Vodafone Ireland UK vs Irish Prices

doopa

Breakdown of the costs of an Irish Contract with Vodafone versus the UK Contract.

http://spunkers.org/blog/VodafoneN900/

It looks like it would be cheaper to get the UK contract and pay the roaming charges than get an RoI Contract. Truly shocking.

ntlbell

Please, please can people stop posting these threads.

Not a rip off.

Nothing to do with a rip off.

comparing prices in two different countries is stupid and makes no sense.

doopa

ntlbell wrote: »

Please, please can people stop posting these threads.

Not a rip off.

Nothing to do with a rip off.

comparing prices in two different countries is stupid and makes no sense.

From the sticky:

sticky wrote:

Ripoff Ireland forum was started to discuss the rediculously hihg prices of goods and services in Ireland compared to our European neighbours and mainly came about because of our change to Euro and the fact it was easier to see the price differences.

rubadub

doopa wrote: »

Truly shocking.

not really,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_scale

Wolflikeme

Eh you might want to have a think about things before labelling price difference a 'rip off'.

Think. You've obviously not thought about what might affect such differences between Countries.

doopa

rubadub wrote: »

not really,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_scale

Good counter-point. Well elucidated. Response:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random

ntlbell

doopa wrote: »

From the sticky:

The uk don't use euro?

They have completely different cost base.

Population size.

Competition.

Wage costs.

Insurance costs.

Living costs.

The list is endless.

hence a pointless comparison.

ntlbell

doopa wrote: »

Good counter-point. Well elucidated. Response:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random

Maybe if you took the time to actually read the link?

Then you might not create threads such as these in the future.

Take the time, it will be worth it.

You can do this.

doopa

Wolflikeme wrote: »

Eh you might want to have a think about things before labeling price difference a 'rip off'.

Think. You've obviously not thought about what might affect such differences between Countries.

Okay - how about I label it as:

Unreflective of the difference in currency between the two markets.
Indicative of major imbalances in the free market that supposed exists between the two countries
Out of sync with the cost difference between other models and price plans on the same carrier in the two markets to the extent that I would conclude that this particular model/plan is a rip-off


I am actually interested in how such a large difference can be explained. I am like everyone else over the age of 18 aware of the concept of economies of scale. However, I fail to see how they could account for such a large difference in the cost of service provision. Perhaps someone would care to elaborate?

doopa

ntlbell wrote: »

hence a pointless comparison.

Why bother?

I'm interested to know why things here do cost more. Comparing the prices of services between different countries should allow you to work out where to buy from the future. The mobile phone market however is a special case, since you are not free to purchase from any other supplier in the EU. If I want a banking services for example - I am free to choose from a variety of suppliers within the common market. However, for the mobile phone service providers I am limited to national carriers. Therefore, I am more interested to learn why the same company can charge widely varying amounts in what is supposedly the same market.

Lets take petrol prices for example:
http://www.aaireland.ie/petrolprices/
I'd expect these to vary based on (probably predominantly on taxes), installed base of supply stations, number of car owners, all the stuff you listed, quality of public transport, size of country, average commute distance etc. However, as you can see from the table in the link above, none of them vary as much as the price difference in the mobile phone market as shown in the first link. I accept there are difference in the prices of things in different countries - however, I find it difficult to accept such wide differences in something that is rapidly becoming a utility market. I can't think of another example where the difference in cost is so great.

ntlbell

Your questions have been answrered in this thread more than once.

You're just failing or refusing to notice them.

ardmacha

Whenever a ripoff is posted here, someone comes on an says that the UK has a bigger population.

Does this mean that big countries are always cheaper than smaller ones?
Is it not the case that countries with similar population to Ireland like Singapore or Finland have cheaper mobile phone calls? if this is the case why do the usual suspects trot out economies of scale every time a rip off is posted here?

ntlbell

ardmacha wrote: »

Whenever a ripoff is posted here, someone comes on an says that the UK has a bigger population.

Does this mean that big countries are always cheaper than smaller ones?
Is it not the case that countries with similar population to Ireland like Singapore or Finland have cheaper mobile phone calls? if this is the case why do the usual suspects trot out economies of scale every time a rip off is posted here?

There is a lot of factors to consider depending, the size of the population is just one of those of those.

I can't recall looking at this forum and actually seeing a ripoff. I look forward to it tho!

Ghandee

ntlbell wrote: »

There is a lot of factors to consider depending, the size of the population is just one of those of those.

I can't recall looking at this forum and actually seeing a ripoff. I look forward to it tho!

99% of goods sold, services provided, and admission fees are a feckin rip off in this poxy country!
And you know why???
Cos Paddy pays it, and THEN complains!
Sick of saying it, the Celtic tigers over!!!!! We as a country have priced ourselves way out of line with the rest of Europe, intact in my 32 years on this earth, the only (city anyway) that I've experienced a bigger rip off than (dubln for example) is Paris!
Not only did the Parisians fleece Mrs Gucky And myself, but they were extremely rude and obnoxious whilst doing it!

91011

doopa wrote: »

Why bother?

I'm interested to know why things here do cost more. Comparing the prices of services between different countries should allow you to work out where to buy from the future. The mobile phone market however is a special case, since you are not free to purchase from any other supplier in the EU. If I want a banking services for example - I am free to choose from a variety of suppliers within the common market. However, for the mobile phone service providers I am limited to national carriers. Therefore, I am more interested to learn why the same company can charge widely varying amounts in what is supposedly the same market.

Lets take petrol prices for example:
http://www.aaireland.ie/petrolprices/
I'd expect these to vary based on (probably predominantly on taxes), installed base of supply stations, number of car owners, all the stuff you listed, quality of public transport, size of country, average commute distance etc. However, as you can see from the table in the link above, none of them vary as much as the price difference in the mobile phone market as shown in the first link. I accept there are difference in the prices of things in different countries - however, I find it difficult to accept such wide differences in something that is rapidly becoming a utility market. I can't think of another example where the difference in cost is so great.

