Chelsea -v- Arsenal Match Thread SS1 Sunday 4PM

OPENROAD

**** it

IvySlayer

That's the game.

Rekop dog

Well and trully a preverbial two horse race now.

Arsenal could well be dragged into this battle royal for 3rd/4th place now.

When is it Liverpools turn to bend them over and give them a good seeing to?

herbieflowers

Wednesday!

OPENROAD

Rekop dog wrote: »

Arsenal could well be dragged into this battle royal for 3rd/4th place now.

When is it Liverpools turn to bend them over and give them a good seeing to?

Christ, surely we can beat Liverpool

patrickc

Rekop dog wrote: »

Well and trully a preverbial two horse race now.

Arsenal could well be dragged into this battle royal for 3rd/4th place now.

When is it Liverpools turn to bend them over and give them a good seeing to?

wednesday..

well done Chelsea, Arsenal couldnt score in a brothel..

Johner

GET THE **** IN LADS.

JPA

Very very poor from Arsenal.
They've been bad for 4 games in a row now.

Mr Alan

Openroad, you may wanna wind that neck in a little. We're doing alright now and have been comfortably better than Arsenal for the last few years. Arrogance like that may not bode well

OPENROAD

Mr Alan wrote: »

Openroad, you may wanna wind that neck in a little. We're doing alright now and have been comfortably better than Arsenal for the last few years. Arrogance like that won't bode well

heat of the moment

PHB

Arsenal desperately suffering due to the lack of a stirker. System isn't working without one. Big mistake not to sign one in the window imo, the league challenge is over and imo, its unlikely they can challenge in the CL without somebody there.

flahavaj

OPENROAD wrote: »

Christ, surely we can beat Liverpool

Your cockiness is laughable after the way Arsenal have been shamed two weekends in a row tbh.

Liverpool are on a better run of form than your lot!

RandolphEsq

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Anyone who watched today's game can see how we missed Van Persie - of course we'd have a chance with him in the side. If United lost Rooney for the whole season, they would be in the same situation as Arsenal, or maybe even worse.

Unlikely, as Arsenal have a fairly average defence at best compared to United's solid defence. The midfield for United is far more tenacious than Arsenal's so the team wouldn't be bad without Rooney

OPENROAD

flahavaj wrote: »

Your cockiness is laughable after the way Arsenal have been shamed two weekends in a row tbh.

Liverpool are on a better run of form than your lot!

The cockiness of the OP was laughable that we would be stuffed by Liverpool, but maybe yourself and Mr Alan did not see that?

Well actually Arsenal have played well but have lacked a striker.

And as I said it was said in the heat of the momet, so calm down.

JPA

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Anyone who watched today's game can see how we missed Van Persie - of course we'd have a chance with him in the side. If United lost Rooney for the whole season, they would be in the same situation as Arsenal, or maybe even worse.

But I'd be fairly sure United would have got in a replacement in January if rooney was injured.

herbieflowers

Didn't Arsenal pick up a heap of points immediately after RVP's injury?

PHB

herbieflowers wrote: »

Didn't Arsenal pick up a heap of points immediately after RVP's injury?

Yeh they did, but if you had watched them play those games, you could see that they were struggling. They won those games just, and evntually it caught up to them. Missing Van Persie is like missing Rooney or Torres.

A Primal Nut

RandolphEsq wrote: »

Unlikely, as Arsenal have a fairly average defence at best compared to United's solid defence. The midfield for United is far more tenacious than Arsenal's so the team wouldn't be bad without Rooney

Don't agree. With Van Persie up front; we'd have Arshavin, Fabregas, Song, Diaby, thats much better than Carrick, Fletcher and the ageing Scholes and Giggs; although Nani is starting to play well.

A Primal Nut

herbieflowers wrote: »

Didn't Arsenal pick up a heap of points immediately after RVP's injury?

Yes, we have enough good attacking players that we cope well against the weaker teams. But his injury one of the reasons we have lost all four games against Chelsea/United, the top teams.

I agree United would have went out and bought if they lost Rooney - its a pity Wenger doesn't spend on short-term solutions, sometimes you need to in order to win trophies.

flahavaj

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Don't agree. With Van Persie up front; we'd have Arshavin, Fabregas, Song, Diaby, thats much better than Carrick, Fletcher and the ageing Scholes and Giggs; although Nani is starting to play well.

Yet one of those midfield's has won the title every year they've played together, the other has won jack sh*t. Go figure.

