Convicted for speeding,,,not havin that.....

liamwhite

I'm listening wrote: »

You can't catch everyone for speeding, there's not the resources and you can't let everyone away with speeding because you can't get everyone.
That's how it works, some get caught and the people who speed on a regular basis, hopefully get caught at some stage!

The OP was one who was caught! Admitted Guilt, end of story.

It's a balls, but complaining about it on boards and looking for people like Liamwhite who don't give a S*** about rules of the road to back you up, won't make the fine go away

Oh i care about the rules of the road, i dont go out in the morning not giving a **** about any other man, woman or child's life nor do i put any other man woman or childs life in danger with my driving.
I do however sometimes go over the speed limit a bit, not exessive amounts but i do go over it and i admit that, the day i dont give a **** about the rules of the road will be the day i kill some innocent person and that day will never come because i make it my buisness to be alert from the moment i start my engine to the moment i turn it off!

Driving over the speed limit however on a dual carrigeway or the n4 is not a huge crime! Doing it in the snow, then the death sentance should be put in place or those who are that dumb! but come on even you know in your heart of hearts that you have broken it once or twice in your life... everybody does EVEN THE GARDAI!!!

You know its people like you that have this country in the state its in, you dont give a **** until it happens to you! when you get a ticket you will be on this site giving it socks and you will exect an ear to confide in! This website is a community, not a battle field. So if you feel that the op is posting a pointless thread then move along to the next one with the others that think it. The op is here for advice from the COMMUNITY not to be given stupid answers. You dont have to agree with the op but at least dont give him/her a pointless answer! If it makes you so angry that the op went 20km over the speed limit then you need to look at yourself..

dont get me wrong either, i respect your opinion to an extent but why leave stupid remarks like "throw away the key" ect... as i said before this is a petty situation not a murder trial!

the throw away the key comment was from a previous post....

GTE

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Where's the point in continuing trial if a verdict has been given from the get-go?

Because the verdict was never in question, the sentence is.

Midnight_EG

bbk wrote: »

Because the verdict was never in question, the sentence is.

Judge: Guilty or Not Guilty?

OP: Guilty.

Verdict: Guilty......



Now the sentence was imposed because he admitted straight away to being guilty, why would they consider a new sentence in this case?

GTE

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Judge: Guilty or Not Guilty?

OP: Guilty.

Verdict: Guilty......



Now the sentence was imposed because he admitted straight away to being guilty, why would they consider a new sentence in this case?

Jesus, you really dont understand logic.
By paying the basic fine hes pleading guilty to speeding, he wasnt given a fair chance to do so, nor was he given a fair chance to explain himself with regards to the fine he got. So he says hes guilty for speeding, why lie? And then he expected to be given the chance to say basically "I didnt get the fine in the post, im willing to pay the basic fine" reconsider the punsihment.

Midnight_EG

Midnight_EG wrote: »

I'm assuming it was a Gatso Van that caught him, if so then a sheet is sent out saying he was caught, and on the back there's a section about the owner not actually driving the car at the time?

Now this part I can't be sure of but assume you are probably right.

The points were forwarded from the hire company. There used to be a rule in place that allowed you to transfer points very easily by either filling in the form or sending a signed letter stating same. However, according to the garda that my friend spoke to, it is no longer this easy due to the process being exploited so now you have to take it to court, give the judge your story, he then allows the points to be transferred. It's to stop people giving points to their wives etc to avoid disqualification.

Didn't work out in her instance.

Even the gardai that she paid the fine to said that particular judge is a horrible man who gives everyone outlandish sentences, that shouldn't be allowed to happen, for minor traffic offenses there should be specific fines/punishments that are handed down.

galwaytt

drunkmonkey wrote: »

he's called Noel, he's got big plans for all you speeders,

Noel? Noel 'Speeder' Dempsey ? Noel ' 4points' Dempsey? Noel 'no licence' Dempsey ? That one ? :rolleyes:

He should forgeit HIS job over that one, tbh.....:mad:

bbk wrote: »

.....He was given the chance though, just sadly the letter didnt arrive etc. ....

...ok, explain that to me: the Notice didn't arrive, so the chance was......when, exactly........? kinda like the €10k I sent you last week with 3 days to cash it..........oh, wait.......you didn't get it ? Ah, well..........

