genuine timber frame building

davele

Hi,

ive seen plenty of examples of timber frame construction in Homebond but all with an added external outerleaf of brick/ block to hide this inner leaf. What if I want to build in timber frame and really show the house as a timber construction - a timber post and beam structure and outer layer of timber cladding on battens etc - including vapour and breather membranes.
Is this construction suitable in our windy wet climate? with 200-250mm insu. added between the posts can it stay warm? and meet b. reg standards.
its a technique that I see in buildings thru.out northern Europe and Germany, but here??
I presume its faster, cheaper and env. sound given the use of a sustainable product.
anybody any experience with this construction especially along the west coast - or sucess stories that have kept out the driving rain and stayed warm?

justflow1983

The exterior layer of block is unnecessary. In my opinion it actually is a hindrance to the good vapour diffusion that a timber building needs to stay dry, and is an unnecessary use of materials, labour, and embodied energy.

You can build timber clad buildings in Ireland, although over time they will look weathered. This is simply visual, the actual structure will remain sound. There are also several ways of attaching render to a timber frame building, with or without a drainage cavity.

Here is information regarding timber construction, specific to Ireland:
http://www.woodspec.ie/iopen24/

davele

Thats pretty much what I wanted to hear.
It will take careful detailing and a contractor that knows how to work with timber- but can be done it seems.
if thermal and waterproofing aspects can be covered then Im happy.
the exterior - a timber rainscreen or cladding can be treated over time.
thanks for the reaasurance.

justflow1983

Anytime. Feel free to get in touch if you have any questions, I deal with timber frame quite a bit.

CJhaughey

There is already a manufacturer in Ireland who has built 100's of houses that have no external block leaf, they are based in Galway and if you need to know more PM me.

justflow1983

The Irish Marine Institute is a mostly timber building that is in one of the most unforgiving places in the world with regard to wind and moisture. It was built by the OPW and as far as I know has been a successful building.

CJhaughey

justflow1983 wrote: »

The Irish Marine Institute is a mostly timber building that is in one of the most unforgiving places in the world with regard to wind and moisture. It was built by the OPW and as far as I know has been a successful building.

Not really that great, I know people that work there and it is a bit of a disaster TBH.

justflow1983

Good to know, Ciaran O'Connor talks about it constantly as a success, I never really followed up.

sydthebeat

Ive worked on a sip building that had cement board external. absolutely no problems at all with it.

'standard' timber frames which take breathability seriously should be looking at internal boarding of fermacell or sasamox and external cladding of cement board, whether aquapanel or durock. cost is the main determining factor as i think aquapanel can only be finished in that companies own render.

an intelligent vapour control layer should be used, not a vapour barrier.

justflow1983

syd, was the cement board used as a rainscreen with a ventilated cavity behind it or placed directly onto the structure?

sydthebeat

yes, there was the sub structure, then a vapour control layer, the treated battens to create the cavity, then the cement board.

i originally wanted battens and then counter battens to ensure cross ventilation, but budget and client went with just battens. The finish was part render, part cedar.

Mellor

Sorry for the late delay, but I'm surprized Griffner Colite were never mentioned. They are exactly the construction refered to. (since closed down, but the system is available elsewhere)

Glulam post and beams, rockwool infil, render outside and ferma cell inside. Obviously additonal water and vapour layers also. Some of their designs were quite good, I must confess to have mentally stole a window product/detail for use at a later date.

leinsterdude

Hi, looking to get a timber frame builder in around border area, I see loads, any feedback on some ?
Thanks.

Spannerman7

I've only just spotted this thread and you are describing my house as below.

