Problems in my house-share

pikachucheeks

Hi everyone,

Few issues here that I'd like help with resolving, if you'd be so kind:

Backstory :

- Moved in to the house a few months ago following finding it on Daft.ie

- I don't know my landlord and pay my rent via the key tenant who knows him. The key tenant lives in the house part-time, at weekends.

1) One of my house mates moved a dog in.

Because I don't know my landlord, I have no idea whether this is allowed or not. I'm not entirely happy with the dog being in the house, but I've said nothing to keep the peace and to avoid any fights.

2) I discovered my key tenant hasn't been paying our bills.

When I moved in, I was told that bills were divided equally between everyone in the house... and heard nothing since. Our key tenant said nothing. I saw bills arriving, but he never confronted me or anyone else in the house about them, so I assumed he was paying for them out of our rent or would come to us at a later stage to settle them.
I didn't confront him myself because he's barely home and it always slipped my mind.

I found an open letter last week stating that he owes 500 euro to the ESB, they're threatening legal action and / or to discontinue our service.

I'm unsure how to handle the situations.

I know that I want to meet with my landlord to have a contract drawn up and signed, but I don't know how to go about it.

Thanks for any advice you can give.

Coriolanus

Was a lease signed at all, or is it just that the lease you did sign didn't cover pets or the dispensation of the bills?
Reason I ask, is that if there's no lease, I'd be taking the opportunity to vacate the premises, once it's settled how much, if any of the bills you owe.
Sounds like a very ad-hoc situation in regard to the landlord etc, plus they dog is annoying you, right?

pikachucheeks

Nevore wrote: »

Was a lease signed at all, or is it just that the lease you did sign didn't cover pets or the dispensation of the bills?

I didn't sign a lease at all. This is the main reason I'd like to meet the landlord. I should have done it months ago, but I didn't think of it at the time, as the house seemed to be perfect and there was no hassle with dogs or unpaid bills.

Nevore wrote: »

Reason I ask, is that if there's no lease, I'd be taking the opportunity to vacate the premises, once it's settled how much, if any of the bills you owe.

I would leave, but the rent is really cheap (I'm a student! :P) and the key tenant is due to move out less than two months, which would make me the key tenant, in control of things.

helimachoptor

pikachucheeks wrote: »

I didn't sign a lease at all. This is the main reason I'd like to meet the landlord. I should have done it months ago, but I didn't think of it at the time, as the house seemed to be perfect and there was no hassle with dogs or unpaid bills.



I would leave, but the rent is really cheap (I'm a student! :P) and the key tenant is due to move out less than two months, which would make me the key tenant, in control of things.

and the massive ESB bill Pika...

pikachucheeks

helimachoptor wrote: »

and the massive ESB bill Pika...

The bill is in his name...

What I'll do is speak to his OH tonight (She's another tenant in the house), as he won't be home until the weekend.

If the bill isn't sorted in a week's time, I'll move out.

I've been stressed about this for the past week. Just feel totally miserable about things being so up in the air and unorganised

00sully

what name are the bills under?

obviously not yours right? When key tennant leaves, he will be responsible for the bill - get the ESB to set up a new account in your name and start from scratch with them - they will chase who ever name is currently on the bill leaving the premises wiht a service!

Coriolanus

Rent with bills inclusive would be the exception, rather than the rule, so without it being specified on day 1 that the rent would include contributions to the bills, common sense would dictate that it'd be a three way split (or four way or whatever).

That's just how I'd read the situation at least.

If their key tenant is moving out, I suggest you don't get yourself into a situation of being responsible for rent collection etc. It's always worked out as a hassle for me, both being a key, and having to hand over to a key. Much better if all the tenants have individual leases with the landlord, and zero crossover other than the bill split.

helimachoptor

pikachucheeks wrote: »

The bill is in his name...

What I'll do is speak to his OH tonight (She's another tenant in the house), as he won't be home until the weekend.

If the bill isn't sorted in a week's time, I'll move out.

I've been stressed about this for the past week. Just feel totally miserable about things being so up in the air and unorganised

Yes but you mentioned that you will become the key tenant when he leaves, ESB may not let you start a "new account" while the old debt is still there.

pikachucheeks

Nevore wrote: »

If their key tenant is moving out, I suggest you don't get yourself into a situation of being responsible for rent collection etc. It's always worked out as a hassle for me, both being a key, and having to hand over to a key. Much better if all the tenants have individual leases with the landlord, and zero crossover other than the bill split.

