Steam(ing) heap of ****, getting a refund on a PC game?

ttm

Picked up a PC computer game in GameStop this afternoon and my system meets all the relevant requirements including internet connection for Steam activation.

But game requirements fail to mention that the game won't play untill you have done a massive update of unknow size (after 3 hours of updating it shows as 0% updated).

OK so I don't mind connecting to a server to validate the software before I play the game but I didn't pay 40euro to waste an evening downloading to get the game to play.

So where do I stand if I take the game back to the store tomorrow?

aidan_walsh

The game is not faulty and PC games have been requiring updates for almost as long as their have been PC games (hell, now that fun has come to console games) so personally I wouldn't imagine very far at all.

ttm

I've no problem with updates but the installation requirements don't say you need to update the game before you play it and the only option is to update via steam. Any other system of updating would allow me to see how big the download was or to do a sperate download of a patch.

My point is the game won't play at all without an update of god knows what size and there is no mention of this in the game requirements.

Having to activate via the internet was almost enough to put me off, next time I'll know to follow my gut instincts.

Won't be buying anything that need Steam activation in future thats for sure.

Oh well tough luck on whoever is working in GameStop tomorrow the customer from hell will be calling.

jhegarty

What's the game ?

aidan_walsh

Patching before playing is pretty much the norm with Steam games as I recall.

Outkast_IRE

I cant see you getting a refund on this as there is nothing wrong with the game , any problems are between you and developer and steam , iv had plenty of games over the last year or two that required steam activation and they all went fine , try again later id say and leave it update.

fuelinjection

Check your firewall or Norton/McAfee is allowing the program through. I had problems before and there can be settings somtimes on the updater program that help speed up the download.

It's okay if you leave it run overnight. Regular patches are released that you have to download in order to play as well. It's part of the package and I suppose security from hacks and viruses.

docdolittle

Start steam in offline mode and play from there

ttm

Game is Empire Total war.

I don't mind playing buggy games and updating and patching as I've worked in software development and understand all the problems of getting a product out on time, but if it can't play it at all without an update as it seems atm, then I feel I've meet the game requirements which I got my glasses out for and read before buying but the game hasn't lived up to them.

Dyr

I've known guy's who've gotten refunds for games because they were crap..so who knows

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/sec0010.html#zza16y1980s10

"Goods are of merchantable quality if they are as fit for the purpose or purposes for which goods of that kind are commonly bought and as durable as it is reasonable to expect having regard to any description applied to them, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances, and any reference in this Act to unmerchantable goods shall be construed accordingly."

I'm no fancy big city lawyer but you might have an argument that the goods were not fit for purpose.

derfderf

I just had an empire:total war flashback.

ttm

I've had refunds for games before ;-) But not from GameStop

There's nothing blocking Steam, I go out to the Internet through an ISA server that I set up a year or so back when I was going to take the MS exam and have already been through opening ports for Steam updates for my son so I know thats not a problem. I wouldn't have MaAfee/Norton on one of my sytems so again thats not a problem.

The Steam updater even gives me an update speed, just no indication that anything is updated.

I've just tried steam in ofline mode and it just crashes, must check the error.

Edit> Just found how to start up in offline mode as opposed to switch to offline mode and offline mode just starts the updater ready for the update but does nothing as its offline?

ttm

derfderf wrote: »

I just had an empire:total war flashback.

That doesn't sound good

fuelinjection

ttm wrote: »

I've just tried steam in ofline mode and it just crashes, must check the error.

Edit> Just found how to start up in offline mode as opposed to switch to offline mode and offline mode just starts the updater ready for the update but does nothing as its offline?

Hmmm ... I never had that problem.
As far as I know you can bring back a game if you are not happy with it, just make your case in person - firm but polite and you should get your money back.
If not, switch to nuclear mode.

PacManFan

Firstly, you're not legally entitled to a refund as the good is not faulty. In essence, it's a change of mind and even a credit note is more than the shop would be required to give. However, since it's a PC game I think it might have the same restrictions as a DVD. If you return it once opened, you can only get the same DVD so as to prevent people copying it/watching it and returning it later.

Cabaal

A game updating itself before playing, whatever next!

If the updates are stuck at 0% I hightly doubt this is down to problems on Steam itself (for example it being down) and is more likely down to your PC/router config.

thebman

ttm wrote: »

I've had refunds for games before ;-) But not from GameStop

There's nothing blocking Steam, I go out to the Internet through an ISA server that I set up a year or so back when I was going to take the MS exam and have already been through opening ports for Steam updates for my son so I know thats not a problem. I wouldn't have MaAfee/Norton on one of my sytems so again thats not a problem.

