George Lee resigns from Fine Gael and Dail!!!

limklad

dats_right wrote: »

Many posters have said that this move shows the man's principles and I suppose is true, but in my opinion it shows much more than that, it shows a complete lack of judgement and almost childlike naivety and temprement on his part. And despite his self-serving nstatement to the contrary he has seriously let down his constituents, who elected him only a few short months ago.

If you are not allowed to do your job that you were offered and you already told them you only do the job if you are allowed to make real difference and then are given minimal tasks way below you can do, what the point in staying in it? It not selfish to leave a job where you are prevented in doing on what you promised you do.

People like doing what they do best and to make a real difference. His hands were tied due to Fine Gael party politics. Fair play to him to showing that he has good integrity and allowing the people in his constituency to elect an new TD and that they have no say and are been ignored in FG politics after electing George Lee to do a job he was prevented in doing by them.

Good People will think again before putting them forward to be elected. The Electorate system do need reform by kicking out the old stock of bullsh*tters, who lie and gives false promises at elections.

peasant

Red_Marauder wrote: »

it appears Lee just couldnt accept that he needed to learn.

Learn what exactly ?

Tommy Bateman

Ah sure that George Lee fella was all a bit of hype from them Fine Gaelers. Lenny may not be glamourous or groovy like Lee, but dammit he gets the job done, and thats whats going to get the country back on track. No loss here, except to them FG crowd.

Red_Marauder

peasant wrote: »

Learn what exactly ?

Learn the difference between being an analyst/ journalist and being an organizer, a public representative and an administrator. Being in administration or higher management is not the same as being an expert.

Experts are the people who advise ministers, ministers are the people who are supposed to advise the nation, and balance specific economic or educational or environmental advice with other long term interests and policies. Maybe Lee is more suited to life as a department secretary.

Ally Dick

rubensni wrote: »

...and Kenny is a drag on the party figures. If you can't see that you're either Enda Kenny or are wilfully blind.

Enda Kenny is like a Religion teacher. He is dogmatic and serious, but at the end of the day, nothing he says to you in class makes a blind bit of difference to your education or further career. He is about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike

limklad

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Learn the difference between being an analyst/ journalist and being an organizer, a public representative and an administrator. Being in administration or higher management is not the same as being an expert.

Experts are the people who advise ministers, ministers are the people who are supposed to advise the nation, and balance specific economic or educational or environmental advice with other long term interests and policies. Maybe Lee is more suited to life as a department secretary.

Fine Gael went after George Lee for his expertise, not the other way around. They sidelined him rather than put him to work. They just wanted a "yes man" and a"poster boy", not a doer in which the people wanted and elected. Fine Gael need to go the way the PD's along with FF.

peasant

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Learn the difference between being an analyst/ journalist and being an organizer, a public representative and an administrator. Being in administration or higher management is not the same as being an expert.

Experts are the people who advise ministers, ministers are the people who are supposed to advise the nation, and balance specific economic or educational or environmental advice with other long term interests and policies.

So you're saying it's a good thing that traditionally Irish ministers haven't a clue of their portfolio?
It's a good thing that they have to rely on the advice of outside advisers for direction and the hard graft of long term entrenched civil servants for the administration?

Give me an expert minister any day

ednwireland

.......going back to a semi state where he will be an objective politcal commentator ?

i dont know what to make of apart from an image of him throwing toys out of a pram

Red_Marauder

peasant wrote: »

So you're saying it's a good thing that traditionally Irish ministers haven't a clue of their portfolio?

Don't have a clue? Where on earth are you getting this from? Why don't you read the post

It's a good thing that they have to rely on the advice of outside advisers for direction and the hard graft of long term entrenched civil servants for the administration?

Again, you're completely going off on some bizarre conclusion - i'm saying experts are necessary, and they are. But experts are hired for their knowledge and ministers are supposed to be, ideally, hired for their wisdom.

George Lee has a lot of knowledge but I'm very dubious about his wisdom given his recent behaviour.

Red_Marauder

limklad wrote: »

Fine Gael went after George Lee for his expertise, not the other way around. They sidelined him rather than put him to work. They just wanted a "yes man" and a"poster boy", not a doer in which the people wanted and elected. Fine Gael need to go the way the PD's along with FF.

Sidelined him

Which part of
-chairing the finance group and being a key part of policy formulating meetings and OECD conferences
-offering Lee a front bench position

amounts to sidelining? Lee felt entitled to a higher position without learning the ropes of working in politics, that was his downfall, not Fine Gael.

