The cheek of IAVI

Slideshowbob

So IAVI suggested that half ghost estates be demolished to help property prices.

Seems wasteful to me.

They have some cheek - weren't they the ones who overvalued property a few years ago

Some experts they are!!

SkepticOne

Especially when property is still overvalued by most measures.

stepbar

Newstalk had a good piece today about the whole empty houses suitation. The reporter went to a place called Newtowngore in Co.Leitrim. Seriously, you should try to listen to the piece if you can. It was on during the Sean Moncrieff show. Basically, this place has an oversupply of houses that will never be sold. It's sad really, for such a nice little village.

jdivision

Slideshowbob wrote: »

They have some cheek - weren't they the ones who overvalued property a few years ago

Some experts they are!!

not sticking up for auctioneers, but a house is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. those who bought (including me) were the mugs.

Cookie_Monster

jdivision wrote: »

not sticking up for auctioneers, but a house is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. those who bought (including me) were the mugs.

exactly (about the house bit anyway )

There is no justification for knocking brand new houses unless they are not up to spec. Its just another example of the wastefullness of this country.

Auction them off or use them for something, anything. Housing people on the housing list, give entire estates over to Hatian refugees, move all the e-voting machines into them to store on the cheap.

D3PO

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

There is no justification for knocking brand new houses unless they are not up to spec. .

Thats not exactly true. If the oversupply is so bad that a house wont be sold for a long period of time and is unoccupied and unmanaged it will fall into disrepair, the cost of then bringing it back up to spec, or the cost of maintaining a property into responable condition in conjuntion with falling property prices may means its may be more economical to knock down and rezone the land.

Now clearly this wont be the case everywhere but theres certain areas of the country where oversupply is so bad that this is probably the more financially viable option.

Slideshowbob

jdivision wrote: »

not sticking up for auctioneers, but a house is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. those who bought (including me) were the mugs.

IAVI members are professionals. They are supposed to be valuers - know the market etc. In hindsight, they should have had more of a long term economic view than merely saying Joe Bloggs got same price down the road. Where does their experise come into it?

What does their professional indemnity cover anyway in this regard?

They are getting away lightly. Some of them will get nice fees out of NAMA.

D3PO

Slideshowbob wrote: »

IAVI members are professionals. They are supposed to be valuers - know the market etc. In hindsight, they should have had more of a long term economic view than merely saying Joe Bloggs got same price down the road. Where does their experise come into it?

What does their professional indemnity cover anyway in this regard?

They are getting away lightly. Some of them will get nice fees out of NAMA.

Firstly let me say I think EA's are the scum of the earth but that said Id have a different view on things than you and ahve to defend them here.

I would say they valued the property correctly during the bubble. If they value a house at 450k and it sells for 450k then that is a correct valuation, putting a valuation on a property doesnt consist of reading economic data into the equation its purely based on what the market is would bear at that time.

Do you really think anything else would be practicle ? I mean if in 2006 an EA told somebody selling that their house that it was worth 250k despite the house next door being sold for 400k what do you think would happen ? They would be out of business thats what.

The government, banks & local councils have to take joint responsibility for the property situation. You cant blame somebody who is employed to get the best price possible for a client in doing so.

I mean whats next solicitors should only advise their clients to claim X amount in compensation claims because in their professional opinion thats what its worth despite the fact they might get more ? Thats not how the commercialised world works Im afraid.

eightyfish

Slideshowbob wrote: »

IAVI members are professionals. They are supposed to be valuers - know the market etc. In hindsight, they should have had more of a long term economic view than merely saying Joe Bloggs got same price down the road.

It's a seller's job to get the highest price they can from the buyer.

Slideshowbob

D3PO wrote: »

Do you really think anything else would be practicle ? I mean if in 2006 an EA told somebody selling that their house that it was worth 250k despite the house next door being sold for 400k what do you think would happen ? They would be out of business thats what.

Well if EA's were doing a better job (as they will from here-on I'd say with a different market dynamic), in the above scenario, 5 years earlier they migh have said that house ain't worth 200k, it's worth 195k - and market would not have gone mad.

Anyway, apart from EAs representing their clients selling, there are also (more importantly) the valuers who had to confirm to the bank the value of the property independently for a sale to go through.

markpb

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Auction them off or use them for something, anything. Housing people on the housing list

This is why the ex-president of the IAVI suggested demolishing them. Moving people on housing lists out of Dublin and into Leitrim will do nothing for their chances of settling in and getting work. It will create the ghettos of the future.

eightyfish

markpb wrote: »

It will create the ghettos of the future.

