George Lee resigns from Fine Gael and Dail!!!

Laminations

Just an interesting aside, this George Lee thread is the most viewed and commented on thread in the politics forum here. With all the crap thats going on in this country I'm amazed a journalist turned politician with no apparent policies leaving the Dail is the most important thing to be discussing.

Red_Marauder

Laminations wrote: »

Just an interesting aside, this George Lee thread is the most viewed and commented on thread in the politics forum here. With all the crap thats going on in this country I'm amazed a journalist turned politician with no apparent policies leaving the Dail is the most important thing to be discussing.

It's a very specific issue with (essentially) one thread, if you add up all the seperate economic posts they would obviously far outnumber it - there's an entire Irish economic forum in fairness.

Shayman

johngalway wrote: »

I hear that GL is looking for the Washington Correspondent job. Whether it's true or not I can't say. I know May was the end of his leave of absence.

Ah, I heard he's taking over the Dance show weekend nights on 2FM while they find him something to do...

UltimateMale

Fair play to George, a man with integrity and honesty. Good traits - but they no future in politics in this country

Idbatterim

Fine Gael literally have the next Election wrapped up, if they do one thing! and that is get rid of Kenny as front man! I cant believe the writing is on the wall, all the effort the FG TD's go through and its going to be for nothing, because they dont have the spine to tell Enda the way it is! What a waste for the part and the country! All we need is a decent alternative to FF and people will flock to vote for it! How difficult can it be?! Dont get some wishy washy man like Cowen either! they need a hardliner, who will actually get things done! not deliberate and consult every vested interest!

Idbatterim

This crap of whether or not hes up for the job! the answer is so obvious its pathetic! Ofcourse hes not up to it! Its black and white, it doesnt have to be complicated...

storybud1

when i first heard about george jacking it in,i thought,fair play to you george,but the more i think about it,i am very annoyed at him,surely he knew the deal when he signed up with enda,also why didn't he make waves in the press,i know he may have been censured for not following the party line,but the public would have been on his side,enda may have sacked him,but he would have exposed all the crap that goes on in politics,as it is now,there is nobody on the inside ,not sure you thought this out george,where are you now,in the wilderness,i think your being very naive,how about starting your own party,or maybe your realised when you saw the books,how badly off the country actually is,and that there is no easy cure ,anyway,good luck george,in whatever you decide to do

Red_Marauder

UltimateMale wrote: »

Fair play to George, a man with integrity and honesty. Good traits - but they no future in politics in this country

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. George Lee quitting the Dáil does not spell the end of integrity and honesty in Irish politics.

This exasperated grief with one ex-journalist quitting politics is somewhat bewildering. Sure, he would have been great to have on board - but it's hardly like the IMF has just come in or the British have landed.

People need to wake up and quit acting like panicking sheep, running around in circles, passing further worry and fright to each other.

Move on. George will.

anymore

Idbatterim wrote: »

Fine Gael literally have the next Election wrapped up, if they do one thing! and that is get rid of Kenny as front man! I cant believe the writing is on the wall, all the effort the FG TD's go through and its going to be for nothing, because they dont have the spine to tell Enda the way it is! What a waste for the part and the country! All we need is a decent alternative to FF and people will flock to vote for it! How difficult can it be?! Dont get some wishy washy man like Cowen either! they need a hardliner, who will actually get things done! not deliberate and consult every vested interest!

This is an important point. Why would we have confidence in FG to govern when they have shown themselves so inept in the manner of thier leadership ? I say that having voted for them in last two elections !

anymore

Laminations wrote: »

Just an interesting aside, this George Lee thread is the most viewed and commented on thread in the politics forum here. With all the crap thats going on in this country I'm amazed a journalist turned politician with no apparent policies leaving the Dail is the most important thing to be discussing.

