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First PC build complete. but a few questions!
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07-02-2010 1:44pm#1Hello all,
I have just completed my first build and i have a few questions to ask those of you who know more than me, Firstly all the parts i picked up over on adverts and what was just a little project has become so much more.
so parts:
MSI p35 platinum MB
Dual core processor
2 gig ram
250 gb sata hdd
Hd 4670 gigabyte graphics card
2 lg DVD super multi drives
x power 450W ps
Nice shiny transparent case (which is not very practical for getting access to parts inside)
running windows 7
So what i would like to enquire about is power! and will i have to upgrade if i add another hdd and if i do need to upgrade what should i put in with the option of adding other hardware in the future. i may add a card reader or other gadgets at some point. I was also going to add as much ram as possible (8 gig i think).
another question i have to ask is can i take a hdd that is being used for storage in another pc and simply connect it to new pc and still access all the files? or do i need Raid? not sure what raid is but i know my old computer has it.
Thanks for reading.
More questions will follow
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Specific graphics cards are more suited to specific resolutions in 3D; in 2D even an integrated GPU is happy with running Windows at 1080p, although smoothly running HD movies at 1080p is another matter. With 2D what matters are the features of the card; the HD4670 is pretty comprehensive with HD encoding/decoding so its a pretty solid card for 2D. For 3D its okay for basic CAD, older games etc. but for hardcore CAD or games at 1080p it won't be good with framerate; again not as big an issue for CAD as it is for games.
I was interested in the CPU because I wanted to guess at the TDP; given you only have a HD4670 it'd be the CPU that would be the biggest user of 12V power in there. At 2.1GHz even an old 65nm C2D shouldn't be too heavy on the juice so the X-Power should be okay for five minutes. I just wouldn't push it too hard with 15A of 12V power being the absolute-best-case-scenario Certainly be very careful about upgrading the CPU when you get that far! If you're not going to need to upgrade the graphics then no problem there at least. If you want to OC, let alone move to a naturally thirstier CPU, upgrade the PSU first. Only the CX400 is suitable on Komplett (they have a limited range of low-end PSUs), although there may be cheaper suitable PSUs on other sites. 0 -
solitare is this the psu you had in mind
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=404885
That's the one and it just went up in price!
the cx400's were one of the things komplett was actually competitive on.
Nice to see as the vat rate drops their prices go up, although I guess they prob just can't afford it!
http://www.onestoppcshop.ie/products.asp?recnumber=32592151
This would be better with very cheap next day delivery. Or am I gonna get corrected and someone is gonna tell me it's an older version of one of their good psu's. I don't know
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Not that much cheaper
And its the new refresh of the old Earthwatts (you can tell by the black chassis). No idea who the OEM is, although its a safe bet that its either Delta, Seasonic, or FSP. No idea what the maximum combined 12V rating is either unfortunately. Naughty Antec!0 -
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DISCLAIMER: I do not mean any offense with any of the following but am falling asleep on the keyboard as I type so bear with me...All due respect and Soltaire.. My two cents.
To give a bit of a background here, to illutrate I'm not a n00b in an effort to add credibility to my post, I have built or advised on dozens of builds over many years. I had the misfortune of working in PC repair for a few years and have provided IT support to small businesses and home users for over 4 years, and I cannot remember any complaints with my work because I always pride myself on being entirely honest and upfront with clients and with their needs. I am also in the engineering field (degree) so I'm a techy kind of person.
/boring stuff
Oh dear... while I would never consider you nor anyone else a "n00b" off the bat like that the above does come off just a mite confrontational. Nothing wrong with what you've written... but I have a bad feeling that the above implies that after I contradict you you're going to try and rip me to shredsThe issue I have here, and I see it everywhere in all aspects of computer geekery is overspeccing.
Its not about that. Really. I'm infamous for my anti-overspec approach, as are many here. This isn't an enthusiast website...If you are going to use your PC with your current configuration and in the manner you have talked about, there is no need to upgrade your PSU unless you are upgrading your machine.
