Lost 6x01/02 - "LA X" - 2 hour Season Premiere (**SPOILERS WITHIN**)

AnonoBoy

7

Necronomicon wrote: »

It begs the question though: if smokey made an appearance as early as the pilot, but Hurley only disrupted the ash later in the series, how was it/he roaming around up to that point?

As I said earlier I think it was there to keep Smokey out of the cabin rather than in.

Necronomicon

6

AnonoBoy wrote: »

As I said earlier I think it was there to keep Smokey out of the cabin rather than in.

Missed that comment, but it certainly makes sense. Can anyone remember the order in which the ash was disturbed/Locke went to the cabin? Because if there is a connection between the MIB and Christian, then maybe Christian appearing in the cabin would make sense if the circle had been broken before then. Maybe it was another part of his manipulation of Locke, which culminated in getting him off the island (leading him to being killed etc).

AnonoBoy

7

Necronomicon wrote: »

Missed that comment, but it certainly makes sense. Can anyone remember the order in which the ash was disturbed/Locke went to the cabin? Because if there is a connection between the MIB and Christian, then maybe Christian appearing in the cabin would make sense if the circle had been broken before then. Maybe it was another part of his manipulation of Locke, which culminated in getting him off the island (leading him to being killed etc).

As far as I remember Hurley disturbed the ash before Locke met Christian in the cabin. When Hurley looked in the window I don't think we saw who was sitting in the seat clearly, did we?

So Jacob could have fled before then and Locke was actually talking to Esau/MiB/Whatever we're calling him. So if that's true then Christian wasn't speaking on Jacob's behalf as he claimed to Locke.

It's all been a long con on the part of the Man in Black.

Way to go Johnny Cash!

AnonoBoy

7

Read someone speculating previously that they had never seen Smokey in the past on the island. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

The earliest I can remember seeing him was when Rousseau and the French arrived and went to the temple.

Could the incident in someway have formed Smokey or released him from somewhere?

Sad Professor

9

A "magic circle" could be used either way - to keep something in or out.

I don't recall the ash line around the cabin ever being disturbed. Bram and Ilana found it that way, but did we actually *see* Hurley break it? I don't think we did.

The figure Hurley saw sitting in the chair was Christian in his suit and tennis shoes. Hurley also saw someone else, an eye, resembling the one Locke saw in season 3, that appeared at the window and shocked Hurley. Hurley can see dead people though.

I still don't think Jacob was using the cabin. He didn't need protection from Smokey. In fact, Jacob's living presence seemed enough to protect the Others. If Jacob needed protection he would have put a magic circle around the statue as well and MIB wouldn't have needed a loophole.

The mysterious figure in the cabin is still up for grabs. But given the ash circle, they must be related to Smokey somehow.

randomchild

Sad Professor wrote: »

Yes. That's when they attempted to denote the bomb. So that's when the two timelines diverge. Hence the differences. My theory is this:

The conflict last season was basically over whether they had free will (i.e. control) or whether everything was (pre)determined. There is a third possibility, however, which threatens both ideas - indeterminism or randomness. In other words, what if it was purely random whether the bomb would go off or not. A 50/50 chance of either - out of their control and out of the realm of cause and effect.

Juliet hits the bomb - it goes off.
Juliet hits the bomb - it doesn't go off.

So both happen. The electromagnetism causes two timelines to be created in 1977.

One in which the bomb went off, wiping out the pocket of energy and preventing the Swan hatch from being built, which in turn prevented the crash. Wiping out this pocket of energy also eventually results in the island ending up at the bottom of the ocean.

And a second timeline in which the bomb did NOT go off and everything occurred as we've already seen.

It's a paradox akin to "Schrodinger's cat":

The problem with that theory is that it is not as simple as the bomb works/does not work:

timeline A: the losties still crash on the island and are transported to the present.

timeline B: the losties do not crash, island sinks etc.

Thus, something has to happen for each event to occur. You do not travel through time because a bomb fails to detonate.

