Selection of Mods

Saibh

This is my recollection of how mods were picked in AH as a poster on Boards.

There was a thread started asking regulars to nominate someone for mod - that time dr.bollocko was made mod.

Another thread was created sometime later - Rabies was appointed (as far as I can recall I don't think Rabies was mentioned as a potential mod).

In both cases, there wasn't a poll.

Rest of the mods as far as I remember were appointed without any threads started.

Posters/mods nominated are made mod, posters/mods not nominated were made mod.

IvySlayer

OK, forget the brilliant poll, I admitted earlier I didnt know it was a pisstake

My other questions still stand.

My name is URL

seamus wrote: »

This is probably what happened in this case. A mod should never PM a potential mod saying, "Would you like to mod the forum" before going to the admins. Because if the admins (or the Cmod) decide not to make them a mod for whatever reason, it puts people in awkward positions.

More recently the admins have been taking the mods' and Cmods' recommendations (because they can't know everyone), but in the case of high-profile posters, they may veto a particular user for whatever reason.

It's worth noting that previous bans aren't given as much weight as the poster's overall attitude and previous conduct on feedback. The admins need mods who consider the well being of the overall site and not just necessarily the forum(s) they mod. They need people they can be reasonably sure aren't going to create hassle.

You can read that to mean "They need team players" if you wish, but they need mods that they know aren't going to use their moderation abilities in grudges against users, are going to be relatively impersonal when it comes to moderating and aren't going to feed sensitive information to people who shouldn't know it. They also need people who know when to take a discussion into private and when to make it a public issue.

That's not a shot at you starting this thread URL - but it damages the credibility of the whole moderation system when moderators start questioning and attacking eachother in public or "airing their dirty laundry" unnecessarily. There are a number of people who have been prosposed as mods and shot down on that very basis.

If you're not satisfied with the answers Dav gave you, maybe PM him again and ask him to be brutally honest.

That seems fair enough, but how can anyone determine how a user will perform as a mod? I know that Mods need to be team players, and I've never held a grudge against any poster.. I don't see how that would be a reason for the decision made

I have been outspoken in feedback a few times, but is that not what Feedback is for?

As a user, this forum is the only place to air concerns etc. As a mod, there'd be less public ways of going about things

If the decision was made because of my past history in feedback then it seems unfair to this forum itself, because it pretty much means that people cannot bring up issues without the fear of them being used against you in future

WindSock

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

It looks like 2 separate points to me.

1) The poll was for the Lulzzzzz

and

2) URL was asked.

The two, seemingly, unconnected.

So someone went ahead and asked Url before they cleared it up with the Admins?

IITYWYBMAD

WindSock wrote: »

So someone went ahead and asked Url before they cleared it up with the Admins?

It would not be the first time.

Nevyn

while a poster maybe popular in a forum and while the mods of that forum may think they would be a good fit the admins are tasked with the over all well being of the site and site security and the final call is with them.

It can be as simple as they don't like the cut of your gib or don't think your mod stuff and good enough arguments were not made by those who nominated you and being popular with forum regs is never enough.

Finding good replacement mods for busy forums is hard, esp when they are to play forward the sites ethos and uphold the rules. Bloody hard for PI/RI.

Silverfish

I've gotten pm's a few times asking me would I like to mod a forum.
But it never ended up going anywhere. I know that unless I hear from an admin (or Cmod now) that it, for whatever reason, wasn't going ahead.

If a mod pm's asking would you be interested in modding a forum, it may not mean anything, it may just be a face-value would you be interested, can your hat be thrown in the ring sortof thing. They don't get the final say, the admins do.

So it really shouldn't be done without clearing it with an admin first, it does make the whole process longer but it does save that feeling.

Ponster

My name is URL wrote: »

That seems fair enough, but how can anyone determine how a user will perform as a mod? I know that Mods need to be team players, and I've never held a grudge against any poster.. I don't see how that would be a reason for the decision made...

While everything that seamus says is correct, I believe that there is an extra element required to be a good mod of AH (in the same way not all mods can mod PI or politics...)

Maybe someone felt that you didn't have that extra quality? Either way you didn't do anything wrong in the 'mod-selection-process' and I certainly wouldn't rule out you becoming mod of perhaps some other forum in the future.

WindSock

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

It would not be the first time.

In recent times?

Times were a mod of the forum would ask for a user to be added as a mod and it usually happened. Now there are procedures in place.

mike65

hey Silverfish, you're doing alright!

