I wish I had my faith back

Dean820

I was asked to make a thread here after I made this comment in the Christianity forum 'I wish had my faith back and losing it was of the worst experiences in your life.' And I really do believe that. Its not about being right or wrong to me, although it would be nice to know what I believe in is right. Before everything was nice and simple, everything was in black and white. And in a way I guess that was comforting? I dunno. Now I believe when I die its just darkness, there's nothing there. And thats a depression thought. I used prey a lot when I was young and it used help calm me, I used get a nice feeling after doing it. But now even if I try I know I'm only fooling myself, I don't believe I'm actually talking to another thing or person anymore, its just me talking to myself. Again, thats a depressing thought. I just feel like I'm by myself now and that the entire universe and human race was one big accident that just happened to occur.

I'm sure there's other things but I can't think of them now. But is there anyone else here who's annoyed they don't have faith anymore?



Anyone?




Okay.

Galvasean

People need to get this notion of there being 'nothing but darkness' when you die if you don't believe. There won't be darkness. You're not going to be some disembodied brainwave screaming in the dark. It's nothing. You're not there. You're not anywhere.
I actually find the idea of not existing at all anymore once you die kind of relaxing (in a weird sort of way). Nothing to worry about. No more pain etc. Total peace.
I'd much rather that than lying on my deathbed thinking about how I have to go through some interview process now in a few minutes to see if they'll let me in to heaven.

Xluna

I can relate to this a bit. I won't deny that it can be comforting if you're grieving or depressed but of course just because it's comforting does'nt make it true. So much for there's no atheist in foxholes.

Dean820

Galvasean wrote: »

People need to get this notion of there being 'nothing but darkness' when you die if you don't believe. There won't be darkness. You're not going to be some disembodied brainwave screaming in the dark. It's nothing. You're not there. You're not anywhere.

Isn't that still...depressing?:o

Galvasean

Dean820 wrote: »

Isn't that still...depressing?:o

Replied before my edit. Oh well, I'll post it again:

I actually find the idea of not existing at all anymore once you die kind of relaxing (in a weird sort of way). Nothing to worry about. No more pain etc. Total peace.
I'd much rather that than lying on my deathbed thinking about how I have to go through some interview process now in a few minutes to see if they'll let me in to heaven.

Gordon

Why are you so worried about what happens after your life? Make the most of your life, that's what's important. It's almost like people thinking this way will make do with feeling miserable and unhappy, just so they can get to the afterlife part, with virgins, and white light and happiness and cream cakes. I'd rather not make do investing in unhappiness for the afterlife payout, but be happy now, today, alive.

Dean820

But just say you do get into heaven (lets pretend it exists) and its this great amazing place and you feel no pain or hurt, surely that would be better than not existing at all.

Edit: Good point Gordan but I think its important for us all to think about this stuff once in awhile rather than discard it.

hiorta

My experiences have led me to see that we cannot not exist - ever.
No matter what you opt to believe or do, or how many beliefs you've had, you must reap as was sown, but you will always be you.
The body is not 'us' merely the outer covering which will be discarded eventually - you will still be there.

Dean820

hiorta wrote: »

My experiences have led me to see that we cannot not exist - ever.
No matter what you opt to believe or do, or how many beliefs you've had, you must reap as was sown, but you will always be you.
The body is not 'us' merely the outer covering which will be discarded eventually - you will still be there.

Thats a scary thought.

Wacker

hiorta wrote: »

My experiences have led me to see that we cannot not exist - ever.
No matter what you opt to believe or do, or how many beliefs you've had, you must reap as was sown, but you will always be you.
The body is not 'us' merely the outer covering which will be discarded eventually - you will still be there.

I disagree with this. I have a hard time believing that any sort of consciousness would be possible without a functioning brain. I could be wrong about this, but I doubt it. The 'ghost and the machine' notion just doesn't cut it, as far as I'm concerned.

robby^5

Dean820 wrote: »

But just say you do get into heaven (lets pretend it exists) and its this great amazing place and you feel no pain or hurt, surely that would be better than not existing at all.

