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Disability facilities question

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  • 01-02-2010 3:41pm
    #1
    appleseed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭


    Is there a legal requirement for a business / company to have a disabled toilet available? My wifes company recently shut up (locked) their disabled toilet and marked it as "out of order". This is because it was being used quite a bit (by able bodied persons) and management felt there was nobody "disabled" working in her building anyway, so shut it off. Either to avoid cleaning it, or to avoid time wasters using it too much?


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    #2
    SerialComplaint
    Registered Users Posts: 2,644 ✭✭✭SerialComplaint


    There is no explicit requirement in law to have a disabled loo. The Part M building regs require a disabled loo to be built in all new buildings where any loo is provided. There is no explicit requirement to keep it open, mind you. A disabled customer or employee could take a case to the Equality Tribunal claiming discrimination under the Equal Status Acts, though this is a fairly long drawn out process.

    It is bad practice to assume there 'there is no-one with a disability' working in the building. Not all disabilities are obvious and visible.


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    #3
    appleseed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭appleseed


    SerialComplaint wrote: »
    It is bad practice to assume there 'there is no-one with a disability' working in the building. Not all disabilities are obvious and visible.

    That's exactly how I felt about it. there are 100s of reasons someone may need to use that bathroom that are not obvious disabilities. I would tell her to raise it with her HR office, although I fear she would be discriminated against then, so will advise her to say nothing about it.


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    #4
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    appleseed wrote: »
    That's exactly how I felt about it. there are 100s of reasons someone may need to use that bathroom that are not obvious disabilities. I would tell her to raise it with her HR office, although I fear she would be discriminated against then, so will advise her to say nothing about it.

    why would she be discriminated against for raising this with her HR department?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #5
    cathy01
    Registered Users Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭cathy01


    I hate they way the doors are always locked in the likes of mc donald.If I need to bring my duaghter to the loo, I would have to go and look for a key.Having to ask is embarressing.Its wrong, but I dont know about illegal??


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    #6
    SparrowTown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 202 ✭✭SparrowTown


    appleseed wrote: »
    That's exactly how I felt about it. there are 100s of reasons someone may need to use that bathroom that are not obvious disabilities. I would tell her to raise it with her HR office, although I fear she would be discriminated against then, so will advise her to say nothing about it.
    then she would have a case for victimisation as well


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    #7
    SparrowTown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 202 ✭✭SparrowTown


    cathy01 wrote: »
    I hate they way the doors are always locked in the likes of mc donald.If I need to bring my duaghter to the loo, I would have to go and look for a key.Having to ask is embarressing.Its wrong, but I dont know about illegal??
    i thought there was a change made to that but cannot find anyting about it?


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    #8
    cathy01
    Registered Users Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭cathy01


    It would be good to know.
    Thanks ,Cathy


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    #9
    SerialComplaint
    Registered Users Posts: 2,644 ✭✭✭SerialComplaint


    SparrowTown wrote: »
    then she would have a case for victimisation as well

    I don't think there is any explicit legislation about locking of toilets. It could possibly be a discrimination issue for the Equality Tribunal, but obviously this would take a good while to progress. I guess McDonalds are concerned about security, but these security issues apply to all bathrooms. Having CCTV in bathroom lobbies (but not inside of course) can be a major deterrent. I read that some schools in the UK have moved to glass-walled bathrooms to stop bullying. Pupils can still go into cubicles in privacy, but all sink areas etc are open to view.

    It might be worth talking to McDs in the first instance, and/or get some of the disability representative organisations to get onto them. I heard that the McDs in the Square in Tallaght had done good work on disability/accessibility, so it might be worth checking out how they work, and seeing if your local McDs might get onto Tallaght.


