League Of Ireland Set Up

SantryRed

Just wondering what people's preferences are in regards the set up of the LOI. Do you actually like the set up of a ten team PD? Does playing the same team four times in a season not get boring?

I'm personally in favour of a 16 team Premier Division, I think that Derbies and Rivalries are really starting to lose the edge that they have due to players and fans just getting used to it. I'd much rather be looking forward to derbies knowing that this is the only time they'll be in Tolka that season, knowing they'll be back really takes the edge off the games IMO.

What are people's thoughts? Prefer the ten team set up?

(And before people think I'm saying this just because Shels are in the FD you're mistaken Even if Shels do take Cork's place in the PD I'd be in favour of a 16 team PD)

Xavi6

I would personally prefer, as you say, a bigger Premier Division but where does that leave the First Division?

No way would you get 16 teams to fill that as well.

Pure_Cork

The First Division is better than the Premier because playing every team 4 times (especially the likes of UCD and Fingal next season) is too much. The greater geographic spread in the First Division is also a bonus.

CiaranC

Hate playing teams 4+ times a season. Its just all wrong.

SantryRed

Xavi6 wrote: »

I would personally prefer, as you say, a bigger Premier Division but where does that leave the First Division?

No way would you get 16 teams to fill that as well.

The A Championship is there now as a precedent though. It could be a ten team A Championship with the remaining sides of the FD and the sides already in the A Championship.

fh041205

I liked the 12 team division tbh. If you took the top 12 teams from LOI at the moment you'd have a pretty strong competition. Then you'd be into the whole 3 meetings a season thing, which means one team will have more home games than the other, which is a tad unfair I admit.

It would be nice to change it too a 16 team just to see how it would go. I'd worry that there would be far to mny teams stuck in mid-table with nothing to play for, long before the season ends. Look at last year, when every single team had something to play for on the last day. All 10 teams were still in the race, thats a big positive for the 10 team argument.

_blank_

Ireland isn't big enough for a 16 team top division.

Perhaps if it was an all-island league then it would be a go, but not just the LoI

Ferris_Bueller

In my opinion, the league needs a major makeover. Problem number 1 for me is that 22 teams is not enough for 2 leagues, look at leagues across Europe, many of them have 20 teams in 1 league, yet we try to divide 22 teams into 2 divisions, which gets too repetitive for my liking anyways, and I'm sure many others would agree. Particularly the PD, how many teams out of them 10 will be from Dublin next year now? 5, and if Shels manage to take Corks place that becomes 6, not to mention Bray and Drogheda who are both just outside Dublin, not a very good geographical spread at all (not sure what the story is regarding what division they'll be in though).

Ideally, I think this country could do with a league structure from PD down to regional divisions in every county. If they could possibly make a 16 team PD, and then use the remaining 6 teams, combine them with Carlow, Tralee, Cobh, Castlebar and Tullamore and then possibly attract another 5 teams to form a first division. Then if they could have the A Championship below that, kind of as a transition league from regional football to national football, then below that you have your LSL etc. which would all link down to the lowest form of football in the country, where a team could work their way up from KDFL division 4 to playing Champions League football (in theory).

Obviously this idea would have many flaws and obstacles to overcome before it could ever be possible, but if thought about carefully and planned correctly I think it would be the best possible thing to do.

The Volt

CiaranC wrote: »

Hate playing teams 4+ times a season. Its just all wrong.

This. Some teams played each other 6 or 7 times last season with the cups etc. It gets ridiculous

HalloweenJack

Firstly, I hate the 10/12 team idea. It's way too small and it's unbelievably boring having to play the same teams over and over.

I'd be in favour of an 18 team league. That way, every side gets 17 home games (more or less what they get now) and there's more teams to play.

Although, I accept that an 18 team league would be full of filler teams and the same few would challenge at the top every year.

The Volt

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Firstly, I hate the 10/12 team idea. It's way too small and it's unbelievably boring having to play the same teams over and over.

