WTF is feedforward?

Hagar

May I suggest that you include a few of the so called "mouthy malcontents". If you pick a group of people with a similar outlook and a similar agenda you are not going to get varied ideas. You need people to defy or at least rail against the party whip to get the ideas flowing.

My 2c.

--amadeus--

I'd agree with that but there is a difference between someone who is going to argue a contrary position because they believe in it and feel it is the right way to go and people who argue a contrary position because they have an axe to grind or a particular agenda to push.

In other words you want people who will attempt to use it to make things better (work within the boundaries, if you like) rather than people who will attempt to push the boundaries to see how far they go until they break, just because that's what they like or want to do.

Hagar

Exactly. Safe, middle of the road thinking never generates anything original but nobody wants to stray into total chaos at the same time.

DeVore

Boston wrote: »

Sparks suggested you spend all you time working on boards.ie for hugs and kisses. I pointed out it's that money would be a major motivator. Everyone has to make a living.

But you claimed FF was specifically motivated by money. Please explain.

DeV.

Boston

Sparks wrote: »

You don't think that maybe they operate the medium because they like seeing it succeed and that they've succeeded as well as they have because they have that regard for the communities?

Boston wrote: »

I'm pretty certain that money is the major motivator at this stage.

Nah, if you look at what I specifically quoted you'll see it relates to the operating of the medium for communities to communicate (aka boards.ie) and not related directly to FF.

Sparks

Boston wrote: »

I'm pretty certain that money is the major motivator at this stage.

I'm pretty sure that there isn't a single member of the boards.ie board of directors (board of dictators? ) who couldn't earn a lot more money a lot more easily than by running boards.ie. Frankly, the only reason I can think of for DeVore and the others to keep doing this is because they're all cracked hoors*.




*In a good way, you understand. Nothing good ever gets built without at least one cracked hoor, they're like duct tape.

GuanYin

Sparks wrote: »

they're all cracked hoors*.

Dude!

Advice to you all, if you don't know what that means, don't google it in work

Sparks

Sweet zombie bhudda GuanYin, don't google that unless you're on the kerry version of google -- it means something completely different everywhere else!

GuanYin

Sparks wrote: »

Sweet zombie bhudda GuanYin, don't google that unless you're on the kerry version of google -- it means something completely different everywhere else!

Yeah, I assumed it was a Gaelic phrase or something

Sparks

Yeah, it's a variant on 'cute hoor', which again, means something very different everywhere else...

AckwelFoley

69 wrote: »

May I suggest that you include a few of the so called "mouthy malcontents". If you pick a group of people with a similar outlook and a similar agenda you are not going to get varied ideas. You need people to defy or at least rail against the party whip to get the ideas flowing.

My 2c.

Mouthy malcontents are empty vesseles, empty vessels are good for only noise.

Vocal people are always important, however i find its the most vocal with the best ideas and opinions that are the best. Adding people to a group merely for the reason that they make alot of noise and represent the ""fight tha powa" brigade is of no benefit.

What is of benefit is hearing the opinions of a representativecross section of users - to which there are many.

Im not talking about "yes" men, im just not enthused by people that make arguements or derail an idea for the sole purpose to be heard

Boston

Sparks wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that there isn't a single member of the boards.ie board of directors (board of dictators? ) who couldn't earn a lot more money a lot more easily than by running boards.ie. Frankly, the only reason I can think of for DeVore and the others to keep doing this is because they're all cracked hoors*.

*In a good way, you understand. Nothing good ever gets built without at least one cracked hoor, they're like duct tape.

Don't be flippant. Your comment is based on nothing. DeVore, for one, has indicated he hopes for boards to allow him to retire to an island somewhere (Isle of man I think). How come every time some issue with regards to the commercialisation of the site comes up, the lines "It is a business after all" get trotted out but the minute someone suggests that the owners arn't just in it for a pat on the back and a thumbs up, its "ooohh what a bastard" and out with the reactionary nonsense. Making money isn't a mad thing, this isn't some Marxist republic. You're crack hoors comments contributes nothing.

