30mph???

MikeHoncho

Are there any statistics to show the number of accidents within this zone and what percentage are fatal or result in injury?

RobbieTheRobber

MikeHoncho wrote: »

Are there any statistics to show the number of accidents within this zone and what percentage are fatal or result in injury?

Yes, yes there are!

RobbieTheRobber

ejmaztec wrote: »

"If we lay down a ridiculous speed limit, say 30kph, those feckin motorists won't be able to keep to it, so we'll make a feckin mint from all the feckin fines. Profit!"

I assume that this was the remark made by an anonymous civil servant behind closed doors before everything was set in motion.

Thats exactly what is was, it was a civil servant demon spawn that they are.

And as well as being the fault of a civil servant it was absolutely nothing to with any research at all

http://www.transportenvironment.org/Publications/prep_hand_out/lid/132
So there would be no point in clicking my link into a pdf which has absolutely no facts at all

.

MikeHoncho

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Thats exactly what is was, it was a civil servant demon spawn that they are.

And as well as being the fault of a civil servant it was absolutely nothing to with any research at all

http://www.transportenvironment.org/Publications/prep_hand_out/lid/132
So there would be no point in clicking my link into a pdf which has absolutely no facts at all

.

Yeah thats great an all but is there any research about Dublin city center in particular. How many road deaths / injuries have occurred within the affected area in say the last 10 years and how many could have been avoided at a reduced speed limit? Maybe I missed it in your PDF could you point me to the section which highlights this?

RobbieTheRobber

MikeHoncho wrote: »

Yeah thats great an all but is there any research about Dublin city center in particular. How many road deaths / injuries have occurred within the affected area in say the last 10 years and how many could have been avoided at a reduced speed limit? Maybe I missed it in your PDF could you point me to the section which highlights this?

You want me to get you these reports :eek:, I just thought you were asking was there any. Which of course there are!

MikeHoncho

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

You want me to get you these reports :eek:, I just thought you were asking was there any. Which of course there are!

Haha. No it was just if there was any available statistics to view online is all. I'm just interested to see the numbers.

Run_to_da_hills

MaybeLogic wrote: »

My problem is I ride a 1000cc motorbike (a bit excessive for the city centre maybe), I have trouble keeping it below 50kph, nevermind 30.

I also ride a GSXR 750, Its time to fit that very small number plate again.

CreepingDeath

Wazdakka wrote: »

Does anybody know how to voice an objection to the powers that be about silly laws like this?

Throw a shoe at the minister for transport.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

brianthebard wrote: »

So no one has ever broken the 50kph speed limit because its 'normal', but 30kph, despite probably being the average speed you travel through dublin anyways (or faster) is an affront to the god of motoring? There are some truly ridiculous statements being made in this thread.

p.s. this issue has nothing to do with the culchies driving through dublin a few times a year, so don't even bother trying to argue that one.:rolleyes:

no the issue is people being fined for going over 30kph which is a bloody joke. Im not talking about "culchies" driving through the city once a year, does every one who owns a car in the city from blackrock to malahide drive through the city center every day or even once a week? No. These are the people im on about

Im not saying people dont break the 50kph speed limit, but its much easier to maintain 50kph than 30kph, and being fined for doing 35kph it just stupid. Speed limiters in cars only go as show as 20mph, which is still over the limit

Drive from one end of the keys to another at 4am when the road is half deserted, and try to stick to the 30kph limit.

RoadKillTs

I think its an outrage! 30kph. Shar ya would nearly walk that fast.

Red_Marauder

I was driving up Northside last night from Rathmines, I have to say the feeling of driving on a long straight, almost empty street at 18mph during the night is totally backwards.

What the hell is the point of it? By all accounts it doesn't seem to be making any difference at peak times; at off-peak, it's just bizarre and frustrating.

It's like some bitter civil servant was leaving his job and decided to leave some two-fingered legacy behind him.

martingore

Who is going to enforce this ? The guards or is there speed cameras in the city centre.? I came along the quays this morning and there was cars beeping at other people attempting to keep to this crazy limit.

