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Mother Teresa.

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    #32
    minusorange
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭minusorange


    Rev Hellfire wrote: »
    I'm surprised anyone would be surprised that a religious person would have a crisis of faith.

    As for the criticisms levelled against her, well my view is even if they have some truth to them; she still managed to do more good than those who vilified her. So the balance is on her side.

    Anyway she's dead, does it really matter ?

    I've heard of another dead person, who's name you may be familiar with, whose life on earth has proved to be of significant importance. Her life is probably more important now, ironically, than when she was alive.


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    #33
    minusorange
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭minusorange


    iUseVi wrote: »
    As the world's biggest Hitchens fan I'm interested to know why you think so? Do you think hes exaggerating a bit?

    Exaggerating isn't the right word, But it should be noted that there isn't a single footnote in his book, "The Missionary Position". As a Hitchens fan, I find it quiet annoying to find such a capable academic resort to this type of journalistic writing, when it is the exact type of thing he would criticise a pro-religion author for.


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    #34
    --amadeus--
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,096 ✭✭✭--amadeus--


    It wasn't just abortion she opposed she was anti-contraception as well:
    Mother Teresa was fervently opposed to contraception and abortion. She told an Oxford conference in 1988 that she would never allow a child entrusted to her care to be adopted by a woman who had an abortion or used contraceptives. "Such a woman cannot love," she said
    (link)

    An odious little woman who used the moral high ground to shell any social libertarians to pieces.


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    #35
    minusorange
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭minusorange


    --amadeus-- wrote: »
    It wasn't just abortion she opposed she was anti-contraception as well:

    (link)

    An odious little woman who used the moral high ground to shell any social libertarians to pieces.

    I agree, but it's a topic worthy of an academic focus. Hitchens book doesn't do it any justice. Typical Hitchens rant.


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    #36
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    minusorange wrote: »
    I've heard of another dead person, who's name you may be familiar with, whose life on earth has proved to be of significant importance. Her life is probably more important now, ironically, than when she was alive.
    Princess Diana?

    MrP


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    #37
    minusorange
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭minusorange


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Princess Diana?

    MrP

    Ha! I was thinking more of the alleged Jesus Christ... :)


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    #38
    DogmaticLefty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭DogmaticLefty


    Wow. Just wow. The historical reverse engineering ('hacking' is a better word actually) is pathetic. Next you'll be denying the Holocaust.


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    #39
    iUseVi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭iUseVi


    DogmaticLefty wrote: »
    Wow. Just wow. The historical reverse engineering ('hacking' is a better word actually) is pathetic. Next you'll be denying the Holocaust.

    I've got you this time smelly evil atheists! Mwahahhaha. You are all anti-semetic holocaust deniers!!!!

    Contribute or GTFO, some of us enjoy this forum.


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    #40
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Muppet Man wrote: »
    Sorry, pet hate of mine, http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_the_saying_'all_intents_and_purposes'_or_'all_intense_purposes'

    Fuck yes. I could think of nothing but this while reading this thread. INTENSIVE PURPOSES.

    Right. Mother Theresa. Not much worse than the other six billion or so people who do nothing to make practical improvements in the lives of others. Though at least most people aren't held up as paragons of virtue. I'd direct more criticism at the church and media for portraying her as they did.


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    #41
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    DogmaticLefty wrote: »
    Wow. Just wow. The historical reverse engineering ('hacking' is a better word actually) is pathetic. Next you'll be denying the Holocaust.

    Seriously can we please get rid of this guy? He was entertaining at first but every single post is a ridiculous and pointless one liner. It's becoming irritating. We can go a dozen pages with Jakkass because he can at least contribute more than "Aha! Bad atheists are bad robots!"


