how to win the war on drugs...

def

[quote=[Deleted User];64347930]....supply creates its own demand.[/QUOTE]


drugs are an oddity ,yes a supply will "provoke" demand to a certain extent but this can easily be manipulated with a bit of commen sense , take for example heroin if every heroin addict was given heroin ,best quality ,for free or for very cheap who would buy black market heroin ?how would it compete with the nationalised market? and how would a seller find new customers? ,remember once someone becomes an addict they get it free, this completely gets rid of any incentive to supply ,supply only happens when their is a profit to be made ,so yes you could sell massively inferior product ,risk importing ,selling and sourcing customers but you would have to sell it for pennys or give it away free, but i very much doubt you could source heroin for a couple cents a kilo ,sell it on adding a few cents and be happy enough with your profit to do it again,the plastic the gram was wrapped in would be "worth" more than the drugs in it,

or not?

how would any black market product compete with the low price and superior quality of the ligitamite market ? once people are going to shops to buy recreational drugs it breaks the social system used now, and then sourcing customers becomes extremely difficult for any black market seller

def

Slugs wrote: »

take a deep breath and

....read it again

def

Dave! wrote: »

So the cops knew that internal affairs were setting them up?

sorry? is this a joke,id say there was a certain amount of racism and politics in the begining , the average gardai isnt tought to spot when their getting "set up" ,the arent even told their job is to protect the constitution,ensure public morality and order ,their taught to enforce the law which is not their jobs sole purpose

ScumLord

def wrote: »

amsterdam rules work ,sale to an under 18(16s a much better idea)

It wouldn't be a good idea to drop the age limit at all. Most studies show cannabis poses a much higher risk of developing some sort of serious side effect. I'm not that opposed to having an over 21 limit just to be on the safe side. Kids will still be able to get bits and pieces like they can with any drug and there's little that can be done to stop that it's almost like a right of passage to push the boundary's as a teenager but you've drastically reduced their exposure.

The "war on drugs" can't be won or lost, it's a ridiculous concept to start with.

def

cock robin wrote: »

Oddly enough I dont remember using my mouth closed or otherwise to communicate with you. As for the casm that is my mind, it has no relevance with regard to the matter in hand. As for calling me cock well all I can say is sticks & stones. Smoke away ya looney I can see it aint narrowed your mind at all. Anything learned from you definitely wont be worth creasing the lips to discuss with anyone. I aint the only one to diss your thread but oddly enough the only one you felt the need to have a go at which is cool. As you come from not ireland a land without capitol letters and filled with people with a poor command of the English language. Maybe you should run for goverment and let the people decide wether they want to live in an utopian society where drugs are everywhere. The million euro for all was posted in AH a forum for light hearted discussion and as such was intended to be humorous. But you had probably just taken your drugs and ya didn't get it. As for dont understand, people who have posted and read thousands of posts didn't get it either. Not only have drugs ruined your ability to type it has also left you incapable of putting into context your thought's. Hmm! I wonder what caused that. Sleep well and dream easy def but with any luck your supervised when you wake. Keep It Simple Stupid.

listen here ,very carefully ,im born and raised in ireland, i couldnt give a fe*k about how bad my spelling or typing is

if you cant attack any points on my idea dont attack me to make yourself feel better ,if you dont understand ask and i will elaborate,read all the posts first though,more than once maybe

you called yourself cock,,robin ,i just repeated ,, from reading what you've said on this site ,id say money is very important to you ,and material possesions ,this is not healthy ,love is all you need ,greed and so on ... not good ,love your fellow man ,assuming you saw my page what do you think of the prophecy of isiah? do you think it applys to you? i do


" As for dont understand, people who have posted and read thousands of posts didn't get it either." -what do you mean? thousands of posts?

Not only have drugs ruined your ability to type it has also left you incapable of putting into context your thought's. Hmm! I wonder what caused that. Sleep well and dream easy def but with any luck your supervised when you wake. Keep It Simple Stupid.

i dont think drugs have anything to do with my typing being poor ,lack of practice ,would be closer id say, good guess though, simple logic, as for putting my ideas into "context" ,if you cant understand ask,

and dont worry i will sleep very well ive been doin 12 hour shifts for the past 3 days and when i wake i will be under the watch of people i love

its a very complicated topic ,simple dosnt really come into it ,commen sence yes ,simple concepts yes ,but together it gets compicated, i expect opinions and ideas to be explained ,especially since this is supposed to be a debating forum

stupid people....thats a myth ,there are no stupid people ,just those never taught to learn for themselves or had negativity attached to the concept of learning

def

Pete M. wrote: »

And OP, proper punctuation helps you to put your message across in a manner more likely to persuade those on the fence that you are talking sense.