Son Of A Vidic

This speed is so slow the cops could probably speed gun pedestrians and issue tickets accordingly. So all you pedestrians out there - keep your speed down.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

martingore wrote: »

Who is going to enforce this ? The guards or is there speed cameras in the city centre.? I came along the quays this morning and there was cars beeping at other people attempting to keep to this crazy limit.

According to a caller on a radio show yesterday, there was a van with a speed camera on the keys yesterday morning, flashing a good bit too. The caller also mentioned that there were no signs on the keys displaying the new speed limit, so they prob have grounds for appeal!

AckwelFoley

Joe Duffy is going to hear about this **shakes fist**

Wibbs

seamus wrote: »

Burning more fuel is debatable. It burns more fuel per km than travelling in a higher gear because you're moving more slowly, but as I say above, your actual travel time through the city isn't affected (going by the council's theory), so you cover the exact same distance in the same time.

Its not debatable at all. Take a hypothetical road 10 kms long. drive the road once at 50kph at say 2000 in 4th, then drive the same road at 30kph at 2000 in 2nd. More fuel burnt in the latter. You said it yourself. You're covering less distance. So that debate is out.

You could use the same logic for any speed limit.

Im really wondering what type of cars people are driving. I really am. Keeping to 100Kph in 5th is a doddle compared to keeping to 30kph in 2nd. Move the throttle a half inch at 100kph and you'll see feck all speed sudden increase or decrease. Do the same in 2nd and you'll see a lot more. Cars and their gearing are designed so that 30kph is a speed you pass through, not drive at. I mean my speedo has a 10kph mark, try driving at it. I'll buy you a pint if you can

seamus

Wibbs wrote: »

Its not debatable at all. Take a hypothetical road 10 kms long. drive the road once at 50kph at say 2000 in 4th, then drive the same road at 30kph at 2000 in 2nd. More fuel burnt in the latter. You said it yourself. You're covering less distance. So that debate is out.

That's actually my point in a way. The zone itself isn't even nearly that long. And it's littered with traffic lights.
The theory is that travelling at 30kph, you will cover the exact same distance in the exact same time as you would at 50kph because at 50kph you will have to stop.

A more equivalent comparison would be to drive for 30 seconds at 3000rpm in 4th and then drive for 30 seconds at 3000rpm in 2nd and compare the emissions. There'll be no difference.

Now change it to be more realistic:

Drive in 4th for 10 seconds, stop for ten seconds and drive in 4th for another 10 seconds.
Then compare that to driving in 2nd for 30 seconds. The stopping & starting will mean that the former results in more emissions and wear on the vehicle.

(Note my figures are plucked-out-of-the-air types - you'd need to do proper calculations to ensure that both cars covered the same distance in those 30 seconds)

Of course it appears now that someone in DCC came up with the theory without actually putting in any effort to see if it could be effectively applied in Dublin.

I mean my speedo has a 10kph mark, try driving at it. I'll buy you a pint if you can

Mine has a 5mph mark which I can drive at, does that count?

patmac

It will be like shooting fish in a barrel for the Guards yet another indirect tax to add to the toll bridges, Gormless carbon tax, VRT, Road tax, tax on petrol and diesel.
I work in a factory in the midlands, we are in a 50 kph zone, cars mow it up and down here at well over 100kph never a Guard to be seen. They should concentrate on enforcing speed limits in areas that need it and not waste their time and resources on this pointless exercise and a few more lives might be saved.

pickarooney

seamus wrote: »

Now change it to be more realistic:

Drive in 4th for 10 seconds, stop for ten seconds and drive in 4th for another 10 seconds.

Taking off in 4th gear (or making three gear changes in 10 seconds) is hardly realistic.

Run_to_da_hills

medicman2009 wrote: »

This speed is so slow the cops could probably speed gun pedestrians and issue tickets accordingly. So all you pedestrians out there - keep your speed down.

Better still, wear a T shirt printed with a number plate or have a plate on your push bike to confuse the speed cameras.

seamus

pickarooney wrote: »

Taking off in 4th gear (or making three gear changes in 10 seconds) is hardly realistic.

It's close enough. I'm sure someone with ample boffin-ness could construct a workable experiment.

chosen1

seamus wrote: »

That's actually my point in a way. The zone itself isn't even nearly that long. And it's littered with traffic lights.
The theory is that travelling at 30kph, you will cover the exact same distance in the exact same time as you would at 50kph because at 50kph you will have to stop.

