M50 (almost) cone-free

whoami1

The M50 is almost totally cone-free now from Red Cow to Dundrum in both directions. All lanes are open.

:):):):):):):):):)

zootroid

Article in the independent:

DUBLIN commuters can heave a sigh of relief -- the four-year €1bn upgrade of the M50 is almost complete.

This morning, three lanes of motorway will be opened from Sandyford to the junction of the M1/Dublin Airport, which will allow motorists to cruise at 100kmh along 22km of high-spec road.

The massive upgrading project is now in its final stages, the National Roads Authority (NRA) said yesterday, with most of the mainline carriageway now fully completed.

Upgrading for five interchanges -- at Ballymun, Ashbourne/Finglas, M3 Blanchardstown, N81 Tallaght and Scholarstown/Firhouse -- will be finished by the end of the year.

NRA spokesman Sean O'Neill thanked motorists for their patience during the project, saying that some construction works posed unique and difficult challenges.

Surgery

"The upgrading of the Red Cow was referred to as doing open heart surgery on someone going to work," he said.

"You had to take 100,000 cars coming from north, south, east and west and rebuild the junction underneath their wheels, and separating the Luas from traffic and making the junction freeflow.

"A big challenge was also removing everything underground. There was telecommunications networks, sewers and drains and the entire lot had to be removed and relocated.

"The removal of the West Link toll plaza was enormous because it unclogged that section of the M50. But the effect was that people arrived at the interchanges quicker, which then clogged up because they weren't ready.

"You had existing infrastructure which had to be replaced while people were on it. Drivers were very patient but, at times, small mistakes had huge consequences. For example, if contractors didn't have all equipment off site at particular times there would be chaos."

The new third lane will open at 6am and runs in both directions between Junction 10 (Ballymount) and Junction 14 (Sandyford).

It comes a week after the opening of a third lane plus an auxiliary fourth lane connecting junctions on the M50 Northern Section in both directions between Junction 3 (M1/Airport) and Junction 6 (M3/Blanchardstown).

In total, today's opening, combined with the previous week equals 22km of additional motorway, added to the M50 mainline which will result in improved traffic flow.

"We are pleased with the progress of work along the M50 mainline," NRA chief executive Fred Barry said. "There are still upgrade works to be completed at some of the junctions, but this is major step in the right direction. The M50 remains on schedule for full completion by the end of 2010."

Much of the remaining work will be completed by the middle of next year.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fouryear-upgrade-of-m50-nears-the-finish-line-2052958.html

Thought the speed limit was 120, and not 100 as stated in the article?

Thoie

zootroid wrote: »

Thought the speed limit was 120, and not 100 as stated in the article?

I haven't been on it yet, but it was 100 (southbound) as far as the Red Cow. All the new signs that they put up a few weeks ago between J10 and J14 said 100, then it switches to 120 just after J14.

KevR

Speed limit will remain 100kmh because of narrower than usual lanes and inadequate sightlines for 120kmh cruising.

theteal

it was a beautiful drive in to work this morning from Ballymount to Dun L, arrived a full 40mins early fresh as a daisy and in unusually great form

i read a good while ago that the whole M50 was going to be a 100kmph zone, which does suck. . .better than 60 though

spacetweek

zootroid wrote: »

Thought the speed limit was 120, and not 100 as stated in the article?

It was never 120 at any stage. The sequence was:

60mph, 100km/h, 60km/h, 100km/h.

100km/h is appropriate for an urban motorway as there is lots of weaving traffic due to the very high volumes and closely spaced junctions.

I noted this morning heading SB towards Sandyford that nearly every car was in Lane 2 not Lane 1. I think something is psychologically preventing them from driving in Lane 1, the expectation that it might run out ahead possibly.

Or maybe they're just bad drivers

Thoie

spacetweek wrote: »

I noted this morning heading SB towards Sandyford that nearly every car was in Lane 2 not Lane 1. I think something is psychologically preventing them from driving in Lane 1, the expectation that it might run out ahead possibly.

