Mount Callan Windfarm Project

Birdnuts

Akrasia wrote: »

Do those who object to the wind turbines also object to the ugly commercial forestry that dominates the landscape in that area?

Do those who think a wind farm will 'reduce the value of their home' think that the dominant form of commercial activity (commercial forestry) has no effect on their property price?

'.

These developers should be restricted to areas already damaged by this commercial forestry(I agree with your opinions on this form of state subsidized vandalism of our uplands). No wind farms should be allowed on NHA/SAC land or areas of outstanding natural beauty as is the case in the UK AFAIK.

Jim Martin

ckc123 wrote: »

Yes - part of the mountain is an NHA - the turbines will also cross a NAtional Scenic Route, and spill outside of the designated area into residential areas.

This is about failed developers looking for the next cash cow.....it is also worth a lot of money to a cash strapped county council...........they must all be delighed with themselves.

http://www.npws.ie/en/NHA/002397/

WolfeIRE

ckc123 wrote: »

Angel Fire,

only a few members of the community stand to benefit from this.

30 families in fact. A percentage of the profits will be go towards developing community facilities.

The nearest house is just under a kilometre from the turbines. This is the exception.

Mount Callan is not a residential area. It is designated as a suitable location for wind farm developments.

If you care so much about Mt Callan why do want to sell your house i.e. the value of my house is going down comments.

And yes I do live near Mount Callan (,iltown side) and I will see the wind farms. They don't bother me at all and no I am not benefiting from the proposed development.

In fact, if I could afford it I would buy a mini turbine for my back garden. Green is the future.

I understand some of the concerns raised here. Ultimately this wind farm will go ahead however.

REASON: An Taisce agree it's a good idea, the Council's County Development Plan promotes the idea, the Green Environment and Energy Ministers support it, the Limerick Clare Energy Agency Supports it, all Councillors support it, and businesses and sports clubs in the Miltown area support it.

Are they all wrong, misguided?

Perhaps but highly unlikely.

Sham Squire

I think it's kind of funny that all the greenies are so strongly in favour of massive steel and cement structures being erected on sites of natural beauty for profit making purposes.
If you do really want to build the things there's plenty of ****-holes in this country that could be filled with wind factories (that's what they should be called but "farms" sounds so much greener). Take the whole of Offaly for example. But no, they're being erected up and down breathtaking west coastal areas.
I hope all the greenies are proud when they look around in 10 years time and find every bit of beautiful scenery dotted with giant metal turbines that won't ever generate enough power to service this countrys needs. We'll be swamped in wind factories and still buying nuclear generated power from the brits. Good work greenies!

Jim Martin

The Mt. Callan wind farm has been referred to An Bord Pleana for appeal:

http://www.clarecoco.ie/planning/planning-applications/search-planning-applications/FileRefDetails.aspx?file_number=109&LASiteID=0

In their submission, the DOEHLG stated (my emboldening):

"it is to be noted that recent research indicates that the foraging activity of hen harriers can be adversely affected at a distance of as much as 250m from individual wind turbines". I feel that this is a very important point which has repercussions for any wind farm applications in areas where Hen Harriers nest & forage (this also applies to the following):

Another wind farm application near Mt. Callan (Coore/Shanaway - Clare Co. Co. Planning File Ref. No. 10720) has been thrown back at the applicants due to inadequate/insufficient provision of data - hardly an auspicious beginning!

http://www.clarecoco.ie/planning/planning-applications/search-planning-applications/FileRefDetails.aspx?file_number=10720&LASiteID=0

Birdnuts

Jim Martin wrote: »

The Mt. Callan wind farm has been referred to An Bord Pleana for appeal:

http://www.clarecoco.ie/planning/planning-applications/search-planning-applications/FileRefDetails.aspx?file_number=109&LASiteID=0

In their submission, the DOEHLG stated (my emboldening):

"it is to be noted that recent research indicates that the foraging activity of hen harriers can be adversely affected at a distance of as much as 250m from individual wind turbines". I feel that this is a very important point which has repercussions for any wind farm applications in areas where Hen Harriers nest & forage (this also applies to the following):