Ally Dick

My brother in law has a degree in economics, yet I don't hear anyone demanding that he be brought in to save the country. Really, I never bought that stuff where Lee was the new messiah of finance who was going to fix the country up. It was all political spin. Turns out Glee hasn't even got a backbone or a pair of balls ! He would have sh!t his pants if he was given a big role, if you ask me

djpbarry

limklad wrote: »

George Lee thought that Fine Gael went after George Lee for his expertise...

Fixed your post.

The Muppet

What a cock up by FG, Only they could turn the huge bonus of getting Lee on board into such a catastrophy. FF must be in convultions.

Well played Enda.

onq

peasant wrote: »

So you're saying it's a good thing that traditionally Irish ministers haven't a clue of their portfolio?(snip)

Perhaps he was just telling it like it is? Fact of life. Ask Bat O'Keefe what he knows of the pilars of knowledge and how they support the socio-economic demographics of the middle classes and watch him glaze over...

ONQ.

BeeDI

The irony of it all :cool:

Posterboy McWilliams, shown up for what he really is. Just a shallow, self serving, pompous little economics commentator. When it came down to basic good judgement, he proved himself to be a total twat, in the way he handled the Lenihan at his house story. Just imagine having such a brat in charge of or having any serious input into running a soverign government :eek:

Ditto Mr Lee :pac::pac:

The old saying comes to mind "hurlers on the ditch, know the game far better than players on the pitch"!!.

Give me Lenny any day :P

onq

The Muppet wrote: »

What a cock up by FG, Only they could turn the huge bonus of getting Lee on board into such a catastrophy. FF must be in convultions.

Well played Enda.

I've been thinking of headlines.

"Made blue by the blueshirts".

"Lee bursts the party, not the banks".

"Vincent Brown - Lee-thal Weapon".

And so on.

Ho hum.

ONQ.

Drumpot

Its funny watch all the F.G'ers squirm for excuses . . Im not associated with any party (and proud to say so) . .

Ive been saying for ages that we deserve not just a better government but also a better opposition . .

This just shows that the same kind of party politics that we despise is not limited to FF . .

FG are simply a different party with the same principles. Im not advocating anybody to vote for FF . . I'm asking people to vote and demand morally sound people who are more interested in the good of the country as opposed to their own political career . .

I genuinley believe most of what Lee said, not because I know or support him, but because everything he "suggests" is believable.

If Enda Kenny was putting his party first (let alone the country) he would of stepped down after the last elections. With the culture in the Dail he would be mad to.

The voters arent interested in getting things cleaned up in the dail or the country . . Once its not FF, most people will be satisfied. . We got our head with JOD (who didnt even have to resign), so alls well in Irish Politics . .

What a fickle nation we truly are . .

I see some people mention the phrase "learning the ropes in politics" which is contradictory when they might discuss changes they wish to see in politics. . . . . Another morally bankrupt politician in the mould of the current bunch of "X" is exactly what the country doesnt need. . . We need change and people with new idea's. Moulding him into the current culture that exists is not a way to do it .

Rb

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Sidelined him

Which part of
-chairing the finance group and being a key part of policy formulating meetings and OECD conferences
-offering Lee a front bench position

amounts to sidelining? Lee felt entitled to a higher position without learning the ropes of working in politics, that was his downfall, not Fine Gael.

Spot on. A combination of this, and an expectancy that a G.E was just around the corner, must have lead to a very disappointing experience when he found himself to be merely another part of the opposition party.

This is going to have horrible consequences though, none of which George will have to face of course. Instead, it will be the same people who spent their free time after working all day who bear the brunt of it at the doorsteps when out campaigning in the future.

sparkling sea

George Lee has been around long enough to know exactly what he was getting into. The more I think about it the more it is annoying me. I have voted for all parties in the past (except SF who are or course NI party and not a R of I party) but there is no way in the world I would consider voting for FF at the moment and I really think they could do with a break as ultimate power destroys and boy have they destroyed.

But I don't really understand how people can say George Lee has done the right thing as his first duty was surely to represent his constituents for the period of time that he promised too. The electorate give him their vote, he of all people should know what an honour this is but it appears that it doesn't matter to him.

Are all politicans only interested in the party, are any really interested in the people. George if your reading I am very disappointed, even if you left the party you should have served the term as you promised. You've thrown the baby out with the bath water.

Tommy Bateman

And another thing, I hope that George Lee fella isn't getting his hopes up of getting into FF, sure we wouldn't have a celebrity in charge of the finances. Lenny, tough talking and plain speakng is the man for us, therefore for the country.