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    #10
    SparrowTown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 202 ✭✭SparrowTown


    SerialComplaint wrote: »
    I don't think there is any explicit legislation about locking of toilets. It could possibly be a discrimination issue for the Equality Tribunal, but obviously this would take a good while to progress. I guess McDonalds are concerned about security, but these security issues apply to all bathrooms. Having CCTV in bathroom lobbies (but not inside of course) can be a major deterrent. I read that some schools in the UK have moved to glass-walled bathrooms to stop bullying. Pupils can still go into cubicles in privacy, but all sink areas etc are open to view.

    It might be worth talking to McDs in the first instance, and/or get some of the disability representative organisations to get onto them. I heard that the McDs in the Square in Tallaght had done good work on disability/accessibility, so it might be worth checking out how they work, and seeing if your local McDs might get onto Tallaght.
    When I wrote
    then she would have a case for victimisation as well
    I meant that if she suffered as a result of raising it with the HR office then if a complaint of discrimination was made a complaint of victimisation could be added or even possibly made on its own. A person cannot be further discriminated against for taking a complaint to equality tribunal and cannot be victimised for raising a relevant point.

    If a person is disabled there may be a case for reasonable accommodation in keeping the toilet open if the person cannot use the other toilet without great difficulty. The equality authority give advice on the legislation and have an 1890 number see it on the website
    There is no explicit requirement in law to have a disabled loo.
    you sure?

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/outrage-over-pubs-bogus-disabled-toilet-186504.html

    "Under Part M of the building regulations, any bar which is built after 1991 or which has carried out renovation work must provide toilets for disabled people"

    Not sure if "after 1991" this applies to workplaces


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    #11
    SerialComplaint
    Registered Users Posts: 2,644 ✭✭✭SerialComplaint


    SparrowTown wrote: »

    you sure?

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/outrage-over-pubs-bogus-disabled-toilet-186504.html

    "Under Part M of the building regulations, any bar which is built after 1991 or which has carried out renovation work must provide toilets for disabled people"

    Not sure if "after 1991" this applies to workplaces

    Yep, I'm sure. Building regs apply to new buildings, but are not retrospective. There is a requirement for buildings operated by public bodies to comply with Part M regs by 2015.


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    #12
    SparrowTown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 202 ✭✭SparrowTown


    SerialComplaint wrote: »
    Yep, I'm sure. Building regs apply to new buildings, but are not retrospective. There is a requirement for buildings operated by public bodies to comply with Part M regs by 2015.
    Does that mean that public buildings/workplaces and supermarkets that do have disabled loos don't have to by law? Supermarkets do have to have ordinary toilets don't they under planning laws? How come Aldi/Lidl don't? Are thye not considered supermarkets?


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    #13
    plon
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭plon


    cathy01 wrote: »
    I hate they way the doors are always locked in the likes of mc donald

    Just a view on this... i know its annoying having to go looking for a key ... also at the Square in Tallaght and St Stephens Green shopping centre by the way where the disabled loos are always locked, but at least the toilet will be clean and usable
    Dirty toilets are a nightmare for wheelchair users.

    At my place of work the disabled toilets are available for all. The subject was discussed at an equality and diversity seminar and all agreed that they should not be locked and available for all.
    But for me the annoying thing is having to queue for the toilet when at least a dozen other toilets are vacant but which I cant get into. If equality was anyway meaningful then all toilets would be accessible.

    Disabled toilets which are kept locked also tend to be kept cleaner than ordinary toilets and for me that alone justifies keeping them locked.


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    #14
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    cathy01 wrote: »
    I hate they way the doors are always locked in the likes of mc donald.If I need to bring my duaghter to the loo, I would have to go and look for a key.Having to ask is embarressing.Its wrong, but I dont know about illegal??
    i would see having to ask for a key as discriminatory.
    SparrowTown wrote: »
    Does that mean that public buildings/workplaces and supermarkets that do have disabled loos don't have to by law? Supermarkets do have to have ordinary toilets don't they under planning laws? How come Aldi/Lidl don't? Are thye not considered supermarkets?
    supermarkets do not have to have public toilets but i would imagine that shopping centres would have toilet facilities in their planning conditions


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