Robbie Keane - A Theory

Mr Alan

crouch is much better than keane imo.

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

crouch is much better than keane imo.

I'm not sure I'd say he is much better but I'd definitely take him back a million times quicker than Keane.

Neither are prolific and need a talisman playing them imo.

therecklessone

eagle eye wrote: »

You go back to what you were doing at the start of the season with Modric, Keane and Defoe all in the side.

So you'd play an out of form player in the hope that he'll regain his form. Right until the end of the season.

Yep, the last three months or so suggest that would be a great idea...:D

eagle eye wrote: »

holding on to Payluchenko who hasn't even featured since Redknapp came to Tottenham.

You went to the effort of finding out Keane's stats with Modric, it wouldn't have taken much more effort to find Pav's. Last seasons appearances (starts and subs):

http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=36128

eagle eye wrote: »

Keane had 8 goals and 5 assists in 20 games with Modric since his return to White Hart Lane up to the time of Modric's injury. Keane is a creative player, Defoe and Crouch are not.

6 goals (2 of them penos) in 18 games. I'll take your word for it on the assists.

eagle eye

therecklessone wrote: »

So you'd play an out of form player in the hope that he'll regain his form. Right until the end of the season.

Yep, the last three months or so suggest that would be a great idea...:D

6 goals (2 of them penos) in 18 games. I'll take your word for it on the assists.

I am saying that Keane's game has not been the same since Modric got injured. Are you saying Keane and Modric don't work really well together?
Are you saying that its not even worth trying them together in a couple of games to see if the team can recover their early season form while Modric was fit which iirc was 100% winning record with Modric, Keane and Defore starting all games?
As I said if it didn't work out over a couple of games then so be it, drop Keane and get rid of him at the end of the season, at least you have cover if Defoe gets injured and you could have loaned out Pavlyuchenko and not signed Eidur Gudjohnnsen. What its the point in keeping somebody who is not starting and bringing in somebody who has shown nothing in years?
6 in 18 is correct, I got mixed up there, and 5 assists is also correct.

Its not like you have been on fire lately either, with only 1 win in 4 PL games since the new year.

therecklessone

eagle eye wrote: »

Its not like you have been on fire lately either, with only 1 win in 4 PL games since the new year.

That's right.

0-0 with Hull, when Keane started with Defoe.

0-2 with Liverpool, Defoe and Crouch.

2-0 with Fulham, Defoe and Crouch.

1-1 with Brum, were 1-0 up when Keane replaced Defoe.



p.s. in answer to your first question, I believe out early season form was down to Defoe, Modric and Lennon. The criticisms I have levelled at Keane here and elsewhere still apply, he dropped too deep, got in the way of Modric/Lennon more than anything and slowed our play down too much.

Ush1

rarnes1 wrote: »

Keane 6 goals in 17
Crouch 5 goals in 23 x being English = 50 goals.

Both pretty poor tbh.

Fixed.:D

eagle eye

therecklessone wrote: »

That's right.

0-0 with Hull, when Keane started with Defoe.

0-2 with Liverpool, Defoe and Crouch.

2-0 with Fulham, Defoe and Crouch.

1-1 with Brum, were 1-0 up when Keane replaced Defoe.

So you are just going to reply to one little bit of my post then?
I was talking about Keane and Modric starting together.
Would I be right in saying that when Keane and Modric have both started in the same league games that Tottenham have a 100% record this season?

therecklessone

eagle eye wrote: »

So you are just going to reply to one little bit of my post then?
I was talking about Keane and Modric starting together.
Would I be right in saying that when Keane and Modric have both started in the same league games that Tottenham have a 100% record this season?

You would be wrong, they both started the 0-0 with Hull. As for your other comment, I addressed that in my last post.

m@cc@

It would seem Sir Alex was right about Robbie Keane all along.

eagle eye

therecklessone wrote: »

You would be wrong, they both started the 0-0 with Hull. As for your other comment, I addressed that in my last post.

So then thats what? 4 wins and 1 draw in the league in five games?
And last season in the 14 league games that both Robbie Keane and Luka Modric played in, their record was 8 wins, 3 draws and 3 losses if I'm not mistaken. Over the course of a full season that would have left them with enough points to finish 4th.

This year their record, albeit the sample is very small, is even better than that.