James Forde

7

While trekking across the Island to warn the survivors about the freighter crew, Hurley accidentally fell behind. On wandering alone through the jungle and trying to catch up, Hurley was startled to see Jacob's cabin in front of him with a light gleaming from one of the windows. Oddly the cabin this time appeared to be in the center of a clearing and not at all where Locke had previously encountered it.
.
Hurley sees the cabin in the middle of a clearing. ("The Beginning of the End")
Approaching gingerly, and peering in through, Hurley saw Christian Shephard sitting in a rocking chair, when suddenly someone else's eye appeared suddenly at the window. Hurley screamed, and ran directly away from the building, but suddenly came up short a short distance away when he found himself literally in front of the cabin again. To all appearances, the cabin had seemingly shifted location. As the front door of the cabin began to slowly open, Hurley shut his eyes, concentrating and telling himself it was not real over and over. Upon reopening his eyes, the cabin was gone. ("The Beginning of the End")
Interestingly, Hurley did not observe the circle of ash surrounding the cabin. Later, when Locke mentioned that the group was going to the cabin, Hurley seemed to feel that they were going the wrong direction.

AnonoBoy

7

Sad Professor wrote: »

A "magic circle" could be used either way - to keep something in or out.

I don't recall the ash line around the cabin ever being disturbed. Bram and Ilana found it that way, but did we actually *see* Hurley break it? I don't think we did.

Damn it I could have sworn Hurley stumbled through it. Maybe not.

Locke certainly picked up the ash and looked at it.

If Jacob wasn't in there then who was it that asked Locke to help them? Could it have been Esau?

Sad Professor

9

randomchild wrote: »

The problem with that theory is that it is not as simple as the bomb works/does not work:

timeline A: the losties still crash on the island and are transported to the present.

timeline B: the losties do not crash, island sinks etc.

Thus, something has to happen for each event to occur. You do not travel through time because a bomb fails to detonate.

You do if there's another flash.

In timeline A the bomb doesn't go off, so "the incident" continues unbated. This would have caused another purple sky event like what we saw at the end of season 2 (and of course also in season 4/5), which would have transported them back to 2007. (Perhaps the reason there was no time travel in season 2 was because Desmond turned the failsafe key and stopped another incident from happening in it's tracks.)

In timeline B, the bomb does go off, wiping out the pocket of energy (before the purple sky happens) and killing everyone in the vicinity. Later the island sinks and the plane flies overhead and lands in LAX.

It's not a perfect theory, but it works imo.

homerun_homer

8

the_monkey wrote: »

Cheers, what i mean by "annoying" is the speed of her transformation,,
not so much now for this season ... but in season 3 , it was only 20 or so days since she had been grabbed....

Nope, the Losties are in the future. 2007 according to Lostpedia but this may be debatable. Either way they have been there a while and not just a few weeks and have fully integrated.

GSPfan wrote: »

It must have pissed people off at the start who thought it was just a regular show with the possibility of Dinosaurs or something on the Island. Its a sci-fi orgy now. I was happy with the days when the Fukkin Polar Bear on the island was the biggest mystery. Yogi Bear could walk around the island now and I wouldn't consider it strange.

Stop worrying about these people, they left the show long ago and it's no loss to genuine fans.

Dempsey wrote: »

Still wondering why the smoke monster kept ****ing with Mr.Eko

Maybe he realised that Eko wasn't going to be of any use to his endgame and got rid of him.

silsean wrote: »

What was the loop hole that lead smokie to kill Jacob by way of Ben?

Maybe it was Jacob meeting the Losties in the real world over time, maybe he cheated slightly and this left him open to be taken down by MIB.

Necronomicon wrote: »

I'm actually a little disappointed that we got confirmation of the MIB being the smoke monster. I actually wouldn't have minded if we never got a conclusive answer about what it was, it had a really cool mystique about it.

On Jimmy Kimmel's show after the premier Darlton were asked if MIB was the smoke monster and they said no. They said that FLocke confirmed he was the smoke monster.

To quote;
Kimmel "Is John Locke possessed by the man in black?
Lindelof "No"
Kimmel Shocked "He's not?"
Lindelof "No. well.." *Looks to Cuse*
Cuse "Well you actually saw a big bit of information about John Locke, he revealed that he was the smoke monster tonight on the show"

Sad Professor

9

homerun_homer wrote: »

On Jimmy Kimmel's show after the premier Darlton were asked if MIB was the smoke monster and they said no. They said that FLocke confirmed he was the smoke monster.