Btw there was a conversation going on here before you decided to interject with your oh so relevant and witty comments. Now theres five posts of drivel. If you want to flirt with GuanYin or PSI or whoever is sitting behind that account these days, do it elsewhere.

Sparks

Boston wrote: »

Don't be flippant. Your comment is based on nothing.

Except having met some of them and knowing who the rest are and what they do for a living away from boards and what they did before that point.

DeVore, for one, has indicated he hopes for boards to allow him to retire to an island somewhere (Isle of man I think).

South china sea, actually...




Seriously Boston, that one was a bit OTT

You're crack hoors comments contributes nothing.

Cracked hoors. There's a difference, even in Kerry.
And have you ever met DeVore? The guy just doesn't match up with the image you're painting here. (And no, I don't think there's anything wrong with making money - I just think it's really unlikely that running boards.ie would have the best salary that those running boards.ie could get in Ireland).

Btw there was a conversation going on here

There was? Oh, I'm sorry. I'll just tug my forelock and let your top-down dictatorship moderate me right out of this thread so...

Steve

Boston wrote: »

DeVore, for one, has indicated he hopes for boards to allow him to retire to an island somewhere (Isle of man I think). How come every time some issue with regards to the commercialisation of the site comes up, the lines "It is a business after all" get trotted out but the minute someone suggests that the owners arn't just in it for a pat on the back and a thumbs up, its "ooohh what a bastard" and out with the reactionary nonsense. Making money isn't a mad thing, this isn't some Marxist republic. You're crack hoors comments contributes nothing.

It's Malta AFAIK and DeV's never been anything other than honest about wanting to be able to retire eventually on the coffers of boards.ie. I don't think anyone can begrudge that after 10 unpaid years at the helm of a site that has affected and improved countless peoples lives.

Respect and gratitude where it's due..

Boston

Sparks wrote: »

Except having met some of them and knowing who the rest are and what they do for a living away from boards and what they did before that point.

You're wrong. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest here about this. If you want to, start another thread and mark it for my attention.

Sparks wrote: »

And have you ever met DeVore? The guy just doesn't match up with the image you're painting here. (And no, I don't think there's anything wrong with making money - I just think it's really unlikely that running boards.ie would have the best salary that those running boards.ie could get in Ireland).

Current salary is irrelevant. DeVore is very open about the fact he hopes to retire off of future boards profits/other boards revenue.

Sparks wrote: »

There was? Oh, I'm sorry. I'll just tug my forelock and let your top-down dictatorship moderate me right out of this thread so...

Grand, Thanks for understanding.

Boston

Steve wrote: »

It's Malta AFAIK and DeV's never been anything other than honest about wanting to be able to retire eventually on the coffers of boards.ie. I don't think anyone can begrudge that after 10 unpaid years at the helm of a site that has affected and improved countless peoples lives.

Respect and gratitude where it's due..

I thought it was Burma? I've repeatedly said I don't have a problem with people making money off this site. When I have an issue with something It's obvious, no need to read tea leafs in an effort to find out my meaning. People making money is great but lets not pretend we're also back in 2002 with the owners supporting boards purely for no personal gain.

Sparks

Boston wrote: »

start another thread and mark it for my attention.

I'm not sure whether to facepalm or break my irony meter or just to play it safe and do both.

DeVore is very open about the fact he hopes to retire off of future boards profits/other boards revenue.

And I hope to retire from winning the euromillions. Doesn't make me a top-down dictator who won't listen to people. Doesn't mean I always have to have an ulterior motive in everything I do. Doesn't make me unable to listen to people - though it turns out you don't need an island in the south china sea (or to be a mod/cmod/admin/founder) for that.

Grand, Thanks for understanding.

You're not that hard to understand Boston.

DeVore

You ignored my question Boston.

I'll repeat it here. You claimed that the creation of FeedForward was motivated by money. Please explain how.

DeV.

Boston

Sparks wrote: »

And I hope to retire from winning the euromillions. Doesn't make me a top-down dictator who won't listen to people. Doesn't mean I always have to have an ulterior motive in everything I do. Doesn't make me unable to listen to people.