If I thought for a moment that smoking da 'erb would reduce my ability to communicate effectively, I'd smoke less.......;)

i dont want to persuade i want to provoke , dont i sound like an easy target?
i want to test ideas with others opinions,

ive only been typing a very short time ,spelling has never been very good but talking .... youll probably never know

i havent smoked in quite a while.....

def

ScumLord wrote: »

It wouldn't be a good idea to drop the age limit at all. Most studies show cannabis poses a much higher risk of developing some sort of serious side effect. I'm not that opposed to having an over 21 limit just to be on the safe side. Kids will still be able to get bits and pieces like they can with any drug and there's little that can be done to stop that it's almost like a right of passage to push the boundary's as a teenager but you've drastically reduced their exposure.

The "war on drugs" can't be won or lost, it's a ridiculous concept to start with.

yes studies done under prohibition , when the children smoke high strength THC herb , smoking every day all day is not good , it will retard certain aspects of brain development ,at 16-18 your brain is more or less developed and the damage wont be anything significant enough to warrent leaving them on the streets, it really comes down to the parents though ,if your going to abandon your kids on the streets by choice or nessecary absence you cant expect the rest of society to pick up the peices ,if you dont want your kid smoking pot tell them /dont give them money,if a kids sitting in a cafe smoking very low strength pot sold at a higher price or somthing,playing pool ,this is better than robbing cars and so on, do you want them sitting on your garden wall? smashing windows ect for fun, in a pub/cafe there are rules ,and reasons not to break them

the war on drugs bit is to get emotions goin,,, winning and losing ,,powerful notion , wars involve two sides ,, this war is a trench war,, got to try get people out in the open to take a shot,,,

recylingbin

Have we learned nothing from 'nam, man?
You can't win a war on drugs.

Arnold Layne

def wrote: »

to fight fire with fire with will ony burn the house down, that is to say if you use conventional methods of warfare to fight a unconvetional war you are bound for failure
the "war on drugs" is a war on supply and demand , each must be tackled with a seperate battle plan , on supply economic warefare must be waged and on demand psycological warfare must be used.

the suppy only exists because there is a demand ,this is the root cause of its existance ,even those who studied economics for the first class in secondary school and then changed subject ,should have been explained this .
as it is the most basic economic principle , and the reason most economists are displeased or disagree with the currently employed methods of takling this economic problem(drug use and supply).

to use economic war fare is to "steal" supply ,by either nationalisation(government controled distribution) or regulation/legalisation (regulated free market), the method applied should be carefully considerd,
take for example the method of nationalisation of the opiate "market" created in england by the second world war, if they had denyed the addicted returning troops morphine or any treatment it would have created
a sizeable black market ,however they did not and as a result the useage rates steadily dropped, the same method (of nationalisation )could be applied to irelands modernday heroin problem, stripping supply of demand ,fully ,
not just partially, by providing either opiates for the pennys it is truely worth or a more suitable substitute for example cannabis sativa indica which with high levels of CBD to THC reducing or preventing psychosis(cravings and so on) associated with
heroin withdrawl,and also offering those ,who so choose, abstinance based treatment.

when takling demand psycological warefare/tactics must be utilised ,more over create the illusion of choice (like in an election),and offer the safer "softer" drugs ,by introducing a free but highly regulated market system take for example cannabis ,"magic" mushrooms ,MDMA ,and certain stimulents
the prohibition of these(and all drugs) creates health problems which otherwise would not exist ,transient psychosis from cannabis is caused by a lack of choice in the market ,the association of high quality and high strength, when cannabis is bred for high THC percenage it is done so at the expence of CBD , if cannabis was properly regulated then consumers would be aware of the cannabinoid profile of a particular crop of a particular strain, they could choose to consume it or not ,most people i feel would choose not to consume such high strength herb regularly if they were made fully aware of the possible consequences ,
other negative effects would also be reduced for instance an age limit would prevent heavy useage amongst the most vunerable, which leads to a retardation of growth in the fronal lobe and over use of the CB 1 and 2,cannabinoid recepters affecting future/current metabilisim and immune system development,

