HTC Hero - Adobe Flash

cwjcwjcwj

Is Adobe flash player pre-installed in HTC Hero? According to some news,adobe flash lite is available to HTC Hero. But I couldn't find it in market.

Bluefoam

Hero does have a version of flash installed. It's not v10 though. I've never needed anything more...

cwjcwjcwj

Is it? I can't watch any streaming video apart from youtube. For example, yahoo trailer. Can you?

nmesisca

cwjcwjcwj wrote: »

Is it? I can't watch any streaming video apart from youtube. For example, yahoo trailer. Can you?

it is. however as the previous poster said, its an early version so not everything will run smooth.
adobe will release an update Q1 or Q2.

Bluefoam

vimeo works too & there are some media players available to help you play other formats in the apps market

Matt Bauer

Flash on mobile devices is a mess. The full version of Flash runs down the battery too quickly, and the mobile version doesn't support a lot of content. The HTC Hero is likely running the mobile version, hence why many Flash videos won't work.

nmesisca

Matt Bauer wrote: »

Flash on mobile devices is a mess. The full version of Flash runs down the battery too quickly, and the mobile version doesn't support a lot of content. The HTC Hero is likely running the mobile version, hence why many Flash videos won't work.

hehe..

better light than... iPad though

Matt Bauer

nmesisca wrote: »

hehe..

better light than... iPad though

Adobe's co-founder recently kinda admitted he is too scared to call Steve. I am convinced if they got their act together, developed a working prototype and called Steve, the iPad would get Flash in a flash (pardon the pun).

Apparently Adobe submitted a Flash prototype for iPhone that was capable of playing all Flash content, and it reduced the battery life to 30 minutes. :eek: There is a reason Steve called Adobe "lazy" in a meeting with employees.

Bluefoam

Matt Bauer wrote: »

Adobe's co-founder recently kinda admitted he is too scared to call Steve. I am convinced if they got their act together, developed a working prototype and called Steve, the iPad would get Flash in a flash (pardon the pun).

Apparently Adobe submitted a Flash prototype for iPhone that was capable of playing all Flash content, and it reduced the battery life to 30 minutes. :eek: There is a reason Steve called Adobe "lazy" in a meeting with employees.

The one and only reason that apple will not allow flash, is that it allows people to develop 'app-like' content that would compete with the app store and effect apples ultimate control over the device and how it is used...

If they had any interest in allowing you to use flash on their device, they would have worked closely with adobe to produce a version specificly for their devices...

nmesisca

Bluefoam wrote: »

The one and only reason that apple will not allow flash, is that it allows people to develop 'app-like' content that would compete with the app store and effect apples ultimate control over the device and how it is used...

If they had any interest in allowing you to use flash on their device, they would have worked closely with adobe to produce a version specificly for their devices...

+1 gazillion.

even a light version such as the one on the Hero would be better than nothing.
and Hero definitely has more than 30minutes of battery life.

Matt Bauer

I'd love to see Flash on the iPhone. All I can tell you is that Adobe apparently submitted a prototype for approval, and it resulted in the battery life being reduced to 30 minutes. Presumably that was the battery life while viewing websites using Flash, and not the phone in general. Steve said in the past he doesn't want a light version of Flash, he wants the full version.

I'd equally say that if Adobe was genuinely not "lazy", and was interested in optimizing Flash for OS X, Flash would be on the iPhone by now. It's a little better on Windows, but I can tell you first hand that the OS X version of Flash is horrible. It's not just that it uses CPU resources, it actually reduces the battery on my MacBook Pro, a device which I am sure is more powerful than a mobile and and has a bigger battery. As a result, on my 4 year old MacBook Pro I get 3 hours of battery life while doing other tasks or playing video on VLC or most other players, but this suddenly gets reduced to 1 hour and something if I am playing video in Flash! Not to mention the Flash player constantly crashes. Apple built a sandbox for Flash in their latest operating system, so it doesn't crash the browser or the tab, only the Flash player. It's that bad.

nmesisca

Matt Bauer wrote: »

I'd love to see Flash on the iPhone. All I can tell you is that Adobe apparently submitted a prototype for approval, and it resulted in the battery life being reduced to 30 minutes. Presumably that was the battery life while viewing websites using Flash, and not the phone in general. Steve said in the past he doesn't want a light version of Flash, he wants the full version.

