George Lee resigns from Fine Gael and Dail!!!

Bill2673

"

quad_red wrote: »

I believe Lee stated (more than once) that he wasn't simply seeking a ministry."


I hate getting bogged down in debates on forums, so lets try to keep this pleasant.

My point is simple: that he shouldn't expect to get a ministry so quickly (even though he was offerred one)

Is your point that
(i) ...and even at that, he wasn't simply looking for a ministry (as you've written), i.e. he was looking for more than just that?
or
(ii) he wasn't looking for a ministry he was looking for something else....

drunken_munky52

George, you were too honest for politics.

Politicians aren't put there to change things... they are put there to keep thing the way they are.

I salute for your best efforts and give my two fingers to the political establishment.

Now that ordinary peoples political trump card has failed, the onus is on citizens to rise up and revolt against this banana state once and for all. It needs to be toppled from the inside out, starting with the guards and the army. Then the Dail needs to be flushed for the stinking toilet bowl it is and replaced with real brains like lee, engineers, economists and so forth.

(this isn't a rant by the way, george had this view in mind, but he was just one man... we need to support people like him more)

gandalf

Bill2673 wrote: »

PS shame on the people of south dublin for giving him such a mandate in the first place.

Why its not their fault that George didn't have the ability/stamina/smarts/whatever to be able to carry out the duties of a TD. Its not their fault that the so-called Golden Boy was left to fend for himself within FG after Kenny got his 15 minutes of glory last May.

I actually congratulate the people of South Dublin, they took a chance for change and ok the gamble didn't pay off this time. But they took a chance and thats what we need in this country going forward.

Now its up to the members of FG to take a chance and change leadership to bring them to the next level.

K-9

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

He's a disgrace, and obviously very naive too. He's whingin that kenny didn't offer him the opportunity to fix the economy which might, just might, have something to do with the fact that he's in opposition?!! :rolleyes:

The only hope he would ever have of fixing the country would be as a minister in government, which he was very likely to be in a few years time. He was never going to be able to change things in just 9 months. I feel sorry for his constituents really. He never seemed to have any policies that were going to improve south dublin people's day-to-day living and was elected solely as an economic messiah. Basically I don't think he was cut out for politics at all. A job such as economic advisor to the government or something like that would have been more suitable for him, but would have given him no power. But maybe thats the problem all along - not getting enough power???

Have to agree with this, particularly the opposition part. From his interviews he appeared to be waiting for FG to call him on policy as some kind of Messiah!

jmayo

peasant wrote: »

Not knowing the man, I would suspect that his intentions were to actually fight the flames while Rome was burning and not just fiddle until there's only ashes in 2012

Well then why not join ff or the greens ?
He was in opposition party so he can't implement any policies.
He was used by FG to drum up support go around the country and was put in charge of a committee to comeup with ideas policies etc.
He appears he complained he was away from his family, didn't like the hours, and this was from a guy who was in one of nearest constituencies to the Dáil.

It appears he never even called a committee meeting ?
Did he expect Richard Bruton, former minister, deputy leader, 8 years finance spokesman to come running to him, Georgie Lee famous commentator beloved of the nation now that he has been proven right, formerly labelled a crank 5 years ago ?

Mickey Pearce wrote: »

...........and aren't the "media" supposed to keep their political persuasions to themselves??? Something that Mr Lee has failed miserably at, by joining FG.

MUPPET.

Ever watch the late late show lately ?

Joey the lips wrote: »

Not at all. He retired on principle and is now out of work. Cannot work for RTE and gave up his seat.

The wrong politician left

Ehhh I had actually thought fair f***s he is giving up cushy RTE job to stand for election.
He said he gave up his job but he didn't really, did he ?
He took leave of absense and he knew that if he came back in a year RTE (like other public sector entities) have to give him a job.
Principle me ar**.

He took a punt didn't like it and wants to go back to the way things were.

He wanted to play the game his way and when they didn't he ran home crying.
Except he didn't go straight home, but stopped off at every media outlet on the way home to mouth off about the bad boys in FG who wouldn't let him play. :rolleyes:

bog master wrote: »

Just want to add in my tuppence worth and suppose its in support of G Lee.

First of all, I hope all will acknowledge he has a degree in Economics and correctly forecast the situation where are now in.

He left a well paid job in RTE, to go into politics to try to right some of the wrongs in current major political party thinking. Fine Gael seemed to court him, and what an asset he could have been, with his expertise and more importantly, he seems or seemed to have the trust of the public.

Thinking about this today, may I offer an analogy, in sporting terms.