The Steam updater even gives me an update speed, just no indication that anything is updated.

Click view bandwidth monitor. If its as soon as you start steam then its trying to update steam itself which isn't a big download and it isn't getting passed your firewall/antivirus software.

I've just tried steam in ofline mode and it just crashes, must check the error.

Edit> Just found how to start up in offline mode as opposed to switch to offline mode and offline mode just starts the updater ready for the update but does nothing as its offline?

For Offline mode to work properly you have to turn off all your network connections I've found. Otherwise it will try to go out over any network card that might be able to get a connection. Pit of a pain.

Overall though Steam is great and worth the little problems. You'll get free updates, once activated over Steam, you'll be able to download it again to any other computer using Steam so the disc is no longer even important. Then you have friends lists, voice chats and fast updates to download games.

Steam will tell you have much time is left in the download and its current download speed in the bandwidth monitor and you can work out the total download size from that. If its a big update it is probably a significant fix or brings new functionality to the game if its something like Team Fortress 2 for example, crap loads of new features released after the game went to retail.

What is the game?

ttm

Thanks for all the replies, thebman suggestion of checking the Bandwidth Monitor was particularly useful comming as it did after Cabaals less useful opinions.

Bandwith monitor gave me the same info I already had from ISA Server that everything is connecting and downloading fine, but the Steam My Games page gives me no information other than...

Games:: Empire:Total War Status:: Updating: 0%, 8.2KB

The problem is my ISDN connection speed, however the box only says "Requires Internet Connection And Free Steam Account To Activate", which is not the same as saying the software will need to do a download that needs a Broadband connection before you can play the game.

I'll give it another hour downloading and go and do some strimming in the garden if its not done by then I'll go and be a very nice customer from Hell :rolleyes:

Cabaal

ttm wrote: »

The problem is my ISDN connection speed, however the box only says "Requires Internet Connection And Free Steam Account To Activate", which is not the same as saying the software will need to do a download that needs a Broadband connection before you can play the game.

Requires internet connection shows that this is a basic requirement,

Did you think it was going to require it and not use it?
One of the benefits of Steam is that it'll auto download patches for your games,

ttm

Cabaal wrote: »

Requires internet connection shows that this is a basic requirement,

Did you think it was going to require it and not use it?
One of the benefits of Steam is that it'll auto download patches for your games,

I just read the words on the box, the enclosed leaflet says "You only need to connect to the internet once". Now I don't need to think that hard to think that means I connect to the in the internet once activate the game and never have to connect again unless I want to update or play online.

Explaining the benefits of Steam is hardly relevant when I can't even get to play the game.

Adyx

I find sometimes that right-clicking on the game in Steam and selecting Launch Game gives it the impetus to download or update properly if it's stuck or slow. That said, considering your attitude, if you don't get it working, I hope you don't get your money back.

ttm

Adyx wrote: »

I find sometimes that right-clicking on the game in Steam and selecting Launch Game gives it the impetus to download or update properly if it's stuck or slow. That said, considering your attitude, if you don't get it working, I hope you don't get your money back.

I probably won't but I'm off to see now.

ttm

10/10 for GameStop. As they say if you don't ask you don't get. I explained to one of the staff who knows me as a regular customer exactly what I had done including the fact that I had used the key which obviously wasn't in my best interest but was at least honest. It was the obvious conversation about the wording on the back of the box and went from can't do anything via leaving it for the manager on Monday (escalating the issue was fine by me) and eventually the question I was waiting for "is there anything else you'd like" (in the shop) and when I said "no, but a credit note would be OK" (they know I'm in buying stuff every week) I was given a refund to a GameStop Gift Card, result .

In this case I doubt I'd have taken it any further even if the shop had said sorry but no, however GameStop have kept a regular customer and generated good will which in the long run will probably make them more money than if they'd have said no and I didn't go back there for a while. I've just looked in my receipts folder (yes I keep them all) and I really do spend far to much in that shop :rolleyes:

Yawns

Glad you got your money back n all but in fairness


Games:: Empire:Total War Status:: Updating: 0%, 8.2KB

That is such a terrible speed a small basic update would take forever. Which internet connection ( if any ) it it require. If I remember right from a few years ago now, they had on the back a minimum internet speed required. Ie 56k, 1 mb etc etc

ch750536

Couldn't you have taken the PC to the store and done the update from there?

Bit of a pain I know but seems like a game you want & once the update is done it would be fine (till the next update).