I'd equally say that if Adobe was genuinely not "lazy", and was interested in optimizing Flash for OS X, Flash would be on the iPhone by now. It's a little better on Windows, but I can tell you first hand that the OS X version of Flash is horrible. It's not just that it uses CPU resources, it actually reduces the battery on my MacBook Pro, a device which I am sure is more powerful than a mobile and and has a bigger battery. As a result, on my 4 year old MacBook Pro I get 3 hours of battery life while doing other tasks or playing video on VLC or most other players, but this suddenly gets reduced to 1 hour and something if I am playing video in Flash! Not to mention the Flash player constantly crashes. Apple built a sandbox for Flash in their latest operating system, so it doesn't crash the browser or the tab, only the Flash player. It's that bad.

i dont know.. I watch flash videos on my Atom netbook and never crashed, never had a single issue with it. As multiple people have said, its not flash that is particularly buggy, its the implementation the developers make of it.
CPU% also hovers around 70%. on a netbook. with integrated intel GMA.
more than acceptable.

as for the reasons why its not on the ipxxxxx.. if it was in it, you think people would download games from the appstore or go for the flash freebies on the web?

plus the interview Adobe's CEO gave a couple days ago didnt say anything about a prototype or battery life in the order of 30min.
do you have a link for that by any chance?

Matt Bauer

nmesisca wrote: »

CPU% also hovers around 70%. on a netbook. with integrated intel GMA.
more than acceptable.

as for the reasons why its not on the ipxxxxx.. if it was in it, you think people would download games from the appstore or go for the flash freebies on the web?

plus the interview Adobe's CEO gave a couple days ago didnt say anything about a prototype or battery life in the order of 30min.
do you have a link for that by any chance?

Most flash games I have played still rely on the metaphor of a mouse cursor, rollovers, etc, and are not optimized for a touchscreen user interface. I admit that may be a chicken and egg situation, but still, existing Flash games largely assume the user has a mouse or traditional pointing device. Most of the games I have from the App store were free. I am not sure that's Apple's reason, it seems speculative at best.

As far as the prototype reducing the battery life to about 30 minutes. While I am not currently affiliated with Apple in any way, I was told this by an ex-colleague who is based in Cupertino. I have no way to say if the information is true, it tallies with my experience of Flash on the Mac, it reducing battery life on my MacBook Pro very significantly. I have no reason to believe that my friend would be making it up.

Again, I would absolutely love to see Flash on the iPhone, and I hope Adobe and Apple can figure out a way to do it without impacting battery life.

nmesisca

Matt Bauer wrote: »

Most flash games I have played still rely on the metaphor of a mouse cursor, rollovers, etc, and are not optimized for a touchscreen user interface. I admit that may be a chicken and egg situation, but still, existing Flash games largely assume the user has a mouse or traditional pointing device. Most of the games I have from the App store were free. I am not sure that's Apple's reason, it seems speculative at best.

As far as the prototype reducing the battery life to about 30 minutes. While I am not currently affiliated with Apple in any way, I was told this by an ex-colleague who is based in Cupertino. I have no way to say if the information is true, it tallies with my experience of Flash on the Mac, it reducing battery life on my MacBook Pro very significantly. I have no reason to believe that my friend would be making it up.