Midnight_EG

Deleted User wrote: »

Now this part I can't be sure of but assume you are probably right.

The points were forwarded from the hire company. There used to be a rule in place that allowed you to transfer points very easily by either filling in the form or sending a signed letter stating same. However, according to the garda that my friend spoke to, it is no longer this easy due to the process being exploited so now you have to take it to court, give the judge your story, he then allows the points to be transferred. It's to stop people giving points to their wives etc to avoid disqualification.

Didn't work out in her instance.

Even the gardai that she paid the fine to said that particular judge is a horrible man who gives everyone outlandish sentences, that shouldn't be allowed to happen, for minor traffic offenses there should be specific fines/punishments that are handed down.

When was this?

Cos 2 months ago I know of someone who got caught, then transferred with the sheet that came, to his mate?

Scania580

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Relay the exact conversation/events for us then, including name titles.


(You: Said something, Judge:Said something back)

You know?

GDA: on the....jdg;what have u got to say mr...MR; didnt get summons jdg JDG; GUILTY OR NOT?MR; didnt get summons (ignored)JDG (raised voice)Guilty or not ,,answer the question...MR; guilty of speeding ,but didnt recieve fixed penalty...JDG...convicted .......

I'm listening

liamwhite wrote: »

dont get me wrong either, i respect your opinion to an extent but why leave stupid remarks like "throw away the key" ect... as i said before this is a petty situation not a murder trial!

the throw away the key comment was from a previous post....

I didn't make any comment about 'throw away the key' ??

Midnight_EG

Scania580 wrote: »

GDA: on the....jdg;what have u got to say mr...MR; didnt get summons jdg JDG; GUILTY OR NOT?MR; didnt get summons (ignored)JDG (raised voice)Guilty or not ,,answer the question...MR; guilty of speeding ,but didnt recieve fixed penalty...JDG...convicted .......

In that case, got an independent witness that can say this happened?

If so, ON WITH THE APPEAL I SAY!



:P

Midnight_EG

Midnight_EG wrote: »

When was this?

Cos 2 months ago I know of someone who got caught, then transferred with the sheet that came, to his mate?

About a year ago.

GTE

galwaytt wrote: »

...ok, explain that to me: the Notice didn't arrive, so the chance was......when, exactly........? kinda like the €10k I sent you last week with 3 days to cash it..........oh, wait.......you didn't get it ? Ah, well..........

The arguement the Garda would probably say is:
We sent out the notice. Ie, the chance for him to accept and pay the fine was given.

In this unfortunate story the letter didnt arrive so in reality the OP never got the chance to pay the basic fine but the Garda say he would have.

Its a technicality. When its posted its assumed it will arrive, especially if unregistered so they say. Fine was sent, he refused to pay.

Midnight_EG

Deleted User wrote: »

About a year ago.

Well that's weird :S

liamwhite

I'm listening wrote: »

I didn't make any comment about 'throw away the key' ??

lol yeah i noticed that was somebody else my apolagies :P

I'm listening

liamwhite wrote: »

You know its people like you that have this country in the state its in, you dont give a **** until it happens to you! when you get a ticket you will be on this site giving it socks and you will exect an ear to confide in!

WHAT??

What did I do

Sure if I'm irresponsible enough to get a ticket, that's my bad, I'm old enough to know there's no point crying over it.

liamwhite

bbk wrote: »

Jesus, you really dont understand logic.
By paying the basic fine hes pleading guilty to speeding, he wasnt given a fair chance to do so, nor was he given a fair chance to explain himself with regards to the fine he got. So he says hes guilty for speeding, why lie? And then he expected to be given the chance to say basically "I didnt get the fine in the post, im willing to pay the basic fine" reconsider the punsihment.

I COULDNT OF SAID I BETTER MYSELF!!!!!!

GTE

I'm listening wrote: »

WHAT??

What did I do

Sure if I'm irresponsible enough to get a ticket, that's my bad, I'm old enough to know there's no point crying over it.

Hes not crying over the ticket. Oh, yer older but not wise! haha

liamwhite

I'm listening wrote: »

WHAT??

What did I do

Sure if I'm irresponsible enough to get a ticket, that's my bad, I'm old enough to know there's no point crying over it.

i tought you were the person that was giving it socks earlier about the throw away the key comment! mistaken identity! but i still didnt agree with your post!