GAA-Mickey Harte moves into your parish, and offers his services to the local GAA club. Do you have him collecting money at the gate or do ask his input into the training/coaching of the club team?

Bring in Trappatoni to the local soccer club or Declan Kidney to the Ruggers?

Yes, they may have not served their time in the local club, but their knowledge and expertise far outweighs their length of service in their local club or Dail!

I fully support the man in his decision!

BS.
He wasn't a Mickey Harte, Declan Kidney or a Trappatoni.
He was a f***ing Eamon Dunphy, he was a commentator, a journalist.
He was never a player or manager, but a commentator.

The only football manager I would eqaute him to his Roy Keane.
(BTW Keane was brilliant footballer but has been proven to be cr** manager)
He came with a big fanfare, sulked when didn't get his way and walked out.
Of course becuase he is famous it is someone elses fault for not recognising his talent and bending over backwards to accommodate him.


And just because he did his fecking job and told us the truth about how the economy was a crock of sh** that would end in tears he is some fecking brilliant economist.
So did Alan Aherne (who now works for Dept of Finance), so did Morgan Kelly.
Of course they wouldn't be as famous because they weren't on the 61news everynight.

BTW FG already have an economist in charge of their finance portfolio.
He is a guy that has been pulling away for years highlighting some of the cr** that ff budgets have contained.
Shoudl he have moved over becuase after all George was more famous and had the trust of the public.
This would be some of the same public who were labelling him a whinger and pessimist a few years ago. :rolleyes:

The more I read these threads I despair that so many people are taking this to hysteria levels.

A former (sorry that should read leave of absense) RTE hack runs for office and due to fact he had become a celebrity because he did his bloody job, spoke the truth about what a crock of sh** the economy and Irish banks really were (as lots of us did although he did on the telly), thus topped the poll when he ran for election.
Then when it appears he wasn't appreciated enough for his celebrity, sorry credentials in spotting a crock of sh** when it was a corck of ****, didn't get his way so he throws a tantrum and storms off home.

Then we have wailing on the airwaves, on internet forums and in the press about how bad Enda Kenny, the begruding FGers and God knows who else didn't recognise how brilliant a man George was (accordinng to himself and the ones who thought he was the messiah) and they are awful for not allowing him run the show.

In the last couple of weeks another great RTE shedder of light in dark places, another great RTE celebrity jorunalist, Charlie Bird, has been exposed through his own diary of an eejit in Washinton (or whatever it's called) as a bit of a pain in the ar**.
Maybe in RTE it isn't just the likes of ryan, kenny (pat that is) and tubridy that are arrogant twats with big opinions of their own capabilities ?

quad_red

Bill2673 wrote: »

" QUOTE=quad_red;64385639]I believe Lee stated (more than once) that he wasn't simply seeking a ministry."

I hate getting bogged down in debates on forums, so lets try to keep this pleasant.

I wasn't being unpleasant. I was simply pointing out that Lee himself said that he neither wanted nor expected a ministerial position.

Bill2673 wrote: »

My point is simple: that he shouldn't expect to get a ministry so quickly (even though he was offerred one)

He didn't expect a ministry. He seemed to say that pretty clearly.

Bill2673 wrote: »

Is your point that
(i) ...and even at that, he wasn't simply looking for a ministry (as you've written), i.e. he was looking for more than just that?
or
(ii) he wasn't looking for a ministry he was looking for something else....

I'm not really sure what you mean. From listening to what he said, I got the impression that he neither expected nor asked for a ministry. He wanted input. When he went to Kenny last week and was offered a ministry, he felt that still would not address the fundamental lack of input he was having/would have in FG economic policy.

jmayo

quad_red wrote: »

I wasn't being unpleasant. I was simply pointing out that Lee himself said that he neither wanted nor expected a ministerial position.



He didn't expect a ministry. He seemed to say that pretty clearly.



I'm not really sure what you mean. From listening to what he said, I got the impression that he neither expected nor asked for a ministry. He wanted input. When he went to Kenny last week and was offered a ministry, he felt that still would not address the fundamental lack of input he was having/would have in FG economic policy.

I think the problem was George started believing the hype about himself.
Party members are coming out and saying that he never came up with any policy documents, he never approached them, he never instigated anything.

It was interesting the interview that Dr James Reilly gave this morning.
Here is a guy that represented the doctors in discussing implementation of medical card rollout for over 70s with HSE and Dept of Health.
BTW he got damm good deal for doctors.

He stated that Kenny never promised him anything when he was approached to run for FG.
He did become health spokesman after 4 months because as he said himself he bugged people, he chased them, he bent ears etc.