with mushrooms it reduces the chance of picking and eating poisonus strains ,which can kill, however like cannabis psyclobe containing mushrooms do not kill however much is consumed and if used in a positive social setting rarely have negitive consequences ,and again prohibition causes psycological problems which
would otherwise not exist ,when on any hallucinagenic the mind is vunerable ,if for example you consider yourself or are given a vague impression you are considerd an outcast ,unloved ,unwanted within a very short period of time can become suicidal,leaping to your death ,unless someone proclaims they can fly or displayed a lack of understanding with regard to the laws of areodynamics this should be assumed ,

it could be said prohibition validates paranoia ,for are there not people "after" you ,or that consider you sub-human?

with MDMA (extacy)and stimulants such as "speed" or synthetic cocaine ,warnings and better purity and in some cases research would drasticly reduce health consequences.

if their was this choice or "illusion" of choice would their be a demand for poor quality black market produce? would there exist a demand to generate supply?

also consider the special qualitys of the irish drug market ,drug use is excepted (alcohol) even glamorised, all (most)illegal drugs are sourced from outside the country meaning the vast majority of cash involved leaves the country,(street dealers make pennys by comparison)
the newly created or accepted markets would generate ligitimate employment ,reducing dole lines and so on,generating taxes and reduce costs of healthcare due to lack of (wanted and required) information and poor purity ,aswell as eliminateing the costly tactics of "regulation" used currently by the gardai making their job safer and reducing the friction/aggrivation this "style" may cause in society tward them, creating a greater and wider respect for the law

would this not be far safer,cheaper and more humane?

please the idea is fresh and i am weary of war ,can anyone on anyside of the trenches voice their opinion on my notion of peace?

i am fully prepared to admit defeat if you can convince me....

Skinned up at the start and got lost. Hungry & horny now

cock robin

def wrote: »

listen here ,very carefully ,im born and raised in ireland, i couldnt give a fe*k about how bad my spelling or typing is

if you cant attack any points on my idea dont attack me to make yourself feel better ,if you dont understand ask and i will elaborate,read all the posts first though,more than once maybe

you called yourself cock,,robin ,i just repeated ,, from reading what you've said on this site ,id say money is very important to you ,and material possesions ,this is not healthy ,love is all you need ,greed and so on ... not good ,love your fellow man ,assuming you saw my page what do you think of the prophecy of isiah? do you think it applys to you? i do


" As for dont understand, people who have posted and read thousands of posts didn't get it either." -what do you mean? thousands of posts?




i dont think drugs have anything to do with my typing being poor ,lack of practice ,would be closer id say, good guess though, simple logic, as for putting my ideas into "context" ,if you cant understand ask,

and dont worry i will sleep very well ive been doin 12 hour shifts for the past 3 days and when i wake i will be under the watch of people i love

its a very complicated topic ,simple dosnt really come into it ,commen sence yes ,simple concepts yes ,but together it gets compicated, i expect opinions and ideas to be explained ,especially since this is supposed to be a debating forum

stupid people....thats a myth ,there are no stupid people ,just those never taught to learn for themselves or had negativity attached to the concept of learning

I feel great def surrounded by my money and material posessions. Your obviously not into material posessions or money and just lodge love in the auld love bank. Why bother working like a schmo 3x12 hour shifts sounds pretty grim to me. No wonder you want to be a drug lord, I'd say Tsar but you probably would have to look it up. Good to hear your under someone's "watch" when you wake. The issue is a simple one, you have managed to make it complicated. You dont feel that drugs have had an effect on your typing or spelling. Living in denial I think def. I let you have the last word so you feel empowered over me. Thanks for reading my other posts. I couldn't be bothered reading any more of your nonsense but I wish you all the best with your doomed to failure campaign for legal drugs.

def

cock robin wrote: »

