Selection of Mods

The Recliner

Fingers McGee wrote: »

Why is that, because URL had a grievance and used feedback to air it? are you then suggesting that in order to be a mod you should sit quiet and never question anything?
Also, like someone has mentiond before, posting a thread in feedback is then going to be used against you. Sounds to me like that's what you are doing here



The whole point is that URL shouldn't have had to pm dav in the first place. When he did get an answer he wasn't satisfied with it and so used a thread in Feedback. Isn't this site supposed to be about transparency?

My name is URL wrote: »

How is it being childish? Is Feedback not supposed to be used for issues like this?

It wasn't meant as a shooting match at all, though I can see why you might think that.

Anybody is free to create a FB thread about something they feel is important.. just because others may have chosen not to, doesn't lessen the fact that I felt it was important

I may be mistaken about this but I thought that Feedback was to be used for site wide issues and Helpdesk for personal grievances

It may not have been the intention as this is a sitewide issue but it came across as a personal one which is I guess why people think it shouldn't ahve been a thread in feedback

It has turned out quite useful for all involved I reckon

OutlawPete wrote: »

Why would Admin choose three Mods who are not very very regular posters to AH?

Surely it means that the new MODs now have to change their Boards viewing habits.

Wouldn't it make more sense to MOD posters who are going to be on AH anyway, whether they MOD it or not?

I don't think I had ever posted once in PI before being asked to Mod it, hopefully that hasn't made me a bad PI Mod

Different forums require different things and sometimes bringing in someone from outside is a good thing as they bring different things with them, that being said I am all for Modding someone from within the community where possible

themadchef

koolkid wrote: »

Why not? Its only to find out if they are interested?
If you get asked would you like to win the lotto do you go out celebrating?
The existing mod(s) may see something in a person that would make them a good choice. Finding out if someone is interested is the logical first step.
The alternative is to take up CMod & Admins time looking into the user in question only to find they have no interest in the job.
It would really depend on how it was worded. But getting a PM asking are you interested should not give the impression its in the bag!

I would imagine the Admins are busy enough. They are not going to know every user with mod potential. From recommendation supplied by existing mods & Cmods they can then choose from a short list. But to ask an admin to browse around a forums long history every time a mod is needed would be a waste of their valuable time.

It all boils down to the wording used.

"Would you like to mod AH" or "There's a possibility we need a new mod on AH, would you like to be considered for this"

One sounds like a "do you want the job" and one sounds like it's meant to sound. "You will be considered if you are interested"

If a generic PM cant be available to all mods to send then there is the possibility of misunderstandings such as in URL's case IMO. So, again in my opinion, make it a standard PM for all from the mods, or dont PM at all. Leave it to the Admins to decide, based on mod reccomendations or their own personal choice. Let them draw up a top 3, and PM in order till someone says yes

Time Magazine

Thaedydal wrote: »

Duuuude, you posted in that thread.../facepalm.

Lol. Sorry.

IITYWYBMAD

Procedure *could* be:

Mod talks to CMod, 3 reccomendations given

CMod talks to Admin...yea or nay given.

Mod talks to users, mod appointed.

I can't see how the Admins would be all that busy, that a PM cannot be answered one way or the other.

Infact, the alternative suggested above, would potentially take up more of peoples time.

OutlawPete

The Recliner wrote: »

I don't think I had ever posted once in PI before being asked to Mod it, hopefully that hasn't made me a bad PI Mod

Different forums require different things and sometimes bringing in someone from outside is a good thing as they bring different things with them, that being said I am all for Modding someone from within the community where possible

I hope I didn't imply that a non-reg poster would make a bad Mod.

It's just that it would seem logical to give a Modship to someone who would be around the forum and know the posters and so can spot Trolls more easily etc.

MODs don't get paid and so I can't really see why someone would want to MOD a forum that they don't frequent.

Again, I'm sure the three new MODs are grand but just feel URL had all that someone would need to MOD and sure he's there all the time anyway, seems a waste not to MOD him.

The Recliner

OutlawPete wrote: »

I hope I didn't imply that a non-reg poster would make a bad Mod.

It's just that it would seem logical to give a Modship to someone who would be around the forum and know the posters and so can spot Trolls more easily etc.

MODs don't get paid and so I can't really see why someone would want to MOD a forum that they don't frequent.

Again, I'm sure the three new MODs are grand but just feel URL had all that someone would need to MOD and sure he's there all the time anyway, seems a waste not to MOD him.