BeeDI

With every passing day, the chances of the blueshirts displacing the soldiers of destiny in government at next election are getting ever so slightly slimmer.
With every passing day, the power and influence of the beards, is waning by the minute. The so called public service work to rule is going nowhere fast.

Lenny will be the next Taoiseach, with his health allowing him.

Glee, Enda Kenny, Jack O Connor, David Begg, and all the other lesser beards, will be consigned to the foot notes of history.

B

jmayo

peasant wrote: »

That looks exactly like the reference my ex boss wrote me after I told him where exactly to shove his f.... job and his corrupt company

I didn't know you worked for clowen :eek:
Oh what am I saying, none of his gang ever resign. :rolleyes:

kraggy wrote: »

Ridiculous post.

Whatever about who got us in to this mess, Brian Lenihan is doing a good job at sorting out the mess he inherited.

Tell us, what would Labour or FG do to get us out? There's damn all scope for movement when you have almost half a million on the Live Register and tax revenue is going down like a girl from Essex.

Yeah I do appreciate his idea of me helping contribute 11 billion in recapitalisation to the banks, 4 odd billion ?? of it going to Anglo.
That would be a bank whose branches are all over ???, oh yeah all over St Stephen's Green and new HQ would be down in the Dublin Docklands coutesy of a couple of their directors. :rolleyes:
As yet I haven't heard of any massive use of the recapitalisation for any lending to productive industry, nevermind the banks have given him the bird when he asked they listen to him about getting in outside executives.

Also must thank him personnally for making sure I (and probably my kids) will contribute towards accepting 13 billion of now worthless US property loans along with all the other sh**e that NAMA will inherit.
And wait for it, 10 billion of those US loans are coutesy of Anglo :rolleyes:
What a surprise.

Hell wait a few months and I can probably thank him for making me contribute to the mortgage of a defaulter I know who used his mortgage to buy a boat, a sportscar and a big jeep.

Fecks sake I would hate to see how much it would be costing me if lenny was'nt doing a great job :rolleyes:

storybud1

does this mean that the recession will never end

gandalf

Rb wrote: »

This is going to have horrible consequences though, none of which George will have to face of course. Instead, it will be the same people who spent their free time after working all day who bear the brunt of it at the doorsteps when out campaigning in the future.

This may have the opposite effect to be honest. It may give some within FG the backbone and incentive to oust Enda as leader. If that happens they may even be in the position to have the opportunity to attempt to win an overall majority at the next election given the unpopularity of FF and their lapdogs Greena Fail. Thats of course if they are decisive and quick about the push.

Laminations

Drumpot wrote: »

Its funny watch all the F.G'ers squirm for excuses . . Im not associated with any party (and proud to say so) . .

Ive been saying for ages that we deserve not just a better government but also a better opposition . .

This just shows that the same kind of party politics that we despise is not limited to FF . .

FG are simply a different party with the same principles. Im not advocating anybody to vote for FF . . I'm asking people to vote and demand morally sound people who are more interested in the good of the country as opposed to their own political career . .

I genuinley believe most of what Lee said, not because I know or support him, but because everything he "suggests" is believable.

If Enda Kenny was putting his party first (let alone the country) he would of stepped down after the last elections. With the culture in the Dail he would be mad to.

The voters arent interested in getting things cleaned up in the dail or the country . . Once its not FF, most people will be satisfied. . We got our head with JOD (who didnt even have to resign), so alls well in Irish Politics . .

What a fickle nation we truly are . .

I am also not a member of any party. And I agree with you that we need better standards from our public representatives. But all this story shows is that George Lee and politics didnt suit each other. I'd love to enter politics if I didnt hate it all so much. Its a slow working frustrating business. This doesn't reflect badly on FG but politics as a whole.

Also how do you suggest we do the highlighted bit in your post? to whom do we make these demands? what internet site do we order in these 'new' politians from? You are more idealist than realist, unfortunately for FG so too was George Lee. I do think it would benefit the party for Enda to go as leader.

And most people aren't satisfied 'once its not FF', but most people realise its a progressive step for the better. A politician like any person will not improve unless they are made very aware that what they have done is not at all acceptable.

Drumpot

To anybody who voted for Lee or who feel he has let down the electorate . .

Why did you vote for him ? Was he not voted in to make changes ? Was there not excitement because the belief was that we had somebody who could intelligently help the country progress in a time of crisis ?

This talk of "learning the ropes" is a lame attempt for FG to try and get some credibility out of a shocking situation that leaves them looking no less inept then the shower in power at the moment . . Who voted in GL so he could be moulded into the kind of politicians we have in their at the moment ?