That's a good point. Self-contained satellite estates of the unfortunate people who would have to be housed in such places because they can't afford normal rent. No real connection to the rest of the city, little transport or facilities. It'd be a nightmare.

jmayo

stepbar wrote: »

Newstalk had a good piece today about the whole empty houses suitation. The reporter went to a place called Newtowngore in Co.Leitrim. Seriously, you should try to listen to the piece if you can. It was on during the Sean Moncrieff show. Basically, this place has an oversupply of houses that will never be sold. It's sad really, for such a nice little village.

Check out the likes of Dromod (Leitrim) right on the old N4 to Sligo.
Nice lovely Section 23 housing estates, two of them AFAIK.
One even had a marina on the Shannon.
Who the hell is going to live there ?
It is half way between Longford and Carrick on Shannon, both with good supply of housing.

I know someone that built housing estate in Knock, Co. Mayo.
He informed me that supposedly the houses were aimed at workers that were going to be decentralised to something or other in Tubbercurry, Co. Sligo about 25 miles up the N17 FFS.
That was how lunatic the situation was.

There were villages in Roscommon and Leitrim whose house numbers trippled or quadruppled over 5 year period thanks to Section23 grants.
Who the f*** was going to live in them and what were they meant to do for a living ?

But lest anyone thinks it is only small villages in the West, there are plenty of unoccupied hosues and ghost estates in the Dublin commutter belt. :rolleyes:

D3PO

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Well if EA's were doing a better job (as they will from here-on I'd say with a different market dynamic), in the above scenario, 5 years earlier they migh have said that house ain't worth 200k, it's worth 195k - and market would not have gone mad.

Anyway, apart from EAs representing their clients selling, there are also (more importantly) the valuers who had to confirm to the bank the value of the property independently for a sale to go through.

If you think an EA telling somebody the hosue is worth 5k less and you think that would have prevented the market going mad then your not giving dues to Section 23, wreckless lending, people camping overnight to get property etc etc

As for EA's valuing properties for the bank thats not true as far as Im aware. Now I stand corrected but the valuation would be provided as part of the survey you would have to have done on the house. The surveyer is not a member of the IAVI.

Slideshowbob

D3PO wrote: »

If you think an EA telling somebody the hosue is worth 5k less and you think that would have prevented the market going mad then your not giving dues to Section 23, wreckless lending, people camping overnight to get property etc etc

As for EA's valuing properties for the bank thats not true as far as Im aware. Now I stand corrected but the valuation would be provided as part of the survey you would have to have done on the house. The surveyer is not a member of the IAVI.

For a mortgage doesnt another valuer have to verify the value?

Surveyors wouldn't value the property as part of their survey!

Of course the Sec 23 affected things too. The government, regulators and banks didnt do their jobs.

IAVI members are not innocent though.

D3PO

Slideshowbob wrote: »

For a mortgage doesnt another valuer have to verify the value?

Surveyors wouldn't value the property as part of their survey!

Of course the Sec 23 affected things too. The government, regulators and banks didnt do their jobs.

IAVI members are not innocent though.

Not true my valuation was done by my surveyor for the bank. Im not saying IAVI members are innocent and I hate EA's anyway but I dont think you can blame somebody for getting the best price possible for their members

Cookie_Monster

markpb wrote: »

This is why the ex-president of the IAVI suggested demolishing them. Moving people on housing lists out of Dublin and into Leitrim will do nothing for their chances of settling in and getting work. It will create the ghettos of the future.

So there are some suitable areas and some unsuitable ones. Use the suitable one and find something else for the unsuitable ones. Wall off those middle of nowhere estates and use them as minimum security prisons or holding points for all the illegal immigrants. Use them as HSE villages for the elderly. Convert some into urban environment training grounds for the military. Seal them up properly so threat in 5/10 years they will still be in a suitable condition for use.

Yes these proposals all require money and may only be practical on a very small scale but surely demolition should only be looked at once every other possible use, no matter how odd, is thought of.

Himselfe

Slideshowbob wrote: »

So IAVI suggested that half ghost estates be demolished to help property prices.

What do they mean by 'help property prices'? Do they mean have them go back up to completely ridiculous and pie in the sky levels again?

Have we learned nothing?