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    #42
    Irlandese
    Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭Irlandese


    I just came across this thread and had to comment:
    Hitchens own quoted comments and very restrained film clip are very very tame in comparison to remarks made to me and to others by other internationalhumanitarian volunteers who had seen at first hand and for years what this woman was responsible for. She was a major con-woman with a penchant for the high life while parading the suffering bodies of India's poor, like any street corner beggar camping up their ailments, often spurious. Their ailments were not, her presummed charity was.
    Lets leave aside the facts that she spent nearly all of her own personal time touring the world and visiting mega-rich "donors" who laid on every conceivable luxury for their "little saint". Lets leave aside her close personal association with the Marcos's and her glowing endorsements of numerous other world despots and mega-criminals. Lets leave aside her insistence on using sick poor people as "PR props" in her carefully staged films and documentaries designed to pull in more wealth for her and her personal cult, with only a fraction going on actual "services". Remember instead her refusal to let the money be used for relatively simple life-saving operations for these poor people. Remember her insistence on having them lie and die without medical services but with plenty of camera flashes to light up their trip to heaven, even if they did not really need to die at all, if they were in any other type of "health care establishment", with even a fraction of the gold garnered by this con-woman.
    Remember her opposition to contraception and abortions for the hundreds of thousands of low-caste women condemned to prostitution in the slums by economic disadvantage, while she happily went on TV with some of the politicians and others who were benefitting directly and indirectly from the exploitation of these women.
    Let us remember her eyes, just like the eyes of Cardinal Cathal daly.
    The eyes never lie.
    I am so glad I did not have to look up into those eyes.....ever.


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    #43
    DogmaticLefty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭DogmaticLefty


    iUseVi wrote: »
    Contribute or GTFO, some of us enjoy this forum.

    That's the sad thing. You get kicks out of knocking other people's good works. Trying to distort history so as to suit your current agenda is really sad. You guys might want to save up to pay for a centre for atheist studies so you can churn out lies to your hearts content. But I doubt you have either the money or the conviction to do so.


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    #44
    DogmaticLefty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭DogmaticLefty


    Irlandese wrote: »
    I just came across this thread and had to comment:
    Hitchens own quoted comments and very restrained film clip are very very tame in comparison to remarks made to me and to others by other internationalhumanitarian volunteers who had seen at first hand and for years what this woman was responsible for. She was a major con-woman with a penchant for the high life while parading the suffering bodies of India's poor, like any street corner beggar camping up their ailments, often spurious. Their ailments were not, her presummed charity was.
    Lets leave aside the facts that she spent nearly all of her own personal time touring the world and visiting mega-rich "donors" who laid on every conceivable luxury for their "little saint". Lets leave aside her close personal association with the Marcos's and her glowing endorsements of numerous other world despots and mega-criminals. Lets leave aside her insistence on using sick poor people as "PR props" in her carefully staged films and documentaries designed to pull in more wealth for her and her personal cult, with only a fraction going on actual "services". Remember instead her refusal to let the money be used for relatively simple life-saving operations for these poor people. Remember her insistence on having them lie and die without medical services but with plenty of camera flashes to light up their trip to heaven, even if they did not really need to die at all, if they were in any other type of "health care establishment", with even a fraction of the gold garnered by this con-woman.
    Remember her opposition to contraception and abortions for the hundreds of thousands of low-caste women condemned to prostitution in the slums by economic disadvantage, while she happily went on TV with some of the politicians and others who were benefitting directly and indirectly from the exploitation of these women.
    Let us remember her eyes, just like the eyes of Cardinal Cathal daly.
    The eyes never lie.
    I am so glad I did not have to look up into those eyes.....ever.

    Wow. That's quite a rant there. Your true colours certainly show through.


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    #45
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    DogmaticLefty wrote: »
    Wow. That's quite a rant there. Your true colours certainly show through.

    Yeah, I hate people who are compassionate and care about women forced into prostitution.


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    #46
    DogmaticLefty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭DogmaticLefty


    ChocolateSauce wrote: »
    Yeah, I hate people who are compassionate and care about women forced into prostitution.

    Prostitutes with bumps on their bellies don't do much business for their pimps - no wait, you force them to abort their own child in that case.


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    #47
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    DogmaticLefty wrote: »
    That's the sad thing. You get kicks out of knocking other people's good works. Trying to distort history so as to suit your current agenda is really sad. You guys might want to save up to pay for a centre for atheist studies so you can churn out lies to your hearts content. But I doubt you have either the money or the conviction to do so.
    Why would atheists have money? There is no group. What are atheist studies? We don't own huge tracts of land or billions of pounds worth of building and art. We don't have the power to get the police to look the other way when we do anything wrong.

    We are a bunch of individuals that share one opinion in common. No doubt we share other ideas in common as well, but only one is relevant to us being called atheists.

