complex issues and needs, of which we have decided to largely ignore, and in fact in many cases we have exasperated their issues by labeling them as such and therefore treating them as such. I would suggest talking to people that have highly complex issues that can cause behavioural issues such as impulsivity, this would be common in mental health issues such as bipolar, borderline personality disorders, various forms of autism such as adhd etc, some criminals would have these issues. I suspect your idea of 'fear' will not work with rehabilitating these kind of issues, in fact I suspect it would exasperate them.

na1

knipex wrote: »

In cases of multiple repeat convictions they should never get out.

BTW, the so called 'life sentence' in ROI is reviewed after 7 years, and currently lasts 22 years on average, according to statistics.
(it was only 7.5 years 30 years ago)

na1

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'm wondering would helping people with complex issues such as mental health problems, behavioural problems, personality disorders, learning disabilities etc etc, at an early stage, be any benefit in these situations!

I know the best treatment for scumbags with such mental issues: electric chair

knipex

na1 wrote: »

BTW, the so called 'life sentence' in ROI is reviewed after 7 years, and currently lasts 22 years on average, according to statistics.
(it was only 7.5 years 30 years ago)

I am aware of that, its a problem

To quote my origonal post in full

knipex wrote: »

In cases of multiple repeat convictions they should never get out.

They have shown they will not be rehabilitated and proven they are a risk and a danger to society. Any attempt to release them again is simply releasing an unacceptable, avoidable risk into society.

Its not about punishment, at this point is no longer about rehabilitation its about protecting society..

I would 100% agree that first offenders or even those with convictions for minor crimes should not be receiving long sentences and real attempt should be made at rehabilitation, they should be kept away from long term repeat offenders.

Society should give them a chance and indeed I believe an obligation to do so but once that chance if thrown back in society's face then all obligations end..

At at some point we have to accept that rehabilitation is never going to happen, at that point its not even about punishment but about protecting society..