I don't know if others feel this way, but the idea of heaven to me cheapens the value of life. We only get one life and for people to actually believe they are going to live forever is very deluded. I don't think believers appreciate how amazingly lucky they are to get the very limited amount time they get to spend on this planet, well maybe they do but I just feel like understanding you only have one shot and then it's over...it's easier to make the most of what you have, no regrets, no silly rules forbidding you from enjoying your life to the fullest.

Galvasean

Dean820 wrote: »

But just say you do get into heaven (lets pretend it exists) and its this great amazing place and you feel no pain or hurt, surely that would be better than not existing at all.

Of course it would be. But just because something sounds nice does not make it true. I want to believe that Arsenal will beat Chelsea 8-0 today. Doesn't make the likelyhood of it happening any more realistic.

hiorta wrote: »

My experiences have led me to see that we cannot not exist - ever.
No matter what you opt to believe or do, or how many beliefs you've had, you must reap as was sown, but you will always be you.
The body is not 'us' merely the outer covering which will be discarded eventually - you will still be there.

I disagree entirely. As far as I'm concerned 'you' are your brain essentially. Lob off a part of your brain and you cease being you. When the brain dies entirely that's the end of you. I don't believe that people have spirits/souls/higher functions that exist beyond the remit of the physical brain.

ChocolateSauce

Dean820 wrote: »

I was asked to make a thread here after I made this comment in the Christianity forum 'I wish had my faith back and losing it was of the worst experiences in your life.' And I really do believe that. Its not about being right or wrong to me, although it would be nice to know what I believe in is right. Before everything was nice and simple, everything was in black and white. And in a way I guess that was comforting? I dunno. Now I believe when I die its just darkness, there's nothing there. And thats a depression thought. I used prey a lot when I was young and it used help calm me, I used get a nice feeling after doing it. But now even if I try I know I'm only fooling myself, I don't believe I'm actually talking to another thing or person anymore, its just me talking to myself. Again, thats a depressing thought. I just feel like I'm by myself now and that the entire universe and human race was one big accident that just happened to occur.

I'm sure there's other things but I can't think of them now. But is there anyone else here who's annoyed they don't have faith anymore?



Anyone?




Okay.

I think you should read this essay; it might help. It specifically addresses the subject you've brought up.

I see the world as a place of awe and wonder and hope, so being atheist doesn't commit one to a bleak outlook.

sink

For you to exist at all was an incredible stroke of luck. Think of all the combinations and permutations of genes that are possible, you are one in a 10^100*. The vast majority of human and of all possible life will never get to exist. Think of all the events that had to happen in a very precise way over the last 13.7 billion years for you to have existed at all. Now think about how lucky you are to exist in this moment in time, a time of unparralled human comfort, a golden age of humanity, where you have the opportunity to live life to the fullest and really enjoy it, rather than just struggling to survive.

What i'm trying to get at is you should not be focusing on the downside of not existing after you die, because that is the default position. You have lucked out to exist at and to exist right now. Think of it as an amazing gift and enjoy it.


* Number entirely rehtorical and not to be taken as accurate

doctoremma

Richard Dawkins has an analogy he uses to describe the brevity but brightness of each person's life. It involves imagining a laser beam moving across a ruler. You occupy a short space on the ruler but when the laser beam catches you, you are the focus, the illuminated part, and that is very precious. Like sink says ^^, there are so many other rulers it could have been travelling along, so many other people that could have occupied your space.

I have a similar analogy in my head (which predates my reading of Dawkins) where I imagine lives mapped onto a darkened earth globe. Every life is a firework, shooting from the surface of the globe and lighting the sky. Some fireworks are bigger and shoot out further than others (I usually ascribe these to Darwin and Einstein ). Some are smaller and more modest. But every single firework is visible, every single firework intertwines with those of its neighbours, sometimes making more beautiful lights and colours than each individually.