Or maybe they're just bad drivers

Good question - does lane 1 run out somewhere? If you're heading south, doesn't it revert back to 2 lanes at/after junction 14? What markings do they have there - does lane 1 suddenly turn into the off ramp for J14, or does lane 3 merge into lane 2?

I haven't seen it yet, so it might be obvious once you're on it, but if I'm tootling merrily down lane 1, will it surprise me by turning into an off ramp, or will I have some warning to signal my intention and switch into the lane to my right? Or should I just buy a <particular car make> and alternate between sailing down lane 3 at all times, and randomly flinging myself from lane to lane as I feel like it?

Guy:Incognito

Thoie wrote: »

Good question - does lane 1 run out somewhere?

It's never going to run out abruptly without notice, so no problem driving in lane 1 .:)

Redsoxfan

Thoie wrote: »

Good question - does lane 1 run out somewhere? If you're heading south, doesn't it revert back to 2 lanes at/after junction 14? What markings do they have there - does lane 1 suddenly turn into the off ramp for J14, or does lane 3 merge into lane 2?

It may cause problems alright IMHO.

Thoie

Stekelly wrote: »

It's never going to run out abruptly without notice, so no problem driving in lane 1 .:)

Aw, but everyone likes surprises!

Seriously though, I'm picturing it something like the attached jpeg, where lane 1 becomes part of the off ramp, and lanes 2 and 3 keep going straight - is that right? In which case, people continuing south should, at some point after J13, move into the second lane to go straight ahead.

alentejo

The quality of finish of the new southern cross section of the 3 lane M50 is much better than the N81 to N3 (western parkway) 3 lane expansion.

The surface is better. It appears to be better painted. The one pet hate of mine of the western parkway upgrade is the mess of the hard shoulder. It has never been swept since it was upgraded. The new southern cross section has been properlery swept and cleaned prior to opening.

Well done to the people involved with the southern cross upgrade.

murpho999

spacetweek wrote: »

It was never 120 at any stage. The sequence was:

60mph, 100km/h, 60km/h, 100km/h.

100km/h is appropriate for an urban motorway as there is lots of weaving traffic due to the very high volumes and closely spaced junctions.

I noted this morning heading SB towards Sandyford that nearly every car was in Lane 2 not Lane 1. I think something is psychologically preventing them from driving in Lane 1, the expectation that it might run out ahead possibly.

Or maybe they're just bad drivers

It really is bad driving. It really annoys me how Irish people don't know how to drive on motorways. New M50 upgrade is great but it's going to be wasted as people insist on thinking that they are 'slow lane of shame', 'Fast lane' and 'Faster lane' instead of 'normal driving lane' and 2 overtaking lanes.
Throw in joining motorways at 60km an hour and overtaking on inside aswell. It just drives me crazy. All down to the driving test still not going on motorways. NRA/RSA should really tackle this and change the test and also run ad campaigns!

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

It really is bad driving. It really annoys me how Irish people don't know how to drive on motorways. New M50 upgrade is great but it's going to be wasted as people insist on thinking that they are 'slow lane of shame', 'Fast lane' and 'Faster lane' instead of 'normal driving lane' and 2 overtaking lanes.
Throw in joining motorways at 60km an hour and overtaking on inside aswell. It just drives me crazy. All down to the driving test still not going on motorways. NRA/RSA should really tackle this and change the test and also run ad campaigns!

Dual carriageway driving is the same, no excuse there!
It's really education, how to drive on multilane roads, leave suffucient space for merging/weaving traffic, when joining - match the speed of lane one traffic and slot into a gap, keeping to the left empty lane - the middle lane is OK to drive in if the left lane is already "full". etc

fed16

what a great job!

after 18months of driving on the m50 SB, this morning was a total joy. thank god it's finished.

pity poeple didnt have the foresight when initally designing the motorway 15 years ago or whenever it was built. still super job now

Irish and Proud

fed16 wrote: »

what a great job!

after 18months of driving on the m50 SB, this morning was a total joy. thank god it's finished.

pity poeple didnt have the foresight when initally designing the motorway 15 years ago or whenever it was built. still super job now

...yeah, the surface is not 100% but is still quite reasonable - have seen other urban type motorways in Europe and the M50 would certainly be one of the better ones - good long entries/exits (though some ramps are like roller-coasters). Also, the lane layouts are quite good - the M50 needs just two things - an electronic traffic control system , and an upgrade to its motorists! :rolleyes: (starting with lane discipline)! The Naas road would be another candidate for motorist upgrade!

