Pensions- are they linked to bank shares largely and will they go bust if banks natio

Mary Hairney

Hello.
I was reading an article in the independent last week and it stated that if the two main banks are nationalised that what remains of our private pensions will be wiped out. This is it on another website
http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2010/01/27/how-ff-put-middle-class-deep-into-debtors-prison

I find David McWilliams quite a depressing person personally but he's usually right about stuff and he usually spots disasters before they come?

Should I try and move what's left of my pension into a PRSA and is there even a bank it would be safe in.
I understand bank shares disappear when nationalised but bank accounts remain safe so this is why I'm wondering can I transfer into PRSA

homer911

Call me naïve but I see this as the principal reason why the main banks won't be fully nationalised - It would be political suicide for the party(ies) involved due to the fact that almost every pension fund in the country must have a stake in one or other or all of the big banks

RoadKillTs

You must be really worried about this seeing as ya have started two threads about it

I was reading an article in the independent last week

I wouldn't believe a word wrote in that rag tbh.
You pension fund is make up different stocks, bonds, cash whatever. Its not invested in the one company or bank.

Toots

That sounds to me like ill informed scaremongering TBH.

Also I'm reminding posters that speculative threads are not allowed in this forum. If anyone posts speculating that any bank will be nationalised/collapse etc, they will be infracted or banned.

FergA.com

Most if not all Irish managed pension funds reduced their exposure to Irish shares some years ago. For example, at 31/12/2009 the Irish Life Consensus Fund held just 7.07% in Irish shares and that's an assortment of Irish shares, not just the two big Irish banks. Bear in mind the Consensus Fund aims to mirror the average asset allocation of Irish Managed Pension Funds from the other fund managers, this should reflect an average position across the Irish Managed Pension Fund market.

FergA.com

On top of that, their pension funds — which were invested by charlatans in the shares of Irish banks — are now worthless (and after the nationalisation of the big two, they will be wiped out altogether).

This is sensationalist rubbish. Pension funds did fall sharply in value for a period which pretty much ended around March 2009. But to refer to them as worthless is simply wrong. Since the establishment of the stock-market systems, share values (and funds that invest in shares) rise and fall in cycles. Anyone who doesn't understand this, or who writes off the system as worthless every time the cycle goes into a downturn, should not invest in shares, directly or indirectly.

The average Irish Managed Pension Fund grew by 21.8% in the year January to December 2009. But of course it's much more interesting to write that the pension funds are "worthless". :mad:

Mary Hairney

I posted this question in another thread and two moderators commented on it and the second, Toots, closed it down.
Look guys, we're living in a nightmare times when we no longer can trust our banks, brokers etc . I asked a question because a reporter put the notion, almost as a throw away comment, in his article.It deserves to be addressed.
Can I ask Toots do you work in pensions and is this a possibility ?
I am a fellow Irish citizen so I think I deserve to be forewarned.
I'm suspictious of your censorship- who would moderate such a forum only someone working in pensions and banks and therefore how could they be impartial ?

FergA.com

For the record, I am a broker and work with pension funds among other things, but for the purposes of this board I am doing my best to restrict my posts to verifiable facts as above, rather than just posting my opinion, which could be perceived as biased.

Mary Hairney

FergA.com wrote: »

For the record, I am a broker and work with pension funds among other things, but for the purposes of this board I am doing my best to restrict my posts to verifiable facts as above, rather than just posting my opinion, which could be perceived as biased.

I gather then that this was just a throw away comment by McWilliams rather than some brilliant piece of insider knowledge he gained from all those wonderful high flying jobs he keeps alluding to he held?
Plonker if he's just guessing and has no facts to back it up alright.

Could the brokers pull out of Irish Bank Shares if what he is saying is true or would no one buy them ?

Looks to me like NAMA was our only option worth pursuing if keeping the 2 banks going is of vital importance to pension funds

Andymfinancial

FergA.com wrote: »

This is sensationalist rubbish. Pension funds did fall sharply in value for a period which pretty much ended around March 2009. But to refer to them as worthless is simply wrong. Since the establishment of the stock-market systems, share values (and funds that invest in shares) rise and fall in cycles. Anyone who doesn't understand this, or who writes off the system as worthless every time the cycle goes into a downturn, should not invest in shares, directly or indirectly.

The average Irish Managed Pension Fund grew by 21.8% in the year January to December 2009. But of course it's much more interesting to write that the pension funds are "worthless". :mad:

This is fact from Ferga. Its a disgrace that this is even reported, pension funds have grown significantly in 2008 but as stated it is not reported because it is good news. Why does ireland just continue to be so negative.

FergA.com

Mary Hairney wrote: »

Looks to me like NAMA was our only option worth pursuing if keeping the 2 banks going is of vital importance to pension funds

But that's the whole point - Irish bank shares are not terribly important to Irish pension funds any more - see my post #5 above. If every single Irish share in existence was reduced to a value of zero tomorrow morning, it would affect the average Irish Managed Pension Fund by around 7%. The collapse of two Irish bank shares would have an even smaller effect.

Toots

Mary Hairney wrote: »

I posted this question in another thread and two moderators commented on it and the second, Toots, closed it down.
Look guys, we're living in a nightmare times when we no longer can trust our banks, brokers etc . I asked a question because a reporter put the notion, almost as a throw away comment, in his article.It deserves to be addressed.
Can I ask Toots do you work in pensions and is this a possibility ?
I am a fellow Irish citizen so I think I deserve to be forewarned.
I'm suspictious of your censorship- who would moderate such a forum only someone working in pensions and banks and therefore how could they be impartial ?

No this is not a conflict of interest for me, I work in banking, not pensions specifically, but I have a knowledge of the area. There are other posters in this forum who are very experienced in this area and they can, and have, responded to your questions.

Your second thread was closed because it was a duplicate of this one. You do not need two threads on the same topic. In my closing post on your other thread, I directed you to the Charter, which contains the rules and guidelines for this forum. Did you read it? It states that duplicate threads will be locked. It also states this in the site FAQ section.

YOU may want lots of people to see your message but they may not want to see it. Pick a forum that is MOST suitable for your message and post it there. Once.

Any newcomers to Boards.ie should read through this to get a feel for how the site works. I'd also draw your attention to this section:

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