Handicap increases

PhilipMarlowe

I picked myself up and moved myself on once last year... I was +somethingawful after 11, hit 2 balls OOB on the 12th and got out of dodge before I made my partners lose the will to live from having to watch me. It's probably the first time I've ever quit a round and only did it because my partners were glad to be rid of me! I think it's bad form but sometimes you're better off out of there if your head isn't right.
Of course then you get the genuine call that means you have to leave the course which is understandable... a couple per season should be allowed but any more and you should have to explain yourself IMO. And I don't mean an NR because you scratched a hole in a strokeplay event - you can still get adjusted for that anyway. I mean where no card is returned at all.

IITYWYBMAD

f22 wrote: »

Yeah, 9 month ban. But the fact that every player and selector knows you're a cheat makes it worse.

If you do something like that my belief is that you've probably did it before and would have done it again if he hadn't been caught.

This ^ and...

f22 wrote: »

Not a member of my club Jimjo, although his club is a par 3 over my back wall. I can't commetn on ho members are viewing it but i will say i know a couple of young lads who play for leinster who don't view him in the same light any more.

Sheet, I have to disagree, he deserves everything he gets in my eyes. An example needs to be made, it's not just that he will never do it again, it's the fact that it may stop any others from doing it in the first place.

Incidentally I have heard of players being thrown out of clubs for similar.

...this..I have to agree with. I've only ever come across a blatant case of cheating once myself (a crappy society outing in Druids Glen), but I think that every cheat deserves what he/she gets.

jimjo

f22 wrote: »

Sheet, I have to disagree, he deserves everything he gets in my eyes. An example needs to be made, it's not just that he will never do it again, it's the fact that it may stop any others from doing it in the first place.

Incidentally I have heard of players being thrown out of clubs for similar.

I do think its a little bit harsh. Given that he is a young man I’d be a little bit more lenient. The disgrace of being associated with cheating is bad enough, and something like a ban on interclub competitions and maybe competing in competitions in other clubs would be enough, without banning him from his own club comps.

The club could introduce a measure to monitor the player in question and insist that he plays with a committee member or a long serving member (of course if they themselves want to play with the player in question) who are asked to really keep an eye on his shots. I know many will disagree with this approach but its just an idea, in a way I’d like to put the fella right but still give him the fright of his life in the process.

In regards to NR’s, unfortunately I think most of us are in the same boat. Its happened one or twice max this year when the head was in the shed and not focused on golf. One thing I will say is that I’ve overheard a few playing partners saying they were reluctant to hand in their cards cause of embarrassment for their scores showing on Master Scoreboard or in other clubs Howdidido, which I can understand.

ShriekingSheet

f22 wrote: »

Sheet, I have to disagree, he deserves everything he gets in my eyes. An example needs to be made, it's not just that he will never do it again, it's the fact that it may stop any others from doing it in the first place.

Hmmm, fair enough. I'd just be surprised if he ever picks up a club again... I think you know him/the situation better than I do, so my view is a little more superficial.

jimmystars

He got off lightly in my opinion. 9 months without golf gives people time to forget and i cant see too many people shunning him when he returns to be honest. When he comes back will he need a new handicap or would he assume his old one as you cant really count on his golfnet to be an honest reflection of his abillity.

Mr. Larson

Licksy wrote: »

And I don't mean an NR because you scratched a hole in a strokeplay event - you can still get adjusted for that anyway.

Really? That's interesting. So if you are off 18 for Example, Par is 72 and you shoot 92, but this involved a 9 on one hole and you shot only +11 for the remaining 17 holes you can get cut?

I would imagine this requires that you have an extra vigilant Handicap secretary or the guys checking the scores are being extra vigilant. Tbh my goal in playing golf is to get as low as possible, and I have often stood level par or better on the 6th or 7th and taken a 9 on a hole and switched off immediately.

If I knew for sure that I shot the lights out in a medal barring one massive blowout on a hole, I would be more inclined to try and score well, knowing I could potentially get cut.

AldilaMan

Clause 19.8
For all holes completed, the player's Nett Differential is reduced by the number of strokes taken on any hole in excess of nett double bogey.
For holes with no score recorded, a score of nett double bogey is entered.
In laymans terms an 18 handicapper (in strokeplay) with a shot on every hole can score a max of 7 on a par 4 for handicapping purposes (nett double bogey). If you take a 12 the full score counts for the competition but it will be reduce to 7 for handicap reduction/increase. This reduction can be seen clearly on golfnet records. An 18 handicapper could shoot 94 on a par 72 (giving a nett 76) but having scored a 10 on 2 of the par fours would have the nett score reduced by 6 strokes giving a nett 70 and therefore being cut .6 assuming CSS of 72.