    Your term "distorting history" implies that you think something being said is incorrect. Do you have evidence that any of the negative things said about Mother Teresa are incorrect? I understand that hearing that one of the people you perhaps held in high regard was actually kind of a bit evil can be difficult. But then, as a catholic, I presume, you should be well used to that, what with all the child rape and everything.

    I understand that it must be frustrating for you to see all these people that just don't seem to be able to get what you get. I'm sorry about that. I just can't get over the fact that your religion and your beliefs appear to be utter, utter sh1t. They make no sense at all. I disbelieve this rubbish so much that I have made a living will that ensures that in the event of my suddenly finding a god or religion I will be sent for a brain scan and a psychiatric evaluation. Such is my disbelief for the rubbish you believe that I am 100% positive that if I ever come to believe it the only possible cause will be a brain tumour or injury or a neuro-chemical imbalance.

    MrP


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    #48
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    ChocolateSauce wrote: »
    Yeah, I hate people who are compassionate and care about women forced into prostitution.
    I heard a nun on Newstalk106 a few years ago that works with prostitutes. She was saying that first holy communion is one of the biggest drivers for prostitution in Ireland. Apparently during "the season" the number of women who have to resort to prostitution rises dramatically.

    She personally felt the priests were much to blame for this. Apparently it would be well within their power to decide that the kids should wear their school uniform for the ceremony. These women are not going on the game to pay for parties for 100 guests, but simply for the basic stuff like a nice outfit for the kids. Easily tackled.

    Kind of ironic I thought...

    MrP


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    #49
    DogmaticLefty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭DogmaticLefty


    MrPudding wrote: »
    I disbelieve this rubbish so much that I have made a living will that ensures that in the event of my suddenly finding a god or religion I will be sent for a brain scan and a psychiatric evaluation. Such is my disbelief for the rubbish you believe that I am 100% positive that if I ever come to believe it the only possible cause will be a brain tumour or injury or a neuro-chemical imbalance.

    Fair play to ye.


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    #50
    DogmaticLefty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭DogmaticLefty


    MrPudding wrote: »
    I heard a nun on Newstalk106 a few years ago that works with prostitutes. She was saying that first holy communion is one of the biggest drivers for prostitution in Ireland. Apparently during "the season" the number of women who have to resort to prostitution rises dramatically.

    She personally felt the priests were much to blame for this. Apparently it would be well within their power to decide that the kids should wear their school uniform for the ceremony. These women are not going on the game to pay for parties for 100 guests, but simply for the basic stuff like a nice outfit for the kids. Easily tackled.

    Kind of ironic I thought...

    MrP

    Apparently...


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    #51
    panda100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭panda100


    Irlandese wrote: »
    Lets leave aside the facts that she spent nearly all of her own personal time touring the world and visiting mega-rich "donors" who laid on every conceivable luxury for their "little saint".

    I think this is what I have the problem with. The adulation and respect she gave the richest of the rich,despite taking a vow of poverty for her God. Then treating those who choose to take control of their sexual health by using contraception as the scum of all the earth.
    I can see a Christian saint by that logic but not a women or a saint that I would look up to by my own moral standards.

    I would agree with a previous poster that its more the media to blame than the church for the fact that a women like this is put onto a pedestal, especially considering the amount of social activist groups in India that do enormous,life altering work to change the situation for India's poor.


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    #52
    iUseVi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭iUseVi


    DogmaticLefty wrote: »
    That's the sad thing. You get kicks out of knocking other people's good works. Trying to distort history so as to suit your current agenda is really sad. You guys might want to save up to pay for a centre for atheist studies so you can churn out lies to your hearts content. But I doubt you have either the money or the conviction to do so.

    When you've been called on your bad trolling its time to pack up and move on somewhere else. Its just bad troll etiquette. Troll needs to go to troll school.


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    #53
    DogmaticLefty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭DogmaticLefty


    panda100 wrote: »
    I think this is what I have the problem with. The adulation and respect she gave the richest of the rich,despite taking a vow of poverty for her God. Then treating those who choose to take control of their sexual health by using contraception as the scum of all the earth.
    I can see a Christian saint by that logic but not a women or a saint that I would look up to by my own moral standards.

    I would agree with a previous poster that its more the media to blame than the church for the fact that a women like this is put onto a pedestal, especially considering the amount of social activist groups in India that do enormous,life altering work to change the situation for India's poor.