The Recliner

Silverfish wrote: »

I've gotten pm's a few times asking me would I like to mod a forum.
But it never ended up going anywhere. I know that unless I hear from an admin (or Cmod now) that it, for whatever reason, wasn't going ahead.

If a mod pm's asking would you be interested in modding a forum, it may not mean anything, it may just be a face-value would you be interested, can your hat be thrown in the ring sortof thing. They don't get the final say, the admins do.

So it really shouldn't be done without clearing it with an admin first, it does make the whole process longer but it does save that feeling.

Ah you have enough forums anyway

URL I feel for your plight, it seems like there was a mis-communication or a lack of it

These are things that have come up recently and are being worked on

I obviously don't know what the reasons were for you not being selected, it could be something as simple as they had other candidates who were suggested first and you might have been back up, however you aren't the first person this has happened too and hopefully if a few of the improvements that are being talked about happen then maybe you might be the last

seamus

My name is URL wrote: »

That seems fair enough, but how can anyone determine how a user will perform as a mod? I know that Mods need to be team players, and I've never held a grudge against any poster.. I don't see how that would be a reason for the decision made

I have been outspoken in feedback a few times, but is that not what Feedback is for?

As a user, this forum is the only place to air concerns etc. As a mod, there'd be less public ways of going about things

If the decision was made because of my past history in feedback then it seems unfair to this forum itself, because it pretty much means that people cannot bring up issues without the fear of them being used against you in future

I wasn't commented on your case specifically, I don't know the details, just outlining the usual reasons why such a request is turned down.

Yes it can be hard to determine who will and will not make a good mod, and mistakes have been made (both in appointing and not appointing) in the past. It's something of an unknown quantity, and sometimes a gut feeling will swing it either way for someone.

It's generally the case that where there's any doubt whatsoever, it'll be turned down. It's much harder to remove a modship from someone once you've given it to them, so the admins have to do their best to avoid making the wrong choice in the first place.

After Hours and some of the other forums (such as Soccer) are also given special consideration in that they're the "welcome lobby" for new people and are insanely busy. I would have always done my utmost to appoint existing mods to positions in AH because I was sure they could handle it.

WindSock

Maybe they thought you would lose teh funneh if you were made mod
Has happened before.

seamus

WindSock wrote: »

Maybe they thought you would lose teh funneh if you were made mod
Has happened before.

Indeed, for after hours in particular, the most popular posters don't always make the best mods because the role means that they need to reign in their posting style.

IITYWYBMAD

WindSock wrote: »

In recent times?

Times were a mod of the forum would ask for a user to be added as a mod and it usually happened. Now there are procedures in place.

I've no idea of the timescale tbh.

My name is URL

WindSock wrote: »

Maybe they thought you would lose teh funneh if you were made mod
Has happened before.

That wouldn't bother me tbh. If I had of been appointed I would have done my best to keep the forum running smoothly

There's not much else I can say really.. except that in cases where both users and mods and Cmods feel that someone is a good choice, maybe the Admins should give them the benefit of the doubt, even on a trial basis, to see how it works out

Ponster

My name is URL wrote: »

maybe the Admins should give them the benefit of the doubt, even on a trial basis, to see how it works out

It may seem to make sense but it's 100 times harder to de-mod then it is to pick the mod in the first place.
Sometimes it's just better to err of the side of caution when there's a doubt.

IITYWYBMAD

Ponster wrote: »

It may seem to make sense but it's 100 times harder to de-mod then it is to pick the mod in the first place.
Sometimes it's just better to err of the side of caution when there's a doubt.

How is it harder?

Time Magazine

Because if someone is demodded we'll all be up in arms unless there's a damn good reason.

WindSock

My name is URL wrote: »

That wouldn't bother me tbh. If I had of been appointed I would have done my best to keep the forum running smoothly

What I mean is, perhaps you are a valuable contributer to AH. Being a mod of it comes with restrictions.



''Great power, comes with great responsibility''

-Spidey's Uncle

seamus

Time Magazine wrote: »

Because if someone is demodded we'll all be up in arms unless there's a damn good reason.

^^This

"We're not making this guy a mod because we think he'll screw up"

is a whole lot less inflammatory than

"We're demodding this guy because he screwed up"

It's the implications of it. You could have a "probation period" for new mods, but then you're getting into HR policy time and someone has to maintain a conduct/HR record for every single mod.

