Philip K Dick

Malice

I recently picked up a couple of Mr. Dick's books that I didn't already have and tends to happen, I got thinking about just how much of a shame it was that he died comparatively young and before he could reap the financial rewards from the various movies that have been made of his stories.

I think my favourite book of his is The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch but honourable mentions must go to Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, We Can Remember It for You Wholesale and Ubik.

Are there any other fans of his on here?

Woden

Its been a number of years since I read anything by him but I quite enjoy him as an author. I recall at the time reading do androids dream of electric sheep thinking it was great and then going to rent blade runner and being sorely disappointed

On another note I was also disappointed by the man in the high castle in fact not quite found a alternate ww2 story that I felt was done particularly well (any recommendations anyone?)

I have good memories of one of the collective short story books also. Possibly related to trying to destroy robots which just got smaller and smaller until they where overrun.

sxt

I have only ever read a "scanner darkly" which was a very good read,very thought provoking and sad in parts.

Monkeybonkers

Malice_ wrote: »

but honourable mentions must go to Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep

I had this book in my hand the other day while in the library but in the end didn't take it. I think having seen the film kind of put me off although I'd heard that the two were quite different. I intend to read it soon though. Any recomendations of any of his other works?

Dades

Woden wrote: »

On another note I was also disappointed by the man in the high castle in fact not quite found a alternate ww2 story that I felt was done particularly well (any recommendations anyone?)

Likewise - quite disappointing! (Fatherland by Robert Harris was a great alternative WW2 read, btw)

His books I liked the most were probably: The World Jones Made, A Maze of Death and Our Friends from Frolix 8 (v. funny).

Malice

Monkeybonkers wrote: »

I had this book in my hand the other day while in the library but in the end didn't take it. I think having seen the film kind of put me off although I'd heard that the two were quite different. I intend to read it soon though. Any recomendations of any of his other works?

I'd start with the other ones that I mentioned in my previous post. You could also see about the book versions of any of the films that you might have seen previously e.g. Total Recall, Minority Report, A Scanner Darkly, Paycheck or Blade Runner.

MikeC101

Malice_ wrote: »

I'd start with the other ones that I mentioned in my previous post. You could also see about the book versions of any of the films that you might have seen previously e.g. Total Recall, Minority Report, A Scanner Darkly, Paycheck or Blade Runner.

Just so people are aware, Minority Report and Paycheck are short stories rather than novels, though they're often packaged with other Dick short stories with MINORITY REPORT in huge print and in very small print "and other stories". His short "Second Variety" was the inspiration for the movie "Screamers" also.

Personally, I think his short stories are a fantastic read, and generally superior to most of his novel length work.

MikeC101

Woden wrote: »

Possibly related to trying to destroy robots which just got smaller and smaller until they where overrun.

"Autofac" maybe?

Earthhorse

MikeC101 wrote: »

Personally, I think his short stories are a fantastic read, and generally superior to most of his novel length work.

Very much agree with you and Dick himself said that the short story was his natural metre. In his novels, he has a tendency to go off on so many tangents that they become incoherent.

Having said that, two of his novels I would recommend are Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? and Dr. Bloodmoney. Both excellent from start to finish.

MikeC101

Earthhorse wrote: »

Very much agree with you and Dick himself said that the short story was his natural metre. In his novels, he has a tendency to go off on so many tangents that they become incoherent.

Exactly - I think a lot of his longer work sacrifices coherence for the chance to put in whatever new idea was spinning around in his head. Great though those ideas usually were, they didn't always fit. His shorts didn't allow him to lose focus as much.

Some of his short stories induce a chill in me even today, despite the frequent cold war background, but boy they can be bleak!

Earthhorse wrote: »

Having said that, two of his novels I would recommend are Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? and Dr. Bloodmoney. Both excellent from start to finish.

I'd almost try to persuade you to add The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch to those two
(Almost is a key word with most Dick novels for me, they tend towards almost being brilliant, reaching for excellence, but just not quite getting there.)

Malice

Some of his stuff can definitely get strange. When I first read he Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch I had to read it again to make sure I understood what I had just read .

MikeC101 wrote: »

Just so people are aware, Minority Report and Paycheck are short stories rather than novels, though they're often packaged with other Dick short stories with MINORITY REPORT in huge print and in very small print "and other stories".

I think the version of Minority Report that I got even had "Now a major motion picture starring Tom Cruise" written on the front!