To quote;
Kimmel "Is John Locke possessed by the man in black?
Lindelof "No"
Kimmel Shocked "He's not?"
Lindelof "No. well.." *Looks to Cuse*
Cuse "Well you actually saw a big bit of information about John Locke, he revealed that he was the smoke monster tonight on the show"

I think the key word here is "possessed". What they said is correct. MIB is not possessing Locke. Locke is lying dead on the beach. No possession. MIB/Smokey is taking the form of Locke. There's a big difference between that and possession.

bossa_nova

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Damn it I could have sworn Hurley stumbled through it. Maybe not.

Locke certainly picked up the ash and looked at it.

If Jacob wasn't in there then who was it that asked Locke to help them? Could it have been Esau?

i just finished watching 'the beginning of the end', i thought sure that i saw him stumble through it, but it doesn't really show it , although the camera does pan to his feet for a second while his running but couldn't make anything out because of crappy internet qualtiy

[-0-]

6

I'm a huge Lost fan, but that episode didn't really do it for me. I have never really been too disappointed in an episode of Lost before....maybe some filler episodes but that was it.
This new episode just didn't really do it for me. We found out a few things, and have lots more questions - and Jesus I'm fine with that. I always have been. I was just a bit bored by the whole thing to be honest.

I'm going to watch it again this evening and hopefully I'll find my love for Lost again.

For now, it gets a 7.

silsean

5

The Don suggested Desmond is special - nice one! Perhaps so. Maybe he blinks and then merges both universes into one. But no seriously special Desmond off island will be interesting. We have to enjoy him now sane and normal before he goes off the walls again.

So i'm thinking season 6 is a Sliding Doors narrative with a Multiplicity twist and a potential Donnie Darko ending..

astrofool

I'd imagine that there is no seperate alternate realities, just one reality with a loop in it for the losties who travelled in time.

The underwater Island could be the island itself that has travelled in time and been buried. We still don't know what the significance of the second island (where Ajira crash landed) is. It could also explain why we had a crashed airliner under the sea (could there be a third time loop as well?).

Psychedelic

9

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Read someone speculating previously that they had never seen Smokey in the past on the island. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

we saw an ancient drawing on a wall in the temple last season ("Dead is Dead" i think was the episode) that showed the statue and the smoke monster, so it has existed in the past on the island.

AnonoBoy

7

Psychedelic wrote: »

we saw an ancient drawing on a wall in the temple last season ("Dead is Dead" i think was the episode) that showed the statue and the smoke monster, so it has existed in the past on the island.

Forgot about that. Thanks.

DeepBlue

7

LFCFan wrote: »

I really wish people would stop complaining when things get a bit weird on Lost. We've known from the very start that that there's a supernatural side to the show so why get so annoyed when there's unexplained events?

Tbh I hate when people say that because it's so clearly untrue. Didn't the producers even admit that they tried to hide the fact for ages that the answers would be non scientific as they knew sci-fi shows get such a bad rap?

It was only really in the second half of season three that they really threw away any pretence of there being a non-scientific explanation for all the oddities on the Lost island. And the second half of season three is not "the very start".

Anyways I enjoyed this opener but I've no expectation of a satisfying conclusion to the series.

Zombrex

5

Sad Professor wrote: »

I think the key word here is "possessed". What they said is correct. MIB is not possessing Locke. Locke is lying dead on the beach. No possession. MIB/Smokey is taking the form of Locke. There's a big difference between that and possession.

I think anyone dead you see on the island is the smoke monster. This was sort of hinted at when Echo was talking to his brother and suddenly realised it wasn't his bother (the brother asked him with an evil look "Who do you think I am?".

Given that the smoke monster seems to be all about judging people you would think that the Nemesis/Flock is all about judging people bad, and Jacob is trying to prove him wrong about something. Jacob always says you have a choice, like he did to Ben before Ben killed him. It is like Jacob is trying to prove humans are good.

When Ben's daughter appeared that was the Nemesis too, trying to get Ben to follow what FLocke was asking.

But then smokie seems to be protecting the temple, yet when the temple people found out Jacob was dead they started putting down ash to protect themselves.

So you have to wonder what the relationship between the Others and smokie is. Ben seemed to not know that smokie was the nemesis, neither did Richard.

You wonder how much the Others actually know what is going on?

Also not sure where Whitmore fits into all this.