I'd be in favour of an 18 team league. That way, every side gets 17 home games (more or less what they get now) and there's more teams to play.

Although, I accept that an 18 team league would be full of filler teams and the same few would challenge at the top every year.

Would bring us up to standard with the Premier League so

fh041205

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Although, I accept that an 18 team league would be full of filler teams and the same few would challenge at the top every year.

Then whats the point of it? This undermines the whole idea of an 18 team league. The 10 team is all about sustaining the action right to the end. Without that we lose probably the most attractive thing about the league atm.

Its different in the PL where you play for 6-7 european spots and 3 relegation places. With an 18 team league and only 3 euro places, and say 3 relegation ones, that leaves 12 teams with nothing at the end of the season, and most of them proabably well aware of it for the last 7 or 8 games. Sounds like a step in the wrong direction to me in terms of producing an entertaining product.

thusspakeblixa

16 team Premier Division with all the existing sides plus
-Shelbourne
-Derry
-Bray
-Waterford
-Wexford
-Limerick FC

Then a regional first division (like the regionalliga and oberliga and Germany).

First Division North
-Athlone Town
-Monaghan United
-Mervue United
-Salthill Devon
-Castlebar Celtic
-Tullamore Town
-Finn Harps
-Shamrock Rovers A (as winners of A Championship)
-Finn Harps (as next best placed 'A' side)
-Drogheda United (as above)


First Division South
-Cobh Ramblers
-Tralee Dynamos
-FC Carlow
-Kilkenny City
-Tipperary League (or team from Thurles/Cashel etc.)
-Team from Shannon/Ennis area
-Cork City A (as above)
-Bray Wanderers A ('')
-Bohemians A
-Another youth team, possibly from Cork OR another A team


Below these there would be a reserve league(s) - the A Championship. The reserve teams in the first division would play the top 6 reserve teams in the A Championship at the end of the season in a playoff competition (so top first division reserves play bottom of A Championship, and vice versa). The winners play in the next season's first division.

The bottom (non-reserve) team must play a relegation/promotion match with a junior team every season. The junior team would be selected from the best-performing teams in the FAI Cup.

Promotion to the Premier Division would be decided with the top four sides from North and South First Divisions playing against each other in playoffs. The two finalists replace the bottom two in the Premier Division.

An option for the Premier Division would be splitting it into top eight and bottom eight mid-season (as they do in Scandinavia and the Netherlands).

Also the regional leagues (LSL etc) should have some sort of apparatus to connect them with the LOI. Maybe a non-league cup every year to decide who plays in the First Division promotion/relegation playoff.

Gavin "shels"

16 teams.

The likes of Monaghan, Mervue, etc... probably wouldn't survive in Regional leagues as I'd say matches against when we bring 100 - 300 ourselves top up there accounts.

mrDerek

hey guys just a quick question im not overly familiar with the LOI setup but if ya finish last in division 1.do you get relegated and if so where to?

Gavin "shels"

mrDerek wrote: »

hey guys just a quick question im not overly familiar with the LOI setup but if ya finish last in division 1.do you get relegated and if so where to?

Relegated to the A Championship.

mrDerek

Gavin shels wrote: »

Relegated to the A Championship.

is the A championship table on the fai website?

EDIT nevermind found it haha

Gavin "shels"

Don't think any team has been relegated to it and only Mervue promoted.

SantryRed

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

16 team Premier Division with all the existing sides plus
-Shelbourne
-Derry
-Bray
-Waterford
-Wexford
-Limerick FC

Then a regional first division (like the regionalliga and oberliga and Germany).

First Division North
-Athlone Town
-Monaghan United
-Mervue United
-Salthill Devon
-Castlebar Celtic
-Tullamore Town
-Finn Harps
-Shamrock Rovers A (as winners of A Championship)
-Finn Harps (as next best placed 'A' side)
-Drogheda United (as above)


First Division South
-Cobh Ramblers
-Tralee Dynamos
-FC Carlow
-Kilkenny City
-Tipperary League (or team from Thurles/Cashel etc.)
-Team from Shannon/Ennis area
-Cork City A (as above)
-Bray Wanderers A ('')
-Bohemians A
-Another youth team, possibly from Cork OR another A team


Below these there would be a reserve league(s) - the A Championship. The reserve teams in the first division would play the top 6 reserve teams in the A Championship at the end of the season in a playoff competition (so top first division reserves play bottom of A Championship, and vice versa). The winners play in the next season's first division.

