Benefits of Organic Production

eightyfish

taconnol wrote: »

This is getting ridiculous. First you claim your document is the study, even though anyone with a basic background in research would know straight away that it couldn't be.

That paper is the officially published version of the study. I'm perfectly open to being proved wrong. You have yet to provide any links to anything to support your argument.

Macha

eightyfish wrote: »

That paper is the officially published version of the study. I'm perfectly open to being proved wrong. You have yet to provide any links to anything to support your argument.

That is entirely false. I have already linked to the FSA press release and clearly highlighted the unfounded claims. Either the unfounded claims were fabricated by the FSA somewhere between the study and the press release or the claims are in the study itself. Either way, the FSA are guilty of making false claims about the parameters of their study.

If I can find the original study, which I read last year, I will link to it.

eightyfish

taconnol wrote: »

That is entirely false.

Here is the FSA press release. Here is the full review. Here is the summary.

I stand corrected.

Macha

eightyfish wrote: »

I stand corrected.

Thanks - you were making me think I was imagining things...!

eightyfish

taconnol wrote: »

Thanks - you were making me think I was imagining things...!

I though you might be :rolleyes:

Just had a search through those documents, can't find any version of "there are no important differences in the nutrition content, or any additional health benefits, of organic food when compared with conventionally produced food." It still appears that the fault in that logic - taking a study about nutrition and extending it to "any additional health benefits" lies with the FSA press release and not the study itself.

Macha

eightyfish wrote: »

I though you might be :rolleyes:

Just had a search through those documents, can't find any version of "there are no important differences in the nutrition content, or any additional health benefits, of organic food when compared with conventionally produced food." It still appears that the fault in that logic - taking a study about nutrition and extending it to "any additional health benefits" lies with the FSA press release and not the study itself.

I see I also stand corrected

Mozart1986

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

Well, I've never seen "organic" anything that is less expensive than conventionally produced, and I hope you don't mind me saying that to be accused of a "very low level of understanding of the concept" comes over as a little patronising.

I have done extensive taste tests on organic vegetables vs conventionally produced vegetables, and it's not possible to make any claims for them regarding flavour. their appearance and size is generally less attractive and smaller/less developed than conventinoally produced too, and they are, on average , 30% more expensive.

As to claims of increased nutritional value in organic vegetables, or claims that "organic" food is "better", the largest ever meta analaysis of over 5000 studies carried out for the FSA in the UK concluded that " Organic food is no more healthy or nutritious than other food" and that "The work clearly showed organically and conventionally-produced foods to be comparable in their nutritional intake, including in vitamin C, calcium, iron and fatty acids"

While there is a a belief, especially amongst the middel class, that organically produced foodstuffs are healthier and have a superior nutrient profile, there is currently no evidence to support the selection of organically over conventionally produced foods on the basis of nutritional superiority.

That was a ridiculous study and you are blindly accepting its assertions. The fact is that all it did was catalogue studies that, in passing, refered to organically produced food for the past 50 years. Then it cut out the first 25years of those papers because they didn't meet the proper standards of research, and used other criteria to cut out lots more of 5000 papers, reducing it to a fraction of the original source material. The fact is that there has been little to no thorough scientific investigations of the health benefits of organic vs conventionally produced food and that study categorised and documented a relatively small number of studies that refered to the project rather than directly tackled it. I grow lots of my own veg and I can tell you for an absolute certainty that my crying onions are far far far tastier than store bought onions, the taste off my fresh-picked carrots is superior to bland, tasteless supermarket carrots and my garlic is big and purple and bulbous, as opposed to the little pale supermarket garlic you get. As far as store-bought organic produce is concerned, I have no idea, I buy my fruit veg in a local veg market and if you said the word "organic" to him he'd only reply "Wha? Well dems not plastic if thats what you mean!"

I've no doubt that the "organic" label is just another money-making racket designed to further kill off the small producer. The middle-class Fallon & Byrne's shoppers are always the most malleable sods.

Cunsiderthis

Mozart1986 wrote: »

That was a ridiculous study and you are blindly accepting its assertions. The fact is that all it did was catalogue studies that, in passing, refered to organically produced food for the past 50 years. Then it cut out the first 25years of those papers because they didn't meet the proper standards of research, and used other criteria to cut out lots more of 5000 papers, reducing it to a fraction of the original source material. The fact is that there has been little to no thorough scientific investigations of the health benefits of organic vs conventionally produced food and that study categorised and documented a relatively small number of studies that refered to the project rather than directly tackled it. I grow lots of my own veg and I can tell you for an absolute certainty that my crying onions are far far far tastier than store bought onions, the taste off my fresh-picked carrots is superior to bland, tasteless supermarket carrots and my garlic is big and purple and bulbous, as opposed to the little pale supermarket garlic you get. As far as store-bought organic produce is concerned, I have no idea, I buy my fruit veg in a local veg market and if you said the word "organic" to him he'd only reply "Wha? Well dems not plastic if thats what you mean!"

I've no doubt that the "organic" label is just another money-making racket designed to further kill off the small producer. The middle-class Fallon & Byrne's shoppers are always the most malleable sods.

I agree - there is nothing which quite beats going out to the garden and digging up ones own new potatoes, and eating them a couple of hours later. Fresh vegatable, whether organic or not, always taste far better than ones which have been involved in what the stores call a "supply chain" in addition to sitting on a shelf in a supermarket for a few days. And lets not get into irradiation ( and there is nothing to prevent "organic" foods being irradited also, as there is no labelling to show which foodstuffs have bee irradiated abroad).

I've grown gooseberries, beans, potatoes, tomatoes, strawberries, raspberries, peas and all sorts of vegetables over the years, and they always taste so much better fresh from the garden!

One of the things which has always puzzled me is how few people in Ireland, with gardens, have never grown vegetables or fruit.

Mozart1986

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

I agree - there is nothing which quite beats going out to the garden and digging up ones own new potatoes, and eating them a couple of hours later. Fresh vegatable, whether organic or not, always taste far better than ones which have been involved in what the stores call a "supply chain" in addition to sitting on a shelf in a supermarket for a few days. And lets not get into irradiation ( and there is nothing to prevent "organic" foods being irradited also, as there is no labelling to show which foodstuffs have bee irradiated abroad).

I've grown gooseberries, beans, potatoes, tomatoes, strawberries, raspberries, peas and all sorts of vegetables over the years, and they always taste so much better fresh from the garden!

One of the things which has always puzzled me is how few people in Ireland, with gardens, have never grown vegetables or fruit.

They're doing it more and more:) Are you involved in www.giyireland.com? Its a great resource and it's numbers are growing rapidly, with groups all over the country. It has never been so easy to get help and advice as well as commaradary and the motivation that a community provides. I'm setting up a group in my home town with a bunch of young people and I'm really excited about the potential of it. Forget the "Organic" label. Grow your own and you'll always know exactly where it came from and whats happened to your food:)