A more equivalent comparison would be to drive for 30 seconds at 3000rpm in 4th and then drive for 30 seconds at 3000rpm in 2nd and compare the emissions. There'll be no difference.

Now change it to be more realistic:

Drive in 4th for 10 seconds, stop for ten seconds and drive in 4th for another 10 seconds.
Then compare that to driving in 2nd for 30 seconds. The stopping & starting will mean that the former results in more emissions and wear on the vehicle.

(Note my figures are plucked-out-of-the-air types - you'd need to do proper calculations to ensure that both cars covered the same distance in those 30 seconds)

Of course it appears now that someone in DCC came up with the theory without actually putting in any effort to see if it could be effectively applied in Dublin.

They seem to be assuming that you never will have to stop if you're driving at the 30kph mark, like that every light is green scene in bruce almighty. All depends on luck and your position between the lights if you have to stop or not

EvilMonkey

Have they adjusted the timing on all the traffic lights?
Lights set for cars doing 30 - 50 kph and cars going less than 30 kph will increase Traffic congestion.

faceman

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Have they adjusted the timing on all the traffic lights?
Lights set for cars doing 30 - 50 kph and cars going less than 30 kph will increase Traffic congestion.

Nope they definitely havent. I drove from Summerhill to dame St last night via Parnell St, Capel Street and Parliment Street. Most of the lights I met were encountered were red. I only saw one sign saying 30km/h along that route and it was on the other side of the road. The sign on my side of the road was facing the wrong way.

Wibbs

seamus wrote: »

Mine has a 5mph mark which I can drive at, does that count?

Naw, my pint, my rules, my car.

ColmDawson

witnessmenow wrote: »

So your telling me it takes you longer to look at your speedo than it does for the green light to turn orange then turn red!?

Is it written arrabic or something?

Funnily enough...:)

walshb

I heard Usain Bolt was planning a visit but now he is rethinking!

anniehoo

Caleb Mango Kangaroo2010 wrote: »

The caller also mentioned that there were no signs on the keys displaying the new speed limit

The top of Christchurch hill there was a sign with 30kph on it. As soon as you reached the Quays at the bottom of the hill and turned left the signs are still at 50kph. Anyone think they got done for speeding yesterday should go back and take a photo as evidence.

Surely they cant fine you if the road signs havent changed?

Overheal

pickarooney wrote: »

Are people seriously suggesting that they are not able to drive at 30kph or lower?

Cruise Control - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But come on now. 30kph is a silly and arbitrary metric. Most US Residential streets (we're talking kids running through the neighborhood) the limits range from about 25-30 MPH (40-48Kph) School Zones (during hours of enforcement) ar 25MPH, or 40kph in Australia and Wales according to the wiki page for School Zone

See, these Vehicular Manslaughter Tools - they still have Brakes. And lets face it even at 25mph your chances are still good of surviving that accident. Then you take Brakes into consideration and suddenly you're walking up and away from the scene.

As for Traffic Lights, are Ireland's Cities not Smart Lights yet? Just timed then? Even here in lil' ol' Summerville just about every intersection is armed to the teeth with magnetic sensors in the asphalt. Computing takes care of the rest. Fluid Traffic Timing is the sh*t.

Wibbs

Overheal wrote: »

As for Traffic Lights, are Ireland's Cities not Smart Lights yet? Just timed then? Even here in lil' ol' Summerville just about every intersection is armed to the teeth with magnetic sensors in the asphalt. Computing takes care of the rest. Fluid Traffic Timing is the sh*t.

Id not be shocked to discover ours run on gas.

Overheal

Sure :pac:

But back to this - why does Ireland need to be different. They didnt look at the rest of the world and see 25MPH/40KPH as the normal slow limit? Cos Im inclined to agree - 18/30 is retarded.

pickarooney

Overheal wrote: »

Sure :pac:

But back to this - why does Ireland need to be different. They didnt look at the rest of the world and see 25MPH/40KPH as the normal slow limit? Cos Im inclined to agree - 18/30 is retarded.