Another wind farm application near Mt. Callan (Coore/Shanaway - Clare Co. Co. Planning File Ref. No. 10720) has been thrown back at the applicants due to inadequate/insufficient provision of data - hardly an auspicious beginning!

http://www.clarecoco.ie/planning/planning-applications/search-planning-applications/FileRefDetails.aspx?file_number=10720&LASiteID=0

I also read last week that its being appealed by other parties too:)

Jim Martin

Birdnuts wrote: »

I also read last week that its being appealed by other parties too:)

Yes, some have gone in (see Clare Co. Co. Planning File Ref. No. 10720) and I was going to make a submission but I heard last Fri. that Clare Co. Co. threw it back at the applicants because they had illegally erected an anemometery measuring mast on private land without permission! People who made submissions needn't have bothered but I thing they will get their €20 back!

No doubt they will try again until their money runs out!

patgill

ABP has now given permission for this project to go ahead.

whatisayis

patgill wrote: »

ABP has now given permission for this project to go ahead.

Just goes to prove that nothing was learnt from the bad planning mistakes made during the housing boom. West Clare is now destroyed from a tourism point of view. And please don't tell me that Bord Failte say tourists like wind farms. Is there even one brochure produced by them that shows a wind farm as a scenic highlight?

The Etape Hibernia cycle race was held in this area last weekend and the route was specifically chosen because of its unspoilt scenic beauty. In fact Clare is rated as one of the top ten scenic cycling routes in the world. Or used to be until now.

My sympathy goes out to those who will now find themselves living in the middle of an industrial electricity generating station with all the health implications that entails. The few who live in the area who will profit from this will be able to afford to leave while the others will now find their houses unsellable.

willow tree

These windfam debates are very emotive.. i thought this was interesting
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/tv/2011/05/windfarm-wars.shtml


are the same problems arising if they were built at sea?

Jim Martin

The gov't seem to be breaking rules in the book so far as European legislation on habitat protection is concerned with this project, just waiting now for them to be taken to the European Court. I was very disturbed to hear that 2 Hen Harriers were recently shot in the area! Again, waiting to hear of legal action actually being taken. Why, oh why, is this country so full of very fine words - but so little action?

patgill

whatisayis wrote: »

Just goes to prove that nothing was learnt from the bad planning mistakes made during the housing boom. West Clare is now destroyed from a tourism point of view. And please don't tell me that Bord Failte say tourists like wind farms. Is there even one brochure produced by them that shows a wind farm as a scenic highlight?

The Etape Hibernia cycle race was held in this area last weekend and the route was specifically chosen because of its unspoilt scenic beauty. In fact Clare is rated as one of the top ten scenic cycling routes in the world. Or used to be until now.

My sympathy goes out to those who will now find themselves living in the middle of an industrial electricity generating station with all the health implications that entails. The few who live in the area who will profit from this will be able to afford to leave while the others will now find their houses unsellable.

Well a search of the Discover Ireland site took less than .1 of a second to come up with the following.
http://www.discoverireland.ie/Activities-Adventure/kerry-alternative-technology/13822
http://www.discoverireland.ie/Activities-Adventure/park-to-limavady/79947

Windfarms are even used to give directions on the Discover Ireland site

On your right you will see the blades of three wind turbines - but you turn left. Follow the coast for.....
http://www.discoverireland.ie/Activities-Adventure/lub-dun-fearbhai-looped-walk-inis-meain/86139

And it wasn't hard to find http://www.myguideireland.com/corneen-wind-farm

Every activity known to man has opponents, even it seems the Etape Hibernia cycling event in Perthshire.

"When the organisers came along to sell this thing to the community it was of vital importance to them that it be thought of as a trial and not a race. I don't think there can be any doubt that it is a race."
While condemning the actions of saboteurs, Mr Hounam said the weekend's drama indicated that there remains a strength of feeling locally.