I feel great def surrounded by my money and material posessions. Your obviously not into material posessions or money and just lodge love in the auld love bank. Why bother working like a schmo 3x12 hour shifts sounds pretty grim to me. No wonder you want to be a drug lord, I'd say Tsar but you probably would have to look it up. Good to hear your under someone's "watch" when you wake. The issue is a simple one, you have managed to make it complicated. You dont feel that drugs have had an effect on your typing or spelling. Living in denial I think def. I let you have the last word so you feel empowered over me. Thanks for reading my other posts. I couldn't be bothered reading any more of your nonsense but I wish you all the best with your doomed to failure campaign for legal drugs.

i work hard for money for food ,our house ,saving up for a farm etc, as i work i sing ,im thankful i have work ,no matter how grimy and difficult it is,

love bank ? you mean my soul ? yes this is exactly where the love goes and comes from, when im old i feel my life will be easier to feel good about knowing those around me werent there because of money ,slave tokens what ever you want to call it , valuing this over friends and family can only lead to poverty of the heart now or at the end of ones days,

i know excactly what a czar was ,and what a "drug czar" is supposed to be

please, unless you have a point to make about the topic or a question , then remain an observer ,

i "picked you" because ive grown weary of people butting in without a positive contribution to make ,feeling they must "attack" the OP ,because they cant understand or dont know why they disagree with my ideas, people saying things like..

Skinned up at the start and got lost. Hungry & horny now

are not releasing confusion with agression and so i leave them alone , however you did , if you have a question ask , if you disagree explain why
otherwise please remain an observer

sparkling sea

Prohibition ideals remain present within Irish public policy due to the culture of fear that surrounds drugs and much of the media refusing to differentiate between the harm caused by prohibition and the harm caused by drugs

If drugs which are known to be dangerous can be sold legally, then the state regulation of things such as food additives cannot justified. On the other hand, it could be argued that pharmaceuticals are strictly controlled and tested, whereas herbal remedies are not.

Doctors who are not pharmacists are often unaware of the potential dangers of combining conventional and alternative medicines, but there is no call for herbal remedies to be banned generally, only that for their quality and usage to be more carefully monitored

ScumLord

sparkling sea wrote: »

If drugs which are known to be dangerous can be sold legally, then the state regulation of things such as food additives cannot justified. On the other hand, it could be argued that pharmaceuticals are strictly controlled and tested, whereas herbal remedies are not.

These days "herbal" is a meaningless word. It's like when cocpops say they're now even more chocolatey.

They can say it because the word has little meaning and sparks a feeling of health in people.

cock robin

def wrote: »

i work hard for money for food ,our house ,saving up for a farm etc, as i work i sing ,im thankful i have work ,no matter how grimy and difficult it is,

love bank ? you mean my soul ? yes this is exactly where the love goes and comes from, when im old i feel my life will be easier to feel good about knowing those around me werent there because of money ,slave tokens what ever you want to call it , valuing this over friends and family can only lead to poverty of the heart now or at the end of ones days,

i know excactly what a czar was ,and what a "drug czar" is supposed to be

please, unless you have a point to make about the topic or a question , then remain an observer ,

i "picked you" because ive grown weary of people butting in without a positive contribution to make ,feeling they must "attack" the OP ,because they cant understand or dont know why they disagree with my ideas, people saying things like..


are not releasing confusion with agression and so i leave them alone , however you did , if you have a question ask , if you disagree explain why
otherwise please remain an observer

I shall continue to make a contribution whatever way I feel like def and wont be bullied by the likes of you. Your a nut dude. If you wanted serious discusson on the subject why pick AH. Not much of a serious nature is ever discussed here. There are plenty of experts on the pros and cons of drugs elsewhere on Boards. I didn't mean your soul either. But if ya wanna talk like Ned Flanders thats okiley dokiley with me. I did have an opinion on your piece. I thought it was b*llsh1te and I still do. What you really mean is unless I'm prepared to agree with you I should say nothing. Board's is for all and thank god the mods monitor everything and narrow minded single vision hypocrites like you are and will always be monitored. I hope you farm better than you crusade.

thirtythirty

def wrote: »

take for example heroin if every heroin addict was given heroin ,best quality ,for free or for very cheap who would buy black market heroin ?how would it compete with the nationalised market? and how would a seller find new customers? ,remember once someone becomes an addict they get it free, this completely gets rid of any incentive to supply

I'm unclear as to what your definition of "win the war" is.