Its just really sad that society constantly points fingers of blame at individuals instead of looking at the root cause of something . .

It appears that FG wanted him as a PR clown to enhance the credibility of other members, but they didnt want to use his professional expertise as they had their own idea's. .

To me that sums it up in a nutshell . .

BeeDI

jmayo wrote: »

I didn't know you worked for clowen :eek:
Oh what am I saying, none of his gang ever resign. :rolleyes:



Yeah I do appreciate his idea of me helping contribute 11 billion in recapitalisation to the banks, 4 odd billion ?? of it going to Anglo.
That would be a bank whose branches are all over ???, oh yeah all over St Stephen's Green and new HQ would be down in the Dublin Docklands coutesy of a couple of their directors. :rolleyes:
As yet I haven't heard of any massive use of the recapitalisation for any lending to productive industry, nevermind the banks have given him the bird when he asked they listen to him about getting in outside executives.

Also must thank him personnally for making sure I (and probably my kids) will contribute towards accepting 13 billion of now worthless US property loans along with all the other sh**e that NAMA will inherit.
And wait for it, 10 billion of those US loans are coutesy of Anglo :rolleyes:
What a surprise.

Hell wait a few months and I can probably thank him for making me contribute to the mortgage of a defaulter I know who used his mortgage
to buy a boat, a sportscar and a big jeep.

Get over it :cool: No possible solution to the mess we are in is without pain, to you, me and every other citizen of the country, of this generation and probably the next one.
If you believe the "painless solution" spin from Gilmore, Kenny, the Shinners, McWilliams, Glee, and a few more idiots, you are in dreamland.

B

Drumpot

Laminations wrote: »

I am also not a member of any party. And I agree with you that we need better standards from our public representatives. But all this story shows is that George Lee and politics didnt suit each other. I'd love to enter politics if I didnt hate it all so much. Its a slow working frustrating business. This doesn't reflect badly on FG but politics as a whole.

Also how do you suggest we do the highlighted bit in your post? to whom do we make these demands? what internet site do we order in these 'new' politians from? You are more idealist than realist, unfortunately for FG so too was George Lee. I do think it would benefit the party for Enda to go as leader.

And most people aren't satisfied 'once its not FF', but most people realise its a progressive step for the better. A politician like any person will not improve unless they are made very aware that what they have done is not at all acceptable.

I dont think its idealist for an electorate to demand moral accountability and moral decision making from its politicians. It works in scandanavian countries but the differance is that its important to the voters (that they have people in office with integrity and transparancy) . .

People have forgotten that they hold the key to the throne . . If people wanted JOD's head on a plate they would of gotten it had they taken the streets. If we wanted T.D.'s on 50k a year, we could get it if we took the streets. . The french are not afraid to tell their government what they want . . The Irish go onto websites, have a moan and forget about it around election time . .

We need to change our attitudes to politics if we want politics to change . .

Just a quick question . How many people that you happen to be talking to have said something on the lines of "the sooner FF are out the better" ? I know I have met few who have said otherwise . . Which again asks the question, are we accepting second best at the expense of real reform . . If there is one thing politicians normally do well, its jump on nationwide opinions . .

Laminations

Him now resigning is more an indictment of politics rather than party. If you argue that G Lee leaving FG is terrible for the party then him joining in the first place must have been even more terrible for FF as he didnt even see them as fit to have him as a member

The fact still remains that George Lee, who is now being hailed as the best economic expert around chose FG over FF.

Laminations

Drumpot wrote: »

I dont think its idealist for an electorate to demand moral accountability and moral decision making from its politicians. It works in scandanavian countries but the differance is that its important to the voters (that they have people with integrity and transparancy) . .

People have forgotten that they hold the key to the throne . . If people wanted JOD's head on a plate they would of gotten it had they taken the streets. If we wanted T.D.'s on 50k a year, we could get it if we took the streets. . The french are not afraid to tell their government what they want . . The Irish go onto websites, have a moan and forget about it around election time . .

We need to change our attitudes to politics if we want politics to change . .

Just a quick question . How many people that you happen to be talking to have said something on the lines of "the sooner FF are out the better" ? I know I have met few who have said otherwise . . Which again asks the question, are we accepting second best at the expense of real reform . . If there is one thing politicians normally do well, its jump on nationwide opinions . .

On this front, I completely agree. But protesting can never result in magical integrity increases among members of the Dail. That comes at election time (by voting for the party with most integrity...even if its still far less integrity than you'd like to see). This leaves the other parties having to up their game in the integrity stakes.