He believes the closure of roads interferes with the area's fragile seasonal economy and deprives locals of freedom of movement.
"People are just gobsmacked that in supporting the event Perth and Kinross Council has continually ignored the views of people in this area," he said. "I have a tourism business here in Highland Perthshire and on Sunday we did no more business than we would do on a normal weekday.
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/Perthshire/article/14002/opponents-of-etape-caledonia-vow-to-step-up-pressure-to-have-it-declared-illegal.html

Surely your opposition is over the top and subjective.

This is a local initiative with both local and national benefits, fulfilling the objectives of both Clare County Council and the Irish Government.

patgill

Jim Martin wrote: »

The gov't seem to be breaking rules in the book so far as European legislation on habitat protection is concerned with this project, just waiting now for them to be taken to the European Court. I was very disturbed to hear that 2 Hen Harriers were recently shot in the area! Again, waiting to hear of legal action actually being taken. Why, oh why, is this country so full of very fine words - but so little action?

Jim, I would be glad to debate EU environmental law and its application in Ireland.

But first please flesh out the reason your post attempts to imply that the deaths of 2 Hen Harriers are somehow connected to Mount Callan windfarm.

MOSSAD

Akrasia wrote: »

Do those who object to the wind turbines also object to the ugly commercial forestry that dominates the landscape in that area?

QUOTE]

What do you know of the history of forestry in the area? Fact is that the father of private irish forestry, Robert Tottenham, of Mount Callan, showed the forestry world how to grow world class commercial forestry timber on his land.
Robert, when he took over the estate was on the point of giving up trying to make a living from farming. He just couldn't do it with that type of land. With the advice of Prof. Tom Clear of he created a superb forest estate, and instigated a novel way of thinning his plantations, and made people rethink their approach to forestry in this country.
The thousands of farmers and landowners who have forestry holdings can thank Robert for his influence with governments over the years and his explanation that inorder to keep people on the land, a system of supports had to be in place, but that out of this would also come a valuable crop at the end of the rotation. You may have noticed a huge number of lumbertrucks on the roads over the past few years. This is due to the ability of this country not alone to be self supporting in timber but also to export it, and most of this timber is coming from privately owned plantations.
You know, beauty is highly subjective. I was struck some years back about Dubliners wailing about the cutting of the "pine forest" in the Dublin mountains-it was in fact mature/semi-mature sitka spruce. Also. Tottenham's thinning regime is such that it opens up the forest early on, allowing for development of an understorey, and it makes it wonderfully attractive for wildlife, especially woodcock. Perhaps it's time for you to don the wellies and maybe take a walk around the Mount Callan woods.

MOSSAD

whatisayis wrote: »

The Etape Hibernia cycle race was held in this area last weekend and the route was specifically chosen because of its unspoilt scenic beauty. In fact Clare is rated as one of the top ten scenic cycling routes in the world. Or used to be until now.

My sympathy goes out to those who will now find themselves living in the middle of an industrial electricity generating station with all the health implications that entails. The few who live in the area who will profit from this will be able to afford to leave while the others will now find their houses unsellable.

"UNSPOILT SCENIC BEAUTY"-right, I'll refer you to Mitchell's "Reading the Irish Landscape".
Health implications? More nonsense. In 1999 a 6 turbine windfarm was built in Lisroe, Kilmaley. The self-tyled Kilmaley Residents Action Group had claimed the following ill effects would occur-pregnant women would miscarry if they looked at the spinning blades; deformed calves would be born; the local water supply would be poisoned;tv signals would be permanenently disrupted; people would go mad from the noise...need I go on? Ten years on, there are MORE houses in the vicinity of the windfarm-kids of the objectors, oddly enough, and more tourists and day trippers stop by to park and watch the turbines.
The landowners of Mount Callan have a resource-it is not the Golden Vale-and finally there is a use to which they can put SOME of their land, and thus make a living.
I say to the objectors, if you want to "preserve" the land-whatever that means- put your money where your mouth is and offer to buy the land.
Smacks to me of nothing more than paternalism and undiluted Irish begrudgery.
I wish WestClare Renewables and all those farm families much success with their venture and look forward to watching the spinning blades from my place.