Good plan.
I've already discussed with the other tenant in the house that when they leave (the key tenant and his OH), I'll be in charge of bills (if the landlord won't do it) and we'll sign contracts ourselves stating that once bills arrive, they are paid immediately, within one or two days.

I don't mind having some responsibility, provided contracts are signed, stuck to and we have contact with our landlord.

helimachoptor wrote: »

Yes but you mentioned that you will become the key tenant when he leaves, ESB may not let you start a "new account" while the old debt is still there.

I suppose I'll have to discuss paying of the bill with the key tenant and work from there...

Coriolanus

Let us know how you get on.

stepbar

pikachucheeks wrote: »

Good plan.
I've already discussed with the other tenant in the house that when they leave (the key tenant and his OH), I'll be in charge of bills (if the landlord won't do it) and we'll sign contracts ourselves stating that once bills arrive, they are paid immediately, within one or two days.

I don't mind having some responsibility, provided contracts are signed, stuck to and we have contact with our landlord.



I suppose I'll have to discuss paying of the bill with the key tenant and work from there...

I'm not being funny, but you're at a point in time where you could move out with out much hassle. Imagine if this carries on into Apr / May when you're doing exams? I wouldn't want that hanging over me TBH. If he's not paying bills, how do you know he's forwarding on your rent? or even if the landlord knows you exist at all?

ztoical

stepbar wrote: »

I'm not being funny, but you're at a point in time where you could move out with out much hassle. Imagine if this carries on into Apr / May when you're doing exams? I wouldn't want that hanging over me TBH. If he's not paying bills, how do you know he's forwarding on your rent? or even if the landlord knows you exist at all?

+ 1 OP do you have any information on your landlord? Name, vague idea of where they live? Have you any proof you've paid any rent since moving in? Friend of mine in New York moved into a flat with 2 other people and was doing the same as yourself paying one guy to cover the rent and bills....6 months in comes home to find the landlord whom he'd never met raging cus the guy hadn't paid the rent in months nor any of the bills, had fecked off somewhere and the landlord didn't know there was anyone else living there.

Mary-Ellen

It might be worth your while not taking full responsibility for the bills either.
You could try get everyone to take one.
That way there's not as much money changing hands and you won't be left owed a lot of money in case someone leaves.
I tend to volenteer for esb for some reason but it mightn't be the best idea here

the_syco

ztoical wrote: »

6 months in comes home to find the landlord whom he'd never met raging cus the guy hadn't paid the rent in months nor any of the bills, had fecked off somewhere and the landlord didn't know there was anyone else living there.

OP, get the f**k out of there. One reason is the above. Another is the €500 bill, not caring about the dog moving in, etc, etc. In two months time, it'll be April, and you may be turfed out if the landlord doens't know you live there. Having to find and move, the month before the exams will be lots of unneeded stres, imo.

You say you're a student? How did you get the house? Through daft, or through the college? If the latter, they may have the landlords details.

pikachucheeks

stepbar wrote: »

If he's not paying bills, how do you know he's forwarding on your rent? or even if the landlord knows you exist at all

That exact thought went through my mind last night Especially because the key tenant and his OH are saving up for their wedding...

ztoical wrote: »

+ 1 OP do you have any information on your landlord? Name, vague idea of where they live? Have you any proof you've paid any rent since moving in?

I had a talk with the key tenant's OH last night, along with the other girl living in the house.
We just said we wanted to get in touch with the landlord ourselves and that we wanted to know how much we owed for the bills.

She said that was fine, we'd sort out the bills asap and that she'd give us the landlord's number.
His name is Charles and he's living in Templelogue. That's all I know.

If the bills haven't been sorted by the weekend, I'm going to move out. It'll be obvious by then whether they're trying to shaft me or not.

the_syco wrote: »

You say you're a student? How did you get the house? Through daft, or through the college? If the latter, they may have the landlords details.

I got the house through Daft. Took it because it was on a road I really wanted to live on ... nice location etc.

mylittlepony

That exact thought went through my mind last night Especially because the key tenant and his OH are saving up for their wedding...

read that :eek: whats stopping them pocketing your rent into their wedding savings.
You really should have the Landlord bank account for this for Direct debit.