Nah that wasn't what I was getting at, just pointing out that you don't have to post in a forum to Mod it

It obviously helps in certain forums and AH would be one forum where a fair portion of the Mods should be regulars

But from my experience if you are Mod of a forum you will become interested in it and protective of it and its posters so you get involved. I don't post much in Ah mainly cos I am busy elsewhere but if I was made Mod of Ah I am sure I would get much more involved and I am sure it will be the same for the new Mods

Plus like somewhere you don't post is new and interesting so it would take longer for the Mods to get jaded, most get jaded at some stage

Wibbs

The Recliner wrote: »

I don't think I had ever posted once in PI before being asked to Mod it, hopefully that hasn't made me a bad PI Mod

No way. Helluva mod, but I think PI and AH are special cases for different reasons. PI isnt really a community the way AH is. You could mod PI with mods who never posted there at all and I think it wouldnt change much. Do that with AH? Very different matter. Ditto with the other more social forums.

I think this part is being missed in the rush to generically apply rules everywhere. Its also at odds with the oft expressed notion that boards is so big now that its not a generic community anymore. So applying generic rules to a disparate bunch of communities seems a bit forced? Unless you want to have a layer of even more distant mods/cmods/admins and team players. Robo mods whose role it just to be mods. Extreme? Maybe, but I just sniff a slight whiff of time and motion stuff yet again.

Different forums require different things and sometimes bringing in someone from outside is a good thing as they bring different things with them, that being said I am all for Modding someone from within the community where possible

Agreed on both points. A balance is needed, but IMHO anyway AH has done pretty bloody well promoting the newbies Dr.B pointed out. And in the heaviest traffic forum and the biggest entry point on this entire site.

KoolKid

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

Procedure *could* be:

Mod talks to CMod, 3 reccomendations given

CMod talks to Admin...yea or nay given.

Mod talks to users, mod appointed.

I can't see how the Admins would be all that busy, that a PM cannot be answered one way or the other.

.

Thats pretty much the way it goes at the moment.
Number od recommendations may vary obviousally.
When saying the Admins are too busy I was referring to suggestions that they should decide who is suitable & the mods should not be asking who is interested or not.

Splinter

Splinter wrote: »

...if anything, your reaction here, URL, shows that they made the right choice in not giving you mod status.

Can't say i agree with this methodology at all.

ibarelycare wrote: »

but I don't think there's any need for toys to be thrown out of prams.

Thats also pretty disengenuous to say the least. He said in the OP he's not throwing a wobbler cos he didn't get it, just surprised that he didn't get a courtesy call to say he didn't get it, and outlining why not.

6th wrote: »

You're in the circle jerk now.

Fixed :pac:

Edit: Also, very good post, as always, by The Medical Testicle* (Dr. on the previous page.





*© Wibbs 2010

K-9

Wibbs wrote: »

I think this part is being missed in the rush to generically apply rules everywhere. Its also at odds with the oft expressed notion that boards is so big now that its not a generic community anymore. So applying generic rules to a disparate bunch of communities seems a bit forced? Unless you want to have a layer of even more distant mods/cmods/admins and team players. Robo mods whose role it just to be mods. Extreme? Maybe, but I just sniff a slight whiff of time and motion stuff yet again.

Indeed. It does seem strange that the 3 mods appointed wouldn't be AH regulars IMO. Maybe 1 is, not sure.

3 very good appointments as I'm aware of them from other forums, but it does seem to contradict the sub community feel that seems to be the way forward being mapped for the site.

I thought only 1 new mod was going to be appointed. I was a bit surprised that of the 3 appointed, they all don't appear to be AH regulars.

Overheal

I was asked recently if I would like to mod a forum, though the mod in question asked me with the pretense that I probably was not a popular choice - and I was inclined to agree and referred someone else.

I never heard anything back except when the person I referred showed up as the new mod.

I dont know what happened with your Exchange though URL. I'd have been put off if it was implied to me that I was getting the position only to hear Bupkis.

LoLth

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

Procedure *could* be:

Mod talks to CMod, 3 reccomendations given

CMod talks to Admin...yea or nay given.

Mod talks to users, mod appointed.

I can't see how the Admins would be all that busy, that a PM cannot be answered one way or the other.

Infact, the alternative suggested above, would potentially take up more of peoples time.