Sad Professor

9

Given that the smoke monster seems to be all about judging people you would think that the Nemesis/Flock is all about judging people bad, and Jacob is trying to prove him wrong about something. Jacob always says you have a choice, like he did to Ben before Ben killed him. It is like Jacob is trying to prove humans are good.

Yeah, the island can either be a place of redemption or a place of corruption depending on the individual. Jacob believes the former, MIB thinks the latter. Jacob is trying to give everyone a chance to prove themselves. While Smokey finds them all despicable and unworthy. I don't necessarily think MIB is evil, or Jacob saintly. But there's a balance that obviously needs to be maintained. With Jacob's death that balance has now been lost.

But then smokie seems to be protecting the temple, yet when the temple people found out Jacob was dead they started putting down ash to protect themselves.

I wonder if he really protects it though. We got that information from Rousseau's husband, who may not have been who he appeared to be.

Also not sure where Whitmore fits into all this.

I think Widmore might be on the MIB's side. And that's why he was banished.

TonyD79

5

I think Widmore might be on the MIB's side. And that's why he was banished.

Then why did smokey kill Whitmores men after Ben allowed it get past the security barrier?

Also didnt Smokey kill the Frenchies in the past?

darrenh

6

Why dont they put a big circle of ash around the temple?:rolleyes:

Sad Professor

9

TonyD79 wrote: »

Then why did smokey kill Whitmores men after Ben allowed it get past the security barrier?

Yeah, forgot about that. Actually Widmore being on MIB's side wouldn't really make any sense.

darrenh wrote: »

Why dont they put a big circle of ash around the temple?:rolleyes:

They did.

KoolKid

7

Here is an interesting email I recieved today..

Confused by the 'Lost' premiere? Never fear! Damon and Carlton explain a few things about the start of Season 6 (SPOILERS AHEAD)


Warning, SPOILERS ahead. If you haven’t seen the season premiere of Lost yet, you might not want to continue past the jump yet. Lost fans who have now seen the premiere can read ahead for some explanation from Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof. (Comments are likely to be full of spoilers also, you’ve been warned again.)

Once upon a time in Germany, a very smart and spiritual man tried to answer a very tricky and troubling question. In a world created by an allegedly benevolent and omnipotent God, why the heck is there suffering and evil? In the world of philosophy, this field of inquiry is called Theodicy, generally defined as an attempt to understand and justify the behavior of God. The genius German dude thought long and hard about this “problem of evil” question and came up with an answer that was unusually heady for the time. He said that despite the existence of evil, this world is actually “the best of all possible worlds,” as if our universe is the least offensive of countless alternatives, or even a pastiche comprised of pieces from the best parts of all. Wild.

Over the next 300 years, physicists, philosophers, and science fiction writers have blown out Gottfried Leibniz’s “possible worlds” concept in many different radical, challenging directions to serve all sorts of scientific and intellectual purposes, their various nuanced permutations producing a slough of different, seemingly synonymous yet not necessarily equal terms. Parallel worlds. Many worlds. Alternate realities. Mirror realities. Modal realities. Pocket universes. Bubble universes. And my favorite, “Island universes,” because it reminds me of a TV show I’m supposedly writing about, one that has referenced perhaps the foremost philosopher in this field, David Lewis.

Today, there are eggheads who believe that these “island universes” or whatnot are real — that they exist somewhere, as real and concrete as “our world,” inhabited by variations of ourselves. Naturally, this assertion has invited intense debate. Where are these worlds? Can we find them? If so, can we access them? Communicate with them? Visit them? Is there one “official world” and all the others of deviations? Did all these worlds pop into being at the same time, or do we continually create new worlds with every choice and non-choice? If so, do the other versions of you that exist across the multiverse of worlds create new worlds with their choices and non-choices, too? And who are these other “yous,” anyway? Are you separate, unique individuals? Do you share consciousness and/or a soul? Are you and your other yous destined to reach similar fates, played out through different events or circumstances? Are you and your other yous unique entities with unique destinies? Yes? No? Who knows? What does any of this Fringe-sounding s— have anything to do with Lost?!?!

