Robbie Keane - A Theory

Diddler82

Hi guys, mainly a reader of this forum as opposed to a poster but just something I was thinking about this today.

Redknapp has always been an admirer of Defoe and I think because he seen himself and Keane as 2 very similar players and it being World Cup year I think he wants to make sure Defoe goes to the world cup and Keane was seen as the main obstacle to Defoe, so now I think he has no excuses and if Defoe's form dips during the next few months he will still be regarded as untouchable with 3 strikers there who are now obviously not as good as him.

Sorry if you dont think this deserves its own thread but Im a bit annoyed over the whole thing!!

Drummerboy2

The fact of the matter is that Robbie has not really played consistently well for Spurs since his return from Liverpool. Defoe on the other hand has rediscovered his scoring boots, plus he is younger than Keane and a player who has been close to Redknapp since his days at West Ham.

I reckon Robbie will end up having a great second-half of the season in a very sub standard SPL. He will then be in a position to play for a number of midtable to lower PL teams, such as Wolves, Birmingham ect.

Xavi6

Why would you be annoyed? Keane has been poor this season while Defoe has scored goals. No brainer imo and no conspiracy theory required.

markesmith

As a Spurs fan, I don't think we should have taken Robbie back - should have let Benitez stew. He's not been the same since his return.

Defoe's been a bit anonymous the past few games, and he's more an out-and-out finisher than Robbie. Gudjohnssen's a more similar player to Keane.

I'm glad to see he's gone to Celtic, would have hated for him to come back and bite us with Sunderland or West Ham. Good luck to him, but it was time for him to move on.

Now if we can only get rid of Jenas...

mike65

800 years!

Boggles

The_B_Man

What are the chances he'll emulate his namesake, win the SPL title then retire and go into sub-standard managing??

Also, what are the chances he'll come back next season and sign for Wolves and finish his career where he started off?? :eek:

mike65

If Wolves manage to stay up that may not be such a mad notion.

abouttobebanned

Robbie Keane couldn't manage a Christmas Party, nevermind a football team.

Xavi6

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Robbie Keane coulen't manage a Christmas Party, nevermind a football team.

But he brought them to Coppers and is therefore a no frills, gets the job done even if it isn't pretty kinda guy.

Definite management material

MayoForSam

Could be he wants to keep Claudia as far away as possible from John Terry .

Ush1

Xavi6 wrote: »

But he brought them to Coppers and is therefore a no frills, gets the job done even if it isn't pretty kinda guy.

Definite management material

If by getting the job done is bringing them to a tractor convention on Harcourt Court.

TonyD79

Xavi6 wrote: »

But he brought them to Coppers and is therefore a no frills, gets the job done even if it isn't pretty kinda guy.

Definite management material

Ehh it was supposed to be a secret xmas party. Going to Ireland is one thing but going to Coppers aswell is like taking a front page advert out in the Irish Sun!

Ardent

I'd say we're seeing the tail end of Robbie's top flight career now.

His managers can obviously see something on the training pitch every day - sold after just 6 months at Liverpool and again after just 12 months from his return to Spurs.

Chardee MacDennis

markesmith wrote: »

As a Spurs fan, I don't think we should have taken Robbie back - should have let Benitez stew. He's not been the same since his return.

Defoe's been a bit anonymous the past few games, and he's more an out-and-out finisher than Robbie. Gudjohnssen's a more similar player to Keane.

I'm glad to see he's gone to Celtic, would have hated for him to come back and bite us with Sunderland or West Ham. Good luck to him, but it was time for him to move on.

Now if we can only get rid of Jenas...

i think you'll find he has not been the same since he joined Liverpool...

Xavi6

Xavi6 wrote: »

But he brought them to Coppers......

Hence the real reason behind the signing of Gudjohnson. Keane brings all the lads to Coppers, 'Arry Redknapp plays it down in the mejia, month and a half later he brings in another striker, effectively forcing Keane out?

Off to the CT forum with me....

blinding

markesmith wrote: »

Now if we can only get rid of Jenas...

As I skimmed through I read that as "Jesus"

And even I thought that was a bit extreme for a football thread.

daithijjj

TonyD79 wrote: »

Ehh it was supposed to be a secret xmas party. Going to Ireland is one thing but going to Coppers aswell is like taking a front page advert out in the Irish Sun!