I think the only way to 'help' property prices is to let them come down to sane levels again, which seems to be happening. The likes of the IAVI have forgotten what they are supposed to be here for in the first place, and that is to put a value on property, not try to encourage increases in those prices and screw people again.

Out of interest, why do some people think reduced property prices would be such a bad thing for Ireland anyway?

Cookie_Monster

Himselfe wrote: »

What do they mean by 'help property prices'? Do they mean have them go back up to completely ridiculous and pie in the sky levels again?

Have we learned nothing?

I think the only way to 'help' property prices is to let them come down to sane levels again, which seems to be happening. The likes of the IAVI have forgotten what they are supposed to be here for in the first place, and that is to put a value on property, not try to encourage increases in those prices and screw people again.

Out of interest, why do some people think reduced property prices would be such a bad thing for Ireland anyway?

+1 my definition of "help property prices" would be lowering them, dramatically at that.

eightyfish

Himselfe wrote: »

What do they mean by 'help property prices'? Do they mean have them go back up to completely ridiculous and pie in the sky levels again?

That's not what they actually said, that's the OP's take. I looked up the article in the Sunday Rag:

"We have a huge national demand of people who need housing from a social perspective, and yet that housing might be in locations where it's not required. Is it fair to ship people out to that location just because there happens to be an empty house there?

"I haven't heard any viable proposals about what to do other than to potentially knock down some of these developments."

So she actually said that demolition might be the only alternative in some cases, notthat this will "help property prices". I believe the OP misquoted this woman.

TwoShedsJackson

jmayo wrote: »

Check out the likes of Dromod (Leitrim) right on the old N4 to Sligo.
Nice lovely Section 23 housing estates, two of them AFAIK.
One even had a marina on the Shannon.
Who the hell is going to live there ?
It is half way between Longford and Carrick on Shannon, both with good supply of housing.

I know someone that built housing estate in Knock, Co. Mayo.
He informed me that supposedly the houses were aimed at workers that were going to be decentralised to something or other in Tubbercurry, Co. Sligo about 25 miles up the N17 FFS.
That was how lunatic the situation was.

There were villages in Roscommon and Leitrim whose house numbers trippled or quadruppled over 5 year period thanks to Section23 grants.
Who the f*** was going to live in them and what were they meant to do for a living ?

But lest anyone thinks it is only small villages in the West, there are plenty of unoccupied hosues and ghost estates in the Dublin commutter belt. :rolleyes:

I'd far sooner live in Dromod then Longford, Longford is a kip.

jmayo

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

I'd far sooner live in Dromod then Longford, Longford is a kip.

Not arguing with that, but AFAIK two section 23 estates were built in Dromod.
Now granted it is on Shannon and not bad little village but it is a nice drive to Carrick or to Longford.
Neither would be huge cosmopolitan centres and already had big supply of new houses so why add so many new houses to nice quiet village 10-15 miles away ?
BTW watch out for speedtraps on road to Carrick :mad:

stepbar

D3PO wrote: »

Thats not exactly true. If the oversupply is so bad that a house wont be sold for a long period of time and is unoccupied and unmanaged it will fall into disrepair, the cost of then bringing it back up to spec, or the cost of maintaining a property into responable condition in conjuntion with falling property prices may means its may be more economical to knock down and rezone the land.

Now clearly this wont be the case everywhere but theres certain areas of the country where oversupply is so bad that this is probably the more financially viable option.

They could always dole out the houses like the old land commission did years ago...... I wouldn't mind a house down home (leitrim) for nothing. I certainly wouldn't buy one.

stepbar

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

So there are some suitable areas and some unsuitable ones. Use the suitable one and find something else for the unsuitable ones. Wall off those middle of nowhere estates and use them as minimum security prisons or holding points for all the illegal immigrants. Use them as HSE villages for the elderly. Convert some into urban environment training grounds for the military. Seal them up properly so threat in 5/10 years they will still be in a suitable condition for use.

Yes these proposals all require money and may only be practical on a very small scale but surely demolition should only be looked at once every other possible use, no matter how odd, is thought of.

Those ideas have a lot of merit and would perhaps cost less than demolition. However, you have to remember it cost money to upkeep these places as well.

D3PO

stepbar wrote: »

They could always dole out the houses like the old land commission did years ago...... I wouldn't mind a house down home (leitrim) for nothing. I certainly wouldn't buy one.

could you imagine the uproar if something like that were to happen.