Maybe everything. Maybe… nothing! Maybe something somewhere in the middle. What’s definitely for certain is this: If you’ve seen the season premiere of Lost (final SPOILER ALERT now!), you now know the hush-hush new storytelling device for the final season is this whole notion of parallel worlds. We were presented with two of them: one in which Oceanic 815 never crashed; and another that keeps continuity with the past five years of Lost having all the characters trapped in the Dharma Initiative past magically uploaded to the Island present of 2007 where the Jacob-Fake Locke-Ben drama is all going down. I’ll have a lot more to say on this tomorrow AM in my recap. But before then, I bring you news from two guys who you probably MOST want to hear from right now: Lost exec producers Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof. My “Totally Lost” partner Dan Snierson and I sat down with them to talk about the year’s”flash-sideways” storytelling device. Jokes Damon Lindelof: “You [had] all these fundamental mysteries going into season 6. What’s the Monster? What’s the Island? Why is Richard Alpert not able to age? But here’s this new mystery. How dare they! How dare they present us with a new mystery at this late stage in the game!”

Fortunately, here are the producers to offer some assurance of answers and provide some helpful context for season 6.

EW: The whole idea of flash-sideways and the plan to use season 6 to show us a world where Oceanic 815 never crashed — how long has that been in the works? Why did you want to do it?
DAMON LINDELOF: It’s been in play for at least a couple of years. We knew that the ending of the time travel season was going to be an attempt to reboot. And as a result, we [knew] the audience was going to come out of the “do-over moment” thinking we were either going start over or just say it didn’t work and continue on. [We thought] wouldn’t it be great if we did both? That was the origin of the story.
CARLTON CUSE: We thought just doing one [of those options] would inherently not be satisfying. Since the very beginning of the show, characters started crossing through each other’s stories. Part of our desire [in season 6] is to show that there’s still this kind of weave, that these characters still would have impacted each other’s lives even without the event of crashing on the Island. Obviously, the big question of the season is going to be: How do these [two timelines] reconcile? However, for the fans who have not watched the show closely, that’s an intact narrative. You can just watch the flash sideways — they stand alone all by themselves. For the fans who are more deeply embedded in the show, you can watch those flash sideways, compare them to what transpired in the flashbacks and go, “Oh, that’s an interesting difference.”
LINDELOF: Right out of the gate, in the first five minutes of the premiere, you get hit over the head with two things that you’re not expecting. The first is that Desmond is on the plane. The second thing that we do is we drop out of the plane and we go below the water and we see that the Island is submerged. What we’re trying to do there is basically say to you, “God bless the survivors of Oceanic 815, because they’re so self-centered, they thought the only effect [of detonating the bomb] was going to be that their plane never crashes.” But they don’t stop to think, “If we do this in 1977, what else is going to affected by this?” So that their entire lives can be changed radically. In fact, it would appear that they’ve sunken the Island. That’s our way of saying, “Keep your eyes peeled for the differences that you’re not expecting.” Some of these characters were still in Australia, but some weren’t. Shannon’s not there. Boone actually says that he tried to get her back. There are all sorts of other people that we don’t see. Where’s Libby? Where’s Ana Lucia? Where’s Eko? These are all the things that you’re supposed to be thinking about. When our characters posited the “What if?” scenario, they neglected to think about what the other effects of potentially changing time might be and we’re embracing those things.

That said, are you saying definitively that detonating Jughead was the event that created this new timeline? Or is that a mystery which the season 6 story will reveal?
LINDELOF: It’s a mystery. A big one.
CUSE: We did have some concern that it might be confusing kind of going into the season. To clear that up a little bit: The archetypes of the characters are the same and that’s the most significant thing. Kate is still a fugitive. If you were to look at the Comic-Con video, for instance, that now comes into play. There was a different scenario in that story. She basically blew up an apprentice plumber as opposed to killing her biological father/stepfather. Those kind of differences exist, but who the characters fundamentally are is the same. If it becomes too confusing for you, you can just follow the flash sideways for what they are. It’s not as though there’s narrative that hangs on the fact that you need to know that this event was different in that world, in the flashback world versus the sideways world. That’s not critical for being able to process the narrative this season.