Again, I would absolutely love to see Flash on the iPhone, and I hope Adobe and Apple can figure out a way to do it without impacting battery life.

if the 30minute battery life was true then the Hero would last what.. 15 minutes?
:rolleyes:

interesting reading here
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/analysis/1590419/flash-saviour-universe

Matt Bauer

nmesisca wrote: »

if the 30minute battery life was true then the Hero would last what.. 15 minutes?
:rolleyes:

Which is exactly why the Hero does not feature the full version of Flash, and only comes with the light version. Apple has said in the past they want the full version of Flash on the iPhone, not the light version, because they believe the light version does not give a good enough experience. When I'm running the full version of Flash on my 4 year old MacBook Pro, battery life is literally reduced by a factor of 3! I get 1 hour instead of 3 hours. While 70% of CPU usage on a netbook with GMA graphics might be acceptable, I don't believe the same holds true for a mobile.

nmesisca

Matt Bauer wrote: »

Which is exactly why the Hero does not feature the full version of Flash, and only comes with the light version. Apple has said in the past they want the full version of Flash on the iPhone, not the light version, because they believe the light version does not give a good enough experience. When I'm running the full version of Flash on my 4 year old MacBook Pro, battery life is literally reduced by a factor of 3! I get 1 hour instead of 3 hours. While 70% of CPU usage on a netbook with GMA graphics might be acceptable, I don't believe the same holds true for a mobile.

Hero doesnt feature the full version because there wasnt one when it came out.
can you tell me why iphone dont have the same light version then??
surely that would be better then the blue lego block.

Android phones, as much as symbian phones and winmos will be getting it soon enough (from my sources actually sooner than we were thinking).

and from an extract from the interview with adobe CEO CKevin Lynch ..

"We are now on the verge of delivering Flash Player 10.1 for smartphones with all but one of the top manufacturers. This includes Google’s Android, RIM’s Blackberry, Nokia, Palm Pre and many others across form factors including not only smartphones but also tablets, netbooks, and internet-connected TVs. Flash in the browser provides a competitive advantage to these devices because it will enable their customers to browse the whole Web. This is being accomplished via the Open Screen Project, where we are working with over 50 partners to make this a reality across a wide array of devices. For example, the recent Nexus One from Google will rock with a great experience in the browser with Flash Player 10.1."

I really doubt the whole mobile world is going to crash.

Matt Bauer

nmesisca wrote: »

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/analysis/1590419/flash-saviour-universe

The article pretty accurately sums up the state of Flash:

Flash is the railway station toilet of software. It smells of wee, is full of dodgy types, and we would not use it if we had a better choice. But it is better than nothing.

I truly hope Adobe and Apple can work it out and get Flash on the iPhone. But in order to do that, I think Adobe has to first invest some time making Flash better. While on a desktop or notebook computer, it isn't the end of the world if your plugin uses half of the CPU resources, on a mobile it is.

About Adobe, Steve said:

They are lazy, Jobs says. They have all this potential to do interesting things but they just refuse to do it. They don’t do anything with the approaches that Apple is taking, like Carbon. Apple does not support Flash because it is so buggy, he says. Whenever a Mac crashes more often than not it’s because of Flash.

I think that holds true about Adobe. I have been using Adobe Photoshop, now at version 11 as part of CS4, since Photoshop 3.0. During that time, it's become more and more buggy and unstable. They keep adding features, but keep adding bugs as well. To me, it's starting to look like Adobe is becoming the next Quark.

Matt Bauer

nmesisca wrote: »

Hero doesnt feature the full version because there wasnt one when it came out.
can you tell me why iphone dont have the same light version then??
surely that would be better then the blue lego block.

Android phones, as much as symbian phones and winmos will be getting it soon enough (from my sources actually sooner than we were thinking).

The reason there wasn't one when it came out because Adobe couldn't make it work on a mobile without crapping the battery. The reason the iPhone doesn't have the light version is because Steve wants to have it run the full version, he said so himself. It's kind of telling that Android still does not have Flash, and will only be getting it soon.

nmesisca

Matt Bauer wrote: »

The article pretty accurately sums up the state of Flash:


I truly hope Adobe and Apple can work it out and get Flash on the iPhone. But in order to do that, I think Adobe has to first invest some time making Flash better. While on a desktop or notebook computer, it isn't the end of the world if your plugin uses half of the CPU resources, on a mobile it is.

About Adobe, Steve said:


I think that holds true about Adobe. I have been using Adobe Photoshop, now at version 11 as part of CS4, since Photoshop 3.0. During that time, it's become more and more buggy and unstable. They keep adding features, but keep adding bugs as well. To me, it's starting to look like Adobe is becoming the next Quark.

so if it doesnt crash on Windows but crashes on Mac it has to be Adobe's fault???
ROFL

Matt Bauer

nmesisca wrote: »

and from an extract from the interview with adobe CEO CKevin Lynch ..