Regards!

fed16

How long do you think it will take from M1 junction to J15 in the mornings? Say if arriving at M1/M50 at 7am?

Assuming that there are no accidents

Soon we will need to find another use for all those cones, there must be millions of them spare now!

PauloMN

spacetweek wrote: »

I noted this morning heading SB towards Sandyford that nearly every car was in Lane 2 not Lane 1. I think something is psychologically preventing them from driving in Lane 1, the expectation that it might run out ahead possibly.

+1

I've noticed this since the advent of 3 lane roads here, some driver education needed - maybe some TV ads like the roundabout campaign years ago or the "Keep Left" ads.

It's becoming a real problem and is - to a certain extent - negating the benefits of the extra lane. Wasn't just one or two cars either at the weekend on the M50 - there were lines of them in the middle lane, with the left lane completely (I mean completely!) empty.

KevR

Maybe the RSA could fund a "Kept Left" TV campaign. It's a safety issue, as well as an effeciency issue.

Alun

PauloMN wrote: »

It's becoming a real problem and is - to a certain extent - negating the benefits of the extra lane. Wasn't just one or two cars either at the weekend on the M50 - there were lines of them in the middle lane, with the left lane completely (I mean completely!) empty.

... with a large number of those IME being so-called "professional" drivers, i.e. trucks.

Irish and Proud

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I took the liberty of saving that DWF file in the EIS of the NRA Motorway cross sections as a PDF . You can see for yourself the differences between

2+2 ( D2AP) or country motorway
HQDC ( D2M) or heavy duty motorway near big cities
Standard Motorway (D2M) which would be like the M6 west of Kinnegad or the M7 west of Portlaoise.

All zoomable and printable

WOW! Part of the M20 will be even wider than the M50 - the M50 Dual 4 lane sections are around 38m from verge to verge - the M20 Quad 2 lane section will be a whopping 48m across!!! That's 8 lanes!!!

Love to see this road in action!

The M50 however has a 2+3+3+2 section from Ballinteer to Sandyford - saw it from the Enniskerry Road Flyover and it looks very impressive!

:D:D

Irish and Proud

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Including 'side lanes' and collectors and the mainline part of the N25 at the Kinsale road flyover, you get 11 lanes

A very short part of the M50 (from Sandyford to Leopardstown (around 400m I think) is a Sex 2 lane Motorway (very sexy indeed! ) - that's 12 lanes including:

2 lane SB off-ramp for the N31 (Leopardstown);
2 lane SB on-ramp from the R113/R133 (Sandyford Roundabout);
2 lane SB M50 mainline (Bray);
2 lane NB M50 mainline (Airport);
2 lane NB on-ramp from the N31 (Leopardstown);
2 lane NB off-ramp for the R113/R133 (Sandyford Roundabout).

Dublin wins!!! :D:D

Hogzy

Irish and Proud wrote: »

A very short part of the M50 (from Sandyford to Leopardstown (around 400m I think) is a Sex 2 lane Motorway (very sexy indeed! ) - that's 12 lanes including:

2 lane SB off-ramp for the N31 (Leopardstown);
2 lane SB on-ramp from the R113/R133 (Sandyford Roundabout);
2 lane SB M50 mainline (Bray);
2 lane NB M50 mainline (Airport);
2 lane NB on-ramp from the N31 (Leopardstown);
2 lane NB off-ramp for the R113/R133 (Sandyford Roundabout).

Dublin wins!!! :D:D

So is that area not being upgraded to 3 lanes or what?

Irish and Proud

Hogzy wrote: »

So is that area not being upgraded to 3 lanes or what?

No, the M50 Upgrade stops just short of that section - to where the N31 (Leopardstown) slips leave the M50.

Regards!

Carawaystick

Neither the r133 nor the r113's motorway though, the clue is in the name.....

