Ireland has 10th safest roads in world: OECD

KevR

Zoney wrote: »

Well, as good as the rank is, just imagine what it would be if one of the biggest issues in the country was tackled - drink. There are still far too many reports of single car collisions in the wee hours of the morning, although presumably some are just the hazards of driving at night on country roads.

Some of these are also caused by driver fatigue. At least there are some MSAs finally being built and some more planned - they should help to reduce accidents related to driver fatigue.

Bill G

murphaph wrote: »

Properly implemented, the NCT would without any doubt reduce fatalities. The only question is whether or not it's properly implemented when the original rules about a requirement for a valid NCT cert to be presented in order to tax the car seem to have fallen by the wayside, which is a shame.

the NCT catches (or should catch in theory) things like leaking and cracked brake hoses, brake imbalances, worn shocks etc. which absolutely contribute to safety of the vehicle.

I just wonder why the majority of those brake hoses fail between 1am - 4am
causing all those needless deaths?

L1011

Bill G wrote: »

I just wonder why the majority of those brake hoses fail between 1am - 4am
causing all those needless deaths?

Congratulations on failing to deflect to a pointless side argument - the NCT has had a noticeable impact on the quality and age of cars on Ireland's roads, which has had a noticeable impact on how many accidents now result in injury (or no injury) rather than death.

Before the NCT came in, there were many ancient death-traps on the roads - now there aren't. Thats undeniable.

Bill G

MYOB wrote: »

Before the NCT came in, there were many ancient death-traps on the roads - now there aren't. Thats undeniable.

Driver error accounts for over 80% of all fatal and injury crashes in Ireland. So, yes, before NCT came in, there were many ancient cars on the road. Now they are not there, very true.

But it's not the brake hoses, etc that makes the car a death-trap, it is the driver, specifically speeding and drink driving.

Zubeneschamali

Bill G wrote: »

Driver error accounts for over 80% of all fatal and injury crashes in Ireland.

But in a modern car with airbags, crumple zones and a passenger safety cell, the accident will be more survivable. With working brakes, real tyres, ABS and stability control, drivers may avoid a crash even after making an error.

L1011

Bill G wrote: »

Driver error accounts for over 80% of all fatal and injury crashes in Ireland. So, yes, before NCT came in, there were many ancient cars on the road. Now they are not there, very true.

But it's not the brake hoses, etc that makes the car a death-trap, it is the driver, specifically speeding and drink driving.

You're not getting the point - or more specifically I'd suspect you're ignoring it.

If you come in to a potential incident in a 1989 Corrolla with dodgy brakes and bald tyres, you're far less likely to escape the incident than someone in a new car. When you then crash said heap, you're far more likely to be injured or killed than someone in a new car.

Let me guess, your "perfectly good otherwise" car failed the NCT on one of these issues and you're extremely bitter about it?

Bill G

MYOB wrote: »

You're not getting the point - or more specifically I'd suspect you're ignoring it.

If you come in to a potential incident in a 1989 Corrolla with dodgy brakes and bald tyres, you're far less likely to escape the incident than someone in a new car. When you then crash said heap, you're far more likely to be injured or killed than someone in a new car.

Let me guess, your "perfectly good otherwise" car failed the NCT on one of these issues and you're extremely bitter about it?

No, you're not getting the point. Using your example above, my 89 Corrolla with perfect brakes, new tyres and with its shiny new NCT cert in the windscreen is just as survivable in an accident as one with dodgy brakes and tyres. You don't fail the NCT if your car is not equiped with ABS, airbags or stability control. What is does do is check that the *existing* safety items are working. While of course this is useful, my original point is that an extremely small amount of fatal accidents are caused by someone's brakes failing, or a light missing, or the reg plate not displaying the county in Irish, etc. It's almost always the driver doing something wrong.

And no, i didn't fail the NCT, I just don't bother getting my car tested anymore. I'm able to maintain it to my standards, and I don't need to pay someone 76 euros to tell me the emissions are not factory perfect or the brake lights are different colours. And since the Garda enforce the NCT compliance just about as well as they enforce all the other existing traffic laws, I don't worry a stich about it....