I looked after a xmas party for coventry city when robbie was playing for them in 99/00. I didnt know it was them until near the end of the night as they were all in fancy dress. They only travelled up the road to birmingham aswell and had only beaten villa a few weeks earlier. Cant believe robbie never suggested the went out in fancy dress. :pac::pac:

Incidentally, they were a great bunch, the keeper magnus hedman was off his face drunk and tipped very well. (for a uni student at the time anyway:))

GuanYin

With no disrespect meant, I'm not entirely convinced that the EPL reserves are of a lower standards than the SPL. If his decision was a footballing one, it doesn't make much sense, fight for your place or stay in the EPL.

I sincerely doubt, given your options, that his Ireland place was under any threat because of lack of games.

On the other hand, I'm not quite sure I understand any of Spurs transfers in the window... Redknapp is imo terrible in the transfer market.

SlickRic

there is no theory.

he's not good enough to play week in week out at a top-6 club anymore.

he's good enough for Celtic.

end of.

Iago

SlickRic wrote: »

there is no theory.

he was never good enough to play week in week out at a top-6 club.

he's good enough for Celtic.

end of.

FYP

Defoe > Keane.

Simple as. I don't think there'd be any other reason for him leaving. They haven't played well and Defoe is first choice, I don't think he'll break into the first team.

As for the world cup comment, BULL****! 'Arry doesn't cae about the National team when his players are involved, memories of Ledley King spring to mind.

Boggles

Tis a good move for everyone involved IMO.

Keane is much better off up North playing twice a week than he is sitting on the bench in London.

Keep fit, get his head together and move on.

Just look at his replacement, Gudjohnsen, spent 6 months not doing much in France and got a good move to Spurs/

Tis not the end of Robbies career by any means.

I wouldn't be sure of him starting every game up in Scotland considering they already have 3 other good quality strikers in their ranks.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't be sure of him starting every game up in Scotland considering they already have 3 other good quality strikers in their ranks.

Their top scorer has what 9 or 10 goals?

I'd imagine Robbie will raise the bar and even joining at this stage will probably become top scorer by the summer.

Warper

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't be sure of him starting every game up in Scotland considering they already have 3 other good quality strikers in their ranks.

Keane will definitely be their No. 1 striker - there is no doubt about that. Anyone know if he is playing tonight - will be interesting to see how he gets on. Will bring a bit more interest to Celtic too and I wish him the best.

Eirebear

SlickRic wrote: »

he's not good enough to play week in week out at a top-6 club anymore.

Well that explains why he flopped at Liverpool, but what about Spurs?

therecklessone

Diddler82 wrote: »

Redknapp has always been an admirer of Defoe and I think because he seen himself and Keane as 2 very similar players and it being World Cup year I think he wants to make sure Defoe goes to the world cup and Keane was seen as the main obstacle to Defoe, so now I think he has no excuses and if Defoe's form dips during the next few months he will still be regarded as untouchable with 3 strikers there who are now obviously not as good as him.

A couple of pertinent facts:

1. Keane lost his place to Peter Crouch, not Jermain Defoe.

2. Unless he has a monkey on Defoe to score in 90 minutes for England's opener at South Africa, then Redknapp has fúck all interest in the make up of the England squad...'Arry cares about one person above all else...'Arry.

3. Keane has been moved on because he cannot find form again while on the bench, and his performances since November have been woeful therefore there is no excuse to persevere with him until he finds his touch again. By shipping him out now on loan he ges a chance to shine, and attract a few suitors for the summer window.

GuanYin wrote: »

With no disrespect meant, I'm not entirely convinced that the EPL reserves are of a lower standards than the SPL.

He wouldn't get reserve team football at Spurs, we don't have a reserve team...

GuanYin wrote: »

On the other hand, I'm not quite sure I understand any of Spurs transfers in the window... Redknapp is imo terrible in the transfer market.

Other than letting both of our RB cover options go out, I'm not sure the window has been all that bad...Redknapp was told to bring money in before buying, no decent offers were received so he went back to Pompey for CB cover in a deal that wrote off existing debt owed by them to us, and brought in Gudjohnsen as a player who would be willing to operate as 3rd choice while offloading Keane with a view towards selling him in the Summer (see above)

Redknapp's record in the transfer market while at Spurs is pretty good IMO. Which players would you have a problem with?