Currently my take on the process is:

mod retires and recommends replacement to co-mods.
"bob would be good"

co-mods talk it over and put up a pool of potential mods they would like to work with based on whatever cirteria are decided by the mods. this includes whether or not the mods feel they would be comfortable workign with them

"we like bob. we also like joe and we also like fred. kate would be good too"

that pool goes to the cmod who may or may not double check with the mods over a suggestion
"well bob was ex-mods choice, joe is ok, Fred has been in a lot of trouble in that other sub-section of the category so thats a no, no idea about Kate"

Admins discuss the suggested mods:
"bob was recommended but he's been banned from 2 other categories and has had issues with other mods. Joe is ok, kate was already asked to mod a different forum and said she didnt want to be a mod as it was too much work"

the admins come back to the cmod:
"Joe gets thumbs up. no problem with kate but she mightnt want to do it"

cmod goes to mods:
"I've asked both of these guys and Joe has said ok"

mods:
"cool"

everyone:
"yay!"

Joe:
"respect mah authoritah!"

now, where along the lines of communication is a PM sent? to say yes or no?

personally I would say its *after* the admins discuss it and the cmod talks to the mods. whether the "are you interested" PM is sent by the cmod before talking to the mods or sent by a mod after talking to the cmod is a matter of personal preference. I think a Pm should be sent to one user at a time in the remaining mod's order of preference until one says yes. this avoids false hopes and disappointment.

As for a PM not being answered: who's Pm wasnt answered?

In this situation there was a breakdown in communication, perhaps cmod thought the admin would Pm URL and the admins thought the cmods were handling it or th ecmods and mods got their wires crossed. It happens. URL pmed to see what was up, he got an answer, he didnt think the answer was detailed enough and so he could have PMed for a further explaination or created a thread here. No one has ever said he couldnt question the decision or request further details.

Is the process time consuming? yes. But I for one would rather be criticised for taking my time making the right choice than be criticised by mods for forcing a bad apple onto their team and having users flood the helpdesk with "look what X mod did now!" and having a cmod get stressed about dealing with elevated user complaints and mod/co-mod complaints. selecting the wrong mod can potentially make the boards.ie experience worse for everyone at all levels and popularity does not necessarily mean the choice is the right one, its just that little bit easier when the right choice is also the popular one.

oh, and speaking as someone who accidentally modded someone and then had to go and de-mod that person I can attest to the fact that yes, it is a lot easier and less stressful to make a mod than it is to take the permissions away again and send another Pm explaining why you are de-modding them.

My name is URL

LoLth wrote: »

Is the process time consuming? yes. But I for one would rather be criticised for taking my time making the right choice than be criticised by mods for forcing a bad apple onto their team and having users flood the helpdesk with "look what X mod did now!" and having a cmod get stressed about dealing with elevated user complaints and mod/co-mod complaints. selecting the wrong mod can potentially make the boards.ie experience worse for everyone at all levels and popularity does not necessarily mean the choice is the right one, its just that little bit easier when the right choice is also the popular one.

What exactly would you be basing the idea that I'm a "bad apple" on?

You say you'd sooner be criticised for taking time to make the right choice rather than forcing someone on to the Mod list.. The Mods and Cmod thought I was the right choice, and you disagreed with them, that's fair enough.. nothing should be forced on anyone

Should Mods not be given the benefit of the doubt though? It's not about popularity, it's about what the people involved in running the forum think is best for it

Really the only reasons I've been given so far is that I don't use Boards in a way that Admins see fit, more to have a laugh on without engaging in serious discussion. Which imo, is a funny thing to base the decision on, particularly for a forum like AH

I know it's difficult for people reading this, not knowing the full extent of what was said in PMs etc. Sorry about that

LoLth

My name is URL wrote: »

What exactly would you be basing the idea that I'm a "bad apple" on?

You say you'd sooner be criticised for taking time to make the right choice rather than forcing someone on to the Mod list.. The Mods and Cmod thought I was the right choice, and you disagreed with them, that's fair enough.. nothing should be forced on anyone

Should Mods not be given the benefit of the doubt though? It's not about popularity, it's about what the people involved in running the forum think is best for it

Really the only reasons I've been given so far is that I don't use Boards in a way that Admins see fit, more to have a laugh on without engaging in serious discussion. Which imo, is a funny thing to base the decision on, particularly for a forum like AH

I know it's difficult for people reading this, not knowing the full extent of what was said in PMs etc. Sorry about that

I wasnt actually talking about you in all of this post, I was responding to speculation on the mod selection process and I wasnt inferring that you would be a "bad apple" or that you would be forced upon the mod team against their will.