ForiegnNational

Zoney wrote: »

It would be interesting to hear the comments of any non-Irish contributors as to what they think contributes to this rank?

Well as said non-Irish contributors, I have seen four major contributory factors to the decrease in deaths in Ireland over the past 7 years of living here. Most of the items have been touched elsewhere:

1. Driving Licenses - No longer an optional item. When I got there the sheer number of drivers who had absolutely no concept of good/safe driving was astronomical (I would say in 2003, about 20-30% of drivers were brutal). This has fallen to a much lower level (in line with UK / France / Germany) since the enforcement licenses (although I still see far to many obviously unaccompanied Learner drivers for my liking).

2. Drink - If the number of anecdotal stories of people driving home blind-drunk is a barometer of how things have changed, Ireland had a fundamental attitude change in the last five years alone. So many friends tell stories of how they used to drive quite happily after 3 or more pints. Those stories have now ceased. The only anecdotes I now here are unfortunately in the older late 40-50's, who are the same in the UK and seem determined on not changing their ways. (This is a purely personal opinion based on stories and anecdotes I have heard directly, please do not flame me for ageism)

3. New Roads - I laughed out loud about three + years ago when the Garda in charge of the N1/M1 came on to crow about how road deaths had fallen by about 90% because of the opening of the new motorway! It seemed to be a surprise to him that good quality roads could have such an impact!

4. The "Celtic Tiger" affect - Lets face it, how many of you yourselves, or people you know of, have bought new shiny premium cars over the past 7 years? I worked near Cork Airport and during the boom we used to take a lunch time stroll around the roads doing a "luxury" car count (Range Rover, Porsche, Jaguar, Mercedes, Audi's, Saabs and BMW's). All of these have superior safety features, thereby reducing fatalities. Even non-luxury brands of car over the past 5 years have safety features that only Volvo would have had 10 years ago. To an outsider, itt seemed as though everybody in Ireland bought a new car in 2003-2006, possibly every year!

Personally I cannot say the change that the NCT has made as it was always present during my time here, so I don't know what death traps were driving on the road before it's implementation.

Bards

Bill G wrote: »

No, you're not getting the point. Using your example above, my 89 Corrolla with perfect brakes, new tyres and with its shiny new NCT cert in the windscreen is just as survivable in an accident as one with dodgy brakes and tyres. You don't fail the NCT if your car is not equiped with ABS, airbags or stability control. What is does do is check that the *existing* safety items are working. While of course this is useful, my original point is that an extremely small amount of fatal accidents are caused by someone's brakes failing, or a light missing, or the reg plate not displaying the county in Irish, etc. It's almost always the driver doing something wrong.

And no, i didn't fail the NCT, I just don't bother getting my car tested anymore. I'm able to maintain it to my standards, and I don't need to pay someone 76 euros to tell me the emissions are not factory perfect or the brake lights are different colours. And since the Garda enforce the NCT compliance just about as well as they enforce all the other existing traffic laws, I don't worry a stich about it....

Does anyone know if your insurance is still valid if you don't have a NCT cert?

Zubeneschamali

Bill G wrote: »

And no, i didn't fail the NCT, I just don't bother getting my car tested anymore.

It's true that the NCT is not enforced by the guards, but it hardly matters. The NCT is mostly enforced because no-one will pay more than scrap value for a car without an NCT cert.

So, if it's not worth fixing up so that it passes an NCT, it gets scrapped. That gets the worst cars off the road without the guards doing anything, bar the few people who run a banger right into the ground.

L1011

Bill G wrote: »

No, you're not getting the point. Using your example above, my 89 Corrolla with perfect brakes, new tyres and with its shiny new NCT cert in the windscreen is just as survivable in an accident as one with dodgy brakes and tyres. You don't fail the NCT if your car is not equiped with ABS, airbags or stability control. What is does do is check that the *existing* safety items are working. While of course this is useful, my original point is that an extremely small amount of fatal accidents are caused by someone's brakes failing, or a light missing, or the reg plate not displaying the county in Irish, etc. It's almost always the driver doing something wrong.

