NAMA-Why do we take it lying down?

oppenheimer1

jmayo wrote: »

Nice of you acknowledge all the usually trite ff explanations for the problems.



So unless one has a credible alternative then one is not allowed comment on the disaster in the making ?

I don't know what can be done now since we are tied to the banks, but by God I can tell you this NAMA is a disaster waiting to happen.

Let me ask you something as by way of analogy.
Do you know a good car from a bad car ?
Would you spend the same amount of money on a Lada as a Mercedes S class ?
I know I wouldn't.
Funny thing is, I don't know how to build a complete car, I am not an automotive design engineer, but guess what I can still tell the difference between a good one and a bad one.

Likewise I can tell the difference between a reasonably ok deal and a bad deal in economics and NAMA with it's hoels falls into the latter cateogry.
There are too many assumptions about positive trends in property which any eejit can see is grade A horse***e.
There is just one underlying principle behind NAMA and that is that all the banks must be saved no matter what the cost.
There is assumption that if we save them everything will follow, the economy will recover because they will be lending again.
Funny how some major expert economists don't hold that view. :rolleyes:

Now have you got it yet ?

The government have affectively bought a Lada for the money that would buy two S class mercedes.
And even worse the government are pedalling sh**e that we expect to sell the Lada in future for as good as the same money.

Well they were a factor. The ease at which credit was available, led a lot of people to gorge themselves on it. The credit crunch precipitated the events here, it could very easily have been something else though.


However your analogy, personally I hate them as they always oversimplify situations or are poor comparisons, like the one above. A better comparison would be overpaying for a bad car, yet the alternative is to walk the long journey.

No one says nama is a good deal. Its a bad deal for the taxpayer, but it appears to be the best deal.

Liam Byrne

MaceFace wrote: »

Also, a huge number "of us who bought home in good faith" also gambled because we believed that there would not be a fall in house prices, nor that we would lose our jobs.

Firstly, a fall in house prices has no actual bearing on someone who bought a home as distinct from an investment.

If you wanted it, and you reckoned it was worth it AS A HOME, then fine.

If you bought it as an investment, then you gambled, so tough (with a tiny "understanding" allowance for being misled by Ahern and his cronies talking down concerns).

And as for losing jobs, well that's always a risk, but even up to recently Lenihan was claiming that NAMA would free up loans and cashflow for small businesses, so jobs couldn't possibly any more at risk than "normal", now could they ?

hinault

Brian Carey, writing in yesterdays Sunday Times, suggests that the EU has decided to instruct NAMA to not use the long term economic valuation method for some loans going in to NAMA.

Carey suggests that this change of methodology will increase the difference between loan valuation and realisable value of the loan : which directly contradicts the undertakings by Brian Lenihan in Sept 2009 when he introduced the draft NAMA legislation.

And it is also reported that the EU have appointed Ernst and Young to spot check the loans being transferred to NAMA, on their (EU) behalf.


This NAMA mechanism gets murkier by the day.

muppet26

ah sure now now tis only a bit of cute hoorism but twill be for your own good so open up now and swallow.

dunsandin

Maceface and others appear to telling us that fundamentally, the Irish banking system is ok - that little business of loosing those billions is just a hiccup - in the same way as the Titanic is a fine vessel fundamentally, if you remove the unwanted water above it. Boys, the whole argument is getting farcical. Ok, if you insist, Nama is great, best thing yet.....where would we be without it eh...And Brian & Brian are genius captains, guiding us poor, lucky fools along the safe channel....And Dustin was robbed in the eurovision. I dont think I can be bothered to look at this thread again, its an endless argument back and forth - time will tell who is right.

MaceFace

dunsandin wrote: »

Maceface and others appear to telling us that fundamentally, the Irish banking system is ok - that little business of loosing those billions is just a hiccup - in the same way as the Titanic is a fine vessel fundamentally, if you remove the unwanted water above it. Boys, the whole argument is getting farcical. Ok, if you insist, Nama is great, best thing yet.....where would we be without it eh...And Brian & Brian are genius captains, guiding us poor, lucky fools along the safe channel....And Dustin was robbed in the eurovision. I dont think I can be bothered to look at this thread again, its an endless argument back and forth - time will tell who is right.

dunsandin, I don't think anyone has claimed anything of the sort. If you think that then it is obvious that you have not read the posts in this thread.

But hey, if it makes you feel better, then you just go ahead and tell yourself that.

dunsandin

Whatever - Im going over to farming section, thay seem to be realists at least. Hope nama ends well for you.