George appears to have just sat there and expected everything to revolve around him.

Why didn't he bug the sh** out of Richard Bruton or did he think deputy head of the party, finance spokesperson for 8 years, should be running after him.

I think this whole saga just goes to should how celebrity culture and tangling with it can backfire big time.
George was/is a celebrity economic correspondent and was seen by some as some messiah that could solve all the issues.
IMHO the problem is too many people believed this, including George himself.

Kenny's problem was he thought he could use this celebrity to garner votes and he did grab votes in a blaze of publicity.
Sadly and naively he didn't figure that sometimes using celebrities bites you in the ar** when they throw a hissyfit. :rolleyes:

I have lost respect for Lee much like I lost respect for Eddie Hobbs when it transpired he was floggin overpriced property in Cape Verde for his relative or much like I lost respect for Alan Aherne when he went back on his ideas when he joined Dept of Finance.

mrbig

BS.
He wasn't a Mickey Harte, Declan Kidney or a Trappatoni.
He was a f***ing Eamon Dunphy, he was a commentator, a journalist.
He was never a player or manager, but a commentator.

George Lee was writing a book on economics before the credit crunch, his book was so irrelevent and far from how the collapse came about he had to abandon it and hand back the fee to the publisher.
In case there is any doubt not alone is he not the Trappatoni of economics he has the same standing as a journalist as Twink.

Btw if he felt so strongly about the need for action why did he not make submissions with some of his (in his own mind ) great ideas, why was he not pestering Richard Bruton night and day with emails about his great ideas,
No he sat and sulked and waited for his genius to be recognised after all "Fine Gael came looking for him" after sulking for eight months he realised they didnt really think he was a genius so he left.

:D

Bill2673

Quad Red...... I didn't mean to imply that you were being unpleasant, my apologies for coming across that way. Sorry for being flippant......I meant more that forum debates can often descend into unpleasant squabbles, and I prefer to avoid that.

Second: Point taken. My understanding was that he had asked for (or expected) a ministry, and was miffed when he wasn't offerred one. I know he mentioned 'input' in his statement, but I assumed that he had expected a ministry also.

peasant

My take on all this is that George Lee never actually wanted to be a politician ...he wanted to be a revolutionary.

Remember back to early/middle of last year?

FF were sitting there like hypnotised rabbits staring at the lights, not knowing what to do. The greens were looking extremely wobbly and quite a few people expected them to walk.
Everybody was just waiting for the opposition to light the fuse and blow up this governement and prevent them from doing even further damage.

That's where celebrity George would have fitted in perfectly. The only issue of the day was "the economy, stupid" and he was THE person to deal with it.

Two or three days after him being elected, FG should have rolled him out in a shoulder lock with Bruton, hogging every dail debate, every minute of available airtime, the two of them in tandem hammering the governement over its failures and at the same time proposing a way forward in clear George Lee speak, making the people understand that FF needed to go and that FG was the way forward.

I firmly believe they could have pulled it off and could have swung enough greens and FF backbenchers to bring the governement down. (and I would think that GL believed this too)
All they needed to do was to create a bit of a bow wave with George as the galleon figure.

Instead everything just fizzled out in the usual inertia of "politics"

Bill2673

To an extent this story reflects a lot that is wrong with irish journalism, too focussed on personalities. The George Lee story is a relatively important, but doens't warrant the media barrage it has received. Ditto the analysis of the banking collapse was all Fingers Fingleton and seanie fitz, and very little on what actually happened.

There is a big political story in Ireland right now. That is: there is a fiscal crisis across the weaker EU states at present: govt spreads in Greece have widened to the point where it is no longer in a position to borrow, and the country has begun a firesale of national assets; Spain and Portugal are not much better. Were it not for the recent budget and the credibility this brought the Irish economy, we would be so far up the creek here it would be game over. Instead, what Brian Lenihan has done (and I would distiguish here btn Lenihan and Fianna Fail, as i don't think FF would have done it without him) has brought Ireland back from the abyss, we have avoided the national bankruptcies that Greece and Portugal right now are now facing. This the big political story in the past few weeks, not bloody George Lee. Of course the newspapers have missed it.

jmayo

peasant wrote: »

My take on all this is that George Lee never actually wanted to be a politician ...he wanted to be a revolutionary.

Remember back to early/middle of last year?

FF were sitting there like hypnotised rabbits staring at the lights, not knowing what to do. The greens were looking extremely wobbly and quite a few people expected them to walk.
Everybody was just waiting for the opposition to light the fuse and blow up this governement and prevent them from doing even further damage.