When thinking about death (which I try not to do, there's no point) I think of my firework.

liamw

Dean820 wrote: »

Before everything was nice and simple, everything was in black and white. And in a way I guess that was comforting? I dunno. Now I believe when I die its just darkness, there's nothing there. And thats a depression thought.

I disagree, I don't think clinging onto a belief system from bronze age mythology is 'nice and simple' at all. In the face of modern science, being an intellectually honest Christian would seem to be really difficult.. reinterpreting the bible, calling certain parts literal and certain parts symbolic/metaphoric... shifting from literal->symbolic meanings when science disproves more and more myths.

As for death, I have no fear of death. Surely being religious you have to worry about the possiblity of going to Hell, the possibility that you are worshipping the wrong God? Death isn't darkness... it's the same as it was before you were born.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

the_syco

Not so long ago, the way to get into heaven was to pay some priests money. This, to me, show how false it is. The "faith" you speak of: it kept people in power for a very long time, with a fear you'd goto hell if you went against them.

IMO, there's something there, be it reincarnation, heavin, valhalla, whatever. Hell was created as a place to go if you were a bad person, and didn't pay the priests their money.

chozometroid

doctoremma wrote: »

Richard Dawkins has an analogy he uses to describe the brevity but brightness of each person's life. It involves imagining a laser beam moving across a ruler. You occupy a short space on the ruler but when the laser beam catches you, you are the focus, the illuminated part, and that is very precious. Like sink says ^^, there are so many other rulers it could have been travelling along, so many other people that could have occupied your space.

I love analogies, but this one doesn't strike me in any way. Does he have any better ones? I want to understand this position. Why a ruler? Does this represent time, or just a segment of possible lifeforms? (*checks "God Delusion" and finds*: it represents time)

Funny, but this is how I viewed the experience of time before. All persons/places/things/atoms and events are on a scroll of sorts and they pass through a point of focus which is the "present" moment of universal experience.

Still, though, Dawkins analogy does not do anything for me. Let's hear another.

Daftendirekt

chozometroid wrote: »

I love analogies, but this one doesn't strike me in any way. Does he have any better ones? I want to understand this position. Why a ruler? Does this represent time, or just a segment of possible lifeforms? (*checks "God Delusion" and finds*: it represents time)

Funny, but this is how I viewed the experience of time before. All persons/places/things/atoms and events are on a scroll of sorts and they pass through a point of focus which is the "present" moment of universal experience.

Still, though, Dawkins analogy does not do anything for me. Let's hear another.

Didn't doctoremma just give another analogy?

I have a similar analogy in my head (which predates my reading of Dawkins) where I imagine lives mapped onto a darkened earth globe. Every life is a firework, shooting from the surface of the globe and lighting the sky. Some fireworks are bigger and shoot out further than others (I usually ascribe these to Darwin and Einstein ). Some are smaller and more modest. But every single firework is visible, every single firework intertwines with those of its neighbours, sometimes making more beautiful lights and colours than each individually.

When thinking about death (which I try not to do, there's no point) I think of my firework.

iUseVi

I like what the Anglo-saxons said to Bede when they were converting to Christianity (ironic I know) :

(copy and pasted)

Another of the king's chief men signified his agreement with this prudent argument, and went on to say: "Your majesty, when we compare the present life of man with that time of which we have no knowledge, it seems to me like the swift flight of a lone sparrow through the banqueting-hall where you sit in the winter months to dine with your thanes and counsellors. Inside there is a comforting fire to warm the room; outside, the wintry storms of snow and rain are raging. This sparrow flies swiftly in through one door of the hall, and out through another. While he is inside, he is safe from the winter storms; but after a few moments of comfort, he vanishes from sight into the darkness whence he came. Similarly, man appears on earth for a little while, but we know nothing of what went before this life, and what follows. Therefore if this new teaching can reveal any more certain knowledge, it seems only right that we should follow it."