Is there a relationship between Island reality and sideways reality? Will they run parallel for the remainder of the season? Will they fuse together? Might one fade away?
LINDELOF: For us, the big risk that we’re taking in the final season of the show is basically this very question. [Lindelof then explains the show has replaced the trademark “whoosh!” sound effect marking the segue between Island present story and flashbacks or flash-forwards, thus calling conspicuous attention to the relationship between the Island world and the Sideways world.] This is the critical mystery of the season, which is, “What is the relationship between these two shows?” And we don’t use the phrase “alternate reality,” because to call one of them an “alternate reality” is to infer that one of them isn’t real, or one of them is real and the other is the alternate to being real.
CUSE: But the questions you’re asking are exactly the right questions. What are we to make of the fact that they’re showing us two different timelines? Are they going to resolve? Are they going to connect? Are they going to co-exist in parallel fashion? Are they going to cross? Do they intersect? Does one prove to be viable and the other one not? I think those are all the kind of speculations that are the right speculations to be having at this point in the season.
LINDELOF: But it is going to require patience. We’ve taught the audience how to be patient thus far, so while they’re getting a lot of mythological answers on the island early in the season, this idea of what is the relationship between the two [worlds] is a little bit more of a slow burn.

Did Jughead really sink the Island? And is it possible that the Sideways characters are now caught in a time loop in which they might have to go back in time and fulfill the obligation to continuity by detonating the bomb?
LINDELOF: These questions will be dealt with on the show. Should you infer that the detonation of Jughead is what sunk the island? Who knows? But there’s the Foot. What do you get when you see that shot? It looks like New Otherton got built. These little clues [might help you] extrapolate when the Island may have sunk. Start to think about it. A couple of episodes down the road, some of the characters might even discuss it. We will say this: season 6 is not about time travel. It’s about the implications, the aftermath, and the causality of trying to change the past. But the idea of continuing to do paradoxical storytelling is not what we’re interested in this year.

There you go. Some food for thought. Dan and I will have more Messrs. Cuse and Lindelof later this week at EW.com and in the new issue of Entertainment Weekly, on sale Friday. If you’ve made it this far into this post, stay tuned: There’s a monstrously epic recap coming your way tomorrow. Until then, please: Get talking! What did you love? What did you hate? What left you totally baffled? What theories do you have to explain it all? The floor is yours!

James Forde

7

cheers Koolkid it's been posted a few times already

KoolKid

7

Apologies .:o. Havn't seen it before.

homerun_homer

8

TonyD79 wrote: »

Also didnt Smokey kill the Frenchies in the past?

It killed a woman & severed one of the Frenchies arm but he survived. The other crew went to help him in the ruins and Rousseau became paranoid that they were changed, that they were ill. She killed them all.

Sad Professor wrote: »

Yeah, forgot about that. Actually Widmore being on MIB's side wouldn't really make any sense.

Maybe Smokey/MIB influenced Ben or the others into exiling Widmore, who knows how but if Ben was someone smokey has been using for his own ends then banishing Widmore and having Ben oversee it makes sense that Widmore may be an enemy to MIB/Smokey.

James Forde

7

koolkid wrote: »

Apologies .:o. Havn't seen it before.

it's good though most people wouldn't have click the link handy to have it there

youngblood

Wicknight wrote: »

You wonder how much the Others actually know what is going on?

Also not sure where Whitmore fits into all this.

I've almost totally forgotten about Whitmore's interest in this -who's side is he on again?? What was his interests again???

slave1

9

I literally could get lost in these threads for the next couple of months, but just don't have the time, suffice to say that apart from the crap CGI under the water, a lot of what I thought seems to be coming, I still think it's either two super beings or Hugo's imagination
It also pales everything else on TV into insignificance bearing the question what will we do when it's over
10/10

the_monkey

6

Do you really think the writers werepaying that much attention to the story back in s1, s2 ??

Or are they making this up as they go along , I know some things fit nicely into what has already happened,
But when this show started do you honestly think the writers had time travel, parallel universes in mind ??



I love the show, but if you told me back in S1, and S2 what it would be like now, I would have been really disapointed and would think it would be
craap ... but it has worked ... so far ---- the challenge is a satisfactory ending !!

KoolKid

7

the_monkey wrote: »

Do you really think the writers werepaying that much attention to the story back in s1, s2 ??

Or are they making this up as they go along , I know some things fit nicely into what has already happened,
But when this show started do you honestly think the writers had time travel, parallel universes in mind ??

They have always claimed they had the main story & how it would end planned all along. They say this will be proved with the Adam & Eve in the caves.