Defoe
Crouch
Palacios
Kranjcar
Cudicini
Bassong
Chimbonda
Keane

The last two are the only question marks IMO, Chimbonda was bought as cover and sold on at no loss, and Keane was bought at a crucial time with Defoe having broken his foot, weighed in with a few important goals and helped provide a lift with us still fighting relegation.

therecklessone

Eirebear wrote: »

Well that explains why he flopped at Liverpool, but what about Spurs?

Ho ho ho...

Eirebear

therecklessone wrote: »

Ho ho ho...

Sorry dude i mean no offence, but lets be honest here. Spurs have finished in the top 6 what...twice since the premierships inception?

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Eirebear

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Aye...but surely Spurs reserves would be a higher standard of football than the SPL. (If they existed of course) :pac::pac:

Rekop dog

MayoForSam wrote: »

Could be he wants to keep Claudia as far away as possible from John Terry .

LOL I wonder if Glasgow is far enough.

I just think he wants to win something in his career and Celtic is prob his best chance of this. We saw how crazy he went when he won the Carling Cup with Spurs, I wonder how mad he'd go if he won something relatively important.

eagle eye

therecklessone wrote: »

A couple of pertinent facts:

3. Keane has been moved on because he cannot find form again while on the bench, and his performances since November have been woeful therefore there is no excuse to persevere with him until he finds his touch again. By shipping him out now on loan he ges a chance to shine, and attract a few suitors for the summer window.

He has only started four league games since November as far as I'm aware. I don't think its fair to assess his form over four starts. I think people are jumping quickly to the conclusion that he hasn't been playing well when he hasn't really been given many opportunities.

I personally think he has been singled out over the Christmas party by Redknapp.

therecklessone

Eirebear wrote: »

Sorry dude i mean no offence, but lets be honest here. Spurs have finished in the top 6 what...twice since the premierships inception?

What have the mid 90s got to do with Keane's time at the club though?

He managed two 5th placed finishes and was in a team in the top 4 this season, what clubs would you describe as consistent top 6 outside of the obvious 4?

eagle eye wrote: »

He has only started four league games since November as far as I'm aware. I don't think its fair to assess his form over four starts. I think people are jumping quickly to the conclusion that he hasn't been playing well when he hasn't really been given many opportunities.

I personally think he has been singled out over the Christmas party by Redknapp.

He was dropped in early November after the 2-0 win over Sunderland.

He started the 26 league games before that stretching back to his first appearance after re-signing. Any start he was given after the drop he was poor, including the cup games, and that's not accounting for his poor form before the drop.

He was given fair chance.

Eirebear

therecklessone wrote: »

He managed two 5th placed finishes and was in a team in the top 4 this season, what clubs would you describe as consistent top 6 outside of the obvious 4?

None, i think the idea of a "top 6 club" is an imaginary factor of "The Best league in The World" used to make fans of mid-table teams feel better about themselves in a league they have no chance of winning.

Its much like the mythical "Third force" in Scotland.

therecklessone

Eirebear wrote: »

None, i think the idea of a "top 6 club" is an imaginary factor of "The Best league in The World" used to make fans of mid-table teams feel better about themselves in a league they have no chance of winning.

Its much like the mythical "Third force" in Scotland.

Ah grand, so you had no point, just wanted to get a dig in.

Get ya.

Next!

eagle eye

therecklessone wrote: »

He was dropped in early November after the 2-0 win over Sunderland.

He started the 26 league games before that stretching back to his first appearance after re-signing. Any start he was given after the drop he was poor, including the cup games, and that's not accounting for his poor form before the drop.

He was given fair chance.

So he scores the goal to put them in front, they win and he gets dropped?

Eirebear

therecklessone wrote: »

Ah grand, so you had no point, just wanted to get a dig in.

Get ya.

Next!

Yeah, i spend my entire time wondering about how to get digs in at Spurs, honestly. :pac:

Its a simple fact. There really is no such thing as a "top six" team from season to season.
So why do people harp on about them?

I understand the top 4, as theyve been pretty much a solid factor for a long time. There hasnt been a solid top six.

therecklessone

eagle eye wrote: »

So he scores the goal to put them in front, they win and he gets dropped?

26 starts, then he gets rotated and we win 9-1. In fairness, if Defoe hadn't been suspended for his red card against Pompey Keane would have been benched before that, the goal vs Sunderland was only the 3rd game in 12 he'd scored in the league this season.