Germany, Switzerland, Belgium, France to name but 4 have a 30kph slow limit in certain parts of towns. The difference of course is that they do it on a street by street basis as opposed to a blanket limit on an entire city.

faceman

pickarooney wrote: »

Germany, Switzerland, Belgium, France to name but 4 have a 30kph slow limit in certain parts of towns. The difference of course is that they do it on a street by street basis as opposed to a blanket limit on an entire city.

Ireland has a better road safety record than all of those countries bar Germany. Based on the 2008 figures, Germany only ranks only 1 place ahead of Ireland on the table of road deaths in terms of safety.

RobbieTheRobber

faceman wrote: »

Ireland has a better road safety record than all of those countries bar Germany. Based on the 2008 figures, Germany only ranks only 1 place ahead of Ireland on the table of road deaths in terms of safety.

So what your saying is that with the introduction of these new traffic calming or safety measures DCC is likely to become the safest?

Isn't that a good thing

Overheal

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

So what your saying is that with the introduction of these new traffic calming or safety measures DCC is likely to become the safest?

Isn't that a good thing

No I think he's saying that in 2008 Ireland was safer than those countries. Now that youre adopting those same practices, you could actually take a downward shift on the sliding scale of safety.

pickarooney

faceman wrote: »

Ireland has a better road safety record than all of those countries bar Germany. Based on the 2008 figures, Germany only ranks only 1 place ahead of Ireland on the table of road deaths in terms of safety.

I'm not sure how you'd compare stats for countries of such different sizes but I wouldn't be surprised if Ireland was, overall, a safer place to drive than France or Belgium. Drink-driving for one thing is much less tolerated in Ireland I reckon. I doubt reducing the limit in city centres would increase road accidents in any case.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

OutlawPete

Driving all over the city today and it's a joke.

Aungier St is the worst.

I tried to go 19mph and Buses giving me the lights, people on footpaths stare at you as they think your pulling up to chat to them.

If this extends as far as Fitzwilliam Square we're all gonna get done for kerb crawling.

Thomas828

I don't understand why some people are getting so uptight about it. I hardly ever go at more than 35km.h unless I'm freewheeling down a 10% gradient. I bet even Lance Armstrong doesn't go about at more than 60km.h.

Stark

As I said on the Commuting/Transport thread, I can see how this is a pain on the quays between Father Matthew Bridge and Gratton Bridge as they're relatively free of pedestrian activity, but everywhere else is long overdue in my opinion. I find trips to Dublin City Centre very offputting as I have to plan my day to avoid crossing the likes of the quays, Dame Street, Westmoreland Street too often. It's very frustrating when you have to wait 5 minutes just to check out a place that's right across the road. Hopefully the new speed limit will make the city centre streets a more pleasant place for pedestrians and hopefully encourage a bit more shopping and tourism in the area. I don't think there was ever a safety issue with 50km/hr, just an extreme inconvenience to pedestrians issue.

Overheal

Stark wrote: »

As I said on the Commuting/Transport thread, I can see how this is a pain on the quays between Father Matthew Bridge and Gratton Bridge as they're relatively free of pedestrian activity, but everywhere else is long overdue in my opinion. I find trips to Dublin City Centre very offputting as I have to plan my day to avoid crossing the likes of the quays and Dame Street too often. It's very frustrating when you have to wait 5 minutes just to check out a place that's right across the road. Hopefully the new speed limit will make the city centre street a more pleasant place for pedestrians and hopefully encourage a bit more shopping and tourism in the area.

Thats the thing, I dont see what the Speed limit and a difference of 10mph is going to make.

I think Jaywalking is a bigger problem for Motorists and for Pedestrians - a clear lack of places to cross. What about those - what are they called, Zebra Crossings? Its a giant speed bump, you have to stop for them, etc. etc. They've been used to great effect in Carlow at least.

Hank_Jones

I was actually practicing driving under 30kph the other day after I heard this.
I have to drive in second gear in order to stay under 30.
They are probably going to set up speed cameras in the middle of Dame Street now. Wouldn't suprise me if they did.

Stark

If you had zebra crossings, nothing would move. 30km/hr is slow enough that pedestrians can filter through moving traffic if they so wish.