The bottom (non-reserve) team must play a relegation/promotion match with a junior team every season. The junior team would be selected from the best-performing teams in the FAI Cup.

Promotion to the Premier Division would be decided with the top four sides from North and South First Divisions playing against each other in playoffs. The two finalists replace the bottom two in the Premier Division.

An option for the Premier Division would be splitting it into top eight and bottom eight mid-season (as they do in Scandinavia and the Netherlands).

Also the regional leagues (LSL etc) should have some sort of apparatus to connect them with the LOI. Maybe a non-league cup every year to decide who plays in the First Division promotion/relegation playoff.

The problem with this is the reserve sides. There's no point in having reserve sides as clubs just play their under 20s anyways! They should put the U20 sides in instead of the reserve sides, maybe with the option of playing at most 3 overage players in a game.

_blank_

Also, what happens if, say, Waterford United and Wexford Youths finish in the bottom two places in the 16 Team PD?

Where are they relegated to?

Who comes up? A winner from each of the regional divisions?

SantryRed

The problem is without co-operation of the LSL and all of the other regional leagues things just won't work out. Using the teams we have now the way I'd set it up would be a 16 team Premier, consisting of the top 16 sides that season, no independant committee bull. Teams would play each other twice a week and the season would start mid March and end around mid October. The bottom two sides will be relegated to the revamped A League.

The A League will be broken into two regional divisions, consisting of ten or twelve teams in each league. Again, these sides will play each other twice. This league will be made up of the PD's U20 sides and the other six sides who have been relegated plus Tralee and another side?

Actually, thinking about this again, it could be broken up into three regional divisions of ten. The PD U20s sides, that's 16, the six sides from the FD, that makes 22, and then 8 sides from around the country who want to apply. This regional division could be used as a way into the league for sides who are entering for the first side, and also for sides who have been relegated from the PD.

whatawaster

I don't really like the idea of a 16/18/20 team division. I think there'd be too much mediocrity. I think the league has to aspire to making the PL as elite as they can. It's a method that has been shown to work in Rugby, first-class cricket and other sports.

Forget the notion that it's boring and repetitive -

10 team premier league, with teams being granted licenses each year based on financial prudence and transparency. As well as a commitment to move towards better coaching and youth development in the medium term and infrastructural development in the long-term.

- Also i'd immediately introduce more stringent salary caps, closing any loopholes.
- there should be a minimum number of home-grown, under-21 players in each team every week.

stovelid

Pure_Cork wrote: »

The greater geographic spread in the First Division is also a bonus.

This again. If some non-Dublin teams in the premier could hold on to their PD licenses, that might help things?

I'd definitely like a bigger PD, but it could affect the competitiveness if lots of poor clubs came up. Fact is, we probably don't have enough strong teams to make a decent-sized premier division.

thusspakeblixa

SantryRed wrote: »

The problem with this is the reserve sides. There's no point in having reserve sides as clubs just play their under 20s anyways! They should put the U20 sides in instead of the reserve sides, maybe with the option of playing at most 3 overage players in a game.

True. But that's why they're called 'A' teams.

If a team uses the A Championship correctly it can be a massive bonus. Just look at UCD last season- most of that team won the A Championship the year before.

Des wrote: »

Also, what happens if, say, Waterford United and Wexford Youths finish in the bottom two places in the 16 Team PD?

Where are they relegated to?

Who comes up? A winner from each of the regional divisions?

Hadn't thought of that.