Coillte_Bhoy

m@cc@ wrote: »

It would seem Sir Alex was right about Robbie Keane all along.

PiE

Shouldn't all this be in the Liverpool thread.

major bill

id rather have crouch and defoe in my team than keane anyday!!!

blinding

m@cc@ wrote: »

It would seem Sir Alex was right about Robbie Keane all along.

Others he was right about ! ! !

Veron, Berbatov, A ragbag collection of Goalkeepers bar Smichael and Van der Saar. Its just as well he had Uniteds money when it came to buying goal keepers. He has a real blind spot when it comes to goalkeepers and so have a lot of his goalkeepers.

Bounty Hunter

yay my account is back

For me one thing that really stands out here is a lack of ambition from Spurs. Unless Keane is a real negative influence at WHL (the Coppers stuff) i really fail to see the logic in the whole "its a good deal for all parties". Even with Gudjohnson now at Spurs, Tottenham are in no way more likely to get 4th spot without Keane than they are with him imo and recieving no transfer fee for him just means that he will be older (may have deteriated or lost some of his reputation) if they do ever sell him and they wont get as much money for him then. Harry has a reputation as a wheeler dealer but how is letting one of the top Premiership goalscorers ever go out on loan and replacing him again only on loan with a guy who has only played 9 games this year and hasnt been prolific infront of goal for well ever as he is more of an attacking midfielder / link striker,a good deal?

starbelgrade

blinding wrote: »

A ragbag collection of Goalkeepers bar Smichael and Van der Saar. Its just as well he had Uniteds money when it came to buying goal keepers. He has a real blind spot when it comes to goalkeepers and so have a lot of his goalkeepers.

What are you on about... Roy Carroll, Tim Howard, Ricardo, Fabien Barthez, Andy Goram, Massimo Taibi, Mark Bosnich, Paul Rachubka, Nick Culkin, Raimond van der Gouw.

Not a bad one in the whole list!

On an aside, I was at a game in Old Trafford when Barthez was between the sticks. Driving back from the game, a jeep pulled up beside me at the lights, the window rolled down & through a haze of cigarette smoke, Barthez's little head emerged, asking for directions to the airport...

Firstly, I don't know how he got out of the stadium so fast & secondly, how, after being at the club for several months, did he not know where the airport in Manchester was.

Either way, I got my programme signed, though after 3 attempts to sell it on E-bay, it didn't even get 1 bid!

uberwolf

my spoiler discusses tonights match.

I believe that Keane and Defoe faced a similar quality opponent over the last two nights. Conspiracy theory quashed.

ilovelamp2000

I think the OP is searching a little bit too hard for a reason for Keane's recent failures.

The answer is in fact fairly simple, he is past his prime. If you look at the history of recent Irish footballers very few can cut it at the highest level (taking the Premiership/CL as the highest level) once they enter the final third of their career. Roy Keane is the exception, but we know he gave up drink and made all sorts of sacrifices to prolong his career. It's fair to say Robbie hasn't done the same.

Someone mentioned the amount of games Spurs didn't score in while he was in the team this season, well last season for Liverpool there was an interesting split. I'm working off the top of my head but I think the figure, for league games, was something like 19 games with him in the team we scored 27 goals, we scored 50 in the 19 games without him.

Eirebear

Rosco1982 wrote: »

Someone mentioned the amount of games Spurs didn't score in while he was in the team this season, well last season for Liverpool there was an interesting split. I'm working off the top of my head but I think the figure, for league games, was something like 19 games with him in the team we scored 27 goals, we scored 50 in the 19 games without him.

No harm to Robbie...but heres hoping that kind of record keeps on goin!

daithijjj

Rosco1982 wrote: »

I think the OP is searching a little bit too hard for a reason for Keane's recent failures.

The answer is in fact fairly simple, he is past his prime. If you look at the history of recent Irish footballers very few can cut it at the highest level (taking the Premiership/CL as the highest level) once they enter the final third of their career. Roy Keane is the exception, but we know he gave up drink and made all sorts of sacrifices to prolong his career. It's fair to say Robbie hasn't done the same.

Someone mentioned the amount of games Spurs didn't score in while he was in the team this season, well last season for Liverpool there was an interesting split. I'm working off the top of my head but I think the figure, for league games, was something like 19 games with him in the team we scored 27 goals, we scored 50 in the 19 games without him.