The issue touches on a lot of different matters of interest to people.
It has the Messiah disppappears appeal, it touches on Kenny's competence, on the general relevance of the dail and the work carried out by politicians, it has the appeal of a soap opera type of incident and as Eoghan Harris said on Newstalk, women apparently went mad over george Lee. So it has politicis, intrigue, mystery and sex ! What more could you want ?

brianthebard

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lee-passed-up-privilege-of-place-on-economic-trip-2060321.html

Story in the Indo today further proves that Lee could have had a say in FG policy making if he had wanted it; the more information comes out the more it becomes clear that he just wasn't up to the job of TD. Tbh he's not the first and if he had just admitted that instead of stabbing his former colleagues in the back he'd probably get more sympathy across the board.

paddyland

brianthebard wrote: »

Story in the Indo today further proves that Lee could have had a say in FG policy making if he had wanted it; the more information comes out the more it becomes clear that he just wasn't up to the job of TD. Tbh he's not the first and if he had just admitted that instead of stabbing his former colleagues in the back he'd probably get more sympathy across the board.

These are all sexed up stories to make FG look good and Lee look bad. Lee is in the unenviable position now of being one man alone trying to defend himself against the second most powerful party machine in the country.

I am sure there is quite an element of misjudgement and mishandling on Lee's part. But in politics today, you are either part of the party machine, and do and say the right thing, or you are out in the cold. There is no room for independent voices or opinions. Party first, just like in FF.

Lee doesn't come out of this good. But I have to say, FG come out of this worse. Well it's nothing surprising, after all.

Foolish Penny

Personally I think it's great that George Lee and de Búrca jumped ship. I think we all know that our political system is corrupt. It seems that we really do need to broad sweeping changes, and FG or FF will never willingly allow that. I hear a lot of chatter about a new "Irish Reform Party". I'm not holding my breath though...

GSF

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/policies-that-fg-ignored-revealed-by-lee-2062794.html

George Lee's "ignored" policy suggestions:

• Mr Lee said the Government plan to reduce debt by 2014 would crucify the economy, and we should ignore our deficit in the short term.
• We should take the fight to Europe and claw back our economic-control instruments -- which include our own currency, the deficit, the ability to print our own money and setting our own interest rates.
• We should cut corporation tax to raise more money.
• We should introduce a stimulus package to help create jobs.

He may well be proved right as regards the € if it starts to implode soon anyway.

eoinbn

GSF wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/policies-that-fg-ignored-revealed-by-lee-2062794.html

George Lee's "ignored" policy suggestions:


He may well be proved right as regards the € if it starts to implode soon anyway.

A few weeks ago everyone was complaining that the euro was too strong and that we would have to leave it to make our exports more competitive, now it's decreasing in valuing and the currency is doomed!

I can't believe now naïve he is. Even if the FG party also thought that leaving the euro was the best thing for Ireland they would NOT say so publicly as that info is too market sensitive.

imitation

Anybody who says we should leave the euro has no practical grounding in reality. If we switched back our external debt would rocket over night as it would still be in euro, but we`d have our own currency with the sole purpose of devaluation. More over you`d probably end up with the situation in 3rd world country's were people use dollars and euros instead of there own dodgy national currency.

Cutting corporation tax would simply enrage the eu, and not fix the real problem, that salary's here are simply too high. If we left the EU, which would be more than likely with his suggested changes, then we could lower corperation tax all we liked, but MNCs wouldn`t touch us with a bargepole without the single market.

Rb

Foolish Penny wrote: »

Personally I think it's great that George Lee and de Búrca jumped ship. I think we all know that our political system is corrupt. It seems that we really do need to broad sweeping changes, and FG or FF will never willingly allow that. I hear a lot of chatter about a new "Irish Reform Party". I'm not holding my breath though...

Ok, since I've heard a few people say this now but never go into any detail, I'm going to give you a chance to prove that it's not just a vain attempt to sound like you know what you're talking about.