Ponster

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

How is it harder?

It's not easy to describe but when you become a mod in Boards.ie, it's as though you rent a forum from the Admins. You can now do pretty much what ever you like with the place (to a certain point) and the longer you remain mod the easier it is to forget that the keys to our forum can be removed if we don't keep the place in order.

We also don't have a system in place to follow new mods and decide if they're doing the job well enough or not.

My name is URL

seamus wrote: »

^^This

"We're not making this guy a mod because we think he'll screw up"

is a whole lot less inflammatory than

"We're demodding this guy because he screwed up"

I don't see why that should be tbh. If someone screws up then there's a real reason to remove their modship.

To me, the former is more inflammatory

Earthhorse

Time Magazine wrote: »

Because if someone is demodded we'll all be up in arms unless there's a damn good reason.

But we're all up in arms because a mod wasn't appointed and there's no damn good reason. :pac:

seamus wrote: »

^^This

"We're not making this guy a mod because we think he'll screw up"

is a whole lot less inflammatory than

"We're demodding this guy because he screwed up"

That's odd, because the first is speculative whereas the second can be evidenced.

Anyway, I think the real issue is whether URL was given a false indication that he would be made mod and then not informed when the decision was reversed. I've been asked a few times by mods of AH whether I was interested in modding AH, but I knew it was a gauge of my interest rather than an offer to be made mod.

It's a communication during mod selection thing rather than a mod selection thing.

Ponster

My name is URL wrote: »

I don't see why that should be tbh. If someone screws up then there's a real reason to remove their modship.

To me, the former is more inflammatory

You may believe it to be but in reality it's just not the case.

Screw-up mods rarely get de-modded and the whole idea that an admin would have the power to remove a mod based on how they did their job is abhorrent to a *lot* of mods.

(a discussion for another thread though)....

Time Magazine

seamus wrote: »

It's the implications of it. You could have a "probation period" for new mods, but then you're getting into HR policy time and someone has to maintain a conduct/HR record for every single mod.

FYI there is a probation period now.

Earthhorse wrote: »

But we're all up in arms because a mod wasn't appointed and there's no damn good reason. :pac:

With absolutely no disrespect to My name is URL, we don't know that. There could be a good reason and we (but more importantly, he) haven't been told.

I think the main issue here is that the lad was left hanging, which I think is unfair. Had he been sent a polite PM from someone saying "Look, we're sorry, but we don't think you'd do a good job because of X, Y and Z" that'd probably be fair enough.

Nevyn

When you are made a mod you can make changes to the live data base and frankly doing the wrong thing can take the site down, it's a lot of responsiblity and trust.
And that is the technical side not the being a complete dick so that posters for year to come think the rest of us are complete knobends.


People were made mods in an expanding circle of trust that is how it worked but that can't work any more the site is too big and people don't all know each other any more.

Yes having existing mods vouch for you can help ( hell I had to do that with one of my current co mods, I do beleive the phrase "I know where they live" was invovled) and if they can put forward good arguements but the admins always have the final say.

It sucks that you were sorta led up the garden path, hopefully that won't happen to anyone else.

seamus

Earthhorse wrote: »

That's odd, because the first is speculative whereas the second can be evidenced.

The second opens up a whole can of worms where said evidence gets twisted into speculation and the severity of the screw-up becomes an issue etc etc etc.
So it's easier to try and not make people mods who might open the can of worms in the first place

My name is URL

Ponster wrote: »

You may believe it to be but in reality it's just not the case.

Screw-up mods rarely get de-modded and the whole idea that an admin would have the power to remove a mod based on how they did their job is abhorrent to a *lot* of mods.

(a discussion for another thread though)....

Well that just makes no sense to me at all. How is it less abhorrent to refuse to make someone mod when they've been recommended by other Mods than to remove someones modship for having screwed up?

Nevyn

Time Magazine wrote: »

FYI there is a probation period now.

Is there? Cos last time that was raised it was said there is not, there is a breakin in period where mods have to train in their new mod but thats it.

With absolutely no disrespect to My name is URL, we don't know that. There could be a good reason and we (but more importantly, he) haven't been told.

Time Magazine wrote: »

I think the main issue here is that the lad was left hanging, which I think is unfair. Had he been sent a polite PM from someone saying "Look, we're sorry, but we don't think you'd do a good job because of X, Y and Z" that'd probably be fair enough.

I agree, who ever approached him should have sorted it out.