That's where celebrity George would have fitted in perfectly. The only issue of the day was "the economy, stupid" and he was THE person to deal with it.

Two or three days after him being elected, FG should have rolled him out in a shoulder lock with Bruton, hogging every dail debate, every minute of available airtime, the two of them in tandem hammering the governement over its failures and at the same time proposing a way forward in clear George Lee speak, making the people understand that FF needed to go and that FG was the way forward.

I firmly believe they could have pulled it off and could have swung enough greens and FF backbenchers to bring the governement down. (and I would think that GL believed this too)
All they needed to do was to create a bit of a bow wave with George as the galleon figur.

Instead everything just fizzled out in the usual inertia of "politics"

Big problem with your lovely dream. :rolleyes:
You aren't going to get the greens to dump the government because they know first thing opposition (all of them) will demand is election menaing the end of the greens.
Even bigger problem with your synopsis is your idea of swinging ff backbenchers.
Oh some of them will sound off and resign the whip, but once a ffer always a ffer I believe.
Look at the guys in Sligo making big song and dance about Sligo hospital issue and resigning the whip, but check how they have voted in every confidence motion.
Ditto for mr joe behan.

So this grand idea that backbenchers and greens is just wishful thinking sadly.

IrishKestrel

George Lee:
Had great aspirations, but has proven to have been EXTREMELY naive. Despite this, he still had the 'liathroidi' to realise his mistake and admit it. Would have preferred if
a) he stayed in FG and became a lot more vocal until they listened or took the party whip off him
b) he stayed as an independent and became more vocal.
But - I, reluctantly, respect his decision.

What I don't respect is his terrible handling of the media circus (an area where he IS supposed to be an expert). OUCH! Car Crash Television.

Richard Bruton v Enda Kenny
Enda MUST have oversold this to GL. More importantly, he must NOT have consulted with RB before approaching GL, or alternatively never advised RB as to the 'sales pitch'.

RB seems to have been seriously 'pis*ed' at the recruitment of GL - an inferior economist to himself, with no political experience. When GL didn't PUSH his ideas, RB correctly got on with doing his job.

This makes EK look like an even more incompetent leader. Not only did he oversell, fail to deliver, fail to manage his new 'celebrity' recruit - but he alienated his #2.

RB for leader, Leo V for Finance Spokesman. Lucinda for promotion. Looking forward to the Party Convention in Killarney in April!!!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

peasant

jmayo wrote: »

So this grand idea that backbenchers and greens is just wishful thinking sadly.

Remember all the talk about a "national governement"?
Back then it seemed just about possible. Phantastical, but possible.

Not anymore.

Bill2673

IrishKestrel wrote: »

George Lee:
Had great aspirations, but has proven to have been EXTREMELY naive. Despite this, he still had the 'liathroidi' to realise his mistake and admit it.

Irish Kestrel......don't know if I would put it down to liathroidi....as an earlier post mentioned, he has a 12 month job guarantee with RTE that runs out in May.

...I don't know if this is true, just going on what the earlier post said....but if it is true, then you'd wonder why he felt the need to seek a job guarantee from RTE in the first place.

Bill2673

peasant wrote: »

.

That's where celebrity George would have fitted in perfectly. The only issue of the day was "the economy, stupid" and he was THE person to deal with it.
"

peasant, can I ask why you say he was THE person to deal with it? Or was it a richly ironic comment?

Shayman

Did Gift Grub do anything on him today? There's nothing up on the Today FM site yet but they have a hilarious piss take on Charlie Bird singing "When I think about me I touch myself!"

Dempo1

Yes its true, when he went for election he was clever enough to get leave of absence from RTE which expired in May (Confirmed by himself in various interviews), i think this is the norm however but the timing for his resignation and subsequent option to return to RTE does raise some questions not least was his heart in Politics at all. I really to think his credibility is ruined in relation to doing any meaningful job at RTE, whether it be economics or anything of a political nature, i can just see politicians smirking at him went attempting to get interviews or serious comment. As i stated, perhaps he could take that whining Buffoon Charlie Birds Job in Washington or better still spend some time tutoring Sean Whelan who has been a disastrous replacement in economics at RTE

simonj

Will this be the end a' Kenny?:rolleyes:

peasant

Bill2673 wrote: »

peasant, can I ask why you say he was THE person to deal with it? Or was it a richly ironic comment?

Nope, not ironic at all.

Politics (at least in its public frontage) is a lot about image, momentum, credibility, seizing the moment and reading the mood of the public.