The day they starting handing out medals for being great on paper will be the day Arsenal finally win something tbh.

leninbenjamin

herbieflowers wrote: »

Didn't Arsenal pick up a heap of points immediately after RVP's injury?

Yup. But they were against much weaker teams, who frankly we were luycky not to concede much more against.

I don't buy into the lack a striker line. It's defence where the problem is, always has been. As a team, they play far too high up the pitch, the fullbacks in particular like to rampage forward. This leaves the CBs vulnerable, and Arsenal don't have a sweeper to compensate like United do through Rio or Chelsea do through Carvalho.

Drogba's goal's, despite his individual brilliance who I'm not trying to take away from, were easily defendable. Clichy on both occasionas was at fault. He left the back post for the first for some bizarre reason (Arsenal almost always mark the posts on corners), and on the second he committed to the tackle too early and let Drogba in behind to get the space he needed to shoot.

Arsenal should have been better in front of goal considering the chances they made, but that's not why they lost the match.

lordgoat

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Yup. But they were against much weaker teams, who frankly we were luycky not to concede much more against.

I don't buy into the lack a striker line. It's defence where the problem is, always has been. As a team, they play far too high up the pitch, the fullbacks in particular like to rampage forward. This leaves the CBs vulnerable, and Arsenal don't have a sweeper to compensate like United do through Rio or Chelsea do through Carvalho.

Drogba's goal's, despite his individual brilliance who I'm not trying to take away from, were easily defendable. Clichy on both occasionas was at fault. He left the back post for the first for some bizarre reason (Arsenal almost always mark the posts on corners), and on the second he committed to the tackle too early and let Drogba in behind to get the space he needed to shoot.

Arsenal should have been better in front of goal considering the chances they made, but that's not why they lost the match.

I'd agree with this. I also think Almunia is not up to it. I thought at times today he was shaky and during the united match woeful.

Mr Alan

i agree wit the poster above who said the defence is the major problem.

herbieflowers

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Yup. But they were against much weaker teams, who frankly we were luycky not to concede much more against.

I don't buy into the lack a striker line. It's defence where the problem is, always has been. As a team, they play far too high up the pitch, the fullbacks in particular like to rampage forward. This leaves the CBs vulnerable, and Arsenal don't have a sweeper to compensate like United do through Rio or Chelsea do through Carvalho.

Drogba's goal's, despite his individual brilliance who I'm not trying to take away from, were easily defendable. Clichy on both occasionas was at fault. He left the back post for the first for some bizarre reason (Arsenal almost always mark the posts on corners), and on the second he committed to the tackle too early and let Drogba in behind to get the space he needed to shoot.

Arsenal should have been better in front of goal considering the chances they made, but that's not why they lost the match.

You were the one who told me that, actually!

I didn't see today's game, but it was patently clear against Man Utd, at least, that the defence was the major issue. They carved out enough openings, I felt, that on another day would've gone in. In the end, they were simply torn apart by Man U's counter-attacks.

Defending more as a unit seems to be the problem, not necessarily putting the ball in the back of the net.

JPA

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Yup. But they were against much weaker teams, who frankly we were luycky not to concede much more against.

I don't buy into the lack a striker line. It's defence where the problem is, always has been. As a team, they play far too high up the pitch, the fullbacks in particular like to rampage forward. This leaves the CBs vulnerable, and Arsenal don't have a sweeper to compensate like United do through Rio or Chelsea do through Carvalho.

Drogba's goal's, despite his individual brilliance who I'm not trying to take away from, were easily defendable. Clichy on both occasionas was at fault. He left the back post for the first for some bizarre reason (Arsenal almost always mark the posts on corners), and on the second he committed to the tackle too early and let Drogba in behind to get the space he needed to shoot.

Arsenal should have been better in front of goal considering the chances they made, but that's not why they lost the match.

I don't think it's completely the defence that are at fault. The problem is the midfield is quite open especially when Arsenal seem so desperate to score on every occasion therefore they all bomb forward, the attack breaks down, they're all out of position, 2 passes and they are under attack.
There is a lack of discipline in the team as a whole and Gallas and Vermaelen can't do it all themselves.
A lot of defences will crumble if they are put under constant pressure and frequently caught on the back foot like Arsenal are.

leninbenjamin

JPA wrote: »

I don't think it's completely the defence that are at fault. The problem is the midfield is quite open especially when Arsenal seem so desperate to score on every occasion therefore they all bomb forward, the attack breaks down, they're all out of position, 2 passes and they are under attack.
There is a lack of discipline in the team as a whole and Gallas and Vermaelen can't do it all themselves.
A lot of defences will crumble if they are put under constant pressure and frequently caught on the back foot like Arsenal are.