The only direct reference I made to your case was that I do believe that the communication failed but I dont know exactly where it happened. In this case i dont know who had the responsibility of contacting you. if its any consolation to you, I was deliberately not involved in the decision as I dont know anything about you or your posting style or boards usage style so I thought it would be unfair for me to have a say in something that would affect you. The other admins would think in pretty much the same way.

When it comes to someone not getting selected for mod, in general, it doesnt mean that they arent suitable to be a mod or that they arent ever going to be considered as a mod in the future, it jsut means that there was a preferable choice in the pool of potentials presented to the admins.
If a mod doesnt think someone is mod material for the forum at that time, they dont get the position. If a cmod doesnt think someone is mod material for a category at that time, they dont get the position, if an Admin doesnt think someone is mod material for boards at that time they dont get the position. the process is at an end for an applicant at any one of those three stages, the cmods + mods make up two thirds of the decision process as well as the mods setting the initial paramters of the choice. That seems to me like the mods do actually have quite a bit of input and responsibility when choosing a new moderator for their forum.

the mods are given great control over who gets chosen and my personal emphasis would be on the remain mods preference over the departing mod as its the remaining mods that have to work with the replacement. Its the mods that select the initial pool of replacements. No addition is made to that pool without consulting the mods, either by a cmod or by the admins and even then the consultation is more suggestion and not "I want X to be considered". I , personally, have made a suggestion of a mod to be added to a pool but i made it clear that this was not in an admin capacity and that when the pool came up to the admins for review I wouldnt be involved with the selection. The suggestion was made to a cmod who then discussed it with the mods wihtout my participation or influence.

AlmightyCushion

Alot of this is my fault. I was mistaken about the process and asked url if he was interested in it before consulting with the admins. My bad, url. Apologies. To add insult to injury I had planned to pm him letting him know it was a no-go but was busy trying to sort out new mods for after hours because we were short and it skipped my mind. Sorry, url.

oscarBravo wrote: »

We take those into account, but they don't have ultimate responsibility for the decision. At the end of the day, we have to look at the bigger picture, and being a popular AH poster doesn't necessarily make you a good moderator.

This has really pissed me off. Not because the admins are saying once again that we only select mods because they are popular or that url was only selected because he is popular but because when they last said it I pointed out pretty bloody clearly that it wasn't the case. It was because the mods of after hours thought he would make a good mod. Seriously, did you guys even read my posts or did you just start ignoring the points I made after you shot him down.

Here's the post you missed ob.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64095567#post64095567
And also two posts down.

This shows that you guy clearly didn't even bother reading my posts as if you did ye'd ****ing know that we didn't choose him because he was ****ing popular.

minidazzler

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

This shows that you guy clearly didn't even bother reading my posts as if you did ye'd ****ing know that we didn't choose him because he was ****ing popular.

Along with this, in the mod nomination thread, fake as it may be, people who were nominating URL, weren't saying "He's funny", he isn't seen as a walking meme, we were saying he would make a good mod, which in fairness he would!

I've met the guy, level head, I have read his posts, I don't think I have ever seen him go off on someone, or seen a held grudge.

He is a good poster, and would be a good mod, but with the more corporate direction of boards, maybe he doesn't fit in?

Dudess

ibarelycare wrote: »

I don't think there's any need for toys to be thrown out of prams.

Not fair.

As dr.bollocko said, people who did not have modding experience have been made mods of AH based on being regular posters there, which would have made URL an ideal choice IMO.

stovelid

Not being facetious either, but the losing the funneh rule usually comes into play. And that's not a criticism. From what I've seen, some of the most irreverent former posters take their duties seriously when they become mods.

oscarBravo

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Not because the admins are saying once again that we only select mods because they are popular...

With all due respect, I never said that.

... or that url was only selected because he is popular but because when they last said it I pointed out pretty bloody clearly that it wasn't the case. It was because the mods of after hours thought he would make a good mod.

Yes, I realise that, but at the end of the day, it's the admins' call to make.

K-9

stovelid wrote: »

Not being facetious either, but the losing the funneh rule usually comes into play. And that's not a criticism. From what I've seen, some of the most irreverent former posters take their duties seriously when they become mods.

While I hate seeing the "losing the funneh" posts, there is some truth to it. Wibbs pointed out how it becomes harder to devote the same time as a poster, when a mod. AH can't be an easy place to mod either, it can be hard to "keep the funneh" there as a poster, never mind a Mod.