Irish and Proud

Carawaystick wrote: »

Neither the r133 nor the r113's motorway though, the clue is in the name.....

...these are not the parallel roads between Ballinteer and Sandyford I'm on about - they,re the on/off ramps between Sandyford and Leopardstown - they are part of the M50 as they are under motorway regulations.

Roryhy

The section of m50 Irish and proud is talking about-

spacetweek

KevR wrote: »

Maybe the RSA could fund a "Kept Left" TV campaign. It's a safety issue, as well as an effeciency issue.

Have mailed them about this. Suggest you guys do the same.

spacetweek

The email I sent.

Hi there

In the last couple of years, many multilane motorway sections have opened around Ireland, particularly in the Dublin region, where motorways even wider than 4 lanes, and as much as 8 lanes, are now commonplace.

Sadly, driver education in this respect is lacking.

Anecdotal evidence suggests that Irish drivers do not understand fundamental concepts of driving on motorways such as the keep-left rule, and indicating when changing lanes. All of the lanes are treated as driving lanes with predictable consequences. This has implications for safety, and, in heavy traffic conditions, traffic flow.

I suggest that the RSA launch a one-time public television and billboard campaign to drive home a few simple rules: keep left unless overtaking or passing slower moving traffic; do not undertake, especially when merging; and always mirror and signal when changing motorway lane.

The long term fix here is to include the above in the standard driving test. Soon motorways, or their close equivalent, will be commonplace throughout the nation. A stint on a motorway should become part and parcel of the driving test.

Please let me know if you are planning anything of the sort.
Yours,

orourkeda

Should be good. We can all resume crashing into each other at high speeds pretty soon. Its gonna be deadly

spacetweek

The response!

Dear Mr. XX,

Thank you for your e-mail dated 10 March 2010 regarding an education campaign on safe motorway driving.

Poor driving practices are a concern to the Road Safety Authority (RSA) as indeed they are to the wider community. It is the policy of the RSA and our partners to eliminate poor driving practices, including proper motorway driving etiquette through a mix of media advertising, publicity, education and community activities. This way the RSA seeks to positively influence attitudes and behaviour in order to improve Ireland's "Road Safety" culture.

The Rules of the Road comprehensively covers all aspects of safety for all road users including correct motorway driving etiquette. To complement the Rules of the Road, the Road Safety Authority Rules of the Road website contains some useful videos on better, safer driving (the safer driving edicts), including driving on motorways which can be found at the link below:

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/videos.html#motorways

The RSA has and continues to run driver education campaigns through the media and will be running a campaign on safe motorway driving this November.

I would like to thank you for taking the time to highlight your concerns as your input into making our roads safer is highly valued by the RSA

Regards

That site is s**t, I can't find any vids on motorways in particular. Hard to navigate too.

Jayuu

I think they seriously need to do some driver education as soon as possible because I am so tired of seeing people driving at 60km/h in the outside two lanes of the M50. I'm not an advocate of excessive speed but there is no sense of people understanding how multi-lane motorways should work.

In the meantime they could also do with fixing the mess they have made of the old M50/M1 roundabout. Coming on to the M50 from the N32 has become a nightmare in the last few weeks because for years people used the outside and middle lanes to get off the roundabout and onto the M50 which had two entry lanes. However with the advent of the freeflow from the M1 there is now only one entry lane to the M50 from the roundabout and so really only the outside lane should be used. But people continue to use both lanes with the result that in the last two weeks alone I have seen four near accidents because of cars in both lanes attempting to get onto the M50. Its only a matter of time before there is an accident at this point. I'm just hoping that I'm not involved when it does happen.

The annoying part of this is that they have repainted the entire roundabout and the approach from the N32 recently. If they had put arrows and information on the lanes and a few signs on the N32 approach it would solve the problem very easily. One can't simply blame the drivers here because this is a change of the way the road works.

highdef

I agree completely Jayuu. I've seen the results of two accidents here already. When coming to the end of the N32 at the M50/M1 roundabout, the left lane should be marked for M50 and M1 south and the right lane should be marked North/Airport ONLY. Then on the three lanes on the roundabout itself, the left lane should be M50 south ONLY and the two right lanes for North/Airport ONLY. This would solve all the conflicts here, as long as people can follow the road signs!! The best thing about this is that there are currently no road markings in place so it's a clean sheet. It's absolutely stupid and dangerous the way it is set up now. It's basically two lanes merging on an S-bend. I'm sure there are fender benders galore here.