At first I thought your proposed solutions were going to be a method whereby you were striving to achieve preventative measures against the consumption of, and thus resultant reactions to (and everything that goes in-hand with), the drugs themselves.

However the more you talk about things like the quoted above, I am beginning to come to the conclusion that your definition of "win the war", simply refers to removing control and profiteering from the drugs trade from criminal organisations by firstly taking away the organisation's monopoly of supply, and then saturating the market to such a point that margins are un-sustainable for said organisations, forcing them to exit the market.

So while you have succeeded in removing the criminals and black market, you have also increased the usage and availability of drugs, while simultaneously degrading barriers to adoption for new users such as risk, price and uncertainty.

I think our view on what "winning the war" actually results in differs greatly!

sparkling sea

ScumLord wrote: »

These days "herbal" is a meaningless word. It's like when cocpops say they're now even more chocolatey.

They can say it because the word has little meaning and sparks a feeling of health in people.

You are missing the point, herbal remedies can be extremely dangerous if combined with certain legal drugs, however they are still legal. Sparking healthy feelings means nothing if something is not proven to be healthy and very few herbal remedies have been scienitifically proved to be healthy.

sparkling sea

spottyelephant wrote: »

So while you have succeeded in removing the criminals and black market, you have also increased the usage and availability of drugs, while simultaneously degrading barriers to adoption for new users such as risk, price and uncertainty.

I think our view on what "winning the war" actually results in differs greatly!

Cigarettes are legal but they are still sold on the black market in many cases by criminals.

Why do you think the legalisation of drugs will led to increased usage, there is no evidence to suggest that this is true. It would allow for strict quality control which is desparately needed here, it would also allow for a greater study of the side effects of different drugs and it would allow the medical profession to have proper information when treating drug addicts.

def

sparkling sea wrote: »

On the other hand, it could be argued that pharmaceuticals are strictly controlled and tested, whereas herbal remedies are not.

Doctors who are not pharmacists are often unaware of the potential dangers of combining conventional and alternative medicines, but there is no call for herbal remedies to be banned generally, only that for their quality and usage to be more carefully monitored

herbal remidies are a very interesting notion ,at least the modern opinion or perception , how i think of this is " i give unto you all herbs baring seeds to use" , i much prefere to use a natural treatment to a "modern" treatment as in chemically created and patented drug , when i have an upset stomagh i drink a chamomile tea ,a headache then i make sure i have drank enough water ,and so on i have used cannabis oil to remove warts and a mole but i like my moles so i leave them there ,

with research all properties of herbs could be fully understood and utilised but there is a lot of money to be lost for companys that hold patents , treatments make more money than cures remember that, its a very important notion ,

all the people who understood the value of herbs (medicinally) and applied and advised for free were burnt alive a long time ago ,

if you want to talk about what i call modern medicine did you know that ionic colloidal silver is completely toxic to single celled organisims ?but completely non toxic to multi celled organisims(me and you)! bacteria and viri and so on cant breath in its presence (a free radical ,nano silver partical), i read about this and just couldnt belive it , then i said ill put this to the test , i had tonsillitis off and on since i was 14(and never had them removed ), as a result i assumed they were dormant in my tonsils, though it hadnt flared up in a while , i constucted a device to produce ionic colloidal silver (im a nano-partical researcher!) ,very simple realy and cheap including 15 euro worth of 99.9999% silver wire off ebay ,using distilled water warmed up a bit made this suspended ionic colloidal silver ,gargled it a few times drank a bit , and sure enough next morning i woke up swallowing glass , blisters ,the smell ,classic tonsillitis same as always except this time no docter or perscription drugs , just silver (and this moving magnetic feild generater,aslo very cheap/simple to make) normally it takes 10 days /2 weeks to "calm"me tonsillitus ,but i was better in 4 days! i think the silver put the lil buggers into the death throws (symptoms of any illness is your body fighting the invaders,the pain ,swelling and so on is the collateral damage),

i havent had it since but i havent gone to a doctor or gotten tested to make sure,

the moving magnetic feild generater works on the principle that when very small amounts/ weak stength electricity is applied to single celled organisms /toxin etc, it/they can no longer "hold on " (produce the enzyme to do so) ,and they "fall off" your cells (red blood cells and so on) as a result the can no longer reproduce ......