On the issue of vigilant Handicap secs to monitor these scores - not neccessary - computerisation deals with this automatically.

AldilaMan

BUACHAILL

I believe the guy deserved everything he got and its foolish on his behalf because like everyone has said his name is muck and will never be looked at again in the same light which is already punishment enough.

On the NR's, My club introduced a system last year that there is a handicap review every November. They will go through everyone. Anybody that has had substantial non returns will get cut all these .1's with some interest. Last year some of the so called bandits got cut 2 shots etc, to say they were not happy was an understatement but I think its a great way of sorting it.

Unfortunately they can win events before the cut but I dont think you can get a perfect system to be honest as its mostly down to the honesty and integrity of the players involved.

Nemesis

If you enter the competition and don't return your card the advice the GUI suggests is a warning letter after the first offence and suspension from club competitions for 4 weeks after the second offence.

If you have a few NR's on your card and you return your card all is fine.

The penalty is there but a lot of the time when a card isn't entered is due to someone not having a clue about entering the computer or has moved club and isn't setup on the system correctly.

A bigger problem is the guys who play 9 holes and go in early because of the rain or want to watch a match on TV.


I've seen a guy who had 18 points after 9 and 9 NRs on back 9 get .1 back a few years ago.

fatherbuzcagney

2yrs ago i got cut from 16 to 14.2 after a competition , the next comp round(away) i played of 14 and had 39pts and css was 36pts,so i was due a cut of .9 which would technically have me playing of 13. the computer was not working so the cards were left in box in hut. When i rang next day to see what won i was told 40pts won and beat on cb for 2nd and i asked the club official to notify my club so i could get cut. I also called into our club hc secretary to notify him. No adjustment was made to my hc. The next couple of rounds i played of 13 even though i was 14 but played poorly and did not return cards as so adjustment was made which in my own mind balanced out things. Not able to play off 13 i drifted out to 15 before the season ended, is what i done wrong or against rules?

dvemail

fatherbuzcagney wrote: »

2yrs ago i got cut from 16 to 14.2 after a competition , the next comp round(away) i played of 14 and had 39pts and css was 36pts,so i was due a cut of .9 which would technically have me playing of 13. the computer was not working so the cards were left in box in hut. When i rang next day to see what won i was told 40pts won and beat on cb for 2nd and i asked the club official to notify my club so i could get cut. I also called into our club hc secretary to notify him. No adjustment was made to my hc. The next couple of rounds i played of 13 even though i was 14 but played poorly and did not return cards as so adjustment was made which in my own mind balanced out things. Not able to play off 13 i drifted out to 15 before the season ended, is what i done wrong or against rules?

Happened me a few times when i was a junior as your handicap wouldnt get cut straight away(may take a week or so).
So i would play off , what i felt should be my new handicap even if i was still down as being off a higher handicap just to be safe.
Im not really sure though what is the right thing to do here either.

f22

It's your responsibility to cut yourself, regardless of the the time it takes to filter through the system.

GreeBo

In my club once you sign into the computer you automatically get 0.1 back unless you are within/under your buffer.
Irrespective of whether or not you hand in/enter you card afterwards.

It was to stop people keeping their handicap artificially low (which is just as prevalent as the artificially high crowd)

IITYWYBMAD

GreeBo wrote: »

In my club once you sign into the computer you automatically get 0.1 back unless you are within/under your buffer.
Irrespective of whether or not you hand in/enter you card afterwards.

It was to stop people keeping their handicap artificially low (which is just as prevalent as the artificially high crowd)

Good idea, but would the GUI not have an issue with this approach?

GreeBo

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

Good idea, but would the GUI not have an issue with this approach?

Well by definition its an NR as you didnt return your card...

Linksman

I got a .1 from a singles on Saturday which brings my handicap up a stroke. My new handicap has been posted on the club noticeboard but I thought only cuts to handicaps took immediate effect - when your handicap went up you had to wait until the end of the month to get the shot back?

GreeBo

for a good while now both take immediate effect...

PhilipMarlowe

Alterations are immediate in the sense that once they are processed by your Home Club then they take immediate effect. So if you play a competition at home then your 0.1 increase will be there as soon as the competition is closed.
For an away competition, you must wait until the away competition is closed and your home secretary downloads and processes the away scores.
The end of the month thing was done away with at the start of 2008/9 I think?

Linksman

Licksy wrote: »

Alterations are immediate in the sense that once they are processed by your Home Club then they take immediate effect. So if you play a competition at home then your 0.1 increase will be there as soon as the competition is closed.
For an away competition, you must wait until the away competition is closed and your home secretary downloads and processes the away scores.
The end of the month thing was done away with at the start of 2008/9 I think?

Cool. Thanks.