Robbie keane wasnt the reason we played a bucket load of sh1te in january and february last season.

If we are going to use stats as facts to prove negativity, then i could equally argue the opposite, that a liverpool squad with robbie keane in it made the best start to a prem season in the last 20 years. Football isnt as black and white as goals scored. Keane was arguably man of the match at home to united alongside mascherano. Now im not arguing that 1 game 'maketh the man' but just a little bit more perspective would be in order. For example, what were the stats for games won, lost and drawn for each 19 games you speak of?

Mr Alan

is there any doubt that we were a better team last year after Keane left? Better results, playing electric football, scoring more goals.

ilovelamp2000

daithijjj wrote: »

Robbie keane wasnt the reason we played a bucket load of sh1te in january and february last season.

If we are going to use stats as facts to prove negativity, then i could equally argue the opposite, that a liverpool squad with robbie keane in it made the best start to a prem season in the last 20 years. Football isnt as black and white as goals scored. Keane was arguably man of the match at home to united alongside mascherano. Now im not arguing that 1 game 'maketh the man' but just a little bit more perspective would be in order. For example, what were the stats for games won, lost and drawn for each 19 games you speak of?

You could argue that, but my reply would be that you're mixing up causation and coincidence. Keane was poor for Liverpool and he's been poor since he left us too.

daithijjj

Mr Alan wrote: »

is there any doubt that we were a better team last year after Keane left? Better results, playing electric football, scoring more goals.

We played very well in the last 10 games of the league, from the middle of january to middle of march we were average. We played just as well in the first part of the season, we were top the league, remember?

We scored more goals for sure in the last 10 (it could be argued that the cautious nature of the manager has a part to play here), the shackles never came off until we beat madrid at home imo.

I never said he shouldnt have been sold, i just object to 'black and white' stats being dished out to prove one point when the opposite can be proved from a different set.

daithijjj

Rosco1982 wrote: »

You could argue that, but my reply would be that you're mixing up causation and coincidence. Keane was poor for Liverpool and he's been poor since he left us too.

He wasnt as bad as folk make out, he had some very good games at everton and home to united off the top o' me head. Sure, he had some bad games but generally players get longer than 4 months to prove themselves. He was also in and out of the team. Crouch played for 3 months solid without threatening goal and remained a mainstay for another full season. Just a little perspective is all im looking for here. You were kind of suggesting that keane was actually in the team for all those games, he simply wasnt, and was a late sub in quite a few for 6/7 weeks before he left.

ilovelamp2000

daithijjj wrote: »

He wasnt as bad as folk make out, he had some very good games at everton and home to united off the top o' me head. Sure, he had some bad games but generally players get longer than 4 months to prove themselves. He was also in and out of the team. Crouch played for 3 months solid without threatening goal and remained a mainstay for another full season. Just a little perspective is all im looking for here. You were kind of suggesting that keane was actually in the team for all those games, he simply wasnt, and was a late sub in quite a few for 6/7 weeks before he left.

Fair enough.

But for the sake of some perspective, if you take a look at Robbie Keane's performances and goals in the 27 games he played and compare it to Voronin's performances and goals in his first 27 games for Liverpool you won't find too much difference. Certainly not 20m worth of difference.

Keane was a failure for a variety of reasons, but there's no escaping the fact that he was a failure.

Plenty of people defend Keane and say he wasn't treated properly at LFC etc, but the fact is he has gotten worse since he left. He hasn't rebounded and returned to previous form, he's just showing a gradual decline.

And that decline has landed him on the scrapheap in the SPL.

keano_afc

Apparently Robbie has gone back to Spurs.......






....he was only on loan until the end of Celtics season.

blinding

keano_afc wrote: »

Apparently Robbie has gone back to Spurs.......






....he was only on loan until the end of Celtics season.

They have a mountain to climb now.

Rangers need to throw a few games to revive some interest.

Iago

Sterling work from The Fiver.

A (TRANSFER DEADLINE) DAY IN THE LIFE OF ROBERT DAVID KEANE (AGED 29)

12pm: Get up and eat hearty Irish breakfast. It's going to be another long transfer deadline day chez Keane. I've been a massive fan of transfer deadline day all my life, going back to when I was a kid growing up in Dublin.

12.45pm: Mmm, that was tasty. I've been a massive fan of rashers, eggs, sausages, baked beans, black pudding, soda bread and black tea all my life, going back to when I was a kid growing up in Dublin.