You're right in some respects, I'm beginning to think the 4-3-3 is the root cause of everything, We just have too many players too high up the pitch at any given time. It's almost too successful in terms of ball retention. It makes it difficult to use the likes of Walcott's or Arshavin's pace because we've teams pinned so far back and there's no space in behind for them to exploit.

I do think though that for every goal we've conceded over the past month there's been a major individual error by one the back 4 (although it's typically Clichy or Traoré tbh). I don't think they can be fully absolved of their responsibilities, at the very least lack of communication seems to be a big part of the problem when it comes to leaving space behind them.

L'prof

Mr Alan wrote: »

Openroad, you may wanna wind that neck in a little. We're doing alright now and have been comfortably better than Arsenal for the last few years. Arrogance like that may not bode well

And maybe you, yours!

Liverpool have a good team but, I'd be very disappointed if we didn't get a point in the Emirates. Torres and van Persie missing is a big loss for both teams but, I think Liverpool will miss Torres more.

Mr Alan

i'd be happy wit a point too. there was nothing arrogant about wat i said.

OPENROAD

Mr Alan wrote: »

i'd be happy wit a point too. there was nothing arrogant about wat i said.

By the way my initial post was a response to the fact that someone posted that we would be stuffed on Wednesday in case you missed that post

FatherTed

Arsenal will be fine, in fact I wouldn't count them out of the title race just yet. They have the easier run-in of the 3 contending teams and they could easily going on a good run beating the so called lesser teams. It's against decent teams they have problems but after Wednesday, their schedule suddenly gets a whole lot easier.

Soby

FatherTed wrote: »

Arsenal will be fine, in fact I wouldn't count them out of the title race just yet. They have the easier run-in of the 3 contending teams and they could easily going on a good run beating the so called lesser teams. It's against decent teams they have problems but after Wednesday, their schedule suddenly gets a whole lot easier.

I think a loss on wednesday and that will be your title race over if not today

Pepe LeFrits

Comfortably better me hole, Alan.

Mr Alan

well we finished comfortably ahead of yous in the league.

Pepe LeFrits

Last season. Season before that, the situation was reversed. Arsenal and Liverpool have been extremely evenly matched over the last few years.

Mr Alan

2005-2006, Liverpool 15 points ahead.
2006-2007, level
2007-2008, Arsenal 5 points ahead.
2008-2009, Liverpool 14 points ahead.

I don't really wanna get into a petty row, but I certainly view Liverpool as being better than Arsenal over the last few years. The last league, we were comfortably better, i didnt think that was really up for discussion. Even during all those years, I've always viewed Arsenal as a huge challenge & been nervous about playing them-which is why i found it quite irritating that someone would scoff at the idea of Liverpool having the ability to beat Arsenal.

OPENROAD

Mr Alan wrote: »

2005-2006, Liverpool 15 points ahead.
2006-2007, level
2007-2008, Arsenal 5 points ahead.
2008-2009, Liverpool 14 points ahead.

I don't really wanna get into a petty row, but I certainly view Liverpool as being better than Arsenal over the last few years. The last league, we were comfortably better, i didnt think that was really up for discussion. Even during all those years, I've always viewed Arsenal as a huge challenge & been nervous about playing them-which is why i found it quite irritating that someone would scoff at the idea of Liverpool having the ability to beat Arsenal.

But you wouldn't scoff at the idea of Liverpool hammering Arsenal

L'prof

Mr Alan wrote: »

2005-2006, Liverpool 15 points ahead.
2006-2007, level
2007-2008, Arsenal 5 points ahead.
2008-2009, Liverpool 14 points ahead.

I don't really wanna get into a petty row, but I certainly view Liverpool as being better than Arsenal over the last few years. The last league, we were comfortably better, i didnt think that was really up for discussion. Even during all those years, I've always viewed Arsenal as a huge challenge & been nervous about playing them-which is why i found it quite irritating that someone would scoff at the idea of Liverpool having the ability to beat Arsenal.

How about you have a look back and see what was scoffed at. Then, maybe have a look back at our head to head over those seasons and see how "superior" Liverpool have been. He wasn't dismissing Liverpool, just that a Pool fan was expecting Liverpool to dispose of us in similar fashion to United and Chelsea in the Emirates.