M50 Traffic management.....any comments on this?

There are also major problems with the lane marking at the Ballymun interchange but that's for another day!!

Alos at the same junction, there is the stupid left merge on the M50 north to Port tunnel freeflow, the driving lane merges into the overlaking lane.

Was that designed by a yank that forgot what side of the road we drive on! :rolleyes:

KevR

My sister, who has not interest whatsoever in roads, has been using the M50 --> PT free-flow for the last few weeks. She has been impressed by the "absolutely massive tilting flyover" and is glad to not have to use the old signal controlled roundabout.

I still haven't driven on either of the right-turning free-flows at J3. Have passed under the whole junction (i.e. - M1 South to PT) a few times since it was completed and used the old roundabout loads of times while the junction was in the process of being rebuilt. Can't wait to drive on the new free-flows.

Irish and Proud

KevR wrote: »

My sister, who has not interest whatsoever in roads, has been using the M50 --> PT free-flow for the last few weeks. She has been impressed by the "absolutely massive tilting flyover" and is glad to not have to use the old signal controlled roundabout.

I still haven't driven on either of the right-turning free-flows at J3. Have passed under the whole junction (i.e. - M1 South to PT) a few times since it was completed and used the old roundabout loads of times while the junction was in the process of being rebuilt. Can't wait to drive on the new free-flows.

I have been on the M1 South to M50 South connector - it has a good smooth lead in, but as it turns left and right before the N32 flyover, it's rather steep. From the N32 flyover, the slip bends quite gently to the right and is very flat - this section is nice, especially as it glides over the M1 towards the M50. After the M1 bridge, the road dips again in order to join the traffic from the N32, after which it joins with the DPT traffic.

IMO, by international standards for the type of junction, the slip is by no means too short - it's quite long actually - it's just that is has a plateau profile in vertical alignment rather than a continuous arc. It seems the N32 could have been lowered (with the roundabout converted to a teardrop as right turns from the M50 C-Ring are no longer necessary) so that the connector would have a lesser climb to what would be a lower N32 flyover. At the other end, the N32 slip (from the roundabout) might have been raised in order to lessen the drop that the connector in question now has to make in order to join. The connector should really be the main priority in that the N32 elements mentioned should have been made to fit the connector rather than vice-versa.

I have yet to see the other connector, but it looks even longer - I pass under this junction many a day (from the M1 to M50 DPT) and the junction does look pretty good.

Regards!

Bruthal

murpho999 wrote: »

It really is bad driving. It really annoys me how Irish people don't know how to drive on motorways.

Or roundabouts, or national roads, or dual carriageways, or country roads, or any roads, or any tarmacadam surface by the look of what ye`d see every day on our roads.

Jayuu

Well, I had another scary incident at the N32 --> M50 interchange again today in the same manner as before (somebody in the middle lane of the roundabout attempting to join the M50 and having to cut across traffic in the correct left lane). It really does beggar belief that we can't get some decent signage here and road painting. Do we have to have a serious incident before somebody takes notice?

There's also been some very strange line painting on the road between the two N32 roundabouts. There are two lanes coming off the Bewley's roundabout. Around 100 yards up we suddenly get a hard shoulder on the left and one driving lane which lasts for around another 100 yards and then suddenly we are back into two driving lanes again and no hard shoulder. As yet most people completely ignore the hard shoulder bit and the road is treated as if its a two lane road but who came up with this idea. God forbid that somebody should ever attempt to stop in this place as they would probably be run into from behind within a couple of seconds.