Earthhorse

MikeC101 wrote: »

I'd almost try to persuade you to add The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch to those two
(Almost is a key word with most Dick novels for me, they tend towards almost being brilliant, reaching for excellence, but just not quite getting there.)

I think Solar Lottery falls into that bracket for me. Some great ideas hindered by too many offshoots. With a little cleaning up it could be a lot better.

I'll probably get round to reading all his work at some stage. Haven't read The Three Stigmata... though. Maybe I will put it first on the list.

Malice_ wrote: »

I think the version of Minority Report that I got even had "Now a major motion picture starring Tom Cruise" written on the front!

You might be best off getting the collected stories. There are five volumes and they're in chronological order so you can track the progression of his work. For me, he gets better as he gets older but there are classics in each of the collections. Some great stuff altogether.

johnnyskeleton

Definately the short stories are the way to go, and the best example of his progression.

There are roughly four stages of PKD's books:

1) paranoid McCarthy-era satires in the early 1950s - great sci-fi about censorship, persecution etc. My favourite of these is the novella The Man Who Japed.

2) traditional sci fi themes in the late 50s and 60s - these are great intelligent, well written sci fi books, many of which are distopian. Occasional bouts of madness such as Martian Time Slip, these books are his most accessable I suppose. You've already read Do androids dream and Dr. Bloodmoney was recommended. I didn't dislike The Man in the High Castle as some have, and so would recommed it.

3) drugs novels - if you liked three stigmata then you'll love a scanner darkly or pretty much anything written late 60s early 70s.

4) post breakdown books - after having a breakdown (not at all due to his many years of conspicuous drug taking) in the early 70s PKD started to have hallucinations until he had an epiphany that a sentient sattelite orbited the earth with divine powers controlling the lives of humans. I deliberately put off reading these, so someone else will have to rate them for you, but from what I hear they are not exactly beach material.

An interesting non-fiction book is "What if our world is their heaven" which is a set of interviews with him shortly before he died. He outlines the idea behind what would have been his next book (as the title suggests, based on sentient beings from another planet who transformed into humans after death).

As for the film references, it's hard to find a dark science fiction film of the last 50 years that doesn't have at least part of its plot borrowed from the works of Philip K. Dick.

BaelNaMblath

Dick's ideas and concepts are better than his execution, but you should read his stuff just for the sheer bizarre thinking he displays, especially for the time.

Malice

BaelNaMblath wrote: »

especially for the time.

I have to agree with this part. In the book I'm reading at the moment there have been numerous references to rewinding tape and so on. I suppose he couldn't have foreseen mass-market DVDs and USB devices .

At the moment I am about halfway through 'The Man In The High Castle'.
This is my first PKD book and so far I've found it to be an engrossing read and not too heavy on tangents, as mentioned earlier - with the exception of his details on the 'I Ching'.
I find the fact that I'm a reader reading about an alternate world, in which the characters read a book about an alternate world to be a very smart device. Although I don't particularly feel for the individual characters in the book, I'm thoroughly engaged in learning more about the world Dick has created for them to live in.

Given that I've recently listened to the audiobook of 'A Scanner Darkly' and recently seen 'Blade Runner', I will leave their equivalent books for a much later date when the new stuff I put in my head pushes some of the old stuff out....based on that, which would members recommend to check out next?

indough

i would suggest 'flow my tears, the policeman said', wasnt overly taken on 'the man in the high castle'

tHE vAGGABOND

there are 3 or 4 collections of his short stories [as in, all his stories, in 3 or 4 parts], I have read 2 of them and they were excellent [minority report and another one, the title of which i cant remember].

cheers for the suggestions, I think I'll just pick up a collected book of his work then so.

Earthhorse

There are five short story collections in total. Worth reading in chronological order I reckon but not necessary to do so.

Blade Runner has little enough in common with Do Androids...? so you wouldn't be spoiled reading it at all. Dr. Bloodmoney is the only other long work of his I would recommend (I've only read seven or eight of them). Solar Lottery isn't bad either. Flow My Tears...is readable but not great in my opinion.

MudSkipper

Agree that the 5 volumes of short stories are a great overview of how his work progressed.
It's actually 4 volumes with shorts and 1 with 3 early novels and additional shorts.

To the ones already mentioned, I'd like to add:

Eye in the sky
Now wait for last year
Time out of Joint

Just finished time out of joint and thought it was excellent, Raggle Gumm is a typical PKD character and the Paranoia just drips from the pages

Earthhorse

Which volume is that then? The Days of Perky Pat? That's the only one I haven't read.

Also, the volume 5 I bought was called We Can Remember it for You Wholesale.