Obviously the last sentence I have some issues with, but I like the analogy.

EDIT: I didn't read the thread properly, it appears this isn't really relevant, but oh well I don't delete posts.

Pete M.

If we could leave the realm of analogies for a moment and consider that when we do shuffle off, we'll return as part of something else, unconscious of what we are, as in a potato or tree or methane or whatever, and if you look at even the relatively simple chemistry of methane, the isn't that fantastic enough to look forward to?

If you've lost your faith, and there ain't no getting it back, then be happy that you've realised enough to have moved on past it and closer to 'the truth'.

Live in the now and be happy.
Not as easy and unfulfilling as it seems....

doctoremma

chozometroid wrote: »

I love analogies, but this one doesn't strike me in any way. Does he have any better ones? I want to understand this position. Why a ruler? Does this represent time, or just a segment of possible lifeforms? (*checks "God Delusion" and finds*: it represents time)

Funny, but this is how I viewed the experience of time before. All persons/places/things/atoms and events are on a scroll of sorts and they pass through a point of focus which is the "present" moment of universal experience.

Still, though, Dawkins analogy does not do anything for me. Let's hear another.

Hang on. You say the analogy doesn't strike you. Then you say it's quite similar to one you use to view the passage of time. Then you reiterate that you don't like it

Anyway, you miss the point. The laser/ruler analogy is how Dawkins imagines it. It's his personal imagery. I understand it but don't find it particularly striking - I prefer my fireworks.

You are under no obligation to like either Dawkins laser/ruler or my fireworks/earth stuff. Nor am I obliged to try to invent other scenarios that you may prefer Do you have any personal imagery you would like to share or was this simply an opportunity to slag Dawkins?

strobe

Dean820 wrote: »

I was asked to make a thread here after I made this comment in the Christianity forum 'I wish had my faith back and losing it was of the worst experiences in your life.' And I really do believe that. Its not about being right or wrong to me, although it would be nice to know what I believe in is right. Before everything was nice and simple, everything was in black and white. And in a way I guess that was comforting? I dunno. Now I believe when I die its just darkness, there's nothing there. And thats a depression thought. I used prey a lot when I was young and it used help calm me, I used get a nice feeling after doing it. But now even if I try I know I'm only fooling myself, I don't believe I'm actually talking to another thing or person anymore, its just me talking to myself. Again, thats a depressing thought. I just feel like I'm by myself now and that the entire universe and human race was one big accident that just happened to occur.

I'm sure there's other things but I can't think of them now. But is there anyone else here who's annoyed they don't have faith anymore?



Anyone?




Okay.

I know what you mean Dean (that rhymes and you know it rhymes, admit it!) in the past I've felt the same on some occasions. I'm not quite sure at what stage I stopped believing in god, I just know that it was some time between my communion and confirmation. When I was very young and I was scared or worried about something, I'd pray at night and ask god to help out and I would sleep better and usually wake up the next morning feeling hopeful that god was busy during the night trying to sort crap out for me. Sometimes things would work out ok sometimes they wouldn't.

But now even though I sometimes think it would be great to have that comfort back, to truely believe that when I died I would get to spend eternity in bliss having a great oul laugh with my friends and family that have died, to believe that I had this all powerful friend out there somewhere that always had my back....it's not real. It's a crutch that I believe in the immediate, in times of stress can provide a source of comfort, it ultimately acts as a hinderence to the enjoyment of life, to what's real and what really matters. If I could somehow go back to believing the illusion I wouldn't, because it's not real, it's not what matters, it would be the equivalent of taking some drug that put me into a coma and let me dream wonderful dreams for the rest of my life. A blissful ignorance that would seem to me at the time to make me happier but after it all, after years and years when the drug wore off and I woke up to the real world, I can't imagine myself feeling anything other than a deep regret that I chose the easy option for temperary contentment at the expense of the chance to make the best of the real world, to embrace the genuine 'miracle' of life itself.