Finally there's also a huge amount of confusion if you want to go from the N32 around the roundabout to the M1 north because the lane layout has changed. You used to be able to use the middle and right hand lanes of the roundabout if you wanted to go north onto the M1 at the traffic lights. However now the right hand lane is not usable for that purpose. Instead you should take the middle lane which then opens out to the left into two lanes after the M50 exit. But because there is no signage or road painting you get people in the right hand lane suddenly arriving at the traffic lights and only then realising that they are now in the wrong lane. So now you have three potential lanes of traffic trying to cross the junction and merge into one lane on the slip road entrance to the M50. You really have to have your wits about you to avoid a collision at times.

I know there is always an adjustment time when new roads open but it seems like nobody associated with this project ever considered how traffic flow should operate when approaching from the N32 to the interchange roundabout. A little bit of signage and road painting would help a huge amount (although you will always have people who just don't read signs).

Jayuu

Does anybody know why they have started to dig again at the junction of the M50 and the old airport roundabout? I don't know if its remedial works but it seems crazy that less than five months after completion its being dug up again.

It also seems to have been decided that if you come to the roundabout from the N32 the left lane is now only for city bound traffic whereas the right hand lane is for M50 (southbound) and M1 traffic. I don't know if this is a temporary measure while these works are being done but its seems crazy that since probably 90% of traffic is going for the M50 (southbound) or M1 to have only one lane for this.

Indeed the approach from the N32 has been really badly designed. I still see lots of people use the left lane to go straight onto the roundabout causing all sorts of merge chaos at the far side on the M50 (southbound).

highdef

Jayuu wrote: »

Does anybody know why they have started to dig again at the junction of the M50 and the old airport roundabout? I don't know if its remedial works but it seems crazy that less than five months after completion its being dug up again.

It also seems to have been decided that if you come to the roundabout from the N32 the left lane is now only for city bound traffic whereas the right hand lane is for M50 (southbound) and M1 traffic. I don't know if this is a temporary measure while these works are being done but its seems crazy that since probably 90% of traffic is going for the M50 (southbound) or M1 to have only one lane for this.

Indeed the approach from the N32 has been really badly designed. I still see lots of people use the left lane to go straight onto the roundabout causing all sorts of merge chaos at the far side on the M50 (southbound).

I think the main reason for this work is to make the join from the roundabout to the M50 southbound safer. The setup before was very haphazard....some remedial work was done by adding a short merge lane but the road surface is not really up to scratch for this extra slip lane.

The way it is right now seems quite fine to me. From the N32, left lane for the city and right lane for M50 and M1 north. If in the right lane, you then have a choice of which lane you chose on the roundabout without any conflicts. there seems to be no delay with cars using one lane instead of two. It's safer to seperate the traffic here rather than have cars trying to merge at highish speeds and on bends when starting on the M50.

As for people not going left for the city from the N32 when in the left lane....that is purely a case of people driving without due care and attention. Although there is only one road marking saying left lane for the city ONLY (another road marking or two further back down the road would be a good idea), there is plenty of large bright orange signs which show very obviously what lane you should be in. If the drivers cannot get into the correct lane by the time they get to the roundabout, then I'd be very worried of there simple observation skills. I'm sure there will be some crashes at this roundabout due to people's inabilities to follow signage but I'm sure if you drive in the correct manner as is signposted, you'll be safe from any incrimination should there be a collision. Just watch out for vehicles suddenly swerving into your lane from the left if you are going from the right lane of the N32.

Jayuu

I'll wait and see what emerges before I pass final judgement but I don't necessarily agree with the allocation of lanes. More traffic is heading for the M50 southbound and M1 so to push all of that traffic into one lane is just going to creatre longer queues. Meanwhile the hard shoulder painted on the left hand lane is being ignored which means that this lane will have much shorter queues. What's going to happen is that you're going to get people who obey the lane allocation getting frustrated with people zipping up on the left hand side and gaining an advantage. Over a period of time more and more people are going to do this.

This will mean that people are always going to use the left lane for getting onto the roundabout's left lane and the right hand lane is going to be used for the roundabout's middle lane in defiance of the directional signage. It's actually quite hard to get from the right hand lane of the M32 into the left hand lane of the roundabout. Its much more natural to go for the middle lane so people will end up doing this.

At least if there is a longer merge lane onto the M50 on the far side it should help with the problems and minimise the risk of collision but it clearly wasn't thought out well at all given this remedial work.