    Catholic nun teaches abstinence *shock horror*. Catholic nun teaches that abortion is immoral *shock horror*. Catholic nun teaches that contraception is immoral *shock horror*. Whatever next will you be giving out about?


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    #54
    DogmaticLefty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭DogmaticLefty


    panda100 wrote: »
    I think this is what I have the problem with. The adulation and respect she gave the richest of the rich,despite taking a vow of poverty for her God. Then treating those who choose to take control of their sexual health by using contraception as the scum of all the earth.
    I can see a Christian saint by that logic but not a women or a saint that I would look up to by my own moral standards.

    How much do you think the CEO of the Red Cross gets paid, huh?


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    #55
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 13,005 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    DogmaticLefty wrote: »
    Wow. That's quite a rant there. Your true colours certainly show through.
    Those colours being ... not Catholic? Well, duh, what's the name of this forum? You think it's populated by Catholics railing against atheism? Atheists are people too.

    The point of that rant was that Mother Teresa was ideologically Catholic to a fault, and would compromise on general ethics to pursue her specific religious agenda. The ends justified the means.
    DogmaticLefty wrote: »
    Prostitutes with bumps on their bellies don't do much business for their pimps - no wait, you force them to abort their own child in that case.
    What part of contraception don't you understand? Mother Teresa opposed contraception, as the Vatican does today. Contraception prevents pregnancy. No pregnancy, no need for abortions, legal or otherwise.

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



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    #56
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    DogmaticLefty wrote: »
    That's the sad thing. You get kicks out of knocking other people's good works. Trying to distort history so as to suit your current agenda is really sad. You guys might want to save up to pay for a centre for atheist studies so you can churn out lies to your hearts content. But I doubt you have either the money or the conviction to do so.
    Lefty - this is your last chance. Engage with individual posters in a mature manner and quit making churlish generalisations about the forum users - or you will be ejected.


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    #57
    Irlandese
    Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭Irlandese


    Dades wrote: »
    Lefty - this is your last chance. Engage with individual posters in a mature manner and quit making churlish generalisations about the forum users - or you will be ejected.


    Hi dades,
    Bravo, It is about time you cottoned on to "dogwhatever"'s uncouth babbling.
    He seems to like the "ignore list" option.
    Have we an "ignore list" to put him on permanently?


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    #58
    panda100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭panda100


    DogmaticLefty wrote: »
    Catholic nun teaches abstinence *shock horror*. Catholic nun teaches that abortion is immoral *shock horror*. Catholic nun teaches that contraception is immoral *shock horror*. Whatever next will you be giving out about?

    I am not suprised by her being against contraception/abortion etc as she was a Catholic.
    However, I am bemused at why she targetted the rights of women so much and remained so silent on the stark difference between India's rich and poor. Jesus frequently condemned those who were wealthy and those who were rich. He showed a complete disdain for those whom accumulated great wealth as it leads to selfishness and obsession over something other than God.
    Mother Teresa seemed to be the exact opposite, praising and worshipping those who were rich,having photo opportunities with them and generally bending over backwards for the wealthy Western world.
    It just seems very hypocritical to me and by my own moral compass I do not put hypocrites in the saintly category.
    DogmaticLefty wrote: »
    How much do you think the CEO of the Red Cross gets paid, huh?

    I do not know his salary but I presume it is quite a lot.
    I am not a capitalist and dont have a lot of respect for agencies such as Red cross and their heirarchial structures,hence why I mentioned social activist groups and not Western Aid agencies.


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    #59
    iUseVi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭iUseVi


    Irlandese wrote: »
    Hi dades,
    Bravo, It is about time you cottoned on to "dogwhatever"'s uncouth babbling.
    He seems to like the "ignore list" option.
    Have we an "ignore list" to put him on permanently?

    Just left click his name and click "add to ignore list". Its what I've done.


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    #60
    DogmaticLefty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭DogmaticLefty


    If you guys want to continually stick your fingers in your ears and live, unchallenged, in lah lah land, this society affords you that freedom.


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    #61
    Irlandese
    Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭Irlandese


    ChocolateSauce wrote: »
    Yeah, I hate people who are compassionate and care about women forced into prostitution.
    Yup, chocolate sauce, I think he has cognition challenges.
    I can just imagine what his eyes are probably like too....all that rage squeezed into two closely spaced little dagger points...........


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