"We are now on the verge of delivering Flash Player 10.1 for smartphones with all but one of the top manufacturers. This includes Google’s Android, RIM’s Blackberry, Nokia, Palm Pre and many others across form factors including not only smartphones but also tablets, netbooks, and internet-connected TVs. Flash in the browser provides a competitive advantage to these devices because it will enable their customers to browse the whole Web. This is being accomplished via the Open Screen Project, where we are working with over 50 partners to make this a reality across a wide array of devices. For example, the recent Nexus One from Google will rock with a great experience in the browser with Flash Player 10.1."

That's happening in the future. It will be interesting to see how well it works and how much longer it takes, considering the empty promises they've made regarding Flash in the past. And I've used Flash, including to author content, since the Macromedia days.

nmesisca

Matt Bauer wrote: »

That's happening in the future. It will be interesting to see how well it works and how much longer it takes, considering the empty promises they've made regarding Flash in the past. And I've used Flash, including to author content, since the Macromedia days.

you wont wait for long.

Matt Bauer

nmesisca wrote: »

so if it doesnt crash on Windows but crashes on Mac it has to be Adobe's fault???
ROFL

You obviously have no idea about what you are talking about. I would suggest this thread be locked as there is no point having a discussion with someone who does not know what he is talking about. :rolleyes:

As I have said before, I very truly hope Adobe and Apple can work it out, and bring a version of Flash to the iPhone that will run all, if not most, Flash content without significantly affecting battery life. A netbook is one thing, but if I can't make a phone call anymore because a Flash game ran down my battery, I would not be a happy camper. I am quietly confident Adobe will start taking things a little bit more seriously, and invest in doing interesting things and making Flash better. If they don't, Microsoft Silverlight and HTML5 will run them out of business.

I hope Adobe don't become the next Quark.

Bluefoam

Matt Bauer wrote: »

You obviously have no idea about what you are talking about. I would suggest this thread be locked as there is no point having a discussion with someone who does not know what he is talking about. :rolleyes:

As I have said before, I very truly hope Adobe and Apple can work it out, and bring a version of Flash to the iPhone that will run all, if not most, Flash content without significantly affecting battery life. A netbook is one thing, but if I can't make a phone call anymore because a Flash game ran down my battery, I would not be a happy camper. I am quietly confident Adobe will start taking things a little bit more seriously, and invest in doing interesting things and making Flash better. If they don't, Microsoft Silverlight and HTML5 will run them out of business.

I hope Adobe don't become the next Quark.

I think you are possibly a little naive about their motives...

Matt Bauer

Bluefoam wrote: »

I think you are possibly a little naive about their motives...

You might quite possibly be right about that, perhaps I am a little naive about their motives, but perhaps you are being a little paranoid about their motives... I think when the iPhone was first announced in January 2007, and went on sale that summer, mobile Flash was a mess. The light version was practically useless. I know because I had the latest €500 Symbian smartphone at the time, and Flash Light was so useless it was beyond a joke. On the other hand, the full version was (and to some degree is) a huge resource hog, to the point where you couldn't make it run on a mobile. I think Adobe was lazy, and failed to address these problems. As a result, who knows, maybe the relationship soured.

nmesisca

HTC Desire with Adobe flash 10.1 (also working on Nexus)
..and getting closer to Hero.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/21/htc-desire-rom-shoehorns-htc-sense-and-flash-10-1-onto-the-nexus/

(warning, exposes to the real internet) :rolleyes:

Matt Bauer

nmesisca wrote: »

HTC Desire with Adobe flash 10.1 (also working on Nexus)
..and getting closer to Hero.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/21/htc-desire-rom-shoehorns-htc-sense-and-flash-10-1-onto-the-nexus/

(warning, exposes to the real internet) :rolleyes:

"I've used the desire rom for a day now. It has live wallpapers. Flash, however, is just HTC's Flash Lite. It is compatible with flash 10.1, but doesn't utilize hardware acceleration. It is rather unusable for viewing video, playback is choppy."