Maybe that was part of the reasoning in not appointing "in house" this time?

flahavaj

My name is URL wrote: »

Without going to far into the details of what happened, I was asked a month ago if I'd like to Mod AH.. I said yes and didn't hear anything back

I had to PM Dav to see what was happening and he informed me that the Admin team decided that I was not Mod material

There was a poll on AH a while back where users were asked to choose who they would like to see as Mod.. (I know the poll was a pisstake)

I also know that other mods and even the Cmod had recommended me for the position, which is how I thought Mods were selected?

The reasons Dav gave me sounded quite generic. Sure I have a few blemishes on my record here but other current mods have worse

Could an Admin not have contacted me directly to inform me what the issues were about making me Mod?

No doubt you'll think I'm just bitter about the decision made, but I'm not.. I'm just annoyed that I was messed around with and led to believe that I was going to be made mod without any Admin taking the time to explain to me why I wouldn't

Same thing has happened me in the pst but I didn't set up a poll crying about it.

I think you care more than you're letting on tbh.

Sharpshooter

oscarBravo wrote: »

Yes, I realise that, but at the end of the day, it's the admins' call to make.

But, would it not be communicating with both AHs mods and users, with URL's agreement to state why?

And I do mean with URL's agreement.

It is very up in the air atm and so far I cannot see anything from Admin being posted to enlighten all who have a vested interest in this matter.

In fairness, all they and URL want is an answer so they can go away saying " Oh, right" or " Well, now I understand".

K-9

Sharpshooter wrote: »

But, would it not be communicating with both AHs mods and users, with URL's agreement to state why?

And I do mean with URL's agreement.

It is very up in the air atm and so far I cannot see anything from Admin being posted to enlighten all who have a vested interest in this matter.

In fairness, all they and URL want is an answer so they can go away saying " Oh, right" or " Well, now I understand".

I don't know, I thought URL did get his "well, now I understand" moment on this thread, but it's for him to answer.

That_Guy

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised that URL wasn't named a mod of AH. He's a great poster and I think he would've done a good job in that forum as he posts there a lot and is a well balanced poster. Honestly I've never seen Magnus, Super Rush or The Master post that much in AH.

I know they're mods of other forums but AH is a total different kettle of fish to the likes of the Galway forum, Carlow forum or Airsoft. I don't mean any offence whatsoever to those forums but AH is such a busy forum and provokes a lot of trolls to post in there.

The poll that was posted in AH a while ago about nominations as to who would make a good AH mod was a an absolute joke and in the end resulted in false hope for URL who ran away with the votes.

I wish the new mods of AH the best of luck but honestly I've not seen too many posts from the new mods and would rather have a mod who posts in AH regularly and who knows what the forum is all about.

AlmightyCushion

That_Guy wrote: »

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised that URL wasn't named a mod of AH. He's a great poster and I think he would've done a good job in that forum as he posts there a lot and is a well balanced poster. Honestly I've never seen Magnus, Super Rush or The Master post that much in AH.

I know they're mods of other forums but AH is a total different kettle of fish to the likes of the Galway forum, Carlow forum or Airsoft. I don't mean any offence whatsoever to those forums but AH is such a busy forum and provokes a lot of trolls to post in there.

The poll that was posted in AH a while ago about nominations as to who would make a good AH mod was a an absolute joke and in the end resulted in false hope for URL who ran away with the votes.

I wish the new mods of AH the best of luck but honestly I've not seen too many posts from the new mods and would rather have a mod who posts in AH regularly and who knows what the forum is all about.

You may not see it but they do post there, they just aren't as active as some of our regulars. They would be averaging a couple of posts per day in after hours or did when I was looking into them anyways. Which is fairly active in the forum. Hell, it's more than me right now. Plus magnus (also known as biko) is a part of after hours folklore.

I understand the importance of having someone who is active in the forum as a mod. It's not as important in smaller forums but in after hours I feel it's essential. I actually turned down some of the other suggestions because the people suggested weren't very active in after hours. Still good people who would probably mod it very well but they would be more reactive whereas someone who uses the forum quite a bit would be more proactive and nip stuff in the bud before it becomes a **** storm.

Kirnsy

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

You may not see it but they do post there, they just aren't as active as some of our regulars. They would be averaging a couple of posts per day in after hours or did when I was looking into them anyways. Which is fairly active in the forum. Hell, it's more than me right now. Plus magnus (also known as biko) is a part of after hours folklore.