You're obfuscating the issues. You put forward an assertion that the motivation for operating this site is purely altruistic. You're wrong. Boards.ie LTD is not a "non profit" enterprise.

DeVore wrote: »

You ignored my question Boston.

I'll repeat it here. You claimed that the creation of FeedForward was motivated by money. Please explain how.

DeV.

I addressed your question in this posts directly following yours request for clarification.

Steve

Boston wrote: »

I thought it was Burma? I've repeatedly said I don't have a problem with people making money off this site. When I have an issue with something It's obvious, no need to read tea leafs in an effort to find out my meaning. People making money is great but lets not pretend we're also back in 2002 with the owners supporting boards purely for no personal gain.

I've never met you Boston but I have great respect for what you say. I have, however, met DeV and had in-depth conversations with him - I suspect you also have and I have to say that I honestly believe that getting paid is an insignificant but nonetheless good side effect of the job for him. Can you honestly say you'd do the same (put the community first) if you were in the same situation? Being perfectly honest, I'd have to seriously think about it.

Boston

There either is personal gain or there isn't personal gain. It's very simple. The suggestion was that there is no personal gain. A suggestion, I should add, that no one but sparks is making. He's equating working in a company and building it up with the hope that someday it will pay out dividends, to a shot to nothing on the lotto.

DeVore

I have 0 problem with making money.... this is NOT a particularly good way for me to do it.

This may shock a few people.
Prior to Boards.ie's creation and subsequently up to the time of writing, I charge between 500 to 1000 euros a day for my time and consultancy. Yes, a day. I am rarely short of clients and very few if any of them know what Boards is, let alone who DeVore is.

I am a maths graduate, apprenticed in computer programming for 10 years and with a history in banking, finance and insurance. I now have about 5 years of experience consulting at Board of Directors level, advising on everything from IT projects to marketing strategy.

I have taken a month off to come to Malta to have time to think about FF.

I "officially" work 3 days a week in the office for Boards and charge €2,250 a month before tax for my time. If I wanted to make money, this isnt really a great way for me to do it. But I'm not putting on the poor mouth. I love my "job". Its frackin' awesome. What people may not be understanding here is that prior to an infamous cycle to Turkey, via Pompeii I had a revelation that all the money in the world wouldnt buy me a second life.

From that moment on my priorities became "do really interesting stuff" first, and "see if you cant make some money along the way to keep doing it" second.

Trust me on this, one day will come when you (plural) realise that too. Pray its not the day you die.

I am incredibly blessed to have this life I lead. If it all stopped tomorrow, I wouldnt regret anything except maybe that damned tree in Canada.

DeV.

Sparks

Boston wrote: »

You put forward an assertion that the motivation for operating this site is purely altruistic.

Horse hockey I did. I said that the idea that the major motivation was money was incorrect. No human is purely altruistic and no-one should be required to be so by others.

That said, the first time I met DeVore, he was trying to eat his lunch in the space of ninety seconds -- that was all the time he had as he was going from place to place collecting donations to a fund that buys christmas gifts anonymously for kids in hospital. To say he's not got an altruistic bone in his body is a bit uninformed. To say he's doing boards.ie purely or even mostly for the money just does not scan.

Sparks

DeVore wrote: »

I wouldnt regret anything except maybe that damned tree in Canada.

Chainsaws first next time...

Boston

DeVore wrote: »

I have 0 problem with making money.... this is NOT a particularly good way for me to do it.

This may shock a few people.
Prior to Boards.ie's creation and subsequently up to the time of writing, I charge between 500 to 1000 euros a day for my time and consultancy. Yes, a day. I am rarely short of clients and very few if any of them know what Boards is, let alone who DeVore is.

I am a maths graduate, apprenticed in computer programming for 10 years and with a history in banking, finance and insurance. I now have about 5 years of experience consulting at Board of Directors level, advising on everything from IT projects to marketing strategy.

I have taken a month off to come to Malta to have time to think about FF.