We're not really dealing with an upgrade situation here, although if it does come to that it should only reinforce the urgency of the situation. This is more of a "RUN FOR YOUR LIFE! ITS GONNA BLOW!" situation. Okay, a little melodramatic, but I hope you understand where we're coming from. This isn't even an old bargain-basement unit here. Its worse than that. Its been reduced from a list price of ~€15 to about a tenner. In a world where even a cack entry-level unit is going to hit you for €25. Do the math.Your PSU is not about to blow up and will not damage your machine- it has the following:• Over Current Protection
• Over Power Protection
• Short Circuit Protection
To prevent it from exploding or damaging your components.
It does?! Maybe. But that's an awful lot of "Over-MacGuffin Protection"'s missing there. OTP? OVP? UVP? And must we ask the dreaded question: are the ones it does claim to have even there? You can't tell anyway but the hard way... or if you have the know-how to spot the relevant circuitry once you pop it open.
And are any of them even worth anything? If there is a faulty transformer or dodgy-brand caps that are either bulging or prone to violent self-immolation at ~50C they won't save you. Your system stands a chance of getting surged and the components fried. But as a dodgy older type that's designed for late Pentium 3s and first-gen Pentium 4s the biggest threat by far is the great latitude for a modern 12V-heavy system that draws so little 3.3/5V power to crossload the minor rails (they weren't so minor back then!) and send the voltage on the anemic 12V rail either skyrocketing or plummeting or simply ODing the components with insane ripple voltages. No OVP/UVP to counter any of that either!I am quite confident that 450W at ~70% efficiency is more than enough to power your current system.
Butbutbut!!! That's not the issue! The fact that the PSU maxes out at a theoretical 180W at best on its primary rail is the issue! The fact that its not designed to be effectively crossloaded to death with a 12V-heavy rig (which all modern PCs are) and that it could well be telling porkies about even the godawful 12V capacity it claims to have! The fact that its so insanely cheap it must be using terrifyingly bad internal components and heatsinks made from tissue-paper! Those are the issues, not the dreaded "LOL your rig NEEDS MORE GUITARS WATTS!!!" attitude that you seem to be implying is going on. It can happen on other sites, but that behavior isn't very common in this neck of the woods.The 333w from your calculator is the minimum recommended PSU rating.. not what your sysmte should draw at max load. That takes PSU efficiency into account. So you could probably get by on 350W, though like any component, it will last longer if it is not running at full load all the time. In fact, power your PC up and use it some demanding applications for a few hours and then you will know if your PSU can handle it. Worst case scenario it will become unstable and BSOD or turn off.
I do the decent thing and ignore those PSU calculators. They're really not up to much. My rig should be drawing 305W accoring to them... P-Tuner disagrees. Strongly. By a hefty 155W. At peak load. Ever.To sum it up, all I'm really saying is, don't throw money away, espcially on a budget build (it defeats the purpose if you do so). If you do upgrade your PC, buy a new one.
Fair enough. But the thing is that the OP already has €200+ of components and is relying on them. €30-40 now is more economical and less hassle than another €200+ (plus downtime plus potential loss of data) in five minutes' time. I don't believe in cooking away money or mission-critical data in cheapo-PSU-related firestorms, is all.0 -
DISCLAIMER: I do not mean any offense with any of the following but am falling asleep on the keyboard as I type so bear with me...
Oh dear... while I would never consider you nor anyone else a "n00b" off the bat like that the above does come off just a mite confrontational. Nothing wrong with what you've written... but I have a bad feeling that the above implies that after I contradict you you're going to try and rip me to shreds
Not meant that way trust me
.Its not about that. Really. I'm infamous for my anti-overspec approach, as are many here. This isn't an enthusiast website...