Bit hard to tinker with the team after that, so Redknapp plays Defoe/Crouch in the next two and we draw both, away to Villa and Everton.

Comes back in for Wolves, plays sh1t and we lose.

Despite all that, Crouch got his chance because Keane's overall performances were poor for a good while. From the games I've seen, he had one good game in the league, when he ran riot vs Burnley, but they were shocking so that is hardly something to write home about.

GuanYin

therecklessone wrote: »

Other than letting both of our RB cover options go out, I'm not sure the window has been all that bad...Redknapp was told to bring money in before buying, no decent offers were received so he went back to Pompey for CB cover in a deal that wrote off existing debt owed by them to us, and brought in Gudjohnsen as a player who would be willing to operate as 3rd choice while offloading Keane with a view towards selling him in the Summer (see above)

Redknapp's record in the transfer market while at Spurs is pretty good IMO. Which players would you have a problem with?

Defoe
Crouch
Palacios
Kranjcar
Cudicini
Bassong
Chimbonda
Keane

The last two are the only question marks IMO, Chimbonda was bought as cover and sold on at no loss, and Keane was bought at a crucial time with Defoe having broken his foot, weighed in with a few important goals and helped provide a lift with us still fighting relegation.

I was mostly referring to his outgoing deals than incoming and I was referring to Redknapp's transfer history in general (including pre-Spurs) but from that list, I agree with you about Chimbonda, I've always said (here) that Keane is over-rated, although I think he played better for you guys than in any other team he's been with.

I'm not a fan of Palacios. Because he's Honduran, I've seen him play quite a few times and I don't think he's EPL standard, he fades out of games and is inconsistent at best.

Likewise, Crouch is a target player that doesn't (imo) play well as a target player, I don't think he's a good header of the ball (is that the right expression?) although he does hold it up well. His nationality gets him more headlines than he deserves.

Bassong was a good buy though, I quite like him.

Guy:Incognito

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Some footballer sjust wants to earn money.

Not saying thats what Keane is at, just pointing out that theres quite a few who would gladly do without the inconvenience of actually havign to play or train if they could just pick up the cheque.

eagle eye

therecklessone wrote: »

26 starts, then he gets rotated and we win 9-1. In fairness, if Defoe hadn't been suspended for his red card against Pompey Keane would have been benched before that, the goal vs Sunderland was only the 3rd game in 12 he'd scored in the league this season.

Bit hard to tinker with the team after that, so Redknapp plays Defoe/Crouch in the next two and we draw both, away to Villa and Everton.

Comes back in for Wolves, plays sh1t and we lose.

Despite all that, Crouch got his chance because Keane's overall performances were poor for a good while. From the games I've seen, he had one good game in the league, when he ran riot vs Burnley, but they were shocking so that is hardly something to write home about.

Are you putting the loss to Wolves on Keane?

And if so, how do you then explain the fact that Tottenham have a better record when Keane starts than when Crouch starts this season?

therecklessone

eagle eye wrote: »

Are you putting the loss to Wolves on Keane?

No, but he played sh1t and we failed to score.

eagle eye wrote: »

And if so, how do you then explain the fact that Tottenham have a better record when Keane starts than when Crouch starts this season?

On league games only, the Crouch/Defoe partnership has started 9 times and we have only failed to score once (away to Liverpool).

In the remaining games we failed to score in 6, Keane started them all.

I'm not saying Crouch is a better player head-to-head with Keane, but the Crouch/Defoe partnership is the best option we have, and the team performs better with them both starting IMO. That means Keane on the bench, and the only way he gets back into the side is an extended run to regain his form (which is something he's had to do on a number of occasions in the past) which cannot be justified given the effect it has on the team as a whole.

Since the summer I've seen Keane drop deeper and deeper into midfield, slowing play down when our biggest asset is our ability to move the ball at pace (the passing of Huddlestone and Modric combined with the pace of Lennon and Defoe) and struggling to make an impact in his primary riole as a striker.

We can fire stats at each other all night, but IMO he was relegated to the bench for the right reasons and was unable to get off there because he did not take the opportunities presented to him.

eagle eye

therecklessone wrote: »

I'm not saying Crouch is a better player head-to-head with Keane, but the Crouch/Defoe partnership is the best option we have, and the team performs better with them both starting IMO. That means Keane on the bench, and the only way he gets back into the side is an extended run to regain his form (which is something he's had to do on a number of occasions in the past) which cannot be justified given the effect it has on the team as a whole.