Midnight_EG

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Well that's weird :S

tis!
I've heard that before about people exploiting the system so they changed the rules. Maybe they changed them back because of people clogging up the courts for stupid reasons.

I also wonder in her case, was it to do with the fact he (her stepdad) was driving a hire car?

Point anyway is that she did exactly what she was told to do and ended up with 4 points!

In the OP's case, he should have been given the opportunity to pay the fine and accept the 2 points. He wasn't and that's the issue. Sure they could make a killing out of not bothering to send people the original fine and dragging them straight to court instead.

PeakOutput

there have been many threads like this here and no1 who expects to get off on a technicality has ever gotten sympathy

you may be right about due process but you still got caught for speeding and therefore should be punished

I'm listening

bbk wrote: »

Hes not crying over the ticket. Oh, yer older but not wise! haha

Well I'm not that old

Scania580

Midnight_EG wrote: »

In that case, got an independent witness that can say this happened?

If so, ON WITH THE APPEAL I SAY!



:P

I went back infront of the same judge with the appeal papers and he wanted 400 euro bond,,,No way...HE settled for less in the end....He let the guy before me caught using a phone off with a charity donation eventhough he had the same story as me...Deff no way im havin that......:o

I'm listening

Lads it's been fun

Good Luck, hopefully on another thread we can be friends, haha

GTE

PeakOutput

you may be right about due process but you still got caught for speeding and therefore should be punished

He didnt say nor imply that he shouldnt be punished.

I'm listening wrote: »

Well I'm not that old

So that explains it haha

Scania580

PeakOutput wrote: »

there have been many threads like this here and no1 who expects to get off on a technicality has ever gotten sympathy

you may be right about due process but you still got caught for speeding and therefore should be punished

But 2 points and 80 euro not 4 points and 300 euro...:pac:

liamwhite

I'm listening wrote: »

Lads it's been fun

Good Luck, hopefully on another thread we can be friends, haha

only if you have the same views as me!!

PeakOutput

PeakOutput wrote: »

you may be right about due process but you still got caught for speeding and therefore should be punished

Yes, punished with the 2 points and €80 fine as per the law. The OP hasn't once suggested he should not have had to pay this fine/accept these points.

If the correct process was followed he would now have these 2 points and have a lighter wallet and not be in the least bit bothered.

Scania580

To all the posters tonight...I will keep ye posted............unlike my fixed penalty...:o

liamwhite

I'm listening wrote: »

Lads it's been fun

Good Luck, hopefully on another thread we can be friends, haha

only if you have the same views as me!! best of luck! safe driving:D

GTE

Well, Im right, yer all wrong, even the people who I agree with.;)
haha
Im off to bed



OP:
Best of luck in getting yer fine back to the basic one and not anything silly, but no more 70 in a 50 zone.

xoxyx

OP - why are you so abusive towards any and all posters who aren't purely sympathetic to you? It's not right what happened to you with regard to the judge, and if you want to appeal, I hope you get fairer treatment.
However, none of this would have happened if you hadn't been speeding in the first place. No matter how ridiculous some speed limits can be, the law is the law, and break it at your peril. Take the rough with the smooth - if something happened that caused you to crash and you injured somebody, your being over the limit, no matter how slightly or otherwise, could have extremely serious implications. If you look at the wider picture, worse could have happened than a large fine.

Scania580

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, punished with the 2 points and €80 fine as per the law. The OP hasn't once suggested he should not have had to pay this fine/accept these points.

If the correct process was followed he would now have these 2 points and have a lighter wallet and not be in the least bit bothered.

That is what im trying to relay,,,2 points and 80 euro is all im asking for.im not having a speeding conviction after 22 years professional driving un less i deserve it...and i dont..I have no convictions for anything and i dont plan to start anytime soon.:cool:

Grindylow

Scania580 wrote: »

That is what im trying to relay,,,2 points and 80 euro is all im asking for.im not having a speeding conviction after 22 years professional driving un less i deserve it...and i dont..I have no convictions for anything and i dont plan to start anytime soon.:cool:

Speeding is a conviction, you were speeding.
You got your conviction, even if you disagree with 4 points and €300, €80 and 2 points is also a conviction- you got what you deserved. Don't speed, don't get convicted, simple as.