Daftendirekt

OP, it's more than likely that the way you're feeling now is only temporary. It's just part of your growth as a person - a transitional phase. You've thrown the comfy faith blanket away, and now things don't seem as rosy as they used to.

I've gone through a similar thing, and still have my down-days on occasion. I'm sure others do as well.

The way to get through it is simply to really accept life and your place in the universe for what they are. And not just accept it, but embrace it. In the grand scheme of things, none of us really matter a jot, but that doesn't mean it's any less incredible that out of all the possible people who could have been, you had the chance to be.

Once you've managed to get into that kind of mindset, dealing with death becomes a lot easier. It's an incredibly liberating (and humbling) experience, but once you've had it, you'll never miss your faith again. Hopefully.

Dean820

Some good replies there, lads. I was just thinking about the benefits of not being religious anymore. As a young teenager one thing that absolutely terrified me was that people who I knew who had died could see me and were watching from heaven. I would feel so guilty doing normal things that normal teenagers do like masturbating for example, lol. Looking back on it, it was so silly but it was a huge deal to me back then. I used a apologise to them in my head, lmao! I dunno if I'm alone on that one...yeah...probably am. :P

Flamed Diving

Dean, why is eternal life so appealing? Think about it. You never die. It never ends. Ever. Eventually you will surely reach the point where you want out. But you can't get out. It's life eternal. I can't imagine a worse fate. Know and realise that your existence is finite and precious. Let that knowledge spur you on to make the best of it.

bnt

To me it's not about replacing one set of unjustified beliefs with another set of unjustified beliefs: it's about learning to deal with the world as it is, not as we might wish it was. We have tools and methods for examining the things people tell us, we just have to use them. My advice is: don't fall for the complex, relativistic, sociological, post-modern stories you hear about Religion: some things are real, and some things aren't, and we can tell the difference, with a little practice.

Zillah

Dean820 wrote: »

I was asked to make a thread here after I made this comment in the Christianity forum 'I wish had my faith back and losing it was of the worst experiences in your life.' And I really do believe that. Its not about being right or wrong to me, although it would be nice to know what I believe in is right. Before everything was nice and simple, everything was in black and white. And in a way I guess that was comforting? I dunno. Now I believe when I die its just darkness, there's nothing there. And thats a depression thought. I used prey a lot when I was young and it used help calm me, I used get a nice feeling after doing it. But now even if I try I know I'm only fooling myself, I don't believe I'm actually talking to another thing or person anymore, its just me talking to myself. Again, thats a depressing thought. I just feel like I'm by myself now and that the entire universe and human race was one big accident that just happened to occur.

I'm sure there's other things but I can't think of them now. But is there anyone else here who's annoyed they don't have faith anymore?

This is not a philosophical matter. Sounds pretty damn likely that you're clinically depressed. If you were still a Christian then you'd be a depressed Christian.

Go see a doctor and explain how you've been feeling.

SonOfPerdition

Dean820 wrote: »

Now I believe when I die its just darkness, there's nothing there. And thats a depression thought.

hey Dean,

I too was very religious before i became a doubter, to non believer, to a strong atheist.

each stage required me to accept the loss of certain "comforts" one of which was the whole loss of the "life after death", which became the "darkness" that awaits. So, i have some sympathy for what you are going through.

When i went through the same process you are going through now it was initially difficult and unsettling for me, and i sometimes wondered if i was better off when i did believe, or to coin a phrase from Dawkins . . when i was deluded.

How i came to terms with it was to think about the time before my conception. I eventually realized that from my point of view, the time after my death is identical to the time before i was conceived, i simply don't exist. There is NO darkness.

Do you remember a darkness before you were born, and does that time depress you? if not, why not? Now, apply the same logic to the time after your death. Eventually you will accept it an learn to make the most of the time that does matter, when you are alive.

losing something even when you realise it was false, can be hard.
but it gets easier .