And no, i didn't fail the NCT, I just don't bother getting my car tested anymore. I'm able to maintain it to my standards, and I don't need to pay someone 76 euros to tell me the emissions are not factory perfect or the brake lights are different colours. And since the Garda enforce the NCT compliance just about as well as they enforce all the other existing traffic laws, I don't worry a stich about it....

So you refuse to accept the NCT has had an impact on road safety because you refuse to get one then - you could have just admitted that at the start and saved us a lot of time.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if your "standards" of maintenance fall far short of actual safety.

BluntGuy

Bill G wrote: »

And no, i didn't fail the NCT, I just don't bother getting my car tested anymore. I'm able to maintain it to my standards, and I don't need to pay someone 76 euros to tell me the emissions are not factory perfect or the brake lights are different colours. And since the Garda enforce the NCT compliance just about as well as they enforce all the other existing traffic laws, I don't worry a stich about it....

And what are these standards? How do you rigourously check to see your car is in suitable nick? What makes your standards comparable to the people with knowledge and experience in the field who work for NCT?

Sure anyone could say they can maintain it to "their" standards. Your standards might be excellent, but the next person who doesn't bother with NCT might consider "excellent" standards to be simply that the car doesn't explode on a trip to Tesco.

Victor

There are lots of factors at play

* 10 years of 4 and 5 star cars.
* Improved roads.
* Formation of RSA and expansion of Garda Traffic Corp.
* People eventually starting to behave themselves on drink driving.
* The move from pub drinking to home drinking.
* Recreational drugs are relatively more expensive.
* With the recession, less traffic (especially HGVs) on the road. Fewer people in a mad rush.
* More people have actually done a driving test.
* Older people actually wearing their seatbelts.
* NCT and the old scrapage scheme removed quite a few bangers and generally improved brakes and the like.

fricatus wrote: »

since it's the national road network that carries the bulk of the traffic in this country.

While it carries a disproportionate percentage, its still only about 40% of traffic and 40% of deaths. Therefore, making all or national roads motorways would only affect about 40% of deaths.

Remember how many fatal accidents there used to be on the old N1, for example? With the new motorway, these simply disappeared.

Oddly there are still quite a few on the R132.

L1011

The drugs being "more expensive" is one thing on that list I have to disagree with Victor, they definitely aren't! Ecstacy tablets or what was sold as them in the 1990s cost up to £20, they're now under €5, and so on.

Taxi deregulation has probably had some part - not that you could calculate a weight for it - in reducing drink/drug driving deaths. Its far easier to get a taxi now, reducing the chances of people deciding to drive.

Victor

MYOB wrote: »

The drugs being "more expensive" is one thing on that list I have to disagree with Victor, they definitely aren't! Ecstacy tablets or what was sold as them in the 1990s cost up to £20, they're now under €5, and so on.

I'm comparing 2006 and 2010. While drugs may have become cheaper, incomes have also dropped. Now sure, its a supply and demand situation, but eventually its a matter for a drub smuggler "Do I supply to Ireland at €X or to the UK at €X+Y?".

ForiegnNational wrote: »

Personally I cannot say the change that the NCT has made as it was always present during my time here, so I don't know what death traps were driving on the road before it's implementation.

Imagine a disproportionate number of 15 year old Toyota saloons where holes have rusted through the body work, belch smoke screens that the army would be proud over and can be heard 200m away on a city street.

rameire

March 'safest month ever' on Irish roads

The Department of Transport said there were 11 fatalities during the month, bringing the total number of road deaths this year to 40, down 17 on this time last year.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/march-safest-month-ever-on-irish-roads-452321.html

KevR

Exceptionally dry weather must have helped along with the extra sections of new roads which have opened since this time last year.

L1011

Victor wrote: »

I'm comparing 2006 and 2010. While drugs may have become cheaper, incomes have also dropped. Now sure, its a supply and demand situation, but eventually its a matter for a drub smuggler "Do I supply to Ireland at €X or to the UK at €X+Y?".

The drug of choice for most for about a year now hasn't required smuggling (yet).

KevR

KevR wrote: »

Exceptionally dry weather must have helped along with the extra sections of new roads which have opened since this time last year.

Add to that the effects of the recession, fewer commuters and fewer nights out!