I gota feeling that the couple are the main tenants and you and the other houseshare are the "extras" for them unknown to the landlord. For all he know he thinks he have a professional couple in his house. And they gonna scram in 2months time.
I think the whole situation is a con. Especially you have no legal lease/contract signed, etc.
The mess they gonna leave behind could be shift onto you, who knows what other skeleteons are in their closet.
I would get out ASAP. RUN -

I don't think the rent situation is all that alarming. I've shared about six houses in Dublin and never once signed a lease, and half the time paid the rent into another tenant's account. My ex found the same thing, a lot of places just tend to be very unofficial in that way. It's really only the bills which would have me panicking. The normal thing is to put the bill out on a table when it arrives and have everyone see it and pay their share. I guess there's still no guarantee that the key tenant won't pocket the money and run, but it's better than paying just a fixed amount or never being asked for any money.

jmayo

[quote=[Deleted User];64401611]I don't think the rent situation is all that alarming. I've shared about six houses in Dublin and never once signed a lease, and half the time paid the rent into another tenant's account. My ex found the same thing, a lot of places just tend to be very unofficial in that way. It's really only the bills which would have me panicking. The normal thing is to put the bill out on a table when it arrives and have everyone see it and pay their share. I guess there's still no guarantee that the key tenant won't pocket the money and run, but it's better than paying just a fixed amount or never being asked for any money.[/QUOTE]

Just because it happens a lot doesn't mean it is a good idea.
If they can't be bothered paying the ESB, then there is good chance they are rent collecting and not passing it on.
A €500 outstanding bill for hosue with 3.5 (one only there at weekends) people would work out at lets say €200 per bill.
Someone may be able to get better synopsis on this.
I would say the ESB bill hasn't been paid for good few months.

IMHO it looks like they are going to run up the bills and possibly anything else so they leave with a few quid.
Maybe I and others are wrong, but OP if we are right you and other tenance are going to be screwed.

As others have said you don't need this type of hassel coming up to end of term what with project deadlines and exams.

Get out now, before they do.

The_Conductor

Pikachucheeks- I don't think you really comprehend the potential implications of this. If I were you- I'd be packing my bags and leaving. There is a very good reason the rent was so reasonable- bills were not being paid- and god only knows whether you are officially even living in house. You have no rights there as a tenant- but also no obligations, I'd seriously suggest getting out in the next few days- before they do!!!

Do keep us updated as to whats happening- the folk here offer very good advice, but its up to you to take it onboard.

Best wishes,

Shane

pikachucheeks

[quote=[Deleted User];64401611]I don't think the rent situation is all that alarming. I've shared about six houses in Dublin and never once signed a lease, and half the time paid the rent into another tenant's account. My ex found the same thing, a lot of places just tend to be very unofficial in that way. It's really only the bills which would have me panicking. [/QUOTE]

A lot of places seem to operate on that basis and personally, I'm not comfortable with it anymore.
When I first moved in, everyone in the house seemed lovely, we all got on quite well and I was happy enough. Fast forward a few months, I'm panicking that the so called "lovely" people might be scamming me and trying to play me for a fool.

jmayo wrote: »

I would say the ESB bill hasn't been paid for good few months.

My thinking too. I found another bill that was from October - December (before the scary "you owe 500 euro" bill arrived) and it was 60 euro. Meaning, bills are about 20 euro a month... On that basis, he hasn't been paying for about two years! :eek:

[quote=[Deleted User];64401611]IMHO it looks like they are going to run up the bills and possibly anything else so they leave with a few quid.
Maybe I and others are wrong, but OP if we are right you and other tenance are going to be screwed.[/QUOTE]

I'm thinking the same

smccarrick wrote: »

Pikachucheeks- I don't think you really comprehend the potential implications of this. If I were you- I'd be packing my bags and leaving. There is a very good reason the rent was so reasonable- bills were not being paid- and god only knows whether you are officially even living in house. You have no rights there as a tenant- but also no obligations, I'd seriously suggest getting out in the next few days- before they do!!!

I'm considering that option, definitely.

Just to update people on the situation :

My housemate the other night said that we didn't have an official account with the ESB, in any tenants' name.
She said bills just came to the house ...

I was suspicious of this, as the bill I found had an account number on it and the key tenant's name (obviously! :rolleyes:)

I called up ESB to confirm he had an account this morning, which they confirmed for me.

So, she lied to us.

Following this, I text her this morning to ask her for the landlord's name, number and address. She hasn't replied as of yet (six hours later).