SOP

rccaulfield

Some of the things i've heard thats comforting are as follows;
*Think about it-your mother and father and their parents and so and so on and in fact every single one of your ancestors lived to be old and strong enough to procreate- and here you are!

*If heaven is eternal them you would cease to be you there. Your memory as of now could not hold in all the information. You would cease to be and would be a completely different person with a different mind.

*Being dead is the same as before you were born you wont exist- theres nothing to fear or be worried about. Enjoy being alive for the short time you are!

chozometroid

doctoremma wrote: »

Hang on. You say the analogy doesn't strike you. Then you say it's quite similar to one you use to view the passage of time. Then you reiterate that you don't like it

Anyway, you miss the point. The laser/ruler analogy is how Dawkins imagines it. It's his personal imagery. I understand it but don't find it particularly striking - I prefer my fireworks.

You are under no obligation to like either Dawkins laser/ruler or my fireworks/earth stuff. Nor am I obliged to try to invent other scenarios that you may prefer Do you have any personal imagery you would like to share or was this simply an opportunity to slag Dawkins?

I said it was similar to an idea I had, but that does not mean it had the effect Dawkins wanted to give. My idea was not to try to give any value to life, but merely to think of a model of how it works.

Your fireworks analogy I had not yet read at the time, so forgive me. I don't find that it represents the same thing, however. Dawkin's seemed to represent the flow of time and the narrow window through which life shines upon us. It doesn't deal much with what we do with our life or how our interactions with others are somehow meaningful.

No, you are not obligated to do anything at all for me. Sorry I asked anything of you.

I'm not slagging Dawkins, either. I just didn't find this analogy he used to be as great as he probably thought it was. I'm sure it was profound to many others, however, and congrats to him for that.

Zombrex

chozometroid wrote: »

I said it was similar to an idea I had, but that does not mean it had the effect Dawkins wanted to give. My idea was not to try to give any value to life, but merely to think of a model of how it works.

Your fireworks analogy I had not yet read at the time, so forgive me. I don't find that it represents the same thing, however. Dawkin's seemed to represent the flow of time and the narrow window through which life shines upon us. It doesn't deal much with what we do with our life or how our interactions with others are somehow meaningful.

No, you are not obligated to do anything at all for me. Sorry I asked anything of you.

I'm not slagging Dawkins, either. I just didn't find this analogy he used to be as great as he probably thought it was. I'm sure it was profound to many others, however, and congrats to him for that.

I think the point of the analogy is to counter the very religious idea that our lives don't matter unless they last for eternity in heaven or some such.

The idea is that something very short can still be very bright and beautiful. And in fact it's shortness should make us cherish it even more.

pclancy

I don't remember a thing about the 1.7 Billion years that went past before I was born so the thought of the rest of eternity after I die is equally unscary.

Goduznt Xzst

OP... what you are going through is natural. Just remember it's always darkest before the dawn.

Like with a lot of human proverbs, it takes a feeling of despair and disillusionment before you reorganize and accept, like a phoenix rising from the ashes.

There will come a point when you will hit a rough patch, and you won't feel the longing to pray, and you will come out of it knowing that you alone will have solved it without the crutch of your God.

At that point you will wonder why you ever needed that belief in a God at all.

Part of the reason why Atheists do tend to talk about their lack of belief a lot is that when you finally break away from it and see it from a fresh perspective, you begin to see how many other people are also enslaved to this numbing mindset of praying for help when they alone have all the tools to help themselves.

chozometroid

Wicknight wrote: »

I think the point of the analogy is to counter the very religious idea that our lives don't matter unless they last for eternity in heaven or some such.

The idea is that something very short can still be very bright and beautiful. And in fact it's shortness should make us cherish it even more.