GL had just been proven right. Remember how everyone laughed at him during the boom. How they called him George Glee for always predicting everything to go horribly wrong?

Well, everything DID go horribly wrong and in the public perception GL was about the only one who had seen it coming and who seemed to be coherent in summarising what had happend and what could possibly be done about it.

There may have been better qualified/more experienced politicians to handle the situation ...but in the eyes of the public GL was the messiah. He was fresh yet trustworthy, knowledgeable yet perfectly understandable.

Anywhere Enda Kenny or Bruton appeared in the public eye, GL should have been there by their side, spouting marketable sound bites, spreading hope, boosting the FG image.

jmayo

peasant wrote: »

Remember all the talk about a "national governement"?
Back then it seemed just about possible. Phantastical, but possible.

Not anymore.

A naitonal government was pie in the sky floated by a few hacks in the media.
There was never going to be a national government.
For a start biffo nor his party would ever accept or work with FG, and I don't FG would on the other side.

Besides why should they take a couple of ministries and bail out a completly inept primary government party?

It would be political suicide, they probably would not get their own policies implemented and they would probably be hung out to dry by ff as is their norm.

For God's sake if a highly unpopular government falls first thing that happens is opposition would seek election to strenghten their position rather than go in and prop up the government parties. :rolleyes:

gandalf

Dempo1 wrote: »

I really to think his credibility is ruined in relation to doing any meaningful job at RTE, whether it be economics or anything of a political nature, i can just see politicians smirking at him went attempting to get interviews or serious comment.

There is no way he will be let near domestic politics or economics in the near or medium future. I actually do not see a job for him back in RTE and if he is taken back then that is an example of what is wrong with the Public Service/Semi State type jobs.

This is not an administration job or a teacher its a job that has a lot of bearing on public opinion and as such has to have the appearance of no bias. If he does go back to the same position, if he goes heavy on the current Government its because he is ex-FG. If he goes in hard against FG then its a case of bitterness against them.

He really has shot himself in both feet with his actions yesterday.

Dempo1

Really hard to say, Kenny seems to be Honorable and decent Man but being objective he seems to lack the Balls for the Job. This said, i believe George Lee's selfish, bizarre and self serving decision should not be the reason for Kenny's downfall, i believe FG members will see his actions for what they are. There is no doubt FG do appear to be lacking leadership but then again i feel FG leaders generally have lacked presence, the organization does not run like the Autocratic FF and perhaps this is a good thing.

Dempo1

Sorry, header should have been George Lee, not east end hotel (another amusing forum

redmca2

George Lee's stated priority in entering the Dáil was to "make a contribution / difference" in view of the appalling economic crisis facing our country.
It obviously escaped his notice that FG are in opposition and are likely to remain so for another 2 years, so even if he became leader of the party his influence to make that contribution would have been insignificant until the next general election. Surely he didn't believe that by joining a party that might get power in 2012 was going to make a contribution to solving the country's ills.
As an intelligent person he must have realised that the influence of the opposition in Dáil Eireann ranks a fair distance below the unelected media, the so-called social partners, and the financial institutions. His influence in his previous job (possibly one he can't now realistically return to) was far greater than any opposition TD.
His departure will only inhibit like-minded intelligent citizens from considering putting themselves forward for elective office. While politicians are regularly vilified as a class, they are a necessary part of democratic process, and we need more George Lees in the Dail, not less.
As Churchill (I think) once said, democracy is not necessarily a perfect system until one considers the alternatives .......

peasant

jmayo wrote: »

A naitonal government was pie in the sky floated by a few hacks in the media.

All I'm saying is that at the time the nation was crying out for "somebody to do something".

The usual lethargy was suspended for a while, everybody was waiting eagerly for someone to take action and all sorts of scenarios (including a national governement) seemed possible. At least they were imaginable at the time.

I think GL wanted to be "somebody to do something" ...the people certainly thought him capable of it ...and he naively went into the bosom of FG, thinking that they would be his willing and supporting platform for immediate action.

Yeah well ...momentum lost, aspirations broken, back to the old lethargy.

Shayman

simonj wrote: »

Will this be the end a' Kenny?:rolleyes:

Why? Is he gettin Pat Kenny's job? I heard he was going to be doin sports...

richb6987

I have read some of the replies but not all so I apologise if I repeat some sentimets already stated. I just want to make the point that as someone who gave Lee a mandate to represent me and my family I am bitterly disappointed in his selfish naive stance on his resignation and his downright disrespect shown to all who voted for him.