Atilathehun

Jim Martin wrote: »

The gov't seem to be breaking rules in the book so far as European legislation on habitat protection is concerned with this project, just waiting now for them to be taken to the European Court. I was very disturbed to hear that 2 Hen Harriers were recently shot in the area! Again, waiting to hear of legal action actually being taken. Why, oh why, is this country so full of very fine words - but so little action?

There are hen harriers dying nowadays, that never died before;)

Jim Martin

patgill wrote: »

Jim, I would be glad to debate EU environmental law and its application in Ireland.

But first please flesh out the reason your post attempts to imply that the deaths of 2 Hen Harriers are somehow connected to Mount Callan windfarm.

It could be in the interest of people who want the wind farm to say that there are no longer any Hen Harriers in the area!

Jim Martin

MOSSAD wrote: »

Akrasia wrote: »

Do those who object to the wind turbines also object to the ugly commercial forestry that dominates the landscape in that area?

QUOTE]

What do you know of the history of forestry in the area? Fact is that the father of private irish forestry, Robert Tottenham, of Mount Callan, showed the forestry world how to grow world class commercial forestry timber on his land.
Robert, when he took over the estate was on the point of giving up trying to make a living from farming. He just couldn't do it with that type of land. With the advice of Prof. Tom Clear of he created a superb forest estate, and instigated a novel way of thinning his plantations, and made people rethink their approach to forestry in this country.
The thousands of farmers and landowners who have forestry holdings can thank Robert for his influence with governments over the years and his explanation that inorder to keep people on the land, a system of supports had to be in place, but that out of this would also come a valuable crop at the end of the rotation. You may have noticed a huge number of lumbertrucks on the roads over the past few years. This is due to the ability of this country not alone to be self supporting in timber but also to export it, and most of this timber is coming from privately owned plantations.
You know, beauty is highly subjective. I was struck some years back about Dubliners wailing about the cutting of the "pine forest" in the Dublin mountains-it was in fact mature/semi-mature sitka spruce. Also. Tottenham's thinning regime is such that it opens up the forest early on, allowing for development of an understorey, and it makes it wonderfully attractive for wildlife, especially woodcock. Perhaps it's time for you to don the wellies and maybe take a walk around the Mount Callan woods.

I'm not an expert but my understanding is that the timber is not of very good quality and a lot of damage is done to the ground, water & habitat in the forestry area. Better to leave it as it was because of its value as mountain moorland & blanket bogland, for which Ireland is rightly world-renowned due to its scarcity in W.Europe!

MOSSAD

Jim Martin wrote: »

MOSSAD wrote: »

I'm not an expert but my understanding is that the timber is not of very good quality and a lot of damage is done to the ground, water & habitat in the forestry area. Better to leave it as it was because of its value as mountain moorland & blanket bogland, for which Ireland is rightly world-renowned due to its scarcity in W.Europe!