Oh, if it's to counter that semi-strawman religous idea, I get the significance, although I still don't see how it's beautiful since no one is able to recognize the beauty. There is no outside observer or a guaranteed memory passed down of all things meaningful about the billions of unique and sometimes awe-inspiring individual stories we have on Earth.

pH

pclancy wrote: »

I don't remember a thing about the 1.7 Billion years that went past before I was born so the thought of the rest of eternity after I die is equally unscary.

13.7 actually.

Anyway OP, can you address the question of hell. In your post you make it out that faith gives you heaven for eternity, which is not strictly true, unless you were practicing a faith you'd invented yourself.

Most Christian faiths teach about hell, and most point out that getting into heaven isn't easy, which implies a large proportion of us don't make it.

So given the choice between eternal torment or non-existence, which seems preferable to you?

Zombrex

chozometroid wrote: »

There is no outside observer or a guaranteed memory passed down of all things meaningful about the billions of unique and sometimes awe-inspiring individual stories we have on Earth.

That is in fact the point, that is what makes it so painfully beautiful. The observers are us, the beings that exist for such a brief flash.

Have you ever heard the phrase sometimes it is good to just stop and take a look around because life passes so quickly?

It is gone just like that, like a snow flake melting in the palm of your hand.

You either look and appreciate the beauty of the present or it is gone just like that and never comes back.

Therefore to not appreciate life, to not appreciate ever second, to focus on the future and what will happen (as so many religious people do) is to waste the true beauty of existence which is the present.

That is the theory anyway :pac:

Tim Robbins

Dean820 wrote: »

I was asked to make a thread here after I made this comment in the Christianity forum 'I wish had my faith back and losing it was of the worst experiences in your life.' And I really do believe that. Its not about being right or wrong to me, although it would be nice to know what I believe in is right.
Okay.

If you have faith and you're wrong, it means a good deal of your life was based on delusions. I think it's better to see the world and your life for what it really is and know that the only way you can change it for the better is by taking responsibility for it yourself, instead of relying on a far fetched unscientific, illogical cosmic force.

Wacker

pclancy wrote: »

I don't remember a thing about the 1.7 Billion years that went past before I was born so the thought of the rest of eternity after I die is equally unscary.

I don't remember a thing about the 5,972 years that passed before I was born :pac:

Dades

pclancy wrote:

I don't remember a thing about the 1.7 Billion years that went past before I was born so the thought of the rest of eternity after I die is equally unscary.

I'm more scared about the bits of Saturday night I can't remember!

Damned early Six Nations kick-off...

Zombrex

Wacker wrote: »

I don't remember a thing about the 5,972 years that passed before I was born :pac:

ROFL

Galvasean

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Dean, why is eternal life so appealing? Think about it. You never die. It never ends. Ever. Eventually you will surely reach the point where you want out. But you can't get out. It's life eternal. I can't imagine a worse fate. Know and realise that your existence is finite and precious. Let that knowledge spur you on to make the best of it.

An episode of the Twighlight Zone actually dealt with this theme once. A criminal dies and meets up with his guardian angel who shows him the ropes around heaven. So he goes about livin' up th good life, having loads of fun etc. Eventually though, he starts to get bore of eternal bliss because everything is too easty, too on a plate, no challenge.
So he goes about checking up the file on his life. He reads about all the bad things he did and says to his guardian angel, "If I lived such a rotten life then how come I ended up here and not the other place?"
"What do you mean?" replies the angel, "This IS the other place! Mwhahahaaha!!!!!!"

Now that's some quality television.

Undergod

Dean820 wrote: »

I was asked to make a thread here after I made this comment in the Christianity forum 'I wish had my faith back and losing it was of the worst experiences in your life.' And I really do believe that. Its not about being right or wrong to me, although it would be nice to know what I believe in is right. Before everything was nice and simple, everything was in black and white. And in a way I guess that was comforting? I dunno. Now I believe when I die its just darkness, there's nothing there. And thats a depression thought. I used prey a lot when I was young and it used help calm me, I used get a nice feeling after doing it. But now even if I try I know I'm only fooling myself, I don't believe I'm actually talking to another thing or person anymore, its just me talking to myself. Again, thats a depressing thought. I just feel like I'm by myself now and that the entire universe and human race was one big accident that just happened to occur.