1.30pm: Knock on lid of sunbed and ask Claudine where designer washbag is. She says she'll pack it for me when she's finished topping up her tan. She's been a massive fan of UV rays, going back to when she was a kid growing up in Dublin.

1.35pm: Check tabloid websites to see which teams I'm being linked with. Ooh! Sunderland and the Queen's Celtic. I haven't played for either before, but like Wolves, Coventry, Inter, Dirty Leeds, Spurs and Liverpool, I've been a massive fan of both clubs all my life, going back to when I was kid growing up in Dublin.

1.50pm: Print off template of stock unveiling speech that's served me so well down the years: "It's absolutely fantastic, a real dream come true for me. I've been a [insert team name in here] fan all my life, going back to when I was a kid growing up in Dublin, and I always had a [insert team name in here] shirt on my back. So, to be here now as a [insert team name in here] player is incredible and I couldn't be happier ..."

2pm: Mr 10% hasn't called, so knock on lid of sunbed to ask Claudine what I should do next. She says to check to see if there's any reporters from Sky Sports News standing shivering outside the house. I've been a massive fan of Sky Sports News all my life, going back to when I was a kid growing up in Dublin.

2.05pm: Dash to window and look, but can't see any reporters from Sky Sports News.

4pm: Remember to open curtains and see inquisitive face of shivering, microphone-wielding eejit in Sky Sports puffa jacket staring back at me. I've been a massive fan of Andy Burton all my life, going back to when I was a kid growing up in Dublin.

4.30pm: Get call from Mr 10% - the Queen's Celtic have come in for me!!! That's great news. I've been a massive fan of the Queen's Celtic all my life, going back to when I was a kid growing up in Dublin.

4.35pm: Get on AA route-finder. 401.4 miles!?!?!? I can't get there by the deadline at 5pm.

5.40pm: Ring Mr 10% to explain predicament. Apparently the transfer window in Scotland doesn't close until midnight, so I've time to get a flight. A flight? I've been a massive fan of flying all my life, going back to when I was a kid growing up in Dublin.

5.45pm: Knock on lid of sunbed and tell Claudine we're moving to Glasgow.

5.50pm: Orange arm emerges from sunbed holding Armani washbag containing cheese sandwiches and a Lucozade bottle full of cold tea. I've been a massive fan of packed lunch all my life going back to when I was a kid growing up in Dublin.

5.55pm: Leave house, step over frozen corpse of microphone-wielding man in Sky Sports puffa jacket. Drive to airport, get on plane.

9pm: Appear before press at Queen's Celtic Park wearing green and white hoops, the colours of Queen's Celtic who I've been a massive fan of all my life, going back to when I was a kid growing up in Dublin. "It's absolutely unbelievable. I always wanted to play for the [Queen's] Celtic and it works out well for both parties."

9.05pm: Check fixture list. Next up it's Kilmarnock away. I've been a massive fan of Kilma … actually no, I've never heard of them.

eagle eye

Rosco1982 wrote: »

Fair enough.

But for the sake of some perspective, if you take a look at Robbie Keane's performances and goals in the 27 games he played and compare it to Voronin's performances and goals in his first 27 games for Liverpool you won't find too much difference. Certainly not 20m worth of difference.

Keane was a failure for a variety of reasons, but there's no escaping the fact that he was a failure.
Keane was asked to lead the line in the absence of Torres. That was never going to work. I remember watching just before Torres' injury and they seemed to be getting used to each other.
Plenty of people defend Keane and say he wasn't treated properly at LFC etc, but the fact is he has gotten worse since he left. He hasn't rebounded and returned to previous form, he's just showing a gradual decline.

And that decline has landed him on the scrapheap in the SPL.

I don't agree that Keane was a failure at Liverpool. Seeming you know so much about his time there, could you provide me with stats for Liverpool games when both he and Torres started?

His problem at Liverpool was that he was asked to lead the line when Torres was out, Robbie Keane has never been that type of player. He needs to know the players around him too, and at Spurs as I've said already here, I believe that he made Modric look brilliant, and vice versa.

People said in the past that Defoe and Keane could not play in the same team, but with Modric also starting with them, they have an outstanding record.

And that last line is like some junk from the Sun, as a Liverpool fan you should not be willing to plummet to those depths.