It'd have to be a similar system to the German one. It's quite pragmatic. If there isn't enough teams to fill a regional division, a reserve side takes their place. Also if the main team gets relegated, the A side isn't allowed play in that division until the main team wins promotion.

thusspakeblixa

Also, just to add that I think it's a good idea for more teams from third-level institutions to have teams in the league set-up.

The likes of DCU, UCC and the NUIs in Galway and Maynooth should be asked to enter a restructured league. You have a ready-made fanbase there, with the right kind of promotion on campus.

edit: I think the idea of a 14-team PD (possibly with a mid-season split) may be more feasible than 16 teams.

GLaDOS

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

The likes of DCU, UCC and the NUIs in Galway and Maynooth should be asked to enter a restructured league. You have a ready-made fanbase there, with the right kind of promotion on campus.

In fairness, UCD aren't exactly known for their hoards of hardcore fans

thusspakeblixa

ScienceNerd wrote: »

In fairness, UCD aren't exactly known for their hoards of hardcore fans

And that's mainly because of a lack of decent promotion within the campus itself.

One of the best-run clubs in the league IMO.

SantryRed

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

True. But that's why they're called 'A' teams.

If a team uses the A Championship correctly it can be a massive bonus. Just look at UCD last season- most of that team won the A Championship the year before.

Exactly, I'm 90% sure that the sme side was playing in the u20s too bar a few exceptions

civis_liberalis

mrDerek wrote: »

hey guys just a quick question im not overly familiar with the LOI setup but if ya finish last in division 1.do you get relegated and if so where to?

Gavin shels wrote: »

Relegated to the A Championship.

The team that finishes bottom of the 1st Division enters a play-off with the best placed non-reserve team in the A Championship.

Since Kildare County folded after the last league game of the season, there was no one for Salthill Devon to play-off against, so they were automatically promoted from the A Championship.

thusspakeblixa

SantryRed wrote: »

Exactly, I'm 90% sure that the sme side was playing in the u20s too bar a few exceptions

You're probably right.
In that case it may be better to have an under 18/19 league instead of the under 20?

SantryRed

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

You're probably right.
In that case it may be better to have an under 18/19 league instead of the under 20?

Exactly what is being planned this year! However, teams are recruiting players now and the FAI still haven't announced anything :rolleyes:

fh041205

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

And that's mainly because of a lack of decent promotion within the campus itself.

One of the best-run clubs in the league IMO.

Who offer nothing to the league in terms of:

fanbase
gate receipts
match night experience
promotion of the league
attraction of investors


They might be "well-run" but they offer nothing to the league and IMO its pretty pointless even having them there from the FAI's (and my) point of view.

thusspakeblixa

fh041205 wrote: »

Who offer nothing to the league in terms of:

fanbase
gate receipts
match night experience
promotion of the league
attraction of investors


They might be "well-run" but they offer nothing to the league and IMO its pretty pointless even having them there from the FAI's (and my) point of view.

True, but what I'm saying is you have a potential audience of thousands of students in the bigger universities.
If UCD AFC were marketed more aggressively by the college and involved themselves more on-campus (with student media and social events) they'd have a better attendance than most LOI clubs; on a par at least with Pats, Shels and Bohs.
I'm in DCU- there's a better attendance at DCU GAA matches than UCD Soccer. Why? Because they involve themselves a lot more than UCD do.

fh041205

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

True, but what I'm saying is you have a potential audience of thousands of students in the bigger universities.
If UCD AFC were marketed more aggressively by the college and involved themselves more on-campus (with student media and social events) they'd have a better attendance than most LOI clubs; on a par at least with Pats, Shels and Bohs.
I'm in DCU- there's a better attendance at DCU GAA matches than UCD Soccer. Why? Because they involve themselves a lot more than UCD do.

I agree with all that. The thing is though, that UCD continue to show contempt for the LOI by not bothering to do this. Its my main gripe against them. Its unfair that they can sit back and congratulate themsleves on what a stable, well-managed club they are while other clubs are breaking their balls trying to get noticed, improve the mathday experience and get fans in the gate.

It would be nice to take some college teams in if you could ensure they wouldn't go the same route as UCD.