HTC Hero - Adobe Flash

nmesisca

Matt Bauer wrote: »

The Web is going to be moving away from using a proprietary wrapper like Flash to render videos. That won't happen this year or even next year, but it is going to happen over time. Imagine a Web where you needed a proprietary wrapper to display a JPEG picture, because your web browser cannot display pictures itself. Today, that's what most websites that use Flash use it for: to display videos.

Where I continue to see Flash as being relevant is for games and applications, which simply cannot be done in HTML4 or even HTML5. Adobe is now finally seeing mobile devices as a priority. I am simply saying that they should have seen mobile devices as a priority sooner.

so for the next couple of years is the blue brick the only thing you want to see on webpages? there are HUGE licensing issues around h264 video.

Matt Bauer

nmesisca wrote: »

so for the next couple of years is the blue brick the only thing you want to see on webpages? there are HUGE licensing issues around h264 video.

Of course I want to see Flash on the iPhone, and if you look back, I said before I want to see Flash on the iPhone. I am simply stating the reasons why that has not happened so far. I hope that changes.

As far as licensing issues around h.264, while it is an open format unlike Flash that anyone can implement, albeit not open source, there may be some licensing fees for browser companies after 2016. By the way, on many websites Flash is simply a wrapper around h.264. So it does not "fix" these licensing issues, it simply moves them from Microsoft, Mozilla, Google and Apple to Adobe. GIF and JPEG I believe are also open formats, but not open source. There were huge licensing issues around them as well.

Head The Wall

Do you really believe this has nothing to do with Apple charging for most of their apps. What about in 2012 when HTML5 is a standard, there'll still be some issue where the sheep will have to keep buying apps from Apple

Matt Bauer

Head The Wall wrote: »

Do you really believe this has nothing to do with Apple charging for most of their apps. What about in 2012 when HTML5 is a standard, there'll still be some issue where the sheep will have to keep buying apps from Apple

I feel you may be a bit paranoid.

Bluefoam

Head The Wall wrote: »

Do you really believe this has nothing to do with Apple charging for most of their apps. What about in 2012 when HTML5 is a standard, there'll still be some issue where the sheep will have to keep buying apps from Apple

Matt Bauer wrote: »

I feel you may be a bit paranoid.

I think this has everything with apple protecting its app environment & revenue streams.

Matt Bauer

Bluefoam wrote: »

I think this has everything with apple protecting its app environment & revenue streams.

That seems rather far fetched and paranoid, especially given they have told investors the App Store is running only slightly above break-even, and why most of the Apps that people "buy" are free. I doubt Flash games, at least in their current form, could truly compete with native games. Now I am not saying it might not be a reason, though unlikely, but there is little evidence to suggest that it would be the main reason. On the other hand, there is evidence to suggest that if Adobe had taken mobile Flash more seriously, it would have been on the iPhone. Adobe are only recently beginning to take mobile Flash seriously.

While I can't speak for other users, the only game I paid for during the last 12 months was €2.99 for The Secret of Monkey Island. The other games I got were free.

Bluefoam

Matt Bauer wrote: »

That seems rather far fetched and paranoid, especially given they have told investors the App Store is running only slightly above break-even, and why most of the Apps that people "buy" are free. I doubt Flash games, at least in their current form, could truly compete with native games.

While I can't speak for other users, the only game I paid for during the last 12 months was €2.99 for The Secret of Monkey Island. All the other games I got were free.

I never mentioned apple making any money from paid apps. I said they are protecting their app environment & revenue streams. Apple use their usp's to leverage sweat deals with content providers. As soon as this is opened up, they loose the key selling point for their hardware business, which is currently worth billions. So even though the app store only generates limited revenue for apple directly, it makes them billions, indirectly...

nmesisca

Bluefoam wrote: »

I never mentioned apple making any money from paid apps. I said they are protecting their app environment & revenue streams. Apple use their usp's to leverage sweat deals with content providers. As soon as this is opened up, they loose the key selling point for their hardware business, which is currently worth billions. So even though the app store only generates limited revenue for apple directly, it makes them billions, indirectly...

yep. thats about it, in a nutshell.

Matt Bauer

So now I understand there's this conspiracy theory surrounding Flash on the iPhone. While I am not saying you are entirely wrong, I do think you are being a bit paranoid.

Head The Wall

Matt Bauer wrote: »

So now I understand there's this conspiracy theory surrounding Flash on the iPhone. While I am not saying you are entirely wrong, I do think you are being a bit paranoid.

I will say you are being naive, when do companies ever do anything for the benefit or their customers. Take a look at the iPad for example. It does diddly squat with out buying something from Apple. Look at all the different dongles you need to connect anything to it. e.g. VGA adapter, a USB camera adapter (which gives you one plain USB connection, though it apparently only works for importing photos), a USB to SD adapter, and an included USB power adapter.


On the other hand look at the other smartphones with mini USB and removeable batteries.

Matt Bauer

Head The Wall wrote: »

I will say you are being naive.

Perhaps I am being a little naive, but your conspiracy theories are a little far out there. Like I said, I am not saying you are entirely wrong. You are being a bit paranoid though.

nmesisca

Matt Bauer wrote: »

Perhaps I am being a little naive, but your conspiracy theories are a little far out there. Like I said, I am not saying you are entirely wrong. You are being a bit paranoid though.