Timber from the area is sought after because it's known to top quality sitka and the treatment regime has probably been recorded and can be validated.
Do you have any idea of the benefits of afforestation? Beginning with shelter, the improvement to the fertility of the soil, paving the way for a mixture of conifers and broadleaves. Left to its own devices, wet rushy land will revert to scrubland -mostly sally/goat willow, and other trees like alder and oak will move in. However while this may be of great delight to the self styled environmentalist, it is NOT possible for the land owner to make a living from it. At the end of the day that's the most important thing, that the owner occupier can make a living from their land.
Now, please bear in mind that most people won't **** on their own doorstep-it doesn't make sense, but the paternalists out there can't seem to trust the ordinary farmer on that point.
Much of the blame should go to a system of forestry education which focused on a narrow range of tree species, for some very valid reasons, particularly because land to grow anything else was not available. The products of this education system now populate the Forest Service which is the policy and regulatory body for forestry so one is left with a limited vision of what is possible. It should be borne in mind that perhaps as many as 75% of UCD forestry graduates come from Dublin city, which speaks for itself.
With respect to growing broadleaves in Ireland, we have neither the tradition nor the available land to grow the QUALITY product needed. Nor indeed do we have a suitable climate-ther is too much wind, which limits growth and causes structural problems within the trees.
Since my place has been gradually afforested beginning in the 1970s, we have seen a massive increase in birdlife, red squirrel, otter, pine marten and of late deer have begun to move in. Bluebells have begun to move from their locations and expand along the tracks, areas of scrub, and broadleaf plantings. There are ponds created to serve both as a water source for fire fighting and as a habitat for frogs and newts-in fact I have counted up to 350 pairs of frogs at any one time. Duck and teal are now nesting, and even the harrier hunts over clearfelled areas.Yes, some diversity is gone, but left to its own devices, the fields would have gone to scrub.
Water problems can be solved by liming, by buffer zones and by species mixing.
My plantations now afford me many sizes of timber for the sawmills, firewood, gamebirds, shelter for my meadows and great aesthetic pleasure from looking at and walking through them.
One of the big problems is too many experts who may be academically proficient but unable to relate to the realities of what's on the ground.
I heard recently of a forest inspector, who believing that the mounding grains were too deep on a new site, insisted on the excavated soil being returned to the drains. If this is so, then this action would have caused tremendous water pollution and silting.
Finally, those who insist they know what's "best practice" tend to be state employees who cannot be fired for incompetence, are overpaid and pensioned to boot, essentially insulated against the realities trying to make a living.

patgill

Jim Martin wrote: »

I was very disturbed to hear that 2 Hen Harriers were recently shot in the area! Again, waiting to hear of legal action actually being taken.

It could be in the interest of people who want the wind farm to say that there are no longer any Hen Harriers in the area!

It never ceases to amaze me how vicious and mean spirited our so called conservation lobby can be, so your statement above does not surprise me.

I attended a seminar a few years ago organised by an anti windfarm group, one of the tactics offered by the speaker was based on the successful stroke pulled by Lyndon Johnson which first got Johnson elected to the US Congress, he told his campaign manager to inform the press that his opponent, a farmer, was in the habit of having sex with farmyard animals, despite the plea's of his wife and children. 'It's not true.' said his manager 'Of course it's not,' Johnson barked at him, 'but let's make the bastard deny it.' ... at the very least, our speaker informed us, it will waste their time and money denying any outrageous claims you make and if you throw enough muck, some of it will stick.

I wonder were you at this event as well ?

Jim, I suggest you make your thoughts on this matter known to NPWS and the Gardai.

The fact, is that the Hen Harrier management plan agreed between NPWS and the Mount Callan wind farm will be one of the pillars of conservation efforts for this species in Co Clare for the next few decades.

dr.fuzzenstein

Jim Martin wrote: »

The gov't seem to be breaking rules in the book so far as European legislation on habitat protection is concerned with this project, just waiting now for them to be taken to the European Court. I was very disturbed to hear that 2 Hen Harriers were recently shot in the area! Again, waiting to hear of legal action actually being taken. Why, oh why, is this country so full of very fine words - but so little action?

Don't farmers usually shoot anything they don't like?
Foxes, badgers, crows, falcons, stoats, pine martins, rabbits, dogs, cats, deer, eagles, well anything that isn't one of their animals. And why not a Hen Harrier while you're at it?
Don't see who else would shoot them.

MOSSAD

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Don't farmers usually shoot anything they don't like?
Foxes, badgers, crows, falcons, stoats, pine martins, rabbits, dogs, cats, deer, eagles, well anything that isn't one of their animals. And why not a Hen Harrier while you're at it?
Don't see who else would shoot them.

That posting shows exactly what hardworking land owners have to deal with-appalling ignorance.

Clareman

I've had enough of this thread now, it's just turning into a slagging match between people with different opinions, I also don't like people suggesting that a large section of Irish society get involved in illegal activities.