I managed to get my landlord's number by making contact with the landlord of the house next door. He passed me on the details and I have them in front of me now ...

I'm planning on talking to the other person in the house so we can decide together what to do.

I'm hoping that by tonight, we'll have made contact with the landlord together to enquire out whether our rent has been paid and to inform him of the situation with the bill.

I'd like to thank everyone for their help and advice so far. It's really appreciated

Fingers crossed by tonight, It'll be sorted or on the way to being sorted. If nothing's been changed by the weekend, I'll be moving out.

anucksunamun

Jeez Pika what an awful situation, excellent thinking with the neighbour what happened with the landlord?

db

I was in a situation the exact same as this the first time I lived in a house share. I saw the warning signs early and told the key tenant I would move out in 4 weeks and use my deposit as rent until then. I went away for a weekend just before I was due to move out and came back and the house had been emptied. Luckily my room hadn't been touched not that I had much worth taking.

When I came home from work the next day the landlord was there and he told me that the rent hadn't been paid for months. I was lucky that I had already found somewhere else to go so I just moved out there and then but I could have been left homeless.

OP, this is a bad situation for you so get out as quickly as you can. If there are bills to be paid, use your deposit to cover them and get back the rest if possible.

jmayo

pikachucheeks wrote: »

A lot of places seem to operate on that basis and personally, I'm not comfortable with it anymore.
When I first moved in, everyone in the house seemed lovely, we all got on quite well and I was happy enough. Fast forward a few months, I'm panicking that the so called "lovely" people might be scamming me and trying to play me for a fool.

My thinking too. I found another bill that was from October - December (before the scary "you owe 500 euro" bill arrived) and it was 60 euro. Meaning, bills are about 20 euro a month... On that basis, he hasn't been paying for about two years! :eek:

I'm thinking the same



I'm considering that option, definitely.

Just to update people on the situation :

My housemate the other night said that we didn't have an official account with the ESB, in any tenants' name.
She said bills just came to the house ...

I was suspicious of this, as the bill I found had an account number on it and the key tenant's name (obviously! :rolleyes:)

I called up ESB to confirm he had an account this morning, which they confirmed for me.

So, she lied to us.

Following this, I text her this morning to ask her for the landlord's name, number and address. She hasn't replied as of yet (six hours later).

I managed to get my landlord's number by making contact with the landlord of the house next door. He passed me on the details and I have them in front of me now ...

I'm planning on talking to the other person in the house so we can decide together what to do.

I'm hoping that by tonight, we'll have made contact with the landlord together to enquire out whether our rent has been paid and to inform him of the situation with the bill.

I'd like to thank everyone for their help and advice so far. It's really appreciated

Fingers crossed by tonight, It'll be sorted or on the way to being sorted. If nothing's been changed by the weekend, I'll be moving out.

GET OUT NOW, RIGHT NOW.

You have been played.

She lied about the ESB and she is stalling about the landlord.
BTW can't see an ESB bill being only €20 a month but she is still lying about account holder.
They probably will have the to cop on to realise you might check with ESB and because they know that you are trying to contact the landlord then I would say they are about to leg it right about now.

They are lying through their teeth and they know the game is almost up.
Thus I would say firstly make sure that your belonging are safe.
Anything of value you have get it out of there now.

Find somewhere else to live.

I would say forget the idea of landlord coming to save you and your colleague and sorting out this mess.
The landlord will firstly be looking for someone to cover the bills and when they leg it who is going to be the ones left in the house ?

Maybe you aren't even supposed to be there ?
How many rooms in house ?
Maybe he let the house to just the couple ?

It won't be sorted without some pain for the ones left, i.e. you the tenants and/or the landlord.

Life is too short, forget this is perfect house for you and all that mullarkey.

PopUp

jmayo wrote: »

The landlord will firstly be looking for someone to cover the bills and when they leg it who is going to be the ones left in the house ?

Seriously this is exactly what I thought.

Good luck Pika.

janet28

sounds like a nightmare situation. I would speak to the landlord & explain. But I would also pack my bags & look for a different place to live. When I started renting the lack of lease was normal in a houseshare. But the key person collected the rent & collected bill money when it was due. There was never any issue. When the house was sold & rebought, there was a new lease drawn up with exisiting tenants but I was able to move out as soon as I found another person to move in. Their deposit was then passed on to me. This situation sounds v bizarre & in my opinion u should leg it asap.