How is the Political system corrupt? How did George Lee leaving FG prove or highlight this? George Lee ran for, and got elected as, a TD representing the people of Dublin South yet left because he apparently couldn't get up the ranks (in Fine Gael, not the Government (since they're not in Government, something Lee seemed to neglect to realise)) quick enough in his 9 months in Fine Gael, where is the corruption in that? If you're inclined to say that it's due to Fine Gael looking after their senior members, why should Lee, who has no political experience, be booted up the ranks?

Why do we need "broad sweeping changes?, what needs to be changed and what effect are they currently having on our political system? What possible changes do you suggest and what do you foresee as their (presumably) positive consequences?

If you can't answer this then by all means feel free to ignore it, rather than making an attempt to save face.

Foolish Penny

Rb wrote: »

Ok, since I've heard a few people say this now but never go into any detail, I'm going to give you a chance to prove that it's not just a vain attempt to sound like you know what you're talking about.

How is the Political system corrupt? How did George Lee leaving FG prove or highlight this? George Lee ran for, and got elected as, a TD representing the people of Dublin South yet left because he apparently couldn't get up the ranks (in Fine Gael, not the Government (since they're not in Government, something Lee seemed to neglect to realise)) quick enough in his 9 months in Fine Gael, where is the corruption in that? If you're inclined to say that it's due to Fine Gael looking after their senior members, why should Lee, who has no political experience, be booted up the ranks?

Why do we need "broad sweeping changes?, what needs to be changed and what effect are they currently having on our political system? What possible changes do you suggest and what do you foresee as their (presumably) positive consequences?

If you can't answer this then by all means feel free to ignore it, rather than making an attempt to save face.

Coz that's the why.

Biggins

RTE news report:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0214/leeg.html

Opinion divided over Lee resignation - poll
Sunday, 14 February 2010 10:57

A new opinion poll shows public opinion evenly divided on George Lee's decision to resign from politics and from Fine Gael.
The Millward Brown IMS poll in today's Sunday Independent also shows that half of those surveyed do not believe Enda Kenny will lead Fine Gael into the next election.

Initial reaction to George Lee's shock resignation indicated overwhelming support for his decision - this poll, taken on Wednesday and Thursday, shows opinion evenly divided.
1,000 voters were questioned for the newspaper poll; 45% thought Mr Lee was right to resign when he did, 43% said he was wrong, and 13% had no opinion.

A clear majority of 58% think he should be allowed to return to work in RTÉ, while just 27% thought he should set up a new political party.
Voters were not asked if they wanted Enda Kenny to lead Fine Gael into the next election, however they were asked if they thought he would do so - 38% say he will, 49% believe he will not.

Richard Bruton is the clear favourite to succeed him if he does stand down.

GSF

eoinbn wrote: »

A few weeks ago everyone was complaining that the euro was too strong and that we would have to leave it to make our exports more competitive, now it's decreasing in valuing and the currency is doomed!

The ones who want to stay in the Euro are the PIIGS who benefit by being included with Germany, BeNeLux, etc. But at some point the non-PIIGS are either going to have to force fiscal rectitude on Club Med, permanently subsidise them or throw them out of the Euro. Ireland seems to be the only one that is (half) serious about getting its house in order. In that respect Ireland seems to be more Northern European than Club Med.

democrates

As more transpired on this George Lee has appeared less than fully forthright. I find it hard to buy Leo Varadkars comment on Frontline that it was about George wanting to be in the limelight every day, given the job he left in RTE and the backroom job he wanted. Needlessy disingenuous Leo!

But Georges story doesn't add up, on the one hand he says he did lots of constituency work and enjoyed it, but on the other hand complains that he wasn't invited to the top table to give input. It's clear he didn't have a magnum opus solve-all solution to offer, but let's not single him out for that. No one was stopping him from using the network and his formal roles to advance his ideas though.

The impression I get is that he felt having to pursue others to pitch ideas was beneath him, and with that self-image did he really enjoy the constituency work involving peoples personal problems, from medical cards and streetlights to hospital waiting lists and getting Mick back in the methadone programme or whatever, or was that too, beneath him?