Since the summer I've seen Keane drop deeper and deeper into midfield, slowing play down when our biggest asset is our ability to move the ball at pace (the passing of Huddlestone and Modric combined with the pace of Lennon and Defoe) and struggling to make an impact in his primary riole as a striker.

The Crouch/Defore partnership will work in certain games, and it might have been a better one for some games but I don't think its been key to Tottenham's best form this season or last.
The second half of last season and the beginning of this season showed the best of Keane. As you said he was dropping deeper and deeper but I feel thats because there was no Modric. I feel Keane and Modric work really well together, they haven't got many chances since Modric's return. I think its an awful move by Redknapp as Crouch will not be nearly as effective with Modric in the side, what I mean is one will take away from the other instead of combining well.

Mr Alan

its a gamble no doubt, Pav is totally unproven in the PL and afaik eidur has been playing awfully since he left Chelsea (he has 15 goals in over a hundred appearances, 9 of which came in 40 appearances in his first season at barca)

therecklessone

eagle eye wrote: »

The Crouch/Defore partnership will work in certain games, and it might have been a better one for some games but I don't think its been key to Tottenham's best form this season or last.
The second half of last season and the beginning of this season showed the best of Keane. As you said he was dropping deeper and deeper but I feel thats because there was no Modric. I feel Keane and Modric work really well together, they haven't got many chances since Modric's return. I think its an awful move by Redknapp as Crouch will not be nearly as effective with Modric in the side, what I mean is one will take away from the other instead of combining well.

I'm puzzled.

What do you suggest Redknapp should have done?

Start Keane next Saturday in the hope that he'd rediscover his form?

Leave him on the bench until the match you think he was suited for and hope that he could turn it on?

Does the fact that he has played very poorly whether started or brought on as a sub since well before the Sunderland game (IMO) not count for anything, or do we work off a framework of "well he's done it before, so he can obviously do it again"?

Keane 6 goals in 17
Crouch 5 goals in 23.

Both pretty poor tbh.

eagle eye

therecklessone wrote: »

I'm puzzled.

What do you suggest Redknapp should have done?

Start Keane next Saturday in the hope that he'd rediscover his form?

Leave him on the bench until the match you think he was suited for and hope that he could turn it on?

Does the fact that he has played very poorly whether started or brought on as a sub since well before the Sunderland game (IMO) not count for anything, or do we work off a framework of "well he's done it before, so he can obviously do it again"?

You go back to what you were doing at the start of the season with Modric, Keane and Defoe all in the side. If he isn't performing by the end of the season then you can make your mind up to move him on, but sending him to Celtic now with Modric reaching full fitness is lunacy imo when you are bringing in Eidur Gudjohnnsen a 31 year old who has done nothing for years and holding on to Payluchenko who hasn't even featured since Redknapp came to Tottenham.
Keane had 8 goals and 5 assists in 20 games with Modric since his return to White Hart Lane up to the time of Modric's injury. Keane is a creative player, Defoe and Crouch are not.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

You go back to what you were doing at the start of the season with Modric, Keane and Defoe all in the side. If he isn't performing by the end of the season then you can make your mind up to move him on, but sending him to Celtic now with Modric reaching full fitness is lunacy imo when you are bringing in Eidur Gudjohnnsen a 31 year old who has done nothing for years and holding on to Payluchenko who hasn't even featured since Redknapp came to Tottenham.
Keane had 8 goals and 5 assists in 20 games with Modric since his return to White Hart Lane up to the time of Modric's injury. Keane is a creative player, Defoe and Crouch are not.

Some good points there.

Harry has made a big gamble. If Spurs don't make top 4 this year they may not for a long long time.

LeBash

I reckon the twist is a huge percentage of jersey sales with his name on it.

Lets be honest. At about £2 a letter and I think he's wearing no. 7 which will cost roughly £10 per number.

If you were a Celtic fan, would it be Rasmussen and 19 at £28 or Keane at £18.

In a more serious mannor, he is quaility. He has scored goals everywhere he has gone, and I dont think he's been given his fair share of time on the pitch.

I believe he is a whole lot better than Crouch and offers more to people around him, but Harry has Spurs in thier best position for a long time and so you cant question him, UNLESS, it come back to bite him.