the feild generated by my device (i only followed blue prints) ,will penetrate a few inches enough to reach my tonsils ,


THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE ,THIS IS RESULTS OF MY OWN RESEARCH , CONDUCT YOUR OWN RESEARCH / ASK YOUR PRACTITIONER IF YOU HAVE AN EXISTING MEDICAL PROBLEM ,

youtube/google , bob beck , colloidal silver generater , magnetic pulser ,blood cleanser , cure for AIDs ,(bottled colloidal silver settles after a short time,bonds with plastic(free radical!!!) , purchasing it premade is pointless

i recomend doing your own research asking why and how is what seperates man from beast....

modern medicine ,its a new century....we have google!!!!

ScumLord

sparkling sea wrote: »

You are missing the point, herbal remedies can be extremely dangerous if combined with certain legal drugs, however they are still legal. Sparking healthy feelings means nothing if something is not proven to be healthy and very few herbal remedies have been scienitifically proved to be healthy.

It's just that the word herbal is meaningless, Tea is a herbal remedy. The word has no place in the conversation about chemical reactions inside the body.

That's not a dig at you, it's just the use of the word annoys me as it really tells you nothing and can mean anything.

sparkling sea

def wrote: »

herbal remidies are a very interesting notion ,at least the modern opinion or perception , how i think of this is " i give unto you all herbs baring seeds to use" , i much prefere to use a natural treatment to a "modern" treatment as in chemically created and patented drug , when i have an upset stomagh i drink a chamomile tea ,a headache then i make sure i have drank enough water ,and so on i have used cannabis oil to remove warts and a mole but i like my moles so i leave them there ,

with research all properties of herbs could be fully understood and utilised but there is a lot of money to be lost for companys that hold patents , treatments make more money than cures remember that, its a very important notion ,

all the people who understood the value of herbs (medicinally) and applied and advised for free were burnt alive a long time ago ,

if you want to talk about what i call modern medicine did you know that ionic colloidal silver is completely toxic to single celled organisims ?but completely non toxic to multi celled organisims(me and you)! bacteria and viri and so on cant breath in its presence (a free radical ,nano silver partical), i read about this and just couldnt belive it , then i said ill put this to the test , i had tonsillitis off and on since i was 14(and never had them removed ), as a result i assumed they were dormant in my tonsils, though it hadnt flared up in a while , i constucted a device to produce ionic colloidal silver (im a nano-partical researcher!) ,very simple realy and cheap including 15 euro worth of 99.9999% silver wire off ebay ,using distilled water warmed up a bit made this suspended ionic colloidal silver ,gargled it a few times drank a bit , and sure enough next morning i woke up swallowing glass , blisters ,the smell ,classic tonsillitis same as always except this time no docter or perscription drugs , just silver (and this moving magnetic feild generater,aslo very cheap/simple to make) normally it takes 10 days /2 weeks to "calm"me tonsillitus ,but i was better in 4 days! i think the silver put the lil buggers into the death throws (symptoms of any illness is your body fighting the invaders,the pain ,swelling and so on is the collateral damage),

i havent had it since but i havent gone to a doctor or gotten tested to make sure,

the moving magnetic feild generater works on the principle that when very small amounts/ weak stength electricity is applied to single celled organisms /toxin etc, it/they can no longer "hold on " (produce the enzyme to do so) ,and they "fall off" your cells (red blood cells and so on) as a result the can no longer reproduce ......

the feild generated by my device (i only followed blue prints) ,will penetrate a few inches enough to reach my tonsils ,


THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE ,THIS IS RESULTS OF MY OWN RESEARCH , CONDUCT YOUR OWN RESEARCH / ASK YOUR PRACTITIONER IF YOU HAVE AN EXISTING MEDICAL PROBLEM ,

youtube/google , bob beck , colloidal silver generater , magnetic pulser ,blood cleanser , cure for AIDs ,(bottled colloidal silver settles after a short time,bonds with plastic(free radical!!!) , purchasing it premade is pointless

i recomend doing your own research asking why and how is what seperates man from beast....

modern medicine ,its a new century....we have google!!!!

Your funny

sparkling sea

ScumLord wrote: »

It's just that the word herbal is meaningless, Tea is a herbal remedy. The word has no place in the conversation about chemical reactions inside the body.