Amalgam

Nice one OP, I think some posters were quick to judge, the fact that the game needed an update to *play at all* was your main point. Granted, many games need updates, but *are* playable, out of the packaging.

ttm

Yawns wrote: »

Glad you got your money back n all but in fairness


Games:: Empire:Total War Status:: Updating: 0%, 8.2KB

That is such a terrible speed a small basic update would take forever. Which internet connection ( if any ) it it require. If I remember right from a few years ago now, they had on the back a minimum internet speed required. Ie 56k, 1 mb etc etc

Very good point. I was in fact looking for similar wording and as I didn't find any I bought the game. If the box had even mentioned Broadband I would have left in on the shelf. My only previous experience of Steam was having to allow the ports on my firewall for my sons computer to connect to Steam and activate a game and it took him about 20mins (can't remember the game).

The shop treated me very well and if the game had at least allowed me to start it (even if it crashed for want of an upgrade) I wouldn't have considered taking it back. Its not unusual for me to have a list in my pocket of larger updates I need which I download whenever I get the chance on a faster network, Steam afaik won't let me update that way and possibly the most annoying thing was it gave me no indication of how big the download I needed (in total if the sessions add up I must have downloaded about 100meg). I'm guessing it was Steam itself doing an update rather than the game, but can't be sure, either that or the update was so big for the game 100MB was still counting as 0% on the update scale.

Interesting point from the shop, they said they send all returned games back to Dublin to be checked as even if I'd said I hadn't activated the game they would have no way of knowing and wouldn't put it back on the shelf. Also the reason I said I'd activated the game as no point someone else buying the game and then not being able to activate.

ch750536 wrote: »

Couldn't you have taken the PC to the store and done the update from there?

Bit of a pain I know but seems like a game you want & once the update is done it would be fine (till the next update).

I don't give up that easily, asked them but they couldn't help. I could have taken my PC around to friends house and tried but if it really was a GigaByte or more download that seemed a little much to expect, as it is I'd have to have driven a fair way as best connection you can get near me other than ISDN is "Midband" LOL. Which brings up another point you'd be a bit pissed off if Steam did a DVD sized update if you were on a 10 or 15GB download limit. I read some where of one user having to do a 4.6GB download before he could play a Steam controlled game.

Amalgam wrote: »

Nice one OP, I think some posters were quick to judge, the fact that the game needed an update to *play at all* was your main point. Granted, many games need updates, but *are* playable, out of the packaging.

Exactly.

ch750536

Felt I should add a final note here in case anyone reading this was deterred from buying a steam game...

Yes you need a good net connection but what you buy is the best possible platform for licences. If you lose your disk etc just download it again for free from steam. Never again have to buy a game 3 times as the kids use them for frisbees. An excellent service for those with broadband.

I know a couple of games that I downloaded directly were a few gig, took a day to download but that was without the DVD.

Cabaal

ch750536 wrote: »

Yes you need a good net connection but what you buy is the best possible platform for licences. If you lose your disk etc just download it again for free from steam. Never again have to buy a game 3 times as the kids use them for frisbees. An excellent service for those with broadband.

I know a couple of games that I downloaded directly were a few gig, took a day to download but that was without the DVD.

Fully agree, Steam is an excellent content distribution system,

Games can be re-downloaded at anytime as you need them, I have games I bought off it 6-7 years ago and I can reinstall them at anytime without any problems

In addition unlike installing a game of a DVD and then patching it Steam makes sure you always have the latest patches and add-ons available.

You can also pre-loadb (predownload) games before launch.
So take the new AvP which is out next week.

You can download it all today if you buy it and simply activate it the date/time it launches so you'll be able to play it the second it goes live.

MOH

STeam can be great, but can be a pain if it goes wrong.
I never really forgave it for Half Life 2, didn't have a broadband connection, and like the OP, didn't equate "requires internet connection for activation" with "requires broadband for massive download of half the game before you can play".

Had no problem with it for years, then over Christmas spent 3 hours on a train staring out the window after Steam decided it needed to update itself and wouldn't start in offline mode, leaving me with no access to my games.

thebman

MOH wrote: »

STeam can be great, but can be a pain if it goes wrong.
I never really forgave it for Half Life 2, didn't have a broadband connection, and like the OP, didn't equate "requires internet connection for activation" with "requires broadband for massive download of half the game before you can play".

Had no problem with it for years, then over Christmas spent 3 hours on a train staring out the window after Steam decided it needed to update itself and wouldn't start in offline mode, leaving me with no access to my games.

yeah if it won't go into offline mode, just disable your network connections and it works out that it can't update. It seems to be a bug/feature when you select offline mode that if a network connection is available, it will still try to use it at certain times and give you a network error even though its supposed to be starting in offline mode.

I only worked out the above fix after pulling my hair out