Lee resigned because he was not been heard. Boo Hoo. He was in politics a wet week and expected to lean the ropes and be pushed to the forefront of policy making. He felt that he didn't even need a front bench position but wanted to be heard anyway. A wet week in the Dail and he resigns for what I feel are reasons that showed a complete lack of understanding of politics and a massive show of disrespect for those who elected him. I heard him state that he had no influence on FG policy. Rightly so. How can he when he has done nothing. He wanted to shake up the system so why didnt he. If he had published papers outlining his vision for economic recovery and not whispered in corridors as he said he did he may have had been given some credence. He wasn't even trying to whisper in the right ears according to himself. In his 19 weeks of work in the Dail I never heard one piece of constructive rhetoric that would give me hope in him as a politician or as a front bench policy maker. Note teh words policy maker. He never offered us anything but general guf that I learnt in Economics many years ago.

In adition to these failings as a politician and in my opinion a man of integrity he has the Gaul to turn down a position offered whereby he would have had a greater say. Regardless of how you feel about Kenny, he did make an offer to lee (for whatever political motivations (I dont care)) Lee turned the offer down leaving his constituents and I would hope the country wondering why did he enter politics at all. It wasn't to serve and that is proven by his resignation.

I have no regrets by saying that in my opinion he is a spineless, self obsessed, egotistical man, empty of any substance and should be vilified for his lack of stamina and dedication to his constituants. If he gets a job in RTE it should be co hosting the DEN. He has no right to ever speak about policy of Government when he cant even stick out 19 weeks of work..

Sorry for my Tirade but I see no defence for the man. He will be used to attack FG, the system et cetera. Yes there are problems but his resignation did nothing at all to resolve these or further highlight failings that were already known by us all. He has let me down by not having the balls to stand up, make himself be heard and do something constructive.

Again sorry for the rant but I offer no apologies for the:mad: sentiment expressed.


Rich B

Happyman42

richb6987

HappyMan I love it. Can I send it on

Happyman42

yep:D

simonj

Shayman wrote: »

Why? Is he gettin Pat Kenny's job? I heard he was going to be doin sports...

Jesus - never thought of that - be afraid, be very afraid

jmayo

peasant wrote: »

All I'm saying is that at the time the nation was crying out for "somebody to do something".

The usual lethargy was suspended for a while, everybody was waiting eagerly for someone to take action and all sorts of scenarios (including a national governement) seemed possible. At least they were imaginable at the time.

I think GL wanted to be "somebody to do something" ...the people certainly thought him capable of it ...and he naively went into the bosom of FG, thinking that they would be his willing and supporting platform for immediate action.

Yeah well ...momentum lost, aspirations broken, back to the old lethargy.

What lead a coup ?
We don't do revolutions and when there were protests it was by vested interest groups looking after their own interests in contrast to the country's.

What immediate action, apart from maybe staging walkout, whihc have ever one on complaining they were walking away from the problems.

Shayman wrote: »

Why? Is he gettin Pat Kenny's job? I heard he was going to be doin sports...

Can't wait to see him interview that other famous quitter Roy Keane.

If only the ****er would quit Ipswich Town and stop imposing his brilliant man management skills on the club :mad:

Ally Dick

peasant wrote: »

Anywhere Enda Kenny or Bruton appeared in the public eye, GL should have been there by their side, spouting marketable sound bites, spreading hope, boosting the FG image.

This is what FG wanted to use him for and what he objected to. He didn't seem to understand that he was the "celebrity" poster boy of FG and that he was there for photo opportunities and to boost the FG ratings. He wanted to be in the background working on economic policy. Sorry Glee, was never going to work like that.

richb6987

Ally Dick wrote: »

This is what FG wanted to use him for and what he objected to. He didn't seem to understand that he was the "celebrity" poster boy of FG and that he was there for photo opportunities and to boost the FG ratings. He wanted to be in the background working on economic policy. Sorry Glee, was never going to work like that.

If he wanted to be in the background making policy then why didn't he publish something worthwhile. Yes he was spouted as the poster boy but I think there was a long term view to him been given a position of influence. At least that's what all FG pundits have been saying for months. He left too early. He deserved nothing at the moment but could have earned it by teh next election. If he had stuck it out and done what he set out to do than I might have had some respect for teh man. Read my post above. I have none now.

Lame Lantern

Regarding the future of Kenny's leadership, if Richard Bruton has a hand to show now is the time. However, Bruton's profile has been eclipsed by Kenny's for months now in contrast to other political figures with designs on party leaderships so I doubt he's really been whipping votes behind the scenes.