That's not a dig at you, it's just the use of the word annoys me as it really tells you nothing and can mean anything.

I totally understand why annoys you but people don't seem to realise that almost all drugs are herbs.

def

ScumLord wrote: »

These days "herbal" is a meaningless word. It's like when cocpops say they're now even more chocolatey.

They can say it because the word has little meaning and sparks a feeling of health in people.

when reading advertisements or possible propaganda ,realise words are chosen very carefully ,

psychosis is an excellent example ,wiki it ...

how many learnt latin in school in this county ,any they dont say: "what are they talking about" , cranky woman @ that time of the month = hormone induced psychosis , if you smoked cannabis or drank 6 pints and didnt induce psychosis you would wantyour money back......

def

cock robin wrote: »

I shall continue to make a contribution whatever way I feel like def and wont be bullied by the likes of you. Your a nut dude. If you wanted serious discusson on the subject why pick AH. Not much of a serious nature is ever discussed here. There are plenty of experts on the pros and cons of drugs elsewhere on Boards. I didn't mean your soul either. But if ya wanna talk like Ned Flanders thats okiley dokiley with me. I did have an opinion on your piece. I thought it was b*llsh1te and I still do. What you really mean is unless I'm prepared to agree with you I should say nothing. Board's is for all and thank god the mods monitor everything and narrow minded single vision hypocrites like you are and will always be monitored. I hope you farm better than you crusade.

if you disagree explain why , other wise it wont be much of a debate okaly dokaliy?

def

spottyelephant wrote: »

I'm unclear as to what your definition of "win the war" is.

At first I thought your proposed solutions were going to be a method whereby you were striving to achieve preventative measures against the consumption of, and thus resultant reactions to (and everything that goes in-hand with), the drugs themselves.

However the more you talk about things like the quoted above, I am beginning to come to the conclusion that your definition of "win the war", simply refers to removing control and profiteering from the drugs trade from criminal organisations by firstly taking away the organisation's monopoly of supply, and then saturating the market to such a point that margins are un-sustainable for said organisations, forcing them to exit the market.

So while you have succeeded in removing the criminals and black market, you have also increased the usage and availability of drugs, while simultaneously degrading barriers to adoption for new users such as risk, price and uncertainty.

I think our view on what "winning the war" actually results in differs greatly!

the war on drugs is a ridiculus notion ,war can not be waged against a substance or plant ,

with certain drugs (heroin)they would reduce users in time as it would be only available to those addicted , increasing availability for some yes but reducing availability for non addicts ,simultainiously dystroying the incentives to supply ,shattering the market

this could cause problems in its self , as suppliers of heroin are in a very dangerous place mentally ,almost certainly are armed to the teeth and are not going to just forget about the money owed to them by the underling dealers , perhaps even "punish" addicts that go to the "nationalised " clinc suppliers ,

this calls for a "peace deal", pay out money for guns ,drugs offer lower sentinces for murder weapons ,etc

offer courses ,and another source of income ,or somthing like if they give in money earned through drugs they can keep half and it becomes ligitimate

if somthing like this is not done rates of robberies and kidnappings and so on will go through the roof ,"innocents" will get hurt ,this is best avoided ,and esaly done

availability is really a false negative ,availability will exist regardless(demand=supply),but it can be controlled in a regulated market in a black market it is a free for all ,people trying to give up heroin have it dropped through there letter box , kids in a feild of any age will be offerd hash and pills , in a regulated market advertising can be banned and age limits can be enforced , for certain drugs only addicts could be supplied and so on ....

i feel it would harm society a lot less ,

thinking outside the box ,learning for yourself ect combine very negativly with prohibition , who knows,,, the modern da vinci , michelangilo ,einstein etc ,could be sitting in a cell instead of a lab , imagine the millions invested in prohibition were instead put into education, what would the world be like? better or worse?

cock robin

I could be wrong def but I'm sure the average joe dont perform experiments on them selves and as such I feel your not quite the full shilling. You really seem to believe some of the trash you posted in relation to this topic. I would be careful about revealing the nature of your employment (nano patrticle researcher) if thats really what you do as there aint many of them around and this could identify you and jeopardise your position. The current situation regarding illegal drugs is a nesecary evil. The majority of countries around the globe have a similar approach to our goverment. Are they all wrong and def is right. I dont think so. You are and always will be in the minority. We are a very small nation and your views might be better accepted in a more populous country. There aint that many abusers per head of population as you might think.