Quoting two totally different products is ridiculous.

Petrol stations in Ireland & uk are all similar sizes with similar size tanks. Likewise the tankers that deliver the petrol are similar sizes. So economies of scale don't come into the equation as both markets have reached maximum efficiency. - It would be different if stations in the UK could take 100,000 litres & stations in Irealnd could only take 20,000 litres - then there would be a price difference. (the ex tax price of petrol in Ireland is almost the same as every other country in the world including good old USA)

In terms of mobile phones, the population density in the UK is far far greater than Ireland - about 5 times greater. therefore most phone masts are used to the maximum (also causes a lot of dropped calls & poor service) whereas in ireland, many masts are totally under ultilised but still must be serviced as musch as a busy mast. Hence the cost of operating in the market is higher which has to be passed on to the end user.


Though if you want an extra 10 million inhabitants in the country, I'm sure you could then expect lower charges

doopa

91011 wrote: »

Quoting two totally different products is ridiculous.

Petrol stations in Ireland & uk are all similar sizes with similar size tanks. Likewise the tankers that deliver the petrol are similar sizes. So economies of scale don't come into the equation as both markets have reached maximum efficiency. - It would be different if stations in the UK could take 100,000 litres & stations in Irealnd could only take 20,000 litres - then there would be a price difference. (the ex tax price of petrol in Ireland is almost the same as every other country in the world including good old USA)

In terms of mobile phones, the population density in the UK is far far greater than Ireland - about 5 times greater. therefore most phone masts are used to the maximum (also causes a lot of dropped calls & poor service) whereas in ireland, many masts are totally under ultilised but still must be serviced as musch as a busy mast. Hence the cost of operating in the market is higher which has to be passed on to the end user.


Though if you want an extra 10 million inhabitants in the country, I'm sure you could then expect lower charges

I'm not sure you got the point about petrol. The point was to demonstrate that I understand that there is variance in prices between countries, and that variance occurs within certain degrees. When that variance is outside of those degrees one can safely conclude that you are getting ripped off.

On a separate point I dunno where you are getting your tax rates for petrol from. Any links - or are you just making it up off the top of your head? I also checked pop density in the UK and whilst it varies immensely internally and it is still higher than Ireland none of the surveys I checked (UK & Ireland census, OECD, CIA) reckon its five times higher.

I would have directed people to the Swiss site for mobile phone contracts. A country well known for being expensive (though perhaps not a rip off depending on your point of view). However, the language barrier would make it difficult for all reading these posts to assess the claims being made. Therefore, I made a comparison with the UK since its more conceivable that people could assess any differences. If you can read German or French - check out Swiss mobile phone prices for the same products I first linked to and see how much more expensive Ireland is. The rest will just have to take my word for it.

Have you any stats for the number of masts/km2 in the UK? Any assessment of the effectiveness of the mobile infrastructure? Do you know if the phone mast density is greater in the UK or Ireland? Any evidence at all above some wild idle speculation? I could point to reports assessing the success of the sale of spectrums across EU countries, the US, Australia and so on that illustrate how ineffective government regulation leads to price differences of mobile infrastructure - but since no seems to want to believe that the Irish government is colluding with major companies (or just plainly and simply ****ing inept) to **** the country over there seems little point in providing facts and if I want to discuss the matter I should just make up vague numbers instead.

rubadub

Artfully Dodgin wrote: »

That was one pretentious responce

Whats pretentious about it?

Artfully Dodgin wrote: »

Your are without doubt a well trained Fianna Fail supporter

Nope, dunno where you pulled that one out of, without a doubt you have issues with Fianna Fail and probably want to drag some sort of stupid rant into this thread.

testicle

ntlbell wrote: »

The uk don't use euro?

They have completely different cost base.

Population size.

Competition.

Wage costs.

Insurance costs.

Living costs.

The list is endless.

hence a pointless comparison.

This forum is pointless so. Is that what you're saying?

ntlbell

testicle wrote: »

This forum is pointless so. Is that what you're saying?

I wasn't aware the forum was created to make unfounded comparisons with the UK.

If that's all it's going to be used for, then yes, It's rather pointless.

doopa

ntlbell wrote: »

I wasn't aware the forum was created to make unfounded comparisons with the UK.

If that's all it's going to be used for, then yes, It's rather pointless.

Why are you here? I mean that generally as well.

Whats unfounded about it?

ntlbell

doopa wrote: »

Why are you here? I mean that generally as well.

Whats unfounded about it?

Do we need to keep going over the same thing again?

Please read previous posts.

Carefully.

doopa

ntlbell wrote: »

Do we need to keep going over the same thing again?

Please read previous posts.

Carefully.

I have read your posts. None of them substantively address any of the issues I raised. Here's how this thread went.

I posted a link to a comparison of prices between the UK and Ireland (I can post the swiss (cos its a similar size) prices as well if you're interested, or german or whatever).

You said: ah but you haven't considered x and y and whatever else.

I said: Here are a bunch of reasons why those reasons don't explain the difference.

You say: ah but you didn't read my post.

I reiterated my counterpoints to which I had still not received any response and eluciated more on why you had failed to address the disparity of the price difference (note we're not disputing the existence of a price difference just the magnitude).

You said: ah but you didn't read my post.

You have failed, after been given multiple opportunities to address any of the examples I've given. We will keep going over the same thing over and over again if all you add to the discussion is repeated posts saying things like "did you not read what I said".

doopa

Screw it - it probably is cheaper just to get a uk phone:

http://www.three.co.uk/Help_Support/International/ROI_Promotion