Kenny should and must go if Fine Gael to form a government after the next election. While Kenny has been able to cushion himself in Fianna Fáil's declining midterm polling, the race into the next general will see those same polls swing dramatically back toward FF as voters cease to simply react to the status quo and consider what the country's leadership will look like moving forward. Kenny cannot win that dialogue, Bruton can, and if there's anybody within Fine Gael who are aware of this reality they will use this opportunity (contrived in large part by the media though it may be) to restructure strengthen the party.

Red_Marauder

Lame Lantern wrote: »

Regarding the future of Kenny's leadership, if Richard Bruton has a hand to show now is the time. However, Bruton's profile has been eclipsed by Kenny's for months now in contrast to other political figures with designs on party leaderships so I doubt he's really been whipping votes behind the scenes.

Him doing so would spell disaster for Fine Gael.

He is our Finance man - I don't want to see Varadkar or Creighton or Coveney or Ciarán O Donnell in Finance, capable as they might become.

I want to see Richard Bruton, the former Enterprise Minister who did an MPhil in Oxford on Irish Government Debt, the most eminant professional economist in Leinster House, work as the opposition spokesman on finance and eventually as Minister for Finance.

His unique talents would be wasted in the cow herding and media courting and kissing babies and flagwaving that takes up so much of the leader's time.

Lame Lantern

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Him doing so would spell disaster for Fine Gael.

He is our Finance man - I don't want to see Varadkar or Creighton or Coveney or Ciarán O Donnell in Finance, capable as they might become.

I want to see Richard Bruton, the former Enterprise Minister who did an MPhil in Oxford on Irish Government Debt, the most eminant professional economist in Leinster House, work as the opposition spokesman on finance and eventually as Minister for Finance.

His unique talents would be wasted in the cow herding and media courting and kissing babies and flagwaving that takes up so much of the leader's time.

Too bad that without him at the helm he'll never get the chance to have any influence on the department of finance at all. Also, Taoisigh are more than capable of having a strong hand in finance as with any other portfolio (and I guarantee you with Kenny at taoiseach the department would not have the same priorities as one working under Taoiseach Bruton), he just would not be handling some of the more matter-of-course activities of the department.

Red_Marauder

Lame Lantern wrote: »

Too bad that without him at the helm he'll never get the chance to have any influence on the department of finance at all.

You're either predicting that without Bruton leading FG, FG will never get into power; or else that as Minister for Finance he will have no significant role.

I can't decide which is more blatantly incorrect.

Also, Taoisigh are more than capable of having a strong hand in finance as with any other portfolio

Personally, I'd rather have a full time chairman (Taoiseach) in Kenny and a full time finance minister in Bruton. I think most people would prefer Bruton doing the books rather than chairing meetings and getting caught up in press or organizational/ political party meanderings.

and I guarantee you with Kenny at taoiseach the department would not have the same priorities as one working under Taoiseach Bruton

How? How do you guarantee that?

Deise Tom

I have not read all posts on here and have no intention of doing so, so dont know if what i have to say is said already or not.

Just heard on the News that Enda Kenny has the Full support of his front bench. Of course he does. They are not going to try and cut themselves out of a job IF fine Gael gets in power after the next General Election. Does he not know that it is the back benchers that he has to be careful of.

gandalf

It was highly unlikely that a push would happen today. What this is like is the dreaded vote of confidence a beleagued football manager gets a week before the tanned Italian gets unveiled as the new boss.

The players in this will go off and form their justification, talk to the people whose support they need and they will then make the move. Its only a matter of time now.

Darsad

Deise Tom wrote: »

Just heard on the News that Enda Kenny has the dull support of his front bench. Of course he does.

Im assuming thats a typo ! In the same interview I heard Kenny admitting he had messed up in media interviews and that from now on he was going to be himself ! My God Cowen must be laughing his nuts off at this I am so disillusioned now im begining to think the Cult AKA The Greens will even get back in what a mess !

Ally Dick

Darsad wrote: »

Im assuming thats a typo ! In the same interview I heard Kenny admitting he had messed up in media interviews and that from now on he was going to be himself ! My God Cowen must be laughing his nuts off at this I am so disillusioned now im begining to think the Cult AKA The Greens will even get back in what a mess !

I'm crying because the main winners are the Labour/Marxist party

anymore

Darsad wrote: »

Im assuming thats a typo ! In the same interview I heard Kenny admitting he had messed up in media interviews and that from now on he was going to be himself ! My God Cowen must be laughing his nuts off at this I am so disillusioned now im begining to think the Cult AKA The Greens will even get back in what a mess !