def

sparkling sea wrote: »

Your funny

i truelywish i was joking!!

def

cock robin wrote: »

I could be wrong def but I'm sure the average joe dont perform experiments on them selves and as such I feel your not quite the full shilling. You really seem to believe some of the trash you posted in relation to this topic. I would be careful about revealing the nature of your employment (nano patrticle researcher) if thats really what you do as there aint many of them around and this could identify you and jeopardise your position. The current situation regarding illegal drugs is a nesecary evil. The majority of countries around the globe have a similar approach to our goverment. Are they all wrong and def is right. I dont think so. You are and always will be in the minority. We are a very small nation and your views might be better accepted in a more populous country. There aint that many abusers per head of population as you might think.

nano partical research ... this is a "hobby" , where i am now im the classic forginer ,i speak the language poorly , i do a job no-one would choose to do ,unskilled labour , but this allows me a lot of time to think , if i do infact get taken to court for conspirisy to poses and consume canbolic plants , i dont think the case would get to far and could actually serve me well , i could challenge it and take it further to a higher court system ,

possibly ,if i get a good judge with commen sense and of a non prejudice nature to whom i could prove that prohibition does not serve the best interests of society i could end prohibition then and there.....but im not sure how the justice system works here

i think i can say with 99.9% certainty i am not the average joe...

and now we are getting very off topic....

def

cock robin wrote: »

You are and always will be in the minority. We are a very small nation and your views might be better accepted in a more populous country. There aint that many abusers per head of population as you might think.

i beg your pardon but in ireland, in the under 50 age group cannabis smokers come in at 1 out of every 4 people , this is a minority , but by some surveys(irishhealth.ie) 52% favour full regulation of the cannabis market while only 39-38%(i forgot) favour continued prohibition, this survey involved many thousands of people many of whom i assume are doctors an so on ,:cool:

cannabis prohibitionists in ireland and most places are the minority (this is why its so hard to find one to debate with!),a dangerous minority , but i dont sugest they should be locked up ,or even sent to sensitivity training!

keep in mind estimates for drug users are normally under estimated or the places the surveys are undertaken are carefully selected to make the results appear more favourable , what ever "favourable" is

a word of warning robin , check your facts before you post , it could be that they are wrong :eek: , no offence intended:)

cock robin

def wrote: »

i beg your pardon but in ireland, in the under 50 age group cannabis smokers come in at 1 out of every 4 people , this is a minority , but by some surveys(irishhealth.ie) 52% favour full regulation of the cannabis market while only 39-38%(i forgot) favour continued prohibition, this survey involved many thousands of people many of whom i assume are doctors an so on ,:cool:

cannabis prohibitionists in ireland and most places are the minority (this is why its so hard to find one to debate with!),a dangerous minority , but i dont sugest they should be locked up ,or even sent to sensitivity training!

keep in mind estimates for drug users are normally under estimated or the places the surveys are undertaken are carefully selected to make the results appear more favourable , what ever "favourable" is

a word of warning robin , check your facts before you post , it could be that they are wrong :eek: , no offence intended:)

def you are continually quoting "facts" without any refrence to the source. So your facts are yours alone. Your like a salesman not selling a product exactly but an idea. If you are happy farming and singing and growing thats to be applauded. But you cannot offer a comprehensive argument and expect that your facts and figures should be accepted and never questioned. It will alway's be bullsh1t to me. Obviously if you are growing cannabis a change in the law would be very benificial to you and you could maybe give up the shift work.

def

cock robin wrote: »

def you are continually quoting "facts" without any refrence to the source. So your facts are yours alone. Your like a salesman not selling a product exactly but an idea. If you are happy farming and singing and growing thats to be applauded. But you cannot offer a comprehensive argument and expect that your facts and figures should be accepted and never questioned. It will alway's be bullsh1t to me. Obviously if you are growing cannabis a change in the law would be very benificial to you and you could maybe give up the shift work.

everyone is on a computer with internet access , new tab , google tags- irishhealth , cannabis , survey

this is not the survey i was talking about (which i have saved) but

http://www.irishhealth.com/poll.html?pollid=304


this is the one..

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=7753