Scania580

z_topaz wrote: »

OP - why are you so abusive towards any and all posters who aren't purely sympathetic to you? It's not right what happened to you with regard to the judge, and if you want to appeal, I hope you get fairer treatment.
However, none of this would have happened if you hadn't been speeding in the first place. No matter how ridiculous some speed limits can be, the law is the law, and break it at your peril. Take the rough with the smooth - if something happened that caused you to crash and you injured somebody, your being over the limit, no matter how slightly or otherwise, could have extremely serious implications. If you look at the wider picture, worse could have happened than a large fine.

Dont agree with such strong language... and as for taking the rough with the smooth.would you like a judge to ignore you and then put 4 points on your licence with a big fine because of some postal, or clerical error???

the_syco

Scania580 wrote: »

He said convicted 325 fine next........Im appealing.Not havin that,no way,I was bullied,and ignored by the judge.......:cool:

You got off lightly. If you fight the poweh, don't you risk getting a larger fine, and more points?

Scania580

Noel2k9 wrote: »

Speeding is a conviction, you were speeding.
You got your conviction, even if you disagree with 4 points and €300, €80 and 2 points is also a conviction- you got what you deserved. Don't speed, don't get convicted, simple as.

Yawn....+1000000

z_topaz

z_topaz wrote: »

OP - why are you so abusive towards any and all posters who aren't purely sympathetic to you? It's not right what happened to you with regard to the judge, and if you want to appeal, I hope you get fairer treatment.
However, none of this would have happened if you hadn't been speeding in the first place. No matter how ridiculous some speed limits can be, the law is the law, and break it at your peril. Take the rough with the smooth - if something happened that caused you to crash and you injured somebody, your being over the limit, no matter how slightly or otherwise, could have extremely serious implications. If you look at the wider picture, worse could have happened than a large fine.

If you read through the thread the OP has stated he was caught speeding in the port tunnel. They actually have digital signs in the port tunnel so that they can change them to put speed checks on them. The standard speed at all times of the day is 80kmph. However, on occasion the gardai set up speed checks and deliberately lower the speed limit just to catch people speeding. If 80km is safe at 1 o'clock and there are no changes to that road at 2 o'clock, why is it less safe to drive at 80kmph? The OP is certainly not the first person I have heard of being caught in this manner in the port tunnel.

Noel2k9 wrote: »

Speeding is a conviction, you were speeding.
You got your conviction, even if you disagree with 4 points and €300, €80 and 2 points is also a conviction- you got what you deserved. Don't speed, don't get convicted, simple as.

No. He deserved the fixed penalty of €80 and 2 points. He deserved, as per the law, to be given a chance to pay, he was not, therefore he did not get what he deserved actually.

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

You got off lightly. If you fight the poweh, don't you risk getting a larger fine, and more points?

no. the maximum number of points you can get for speeding is 4 points. That is if you do not pay the fine and decide the challenge it in court. The OP wasn't given this option in the first place, he was simply summonsed to court, therefor he has already received the maximum penalties and cannot be given more points by appealing it.

xoxyx

Scania580 wrote: »

Dont agree with such strong language... and as for taking the rough with the smooth.would you like a judge to ignore you and then put 4 points on your licence with a big fine because of some postal, or clerical error???

I never said I would be happy to be ignored by a judge, etc. What I did say is that I hope, if you do appeal, it goes well for you. Why so defensive?
And I don't see what's so strong about my language. Just putting it to you that speeding can lead to worse things than a heavy fine. From the way you put it, you were treated unfairly by the trial judge, but you're not blameless in the situation either.

z_topaz

z_topaz wrote: »

but you're not blameless in the situation either.

he never claimed to be :rolleyes:

Scania580

My girlfriend often complains about not being understood in ireland.....but then again she is polish.....some of you posters should read and understand the op before rushing to post your opinions....because i felt tonight that feeling of speaking in a foregin language.;)

GTE

Scania580 wrote: »

Yawn....+1000000

careful now

xoxyx

Deleted User wrote: »

he never claimed to be :rolleyes:

I never said he did. But, do the crime, pay the fine. And, he did do the crime.

GTE

z_topaz wrote: »

I never said he did. But, do the crime, pay the fine. And, he did do the crime.