I share your sense of disillusionment....Enda Kenny's main talent and the thing that was to justify his position as potential Taoiseach in waiting, was his supposed talent for management and organisation. He has now made himself look so utterly inept and incompetent that a Kenny leD FG government combined with the political wing of the public sector, Labour, look increasingly unattractive. What a dreary commentary on Irish politics.

peasant

I've just re-watched last night's frontline episode. In the lead in to the GL interview they showed some old footage of GL's candicacy announcement and his election. Here are the Enda Kenny soundbites from both occassions:


Enda Kenna on announcing GL's candicacy:

Fine Gael is the only party, the one party, that with the people's support, the people throughout the country, can actually guarantee a change in governement

Enda Kenny after GL's election victory:

We're intested here in the people, we're interested here in the country, we're interested in sorting out the mess that we're left in and we know how we can do that. And we'll use all the talent available to us, both in the dail, in the sanead and at council level to see that that happens in the shortest possible time

Now ...why shouldn't George Lee have believed that he was in there to roll up his sleeves, to be given a role and a task to help effect change of governement as quickly as possible ....and not to languish on the speaker circuit and on the back-benches until the 2012 elections?

FlashGordon1969

peasant wrote: »

I've just re-watched last night's frontline episode. In the lead in to the GL interview they showed some old footage of GL's candicacy announcement and his election. Here are the Enda Kenny soundbites from both occassions:


Enda Kenna on announcing GL's candicacy:



Enda Kenny after GL's election victory:



Now ...why shouldn't George Lee have believed that he was in there to roll up his sleeves, to be given a role and a task to help effect change of governement as quickly as possible ....and not to languish on the speaker circuit and on the back-benches until the 2012 elections?

Steven Coveney said He gave him a document on the smart economy to comment on-he didnt bother his arse adding anything to it.He didn't even do Steven the courtesy of replying! There is no doubt Bruton could have been more welcoming but why oh why didn't George go to Enda earlier and indicate his displeasure?? He is a man in his 50s not a school boy. Infantile. When the dust has settled he will realise what an idiot he has been. What message is this to young people-give up if you don't get what you want in 8 months???

FlashGordon1969

Fianna Fail cant be rejoicing at another battering in Dublin South. It will be between LAB and FG. Anyone who thinks FF can win this seat is utterly delusional. Alex white will prob win it but I cant see Cowen rushing to the polls. Its a strong FG constituency but I think Most FG voters are more angry at LEE than Kenny. Remains to be seen. Look at Paddypower on this..follow the money..

Eliot Rosewater

One has got to remember that he was asked to take it on. There was something of an expectation there.

Also some people have been saying that this is a betrayal of the electorate. Is it? When the people voted him in was it in the belief he would just be another aul backbencher? Hardly...

The way the public has responded to this "furore" has spawned a grotesque double standard. This forum is constantly filled with cries for more accountability and less gombeenism in the government institutions. Then when Lee decides to get out of this culture because he cannot change it he too is heckled. How ridiculous and down-heartening.

stumpypeeps

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

One has got to remember that he was asked to take it on. There was something of an expectation there.

Also some people have been saying that this is a betrayal of the electorate. Is it? When the people voted him in was it in the belief he would just be another aul backbencher? Hardly...

The way the public has responded to this "furore" has spawned a grotesque double standard. This forum is constantly filled with cries for more accountability and less gombeenism in the government institutions. Then when Lee decides to get out of this culture because he cannot change it he too is heckled.

So because the people of SD elected him he immediately steps in front of every other politician in FG?

FG made a serious error of judgement in pursuing him. George Lee showed a complete lack of understanding of Politics.

FlashGordon1969

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

One has got to remember that he was asked to take it on. There was something of an expectation there.

Also some people have been saying that this is a betrayal of the electorate. Is it? When the people voted him in was it in the belief he would just be another aul backbencher? Hardly...

The way the public has responded to this "furore" has spawned a grotesque double standard. This forum is constantly filled with cries for more accountability and less gombeenism in the government institutions. Then when Lee decides to get out of this culture because he cannot change it he too is heckled. How ridiculous and down-heartening.

Lee had problems with Bruton-Bruton is hardly a hack or Goombeen?LEE failed to respond to offer to comment on Smart Economy document (steven Coveney RTE One Today) The Problem was Lee's ego. More effort should have been made to include him but Lee should have been more patient. Any HR manager would tell you-talk to your boss. Is there any and I mean any evidence, before he told Kenny he was going ,that he had communicated his unhappiness?? Lee the so called great communicator? Truth is he could not hack hours or not being the centre of the universe. He could have been a Minister-now he is only fit for the DEN!