AnonoBoy

7

the_monkey wrote: »

Do you really think the writers werepaying that much attention to the story back in s1, s2 ??

Yes. Quite a bit of attention.

DeepBlue

7

By the way why is the "new" Locke called Flocke? I presume the term comes from other Lost discussion sites?

KoolKid

7

Think its short for Fake Locke

sprinkles

6

tok9 wrote: »

actually the more i think Sayid is Jacob the more i am unsure. Flocke didn't take over Lockes body so why would Jacob have to take over Sayids?

I completely agree. Smokey taking on Locke's "form" not taking his body. Locke is still dead - lying on the beach. Interesting that there is now 3 Lockes in the same episode I think the significance of the scene with Hurley and Miles sitting with Sayid with Miles looking distressed was to show that Miles couldn't read Sayid, ergo he wasn't dead. I hope he's not Jacob because I am looking forward to some more Hurley Jacob scenes. Also I wonder if there is a significance to the water not being clear and if that will effect Sayid in some way.

Anyway, I thought the episode was good, but not great. There was some very good scenes, especially the one between Locke and Jack in the airport. The acting and script was spot on. CGI as it has been throughout LOST was terrible. Really. They are making loads of cash off this - a little bit of effort in the effect dept would go a long way.

I'm particularly interested in Richard in chains idea. Immediately I thought of the Blackrock. I hope we get a flashback to that. In anycase I'm sure it's going to play a big part in things to come.

The Alt reality was very well done imo - nice to see Sawyer is still in his con-man game. I look forward to seeing how that pans out. All in all I'm really looking forward to the rest of this season as infuriating as it will be!

So just to recap (please correct me if I'm wrong - I have no doubt you will), Jacob and Richard were on the same side. The new Japanese dude with his John Lennon wannabe sidekick is also with Jacob. Smokey's agaisnt them. Ben seems to be a pawn with no real clue what's going on. Not sure which side Charles falls on. So is it possible that there's 3 sides fighting for control? Is Smokey on his own?

ps: Loved the line - "English leaves a foul taste on my tongue"... legend!

silsean

5

Does anyone know if Lindelof and Cuse will be doing podcasts again? Or are we at that point where they're not of use anymore, the answers are now about to come.

Hyzepher

I noticed that the croos in the guitar case is the egyptian symbol for eternal life, apparently it is also normally paired off with another - one symbolising life, the other death.

Might explain the relationship between Jacob and MiB

AnonoBoy

7

Hyzepher wrote: »

I noticed that the croos in the guitar case is the egyptian symbol for eternal life, apparently it is also normally paired off with another - one symbolising life, the other death.

Might explain the relationship between Jacob and MiB

It's also the symbol that was in the statue's hand back in ye olden island days. Someone also had it around their neck recently, didn't they?

MarkR

Is it just me, or did Sayeed sound very British at the end. He sounded like charlie I thought.

ixoy

koolkid wrote: »

They have always claimed they had the main story & how it would end planned all along. They say this will be proved with the Adam & Eve in the caves.

Yes but wasn't Ben supposed to be only in a few episodes? And then they brought him back due to popular demand? Given he's got a pivotal role now, how did that affect the original plan? Or was the original one very vague with a lot of room for this sort of manipulation?

This episode was nonsense of the extremely enjoyable kind.

Axwell

Just some observations on the ash thing, may or may not have been said before.

I think the ash around the cabin was more to keep MIB out. I dont think it keeping him out had anything really to do with Jacob as he cant kill Jacob anyways, this is the loophole, he needed someone else to kill him.

However we have seen others like Christian and Claire also in the cabin. I think the ash was to keep MIB from getting to them as oppose to Jacob. MIB seems to possess people that havent been buried, as if he takes over their soul and is able to take their form. Neither John Locke or Christian have been buried so he can take their identity and use it to manipulate others. By putting the ash around the cabin it stopped MIB being able to get at Christian. When the ash gets broken this changes and Jacob leaves the cabin, note how when llana and the group go there looking for Jacob they see the ash broken and that Jacob is gone.

In the meantime we have had John Locke fall down the well and meet Christian (MIB) who encourages him to complete his mission, which in reality is the setup to get John Locke off the island so Ben will kill him and start the whole loophole process for MIB. I know we see Christian before at one point where Jack thinks he sees him on the island but I think thats part of Jacks mind and the island (or MIB) playing tricks on him like we have seen before.