As brianthebard and others have said, he didn't need to put the knife in. Straight off the bat he mentioned 'mutterings' about Enda's leadership, even if it's legit it's like an aircraft deploying flak to distract the locked on missile of media and public attention. All considered I'm left with doubts about the extent of his integrity.

The individual aside, we could still do with a German style list system allowing us to elect people to non-constituency roles, it's not a panacea but the win is having a few people fully focussed on critical national/regional issues without being distracted by potholes. The constituency responsibility in the remaining majority of roles still gives these policy-makers regular exposure to the realities ordinary people are dealing with, keeping it real.

I'm optimistic that we are not stuck with the status quo, reforms are in the pipeline. We're seeing increased participation where public input is sought by a range of bodies before policy is set for example, and Dublin is to get an elected Mayor with more powers. The latter is badly needed because too much power has been outsourced to county managers.

That said, Eoghan Harris et al shouldn't get to pull a fast one. His propaganda style bluster against 'south Dublin types' is cynically divisive for starters, but in all of this let's not allow the political establishment to grab the cloak of glory, not now, having marched us into the depths of economic hardship.

ei.sdraob

brianthebard wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lee-passed-up-privilege-of-place-on-economic-trip-2060321.html

Story in the Indo today further proves that Lee could have had a say in FG policy making if he had wanted it; the more information comes out the more it becomes clear that he just wasn't up to the job of TD. Tbh he's not the first and if he had just admitted that instead of stabbing his former colleagues in the back he'd probably get more sympathy across the board.

Jesus throe were his "policy idea" :eek:

good thing he was ignored so, the guy should go back to RTE so

The Raven.

I have to say that I’m glad that George Lee has resigned from the Dail. I sincerely hope he gets back soon to RTE as he was sorely missed. He is a man of integrity, intelligence, and brilliance in his field. He was never afraid to speak openly about the current state of the Irish economy.

It took great courage to resign from Fine Gael. They don’t deserve him. They used him as a spectacular publicity stunt and then totally undermined his knowledge and skills by treating him as a nobody in the back benches, ‘ignored as a policy-maker’, while other less capable members waffle in the inner circle. This has been glaringly obvious ever since he took office. I could go on, but I think Olivia O’Leary says it extremely well in this audio recorded about a month ago.

http://url.ie/4yec

PS: I’m not a newcomer with two posts. I’m still waiting to be reunited with my original account as ‘The Raven.’

baalthor

brianthebard wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lee-passed-up-privilege-of-place-on-economic-trip-2060321.html

Story in the Indo today further proves that Lee could have had a say in FG policy making if he had wanted it; the more information comes out the more it becomes clear that he just wasn't up to the job of TD. Tbh he's not the first and if he had just admitted that instead of stabbing his former colleagues in the back he'd probably get more sympathy across the board.

Slightly different perspective in the IT.

This bit is key:

Lee’s expectations seem a little naive, but he expected that the economic team – Bruton, O’Donnell, Coveney, Varadkar and himself — would sit down together and thrash out policy.

As far as I can make out, Enda and FG didn't take Lee seriously when he talked about saving the economy for his grand-children. Lee really wanted to join FG to implement his policy views which he saw as vital to saving the country. But FG just saw the bye -election victory and assumed that Lee would be happy with a "big job".

It seems incredible that Lee, Bruton and Enda didn't sit down and discuss FG's and Lee's economic policy views before Lee was accepted to run in the bye-election.
But I guess Irish politics works on the assumption that any "policy differences" can be overcome by appointing the person in question to a "big job".
And sadly, most of the time this turns out to be true (see De Burca, Deirdre).

mike65

George Lee was on the blower to RTE Radio this morning to refute the leaving the euro stuff. I didn't hear it myself but I read that on P.ie

Wouldn't be the first time the Sindo got something wrong.