Mr Alan

i'd laugh at the idea of someone saying Liverpool were gonna hammer Arsenal just as much as an Arsenal fan being bemused at the idea of Liverpool being a challenge to them in a match.

Pepe LeFrits

Mr Alan wrote: »

2006-2007, level
2007-2008, Arsenal 7 points ahead.
2008-2009, Liverpool 14 points ahead.
2009-2010, Arsenal 5 points ahead with game in hand

See, very even.

Mr Alan

this season isn't finished. i've expected most of the season for their to be nothing between the two at the end of the season, and i stand by that.

FatherTed

Soby wrote: »

I think a loss on wednesday and that will be your title race over if not today

Not my team sonny.

L'prof

I never expect good results against the bigger clubs in the league, which includes Liverpool. This season has been disappointment in that respect though. Could have been so different.

Mr Alan wrote: »

i'd laugh at the idea of someone saying Liverpool were gonna hammer Arsenal just as much as an Arsenal fan being bemused at the idea of Liverpool being a challenge to them in a match.

Fair enough, we'll leave it at that so.

OPENROAD

Mr Alan wrote: »

i'd laugh at the idea of someone saying Liverpool were gonna hammer Arsenal just as much as an Arsenal fan being bemused at the idea of Liverpool being a challenge to them in a match.

Fair enough you must have missed the post that I replied to then otherwise you would have known why I made that post


Bring on Wednesday night

Pepe LeFrits

Mr Alan wrote: »

this season isn't finished. i've expected most of the season for their to be nothing between the two at the end of the season, and i stand by that.

Well I expect Arsenal to be stronger than Liverpool over the next five years, but that's not really relevant either when we're talking about what's behind us, is it?

Mr Alan

OPENROAD wrote: »

Fair enough you must have missed the post that I replied to then otherwise you would have known why I made that post


Bring on Wednesday night

I may have! I'm posting on my mobile lately, tis a bit of a nightmare

Barr

Well played Chelsea tonite , they needed a result after the game against hull.

SlickRic

f*ck me, Drogba is scary when in the mood.

nobody better. and i mean nobody is better.

Clichy and Almunia are not up to it at all. it's awful how far Clichy's fallen. Almunia, we don't need to go into again.

i said at the halfway point that it'll be United's, and i stand by that. as much as i hate saying it. momentum is everything, and utd are the experts at building it, and they are are on quite a roll.

it will be immensely close though.

Pepe LeFrits

Regarding Clichy. I posted this on Arsenal Mania, and evidently it needs to be posted here too:

The first goal. People are saying he moved off his position on the far post. No. Admittedly this is his normal position, but today, he was positioned roughly 3 yards in front of the near post for every corner. This was clearly a prematch tactical decision that backfired. Why was he standing on the backpost as the corner was about to be taken? I don't know. Force of habit I guess. However he was where he was supposed to be (3/4 yards in front of the near post) by the time the ball came into the box. It's not his fault Vermaelen completely lost Terry, or that Song failed to stay with Drogba. However, both being popular players at the moment, it isn't hard to see why Gael is getting blamed.

The second goal. Song plays it to Arshavin, and abandons his DM position to burst up to the left hand corner of the box in expectation of a return pass. Arshavin loses the ball. Cesc tries to win the ball back immediately, but is narrowly beaten to it. It's played forward to Lampard. Diaby is still in a left wing position, and unable to break down the counter. Lampard advances with the ball. At this point Vermaelen is in the LB position marking Drogba. Gallas is slightly ahead, while Gael is sprinting back, with Malouda(?) over his shoulder. Vermaelen then pulls in to a CB position, leaving Drogba unmarked. Vermaelen appears to give Clichy a shout to mark Drogba, but it's only a split second before Lampard plays the ball to Drogba. Clichy and Vermaelen then make half hearted efforts to tackle the Ivorian, he sidesteps them and smashes it in.

Verdict: It wasn't brilliant defending by Clichy, but golden-boys Vermaelen and Song were ultimately at fault. Factor that into your ratings.

Otherwise Clichy flew up and down the left flank all game, offering an overlap, occasionally beating a man and generally doing a good shift.

DazMarz

Arsenal sorely missed RVP and even Eduardo today. Nicklas Bendtner, while not brilliant, should have been introduced much earlier, as he is a big target man to have in the box and could challenge aerial ball better against the likes of Terry, Carvalho and Ivanovic.

All aside...Delighted with the result!

Dave!

Shocking defending for both goals, and no cutting edge up front despite all the possession.