Good to know, from tramping around the darker corners of the internet there are many, many people who buy 1kW PSUs for rigs that could get buy on half that. (I believe somebody has a picture of such a setup in the Rig Pictures thread section
I must put mine up there someday soon)We're not really dealing with an upgrade situation here, although if it does come to that it should only reinforce the urgency of the situation. This is more of a "RUN FOR YOUR LIFE! ITS GONNA BLOW!" situation. Okay, a little melodramatic, but I hope you understand where we're coming from. This isn't even an old bargain-basement unit here. Its worse than that. Its been reduced from a list price of ~€15 to about a tenner. In a world where even a cack entry-level unit is going to hit you for €25. Do the math.
Oh for sure! It is an awful PSU, but if you take apart a PSU from an eSystems or other entry level brand, it is equally awful and they don't blow up (mostly).It does?! Maybe. But that's an awful lot of "Over-MacGuffin Protection"'s missing there. OTP? OVP? UVP? And must we ask the dreaded question: are the ones it does claim to have even there? You can't tell anyway but the hard way... or if you have the know-how to spot the relevant circuitry once you pop it open.
Tis true, tis true. OVP saved my ass when I was mucking about with a PSU a while back.Butbutbut!!! That's not the issue! The fact that the PSU maxes out at a theoretical 180W at best on its primary rail is the issue! The fact that its not designed to be effectively crossloaded to death with a 12V-heavy rig (which all modern PCs are) and that it could well be telling porkies about even the godawful 12V capacity it claims to have! The fact that its so insanely cheap it must be using terrifyingly bad internal components and heatsinks made from tissue-paper! Those are the issues, not the dreaded "LOL your rig NEEDS MORE GUITARS WATTS!!!" attitude that you seem to be implying is going on. It can happen on other sites, but that behavior isn't very common in this neck of the woods.
Indeed, so you're looking at GPU and CPU consumption. The 4670 does not even need a PCI-E power connector and the OP has not put up details of his CPU (unless I missed them).
Anandtech measured a 4670,Q9450 and G45 at 67W idle and 139W full load. Even if all of that was on the 12V rail it should be OK- and the Q9450 will consume more power than a 2.1Ghz C2D.
Guru3d Core 2 Duo 3.0 GHz / 1333 FSB Processor, the X38 mainboard, a passive water-cooling solution on the CPU, 2GB memory @ 207W full load. Those figures are across all rails and that 207W includes WC- so I'd be quite confident 12V load is significantly less.I do the decent thing and ignore those PSU calculators. They're really not up to much. My rig should be drawing 305W accoring to them... P-Tuner disagrees. Strongly. By a hefty 155W. At peak load. Ever.
I measure real world power consumption myself, but when you have no other means to do they are a good guide. That calculator is a little off for me too, the most mine has drawn is ~330W.Fair enough. But the thing is that the OP already has €200+ of components and is relying on them. €30-40 now is more economical and less hassle than another €200+ (plus downtime plus potential loss of data) in five minutes' time. I don't believe in cooking away money or mission-critical data in cheapo-PSU-related firestorms, is all.
Aye, and that represents ~20% of his budget. Anyhoo OP, I'd say at this stage change it, because unless you do it will always be at the back of your mind. You're probably going to build another PC at some stage so view it as an investment and take it to your next PC. Nothing anybody has said so far has been wrong or incorrect and Solitaire has offered some solid advice and I was playing Devil's advocate to try paint a broader picture of the situation. The important thing to take from all of this is that when you post on an internet forum looking for advice, you can end up more confused and worried that when you started, happens to me whenever I do 
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Cheers Lads,
There is absolutely no confusion, I will be replacing psu the way i look at it and as c.d. mentioned i would rather have piece of mind running the system and it may also be used in a future setup. I am even thinking of buying one new:eek: again for piece of mind last thing i want is one thats been on 24/7.
sad thing about this is that i did electronic circuits last semester in college, mind you think i failed it
Thanks again lads been a great help0
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