Magenta

jmayo wrote: »

GET OUT NOW, RIGHT NOW.

You have been played.

She lied about the ESB and she is stalling about the landlord.
BTW can't see an ESB bill being only €20 a month but she is still lying about account holder.
They probably will have the to cop on to realise you might check with ESB and because they know that you are trying to contact the landlord then I would say they are about to leg it right about now.

They are lying through their teeth and they know the game is almost up.
Thus I would say firstly make sure that your belonging are safe.
Anything of value you have get it out of there now.

Find somewhere else to live.

I would say forget the idea of landlord coming to save you and your colleague and sorting out this mess.
The landlord will firstly be looking for someone to cover the bills and when they leg it who is going to be the ones left in the house ?

Maybe you aren't even supposed to be there ?
How many rooms in house ?
Maybe he let the house to just the couple ?

It won't be sorted without some pain for the ones left, i.e. you the tenants and/or the landlord.

Life is too short, forget this is perfect house for you and all that mullarkey.

This is the best advice you are going to get.
I don't know why you're even bothering trying to contact the landlord. Just get the hell out of there.

the_syco

The landlord will like an honest tenant like yourself. And will pass the bill over to you, when they leave.

All five hundred of it.

And you'll have to pay it back by yourself, as you won't be able to charge any new tenants the amount.

Or you can get the f**k out whilst you can, without any notice. Your choice.

I'm thinking: you give notice, and they'll be gone before you.

mylittlepony

No update yet, hope she left.
Better safe than sorry.

pikachucheeks

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your help. Loads of updates for you!

The landlord came around the other night to meet with me and the other girl. We showed him the bill and he said he was going to sort it. He took details of the bill down etc.
The other tenant and myself also explained that unless the bills were sorted, we weren't taking any accounts up in our names, and we weren't going to sign leases.

He then called a house meeting on Sunday and asked us all to be there. Basically, he's outlined a lease for me and the other girl to read and sign, for us to be the key tenants in the house. He asked the key tenant about the bills which he said he was going to work out.
If they haven't been worked out, I'm just going to call the landlord to inform him they haven't kept the promise and refuse to sign anything or have accounts transferred to my name until they've been paid.

I would move out, as everyone's been suggesting but they're going to be gone in a few weeks, the landlord knows what's going on and they won't be getting away with it.

I know moving out would stop all this hassle, but I feel fine about it now because the landlord knows about the situation, he's sorting it himself, as agreed, and the bills are in the key tenants name.

The_Conductor

Hi Pikachucheeks-

Is there a good enough reason other than the rent for staying there?
How long do you intend to stay there (aka- are you willing to sign a lease which ties you into the property for a set period of time- which could include the summer months- when you might want to travelling or something).
Are you aware that a lease and any terms in it, are in addition to any rights or obligations under the Residential Tenancies Act- so- for example- you decide you only want to stay until June- but its a 1 year lease- you are legally obliged to pay the rent for the term of the lease- irrespective of how much notice you give.

Why do you or would you want to be a 'Key Tenant' (whatever this is- as it has no legal basis). It sounds like its a mechanism for the landlord to get a number of people to sign a formal lease- as this will safeguard his interests- however whats in it for you? Why should you sign it? Are you agreeing to recruit a number of other house occupants- and if so- what is your responsibility towards them? Are you putting household and utility bills in your name- and if so what are the implications of this? Have you had an ESB bill in your name previously? Are you aware of the deposit involved and the mechanisms for reclaiming this deposit after a year?

Ok- the place was cheap- but the long run cost could be a whole string of headaches for you.

To me it sounds like the landlord is accommodating the old 'Key tenant'- these new arrangements appear to allow him to exit from the property and any obligations he may have in a graceful manner.

If you are insistent on staying there- I would seriously suggest having someone who is very familiar with leases go over your proposed lease in detail- before you sign anything.

You need to ensure that you are safeguarding your own interests- becoming a 'Key-tenant' and signing a lease- are taking on a whole load of legal obligations- that for a student, simply don't make sense, cheap rent notwithstanding.

Don't sign anything until you have had it checked by someone familiar with leases and contract law. Even the accommodation officer in the SU would be helpful- but given the mess with bills ets- I'd be inclined to plead with someone familiar with leases for some urgent help.

Shane

Magenta

OP I have no idea why you are putting yourself through this. There is no shortage of cheap places to rent.