Lads, he wants to pay the bloody fine!!!!! Just he wants to pay the correct one.

xoxyx

I know. I get that he's willing to pay the fine. But it's a case of equitable law - you come in with clean hands or else you can't go moaning when you get treated badly.
If the OP was wrongly accused of speeding, then I would have nothing but sympathy for him. But, (and it doesn't matter what kind of weird speed zone he says he was in), the fact is, he was speeding - and in my mind, the potential consequences of speeding make his actions much more serious than the heightened fine that he got awarded.

Can't believe I got facepalmed!!! ... I kind of like it.

GTE

z_topaz wrote: »

I know. I get that he's willing to pay the fine. But it's a case of equitable law - you come in with clean hands or else you can't go moaning when you get treated badly.
If the OP was wrongly accused of speeding, then I would have nothing but sympathy for him. But, (and it doesn't matter what kind of weird speed zone he says he was in), the fact is, he was speeding - and in my mind, the potential consequences of speeding make his actions much more serious than the heightened fine that he got awarded.

Can't believe I got facepalmed!!! I kind of like it!

You got double facepalmed haha. I get what you are saying, I just read your post quickly and SOOOOO wanted to use the double fpalm

Personally I feel sorry for the bloke but, only cause I know that if it happened to me Id be soo annoyed that I couldnt pay the bigger fine.

pounder770

I ve read the whole lot of this....20 minutes of my life i'll never get back!!:D

To the OP,you made two fatal errors....first,being caught speeding,second,not being represented in court for it.
You pleaded guilty,in court,to the offence listed...speeding,and failing to pay a fixed penalty...thats why you were there,to answer the charge of not paying the fixed penalty.A plea of not guilty would have caused the whole affair to be discussed,and the judge would have had to listen to your "defence". A solicitor(or some research) might have uncovered this fact.

In short,the best advice you got here is not to go back without proper legal representation....us poor eejits don't speak legalese well enough to handle these situations!!!

AlekSmart

To the OP,you made two fatal errors....first,being caught speeding,second,not being represented in court for it.
You pleaded guilty,in court,to the offence listed...speeding,and failing to pay a fixed penalty

Reckon that sums it up...remember that cranky oul Judge began his career as a solicitor and it`s all part of the game to ensure the great unwashed don`t start gettin ideas above their station.

I reckon a reasonable brief would have saved Scania560 a LOT of grief.

Another point to bear in mind is that Scania560 is a "Vocational" licence holder..ie he`s a professional driver...Some Judges just LOVE when an opportunity comes along to underline all that oul CPC safety shytt.

Occam

Scania580 wrote: »

I expected to be heard not ignored.......I made a valid point that the judge chose to ignore.

Except you did not make a valid point. You can't argue a defense if you plead guilty, so the whole thing is a moot point.

In any case, the defence you propse was argued to death in the district court, with varying success and was seen as a loophole. But things changed last year - Judge White, in the Circuit Court ruled that if the Garda can show proof of postage of the Fixed penelty notice, the trial judge can convict, regardless if the defendent received the Fixed penelty notice.

So, in summary:

1) you shouldn't have plead guilty
2) even if you had argued your case properly, you would have lost.

So what can you do now ? Well you are pretty screwed, because

3) You can't plead not guilty in the circuit after pleading guilty in the district
4) Even if you could argue a defense, it wouldnt work, after Whites ruling
5) You would need to take the case to the high court to argue the defense
6) Except you can't because you've already pleaded guilty.

Scania580 wrote: »

Its not about guilty or not guilty....one has the chance to pay by post get points and no conviction...I didnt get that chance......Cant be given any more than 4 points and soiictor said they wont increase fine either,or its unlikely...so i`ve little to loose and all to gain...:)

You are not entitled to the chance to pay the fixed penelty, this is where your argument falls apart. You are entitled to have the notice posted to you. Whether you receive it is another thing....

Irish Independent carried the story : http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/judge-closes-loophole-used-to-avoid-speeding-penalty-points-1824424.html

jaffa20

I can sympathise with the op as he didn't receive the appropriate fine before the summons and they should be sent by registered post. However, we do not know all the details. If i was stopped by a guard for speeding and did not receive the fine in the post within a month, i would enquire about it at my local garda station. I wouldn't allow it to develop into a summons knowing well that i should have received the fine by that stage.