Siberian Larch glue lam frames, 200mm rockwool slabs inset. Going from outside it is made up from the following.
30mm pressure treated T&G+V Cladding, 40x40 vertical battons, 30mm air gap top and bottom sealed with mesh against insects, high quality breather membrane and all joints sealed with breather tape,12mm T&G, pannels, vapour barrier (Ty**k) all joints sealed with tape, internal battons,plasterboard.
I am at internal stage at the moment and are considering adding more insulation internally to the outside walls between the battons, the overhang keeps the outside very dry, if timber can breath and dry out it will last a long time, I did not like the idea of a block outer leaf.
I got the kit from a swiss company, pressure treated the external timber here and got local builders who mostly do timber frame construction. I did the shed/garage first about 3 yrs ago and used it for storage. the product is outstanding, all the timber is from siberia where the company set up a manufacturing base in russia. I went and saw an example of one which has been up in Ireland for the past 23 yrs, it's still perfect bar visual aging colour wise. They use tripple glazing as standard and all the internal structure is shown off as it is all traditional joints and huge beams. The roof structure is like this.
Purlins 220x450mm glue lam, rafters 140x140mm glue lam, 20mm finished T&G, membrane, 50x100 horizontal beams filled with rockwool slabs, 50x50 vertical timbers filled with rockwool slabs,this gives a quilting effect, membrane, 40x40 vertical battons, 40x40 horizontal slate battons, slates.
So from inside all the purlins, rafters and T&G is the finish look.
Did I mention I love timber and proper engineering, I'm an Engineer by trade.

leinsterdude

Hi, what did u do there to keep it as soundproof as possible ?

beyondpassive

Spannerman, is that polythene under the cladding at the bay window?.

Spannerman7

No, it's a breather membrane, the building breathes from the outside, re; soundproofing I have not done the flooring yet, there is a rebate in the joists to recieve T&G/Plasterboard then rockwool slab on top of this, this will bring the level up to the top of the joists, next a sound barrier and then 30mm floorboards (supplied), all internal walls have 150mm rockwool filled partition walls.

tfer

If you (or I) were to build a timber framed 2 storey house and clad the outside in either aqua panel or cement board or whatever system you prefer and plaster over it, what happens when the floor joists shrink? do these systems have a way of preventing the external plaster from cracking, or, if you (or I) are building this way do you have to use the engineered joists? By the way, beautiful house spannerman

sas

tfer wrote: »

If you (or I) were to build a timber framed 2 storey house and clad the outside in either aqua panel or cement board or whatever system you prefer and plaster over it, what happens when the floor joists shrink? do these systems have a way of preventing the external plaster from cracking, or, if you (or I) are building this way do you have to use the engineered joists? By the way, beautiful house spannerman

The cement panel board systems specify a movement bead at the middle floor junction to prevent render cracking.

It's typicall a white plastic horizontal bead that runs around the house. In alot of cases it's not very attractive at all!!!

tfer

that doesn't sound very nice at all, thanks for rapid reply sas

jozi

Have you looked into solid timber construction? Although not available in Ireland (as far as I know) it looks good. Depending on the floor/wall build up the acoustic and thermal properties are effected. They take a rainscreen like any other construction method mentioned above.

tfer

Have decided to go the stick frame route jozi, never saw the solid timber frame before and couldn't find find a whole pile of info on it either

FunkyCoW

CJhaughey wrote: »

Not really that great, I know people that work there and it is a bit of a disaster TBH.

The Marine Institute is not timber framed but has a steel frame attached to RC cores. The outside is mainly clad in Sto render and has Iroko planks and window frames

about2build

In cost terms alone what would be saved by using an exterior grade building board with expanded metal mesh and render applied outside as opposed to putting up a layer of blocks, filling cavity etc??? Would love to go timber frame or actually looking at the sips at moment but the cost is prohibitive

FunkyCoW

look up the Sto or Weber web pages for their insulated render systems - they come complete with a bonding mesh. Both systems can be fixed to cement particle boards or blockwork.

I've put both systems up now, and would opt for Sto, but they are a bit dearer than Weber

mlumley

I am thinking of building a wood house on the lines of Walter Swgal. His designs were used in a seris on grand design. Trying to find the episode of 4 player. His designs are all wood with cladding on the outside of the house and is designed to be cheap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnT1huKTmmU the program in full.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQsOWs9QHxI youll find a revisit here.