Flash 10.1 will supposedly run well on Tegra 2, but I don't know when that will be out. I think Adobe has been sleeping at the wheel, but they've woken up recently and are now doing what they can to make Flash run well on mobile devices. I wouldn't be surprised if they succeed because they know it's important for the future of Flash.

Head The Wall

So whats going to happen when Flash runs on all the smartphones and doesn't run the battery down.

Whose face will the egg be on?

Matt Bauer

Head The Wall wrote: »

So whats going to happen when Flash runs on all the smartphones and doesn't run the battery down.

Whose face will the egg be on?

Adobe will have shown that they have woken up to the fact that mobile Flash has sucked for years, and have now invested the resources to make it run better. Helped by the fact that mobile devices are getting faster every day. The simple fact of the matter is that for the past few years, mobile Flash has not worked well.

So there won't be egg on anyones face. I think the biggest surprise here is that it is taking them so long, when they should have known that the market is moving towards mobile devices.

I installed the latest Flash 10.1 beta on my MacBook Pro a week ago, and it is clear by the improvement that Adobe are finally investing more resources and energy in making Flash better. That does not change the past, and it still remains to be seen how Flash will do in the future.

I'm a huge proponent of PDF, by the way. Adobe make a lot of great products, though in recent years I've seen them go downhill, copying the business practices of Quark in their professional software. And we all know what happened to Quark.

nmesisca

Matt Bauer wrote: »

Adobe will have shown that they have woken up to the fact that mobile Flash has sucked for years, and have now invested the resources to make it run better. Helped by the fact that mobile devices are getting faster every day. The simple fact of the matter is that for the past few years, mobile Flash has not worked well.

So there won't be egg on anyones face. I think the biggest surprise here is that it is taking them so long, when they should have known that the market is moving towards mobile devices.

I installed the latest Flash 10.1 beta on my MacBook Pro a week ago, and it is clear by the improvement that Adobe are finally investing more resources and energy in making Flash better. That does not change the past, and it still remains to be seen how Flash will do in the future.

I'm a huge proponent of PDF, by the way. Adobe make a lot of great products, though in recent years I've seen them go downhill, copying the business practices of Quark in their professional software. And we all know what happened to Quark.

i still say flash lite on the Hero is more than enjoyable. for sure beats not having it at all. so what could be the obstacles to having the same on, say, the iThingy, I dont really understand.
if hero's battery lasts one full day with flash enabled i dont see the issue.

Matt Bauer

The Web is going to be moving away from using a proprietary wrapper like Flash to render videos. That won't happen this year or even next year, but it is going to happen over time. Imagine a Web where you needed a proprietary wrapper to display a JPEG picture, because your web browser cannot display pictures itself. Today, that's what most websites that use Flash use it for: to display videos.

Where I continue to see Flash as being relevant is for games and applications, which simply cannot be done in HTML4 or even HTML5. Adobe is now finally seeing mobile devices as a priority. I am simply saying that they should have seen mobile devices as a priority sooner.

Matt Bauer

nmesisca wrote: »

i still say flash lite on the Hero is more than enjoyable. for sure beats not having it at all. so what could be the obstacles to having the same on, say, the iThingy, I dont really understand.
if hero's battery lasts one full day with flash enabled i dont see the issue.

Steve Jobs told shareholders back in 2008 why Flash Lite isn't on the iPhone:

Jobs believes that the desktop version of Flash runs too slowly on the iPhone, the cellphone version (Flash Lite) of Flash isn't functional enough, and “there’s this missing product in the middle” that would run fast enough for the iPhone while retaining enough functionality.

So I feel it comes down to a philosophical issue. The only reason Flash Lite isn't there is because Steve doesn't think it's functional enough. What I can't understand is why they don't just allow Adobe to make their own stand-alone Flash App that can link into the browser. That way, they don't have to endorse it, and if a user sees a Flash game on a website, they can just click on it to open it in the "Adobe Flash App" or whatever it would be called.