I m not sure we are all paranoid then?
you're confusing a conspiracy theory with "business". not allowing flash was a business decision on the part of Apple. it hurts their bottom line. and limits the user experience. all of this would have been avoided with a preference button that says "enable/disable flash".
if the user exeperience on the Hero and on Atom netbooks is satisfying, there is no reason why it shouldnt be the same on apples hardware.

Matt Bauer

nmesisca wrote: »

I m not sure we are all paranoid then?
you're confusing a conspiracy theory with "business". not allowing flash was a business decision on the part of Apple. it hurts their bottom line. and limits the user experience. all of this would have been avoided with a preference button that says "enable/disable flash".
if the user exeperience on the Hero and on Atom netbooks is satisfying, there is no reason why it shouldnt be the same on apples hardware.

The user experience on the Hero is not satisfying, at best it's better than nothing, and Atom netbooks generally don't play full screen 720p Flash video for up to 10 hours without needing to be recharged. Flash on Tegra2-based smart phones is said to run very smoothly, but that's in the future.

What evidence do you have about Flash hurting the App Store if it were available? The only thing I can see here is that they've told investors they want to add it, but they want Adobe to develop a new version of Flash that's more full-featured than the lite version, but lighter on resources than the full version. Something in the middle.

You're coming across as paranoid. Again, perhaps you are not entirely wrong, but it does not make a lot of sense.

Head The Wall

Matt Bauer wrote: »

You might quite possibly be right about that, perhaps I am a little naive about their motives, but perhaps you are being a little paranoid about their motives...

Matt Bauer wrote: »

I feel you may be a bit paranoid.

Matt Bauer wrote: »

That seems rather far fetched and paranoid, especially given they have told investors the App Store is running only slightly above break-even, and why most of the Apps that people "buy" are free.

Matt Bauer wrote: »

So now I understand there's this conspiracy theory surrounding Flash on the iPhone. While I am not saying you are entirely wrong, I do think you are being a bit paranoid.

Matt Bauer wrote: »

Perhaps I am being a little naive, but your conspiracy theories are a little far out there. Like I said, I am not saying you are entirely wrong. You are being a bit paranoid though.

Matt Bauer wrote: »

You're coming across as paranoid. Again, perhaps you are not entirely wrong, but it does not make a lot of sense.

There's only one person in this thread who is paranoid. Nobody else has mentioned the word of conspiracy theories apart from yourself. It's like deja vu with this thread. Talk about going around in circles

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055830476&highlight=itsyourmoney

Matt Bauer

You are giving Apple far too much credit. Did you know that the decision not to have Flash on the iPhone far predates even the App Store?

You seem to be implying that the only reason the iPhone does not have Flash is the App Store. What evidence do you have to support that?

I'm not the one voicing paranoid theories as fact here.

Head The Wall

Matt Bauer wrote: »

You are giving Apple far too much credit. Did you know that the decision not to have Flash on the iPhone far predates even the App Store?

You seem to be implying that the only reason the iPhone does not have Flash is the App Store. What evidence do you have to support that?

I'm not the one voicing paranoid theories as fact here.

Apple are not going to come out and say they don't support Flash because they want to rip off all their purchasing customers from the App store. They are not stupid

Also I'm not implying anything, if Flash can run properly on all other smartphone platforms except the iPhone then what does that say. (Not fully there yet I know but not far off)

Excerpt from Wired Magazine

In the UK, two customers complained that Apple was falsely advertising the iPhone in a TV commercial by saying “all the parts of the internet are on the iPhone” when the handset does not support Flash. The UK’s Advertising Standards Authority deemed the ad misleading and pulled the ad.

In November 2008, iPhone developers told Wired.com they did not foresee a full Flash experience appearing on the iPhone at any point. The iPhone developers’ terms-of-service agreement prohibits Flash from appearing on the iPhone.

“An Application may not itself install or launch other executable code by any means, including without limitation through the use of a plug-in architecture, calling other frameworks, other APIs or otherwise,” reads clause 3.3.2 of the iPhone SDK agreement. “No interpreted code may be downloaded and used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple’s Published APIs and built-in interpreter(s).”

Previously, iPhone programmers also pointed out that supporting the Flash framework would open a backdoor for Flash apps to appear on the iPhone, which could conflict with Apple’s approval guidelines for its App Store. Third-party software that Apple would prohibit from the App Store, such as apps containing malicious code, could possibly make it onto the iPhone via Flash.

Also, Flash apps could pose competition with Apple’s App Store. And while the App Store continues to flourish, recently exceeding two billion downloads served, there’s no economic incentive for Apple to rush to deliver a full Flash experience, said Scott Meinzer, co-creator of iPhone development house Tap Tap Tap.

Read More http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/10/iphone-flash/#ixzz0gMzOHZsv

Matt Bauer

Head The Wall wrote: »

Apple are not going to come out and say they don't support Flash because they want to rip off all their purchasing customers from the App store.

If the App Store is running just above break-even, and Apple is a hardware company, how would they benefit from "ripping off all their purchasing customers from the App store"?

nmesisca

so straight from the horse's mouth...

test of adobe flash 10.1 on Nexus One.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/24/flash-10-1-might-not-be-a-battery-hog-on-android/

6% battery gone in 17minute video playback.

more than acceptable.

unless you're an iPad that is.

Head The Wall

Update on the flash issue


Adobe’s Mike Chambers, principal product manager for the Flash platform, said the company will halt future development on plans to bring Flash apps to Apple’s iPhones.



http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/smartphones/?p=679&tag=nl.e019