I "officially" work 3 days a week in the office for Boards and charge €2,250 a month before tax for my time. If I wanted to make money, this isnt really a great way for me to do it. But I'm not putting on the poor mouth. I love my "job". Its frackin' awesome. What people may not be understanding here is that prior to an infamous cycle to Turkey, via Pompeii I had a revelation that all the money in the world wouldnt buy me a second life.

From that moment on my priorities became "do really interesting stuff" first, and "see if you cant make some money along the way to keep doing it" second.

Trust me on this, one day will come when you (plural) realise that too. Pray its not the day you die.

I am incredibly blessed to have this life I lead. If it all stopped tomorrow, I wouldnt regret anything except maybe that damned tree in Canada.

DeV.

Keep in mind I've seen the public financial records of boards.ie LTD. I'm well aware this site current isn't making a profit, nor is it paying vast sums in salaries. I understand the ideal of doing things which interest you and living for more then a nine to five. We're both working for a lot less then what we could be. I'm in no way having a go about money. A personal motivator for you is to retire someday and live of boards. No one is in a position to judge you for it.

Sparks wrote: »

To say he's not got an altruistic bone in his body is a bit uninformed.

Yes, that's exactly what I said. I think a rational person reading my posts will definitely come away feeling this statement sums up what I meant. There you go, you have your win, lets get back on topic.

K-9

Boston wrote: »

Don't be flippant. Your comment is based on nothing. DeVore, for one, has indicated he hopes for boards to allow him to retire to an island somewhere (Isle of man I think). How come every time some issue with regards to the commercialisation of the site comes up, the lines "It is a business after all" get trotted out but the minute someone suggests that the owners arn't just in it for a pat on the back and a thumbs up, its "ooohh what a bastard" and out with the reactionary nonsense. Making money isn't a mad thing, this isn't some Marxist republic. You're crack hoors comments contributes nothing.

Btw there was a conversation going on here before you decided to interject with your oh so relevant and witty comments. Now theres give posts of drivel. If you want to flirt with GuanYin or PSI or whoever is sitting behind that account these days, do it elsewhere.

There was a conversation going on alright Boston, it just took a turn that wasn't centred around you.

It isn't f*cking always about you.

I sometimes wonder are you a Dev Alt account!

I like reading your comments Boston, but times I go :mad:

Hagar

This is tedious.

Wibbs

DeVore wrote: »

From that moment on my priorities became "do really interesting stuff" first, and "see if you cant make some money along the way to keep doing it" second.

Trust me on this, one day will come when you (plural) realise that too. Pray its not the day you die.

+1000000 a relative in his 90's said similar to me many moons ago. I cant even recall why it came up, but I was stressed over a job at the time and he told me "no one on their deathbed ever wishes they did more overtime". We all need money for the practical things but when I look back on my life and look at the things that gave me the most pleasure, informed me the most or grew me as a person, they were either free or cost very little.

GuanYin

Boston wrote: »

Btw there was a conversation going on here before you decided to interject with your oh so relevant and witty comments. Now theres five posts of drivel. If you want to flirt with GuanYin or PSI or whoever is sitting behind that account these days, do it elsewhere.

Yes Boston, cos, ya know, you've never posted *ANYTHING* flippanton feedback.... :rolleyes:

There wasn't a conversation going on so much as a soapboxing effort by you.

So what if DeVore makes money, we don't pay anything we don't want to and we get the benefits of the site. I'm always told "you get what you pay for".

Here I think you get significantly more.

So then there is FF. It's a plan to move boards.ie forward. It may result in changing things for the better. It may not work, like many things haven't worked on boards before (imo).

Who is it going to kill by trying?

How is it going to influence the quality of your life or even boards experience??

Your kinda posting is one of the reasons I think FF should exist. Feedback does not work. Time and time again it's been the playground of egomaniacs and bullies and people who like to re-read their own posts with satisfaction to enjoy that put down or insult they got away with.

Something needs to change and in the absence of any consensus coherent ideas put forward, FF is a fair way to go.

Hagar

That was a great post.