I understand the importance of having someone who is active in the forum as a mod. It's not as important in smaller forums but in after hours I feel it's essential. I actually turned down some of the other suggestions because the people suggested weren't very active in after hours.Still good people who would probably mod it very well but they would be more reactive whereas someone who uses the forum quite a bit would be more proactive and nip stuff in the bud before it becomes a **** storm.

that's a perfect description of the current mods. I have to say that the likes of TheZohan, Frada etc were inspired choices because instead of doing it exactly by the book the current mods analyse a situation and deal out warnings and gentle reminders when needed and whip out the banstick as a last resort (or when obvious trolling). As such we now have IMO a very smooth and enjoyable AH experience. IMO Dr Bollocko also was a fantastic mod and led by example when modding. I think URL would have fit perfectly into the modding role in AH and its a pity he wasn't selected.

And agreed with AC and mini dazzler, the folk of AH didn't just give him a landslide backing because he's funny/popular. AH has its share of funny/ridiculous and serious threads and the posters are capable of posting in all of them (bar a few). Url contributed in all types of threads as well as getting involved AFAIK in a very successful beers. All in all a very worthy candidate.

WindSock

I don't know what the criteria is for selecting and not selecting proposed users. Maybe there is some sort of a psychological profile sheet that is looked at against a sample of posts or something. However if that is the case, I don't know how I managed to slip through the cracks...















dammit WS, don't draw attention to yourself.

Nevyn

The thing is being a mod is like being an ice berg at times.
I'd say only 1/3 of the things I do as a mod is seen by posters.

The other 2/3 are dealing wiht things which are not pubically viewable on the forums.
From explaining how the forums work, to the follow up when someone is infracted/banned, dealing with all sorts of complaints and requests, discussion with my co mods and with cat mods and admins none of which users get to see, but the cat mods and admins will.

So while a poster who in thier time frame snap shot per day on boards sees someone
be they a poster or a mod to be a certain way there is always a lot more going on.

Mods,Admins and boards I guess are a bit like swans, most posters will never see the
at times frantic paddling which is going on but the seemingly effortless gliding along.

--amadeus--

Fair play to AC, never easy to make a public admission of fault and it takes a big man to do it.

I don't know URL so I don't know the specifics but a couple of general points.

First the old system (about a year ago) was that Mods picked someone, sounded them out and if they wanted the gig a PM was sent to an Admin. Admin had a look at the poster and either said yay or nay. Even though there were only a couple of active Admins at the time the turnaround in getting me modded was something like 24 - 48 hours.

Now we have a "procedure". Mods discuss. Mods pick pool of candidates. without speaking to any of them they forward this pool to the CMods. They - one step removed from the forum - decide who on the list they are happy with, I assume following some discussion. This gets forwarded to Admins. Again I assume they discuss and - again a further step removed from the actual forum - they pick a Mod. They tell the CMods who in turn tell the Mods. Oh and someone gets in touch with the poster and says "hey, wanna be a Mod?". I assume that if they say yes this is then fed back through CMod to Admin who then pushes the button. God help us if they say No because then you're back to the start...

Now what collective brain thought that this was an improvement? It's a perfect case study in muddied thinking and "making busy", pointless and utterly redundant steps and a couple of weeks after my replacement was selected by the Mods of A/R/T they are still waiting for the process to spit out a new Mod. Pointless, devoid of rhyme or reason and it is process centered thinking that has no thought for teh poor fools at the bottom of the chain.

My second point is the subtle shift in the Admin role in Mod appointments following the expansion of the Admin team. As OB points out it is teh Admins call who to make a Mod.

However in the not so distant past that call was one of veto. The Mods nominated a new co-mod and Admin could look at them and say "ummm, no, I'd rather you had someone else".

Now though the Mods present a list of names and Admin picks the most suitable, by thier definition.

It's a small difference but there has been a lot of reference in the recent past to "circles of trust". Admins used to trust the Mods - the people who knew the forums - to self select. Now they don't, the control is firmly in thier hands.

Nevyn

Eh I don't think it's that different only that the cat mods get a say, I am currently in the process of a new mod being added to one of the forums under my remit and there has only been one name put before the admins and if it's a no then the process will start again.

As the site gets bigger and there is more and more mod automony the admins have to be sure of who is selected other wise if a forum turns into a cabal and there is no over sigth you can end up with that communities culture being too out of line with the site rules and culture.