MudSkipper

oops there are indeed 5 short story volumes and one with 3 early novels.... was picturing my bookshelf in my head and the 'we can remember it wholesale for you' one threw me off my copy is from a different publisher than the others which uses thinner paper so book appears much thinner than the others

thelonecarrot

I recently had to study Do Androids dream of electric sheep" for college and I gotta say I'm going to buy more of work as a result.

While his actual writing can be a little arkward to read I love the ideas in this book. Mercerism in paticular.

Johnny Storm

PKD is, by far, my favorite author.
There are plenty of other threads about him on here.
IMHO his best novel overall is probably Ubik.
One that's often overlooked is "Clans of the Alphane Moon" IMHO his funniest novel.
Other excellent novels of his:-

• Man in the High Castle
• Martian TimeSlip
• 3 Stigmata
• Dr Bloodmoney
• Do Androids Dream? (Bladerunner)
• Maze of Death
• We can build you
• Flow my tears
• Scanner Darkly

I've probably forgotten a few.

Personally I don't like the later religious novels but the Transmigration of Timothy Archer is quite good.

It's worth noting that most of the hokey titles of his books were imposed by the publishers - i.e. Dr Bloodmoney was originally titled "In Earth's Diurnal Course.."

Those large multi-volume collections of his short stories include ALL his stories - some excellent stories and sorry to say some not so good ones. IMHO better to stick to short story collections that were published during his life such as The Preserving Machine.

Two good books about PKD are The Divine Invasion by Laurence Sutin and the Novels of PKD by Kim Stanley Robinson



Movies: Pay no attention to the movies made of his works. They do not come anywhere close to capturing the feel of his books. Only Blade Runner even begins to get there. The movies of Scanner Darkly and "Screamers" :rolleyes: are way too literal and Total Recall and Minority Report are just ****.
Movies that get a bit closer to the Phildickian world are Dark Star and even the Truman Show.

indough

Johnny Storm wrote: »

:rolleyes: are way too literal and Total Recall and Minority Report are just ****.

ah now, take that back, total recall for one is a favourite of mine and minority report is better than decent at least

personally i like the titles of his books, the hokey'er the better

didnt really think much of '3 stigmata' but id also consider him my favourite writer at the moment

Earthhorse

indough wrote: »

ah now, take that back, total recall for one is a favourite of mine and minority report is better than decent at least

Total Recall, I enjoy. It's hi-octane and silly at times but it does actually have a theme of reality vs dream running through it and there are plenty of clever little clues in the script as to either being the case.

Minority Report, on the other hand, is a pile of rubbish, with no coherent themes, and plot holes you could drive a magnet car through.

Screamers, I enjoyed though, even if it was a straight adoption. Sometimes that's better than messing with the work (Bladerunner).

Johnny Storm

Total Recall has a few good moments like when Arnie pulls the bug out of his nose while shielding himself by wrapping a wet towel around his head :rolleyes: and of course there's Sharon Stone :cool: but it falls flat once they get to Mars.

IMHO the 5 or 6 page long PKD story that it's (very loosely) based on, while no literary gem, has about 10 times the amount of ideas, wit and complexity that the movie does.

Actually Total Recall does have one somewhat neat tip-of-the-hat to PKD in the form of the (ludicrous) robot taxi driver. Automated vehicles with attitude are a pretty common theme in PKD.

tyler71

Can't believe nobody's mentioned UBIK yet! Up there with the 3 stigmata as my favourite Dick novel, sort of the midway phase between his 'classic' sci-fi to his sort of drug enhanced religious stuff.
IMHO, Dick has had a lot of film adaptations because his stuff is essentially pure outline plot, with an easily explained outline that sells, not a lot of characterisation so a director can imprint his own vision (or lack of) onto it. So you get a few great films (Blade Runner), a lot of interesting watchable stuff (Total Recall, Minority Report) and some complete dogs (Pay Cheque). 'Vanilla Sky', although nothing to do with Dick officially, strikes me as one of the most Dick-like (Hmm not a good adverb) films I've seen, combines the ideas from two or three of his short stories.

indough

also 'southland tales' borrows very heavily from 'flow my tears' (a policeman,surname 'taverner' in the movie actually says 'flow my tears' at one stage, amongst other more significant simiarites i wont go into for spoiler purposes), and although its almost universally panned i thought it was an ok movie

Johnny Storm

tyler71 wrote: »

Can't believe nobody's mentioned UBIK yet!

Well, except for me, obviously