I'm sure there's other things but I can't think of them now. But is there anyone else here who's annoyed they don't have faith anymore?



Anyone?




Okay.

I find the idea of oblivion after death pretty ****ing terrifying. But it doesn't change the fact that it's what I think happens. I'm not going to lie to myself about believing in God and heaven, if I truly don't believe it. Faith based in fear doesn't seem like faith at all to me.

duvlinia

I felt sad for you reading your post.

I lost my father only 2 weeks ago and the whole experience has helped not only me, but my whole family restore our faith.

Like most Irish families we were raised on the backbone of the catholic faith. Liek most people we struggled to come to terms with recent revelations and just growing up through the torture that is sometimes life.

But some amazing things happend to us during our fathers death that convinces me of the afterlife and in God.

For me the question is What? or Who?.. is god?

For me God is the whole universe. Rather than seeing God as a person (mans arrogance) I see it as being absolutely everyone. We are all part of one organism that includes the sun and the stars, the cosmos, the earth, the trees, you and me, all working together in harmony... As ONE. To me the "ONE" whole thing is God.

I think that if someone so powerful can create all around us, then SURE he can send his son down to earth. Basically he can do anything.. Isnt that the point? So I can see that too.

I am far from being a bible basher, but it seems to me everyone is easily able to follow and admire great people such as John Lennon, and Mandela, and not so great like Simaon Cowel and Take that .. on a whim.

Dads death convinced me that there is an afterlife. What that afterlife is is pure speculation. But its there. I have witnessed it.

I am not critising or judging anyone. I believe in each to theri own. This is only my perspective and maybe it might ring a bell. Maybe nobody will read it. Thats how these things work.

But what I saw, witnessed and feel since and during my fathers passing is that he is still very much present. Personally I believe he has gone to heaven. But when he was alive he was part of this ONE organism as I put it. Just because his body has given up doenst mean he leaves the organism.

We need to stop seeing the body as the life force within us. It is our soul and the love it exudes which is the light and life within us.

To go through this agony and this extacy in our living year and then just cease to exist doesnt make sence. Even when a candle is extinquished it creates carbon dioxide which goes on to create something else.

There you go.. my thoughts on the subject.

First ever post too. Just joined.

Galvasean

duvlinia wrote: »

Dads death convinced me that there is an afterlife. What that afterlife is is pure speculation. But its there. I have witnessed it.

If I may ask, what exactly was it that you witnessed? Did something happen that hinted at an afterlife?

iUseVi

duvlinia wrote: »

There you go.. my thoughts on the subject.

First ever post too. Just joined.

Welcome.

duvlinia

Galvasean wrote: »

If I may ask, what exactly was it that you witnessed? Did something happen that hinted at an afterlife?

To be honest. It doesnt feel right embelishing here. But I witnessed around 20 different things. We all did.

The care nurse told us it was very common also.

I would liek to keep that part private out of respect.

Turtwig

Imagine I've just given you a tenner to buy a big pouch of scrumptious Malteasers but you decide to refuse those Malteasers because you hope that in 70 years time you'll have all the Malteasers in the world that were promised to by this ancient bearded guy as long as you follow his rules without question. To put in another way you would rather sacrifice something you already have for the hope (greed more like) of having something more when you die. You have a life now; live it, because it's the only thing you're ever guaranteed to actually have.

Dades

Welcome duvlinia, and sorry about your Dad.

You sound more like an optimistic Deist, than anything.

Mark Hamill

duvlinia wrote: »

To be honest. It doesnt feel right embelishing here. But I witnessed around 20 different things. We all did.

The care nurse told us it was very common also.

I would liek to keep that part private out of respect.

Then why mention it all? Without even explaining what you saw, why should any atheist pay any heed to what you claim?