OutlawPete

Someone change the the 30 in the thread title to 19 please .. it's giving me brain itch

Stark wrote: »

It's very frustrating when you have to wait 5 minutes just to check out a place that's right across the road.

What road do you have to wait five minutes to cross??

Seems to me in Dublin that any pedestrian crossing goes green within two minutes max. In fact I am sick of stopping at pedestrian crossings when nobody crosses at all. We must have phantom pedestrians pressing these buttons and legging it.

Stark wrote: »

Hopefully the new speed limit will make the city centre street a more pleasant place for pedestrians and hopefully encourage a bit more shopping and tourism in the area.

Talk about exaggerating.

No shoppers are staying away from town because of 'bastard' cars :rolleyes:

The only shoppers that curse the traffic are other car users as we get pissed off IN the traffic.

I get the Luas into town to shop and how in the name of God would the cars in town bother me to the extent that you suggest?

Overheal

Stark wrote: »

If you had zebra crossings, nothing would move. 30km/hr is slow enough that pedestrians can filter through moving traffic if they so wish.

Yeah but its enforcement with a signpost or enforcement with an 8ft wide speed bump. Which do you think motorists would abuse more often?

OutlawPete

Stark wrote: »

30km/hr is slow enough that pedestrians can filter through moving traffic if they so wish.

Pedestrians should't be walking in the middle of the road!

Overheal

OutlawPete wrote: »

Pedestrians should't be walking in the middling of the road!

Too true. I've done some things in Limerick as a youth im no longer proud of. It wouldnt be the first time I came within inches of a pedestrian collission.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Caleb Mango Kangaroo2010 wrote: »

To drive at that speed, i have to keep it in second gear. Any tip on the accelerator at that speed and the car jumps in speed. also the engine burns more fuel

I drive an automatic, at these speeds my car can't decide between 2nd & 3rd gear so it jumps between gears.

If I put it into manual I can select 2nd but the engine is screaming, but if I select 3rd its too fast so I touch the brake the the gear box selects the lowest suitable gear (yes auto boxes do this in manual).

Me also thinks Seamus is a cyclist who has dug in his heels in this discussion and won't change his view's regardless what the majority say.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Stark wrote: »

As I said on the Commuting/Transport thread, I can see how this is a pain on the quays between Father Matthew Bridge and Gratton Bridge as they're relatively free of pedestrian activity, but everywhere else is long overdue in my opinion. I find trips to Dublin City Centre very offputting as I have to plan my day to avoid crossing the likes of the quays, Dame Street, Westmoreland Street too often. It's very frustrating when you have to wait 5 minutes just to check out a place that's right across the road. Hopefully the new speed limit will make the city centre streets a more pleasant place for pedestrians and hopefully encourage a bit more shopping and tourism in the area. I don't think there was ever a safety issue with 50km/hr, just an extreme inconvenience to pedestrians issue.

From this I'm guessing your a wheelchair user or someone with mobilty issue's, in which case road user's should be taking extra special care to facilitate your safe passage, I don't know what else I can suggest.

But I very much doubt these speed restrictions will encourage people to go into the city centre, as for tourists - your joking right?.

OutlawPete

Jaycee Agreeable Farmer wrote: »

I drive an automatic, at these speeds my car can't decide between 2nd & 3rd gear so it jumps between gears.

If I put it into manual I can select 2nd but the engine is screaming, but if I select 3rd its too fast so I touch the brake the the gear box selects the lowest suitable gear (yes auto boxes do this in manual).

Me also thinks Seamus is a cyclist who has dug in his heels in this discussion and won't change his view's regardless what the majority say.

Same here.

I drive an Audi Multitronic TDi but I still have to select 3rd manually as it won't go there 'Automatically' - which now defeats me having the fecking thing.

The city center roads are bad enough with 'no right turn' here and 'no left turn' there all because some suits think it was a good idea over brunch.

Talking with a Dublin City bus driver today and he just said it was a joke. I would have presumed, seen as Bus Drivers use the city every second of the day, that they would have been consulted on such decisions and asked their opinions and if they felt the limit was needed or implementable, they weren't.

I'm moving to Leitrim - only two sets of traffic lights there and no speed ramps.