On another note the whole temple etc. From watching the other night the temple itself is the building where the fountain of youth etc is, the part the smoke monster goes through and where Hurley etc climbed down to is just the outer wall. There seemed to be a river/moat around the temple also so its easier for them to run outside and surround the temple with ash then to get across the river and outer wall and lay ash around it. As to why they dont just have a permanent ring of ash around it, I think Jacob being alive meant the temple was a safe area which smokey couldnt enter and had possibly been banished from previously. I think this is his reference to wanting to go home, he wants to get back inside the temple. Since Jacob was alive they people of the temple didnt fear being attacked by Smokey but now they find out hes dead they rush to protect themselves.

As always though LOST is a complete mind f**k at times and all of this could be wrong

Sad Professor

9

ixoy wrote: »

Yes but wasn't Ben supposed to be only in a few episodes? And then they brought him back due to popular demand? Given he's got a pivotal role now, how did that affect the original plan? Or was the original one very vague with a lot of room for this sort of manipulation?

I'm sure there was always going to be a leader of the Others. "Henry-Gale" could have been anybody at that point. If Emerson hadn't worked out, he would have been shot a few episodes later and another actor would have filled the same basic role of Ben. But they liked him and expanded the Henry-Gale sub-plot and made him the leader.

The characters were made up as they went along. The writers were always open about this. Nearly all the original characters were made up during the casting process in response to the actors auditions.

MarkR wrote: »

Is it just me, or did Sayeed sound very British at the end. He sounded like charlie I thought.

Yeah, I noticed this. Naveen's real accent slipping through I guess.

tok9

8

Lads i was just thinking about Sayid. We see in S5 finale that Jacob asks for Ilana's help and of course its Ilana who brings Sayid to the island so Jacob has known what is going to happen for a while now..

I think Sayid is still himself but clearly he is extremely important and might be the only one who can kill MIB.

df1985

whats MIB stand for? i keep reading it as men in black! confused enough as it is without aliens coming into it!

Sad Professor

9

df1985 wrote: »

whats MIB stand for? i keep reading it as men in black! confused enough as it is without aliens coming into it!

Man in Black. Close.

AnonoBoy

7

df1985 wrote: »

whats MIB stand for? i keep reading it as men in black! confused enough as it is without aliens coming into it!

It stands for Man In Black alright.

There's no given name for Jacob's nemesis yet so he's alternately known as Man In Black, Flock (Fake Locke) or Esau - (from an excellent Jacob/Esau theory that did the rounds at the end of last season I think)

Necronomicon

6

Axwell wrote: »

On another note the whole temple etc. From watching the other night the temple itself is the building where the fountain of youth etc is, the part the smoke monster goes through and where Hurley etc climbed down to is just the outer wall. There seemed to be a river/moat around the temple also so its easier for them to run outside and surround the temple with ash then to get across the river and outer wall and lay ash around it. As to why they dont just have a permanent ring of ash around it, I think Jacob being alive meant the temple was a safe area which smokey couldnt enter and had possibly been banished from previously. I think this is his reference to wanting to go home, he wants to get back inside the temple. Since Jacob was alive they people of the temple didnt fear being attacked by Smokey but now they find out hes dead they rush to protect themselves.

I was thinking this as well. We saw from Jin's encounter with the Russeau's crowd the monster, at one time at least, resided in the temple. MIB's comment that he 'wants to go home' and the subsequent rush of the others to get the ash around the temple indicates that 'home' could well be the temple. Perhaps he was banished sometime in the past.

Axwell

Necronomicon wrote: »

I was thinking this as well. We saw from Jin's encounter with the Russeau's crowd the monster, at one time at least, resided in the temple. MIB's comment that he 'wants to go home' and the subsequent rush of the others to get the ash around the temple indicates that 'home' could well be the temple. Perhaps he was banished sometime in the past.

That area where Jin was is still the outer wall, where Smokey was. As far as im concerned the temple is the actual building that the fountain is in where Jack etc are now. The other part is just an outer wall which is where Smokey floats around as its as close to the temple as he can get at the minute.

rushnaldo

7

Is Saaid(sp) now smokey as the water was not clear at the temple where he was dipped as the smoke was in it and now he wakes up just like the fake Locke?