Baptismal Certs: Manditory or No?

Glenster

axer wrote: »

You failed to accept that some if not many schools choose catholics over non-catholics when accepting children into a school even though those schools are publicly funded. Instead you choose to say that the children did not get in because "Maybe your kids are just stupid. or unathletic. or skobes.".

I just (insensitively) suggested that as a theoretical possibility, automatically assuming that your child doesn't get in because of their denomination, or primarily because of their denomination flies in the face of my experience of schools, experience which is, like everyone's here, limited.

Ickle Magoo

Glenster wrote: »

Schools that are over subscribed have to pick and choose. Perhaps you think it should be done by proximity, I can see where you're coming from, it must be difficult if you live in the country.

Coming from someone who has lived near the city center and who currently lives in a commuter town I would say that most parents do not want a random collection of pupils in a school. That's one of the reasons my sister and I were/are being sent to private school, my little brother got into the nicest local school, but it has got a bit rough recently and my parents are talking about pulling him out and sending him to boarding school.

Well, I come from a country with a fantastic state education system and they work in catchment areas, or priority is given to pupils in specific catchment areas, so having a mix of pupils faiths/abilities/whatever is what I'm used to. I don't think it's appropriate for a state funded school to pick pupils according to ability or faith. All parents pay taxes to fund these schools, why should someone who's child has learning difficulties or from a different faith or culture and so require a greater pool of the resources in the way of a classroom assistant or supervision or the like be punishable by an elitist school board - it's a terrible system, so bad it actually contravenes human rights legislation!

We don't take tax payers money and discriminate against those wanting hospital treatment or library cards based on faith, why something as important as primary education should still be using such an archaic system is just shameful.

Glenster wrote: »

Clearly I cant talk to your experiences and I wouldn't try to.

You did mention earlier on that the school would have to make arrangements for your kids during religion class, presumably then you insisted that your kids not attend religion class (Obviously I might be assuming incorrectly). That is entirely your perogative, but it does make things more expensive and logisticaly more difficult for the local school, a school undoubtably expecting further budget cuts in the future.
Perhaps you demanding different treatment for your kids is how you dont fit in with the ethos of the local school.

I don't demand anything from a particular school, I ask their protocol. Stop with the assumptions, it's getting tiresome. Tbh I'm getting fed up of explaining this to boardsies who are theists and, laughably, usually RC & so have no issue and having been brought up immersed in the system can't understand why anyone else would find it completely 1920's bonkers.

We are taking about a state funded school, an average run of the mill primary school funded by me & others like me. My child shouldn't have to go to specific religious classes applicable only to a percentage of the pupils, there should never be cause for my child to have to be segregated from their friends and miss class time. If I had to move house, where would my kids go to school? So despite our family paying a heck of a lot in taxes, I either have the choice of my kids tagging along with a faith our family doesn't hold or being segregated and playing with lego when they should be working because 90+% of schools only cater for one faith and teach things that parents should be doing in their own time?! That's crazy.

It's completely unacceptable that the state funded primary education system in Ireland is able to discriminate against children either during admissions or during class time based on parental faith, or lack of - thankfully most see that & that is why the system is changing.

Glenster

Dades wrote: »

Again, until you or I (okay maybe not you!) experience it all evidence will be anecdotal - but that's just the situation.

It'll be anecdotal even if we do experience it. It'll be one of our anecdotes.

I would again make the point that my little sister wasn't asked for her baptismal cert until after she'd been accepted, and wasn't asked about her denomination while she was applying, and I wasn't asked for my baptismal cert until they needed it for my confirmation (dunno if they asked about my denomination when I was applying).

So if the question is are baptismal certs they mandatory in all faith schools, the answer is no. I doubt they are mandatory in any school (what with muslims and that)

If the question is do schools discriminate based on religion (or lack thereof) my experience is that they don't.

If the question is can they, the answer is yes, and they can discriminate based on the look or criminal record of the parent, based on where the child lives (locationism), based on how much money the parents have, based on all sorts of things. Life.

Ickle Magoo

Frankly, you'd have to be a bit of scobe not to acknowledge the well documented issues surrounding the Irish education system...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/1217/1224260833016.html

http://www.amnesty.ie/amnesty/live/irish/education/default.asp?page=3693&rec=20&pos=1

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL2441042620070524

http://www.crin.org/resources/InfoDetail.asp?ID=5301

http://www.iheu.org/node/3230

Just a few of the millions of articles...

Dades

Glenster wrote: »

If the question is do schools discriminate based on religion (or lack thereof) my experience is that they don't.

That's fine (though you did say your experience was with secondary, right?) though other people have, anecdotally, experienced it.

Glenster wrote: »

If the question is can they, the answer is yes, and they can discriminate based on the look or criminal record of the parent, based on where the child lives (locationism), based on how much money the parents have, based on all sorts of things. Life.

The only thing they can legally discriminate based on is religion. And suggesting that discrimination is a part of life doesn't really cut it.

Glenster

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I don't think it's appropriate for a state funded school to pick pupils according to ability or faith. All parents pay taxes to fund these schools

Not only parents, we all pay taxes for schools. We'd all like special attention for our kids (particularly our theorectical ones), we'd all like the curriculum to be tailored specificaly to our needs, but it's not, it cant be. If a religious nut wanted their kid to be taken out of science class every day or a rascist wanted their kid pulled out of French class every day and it cost my kids in equipment and supervision, you're damn right I would object to the school board, anyone would.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I don't demand anything from a particular school, I ask their protocol.

Really? Good. Why then were you talking about your kid being segregated from the rest of the class during religion class? It's not standard policy to remove children for religion class based on faith (or lack thereof [this is exausting]).

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

My child shouldn't have to go to specific religious classes applicable only to a percentage of the pupils

So do you ask that they not?

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

It's completely unacceptable that the state funded primary education system in Ireland is able to discriminate against children either during admissions or during class time based on parental faith, or lack of - thankfully most see that & that is why the system is changing.

The state funded university system is allowed to discriminate against students based on academics.

The partially state funded university systems of the US and the UK (the two world leaders) are allowed to discriminate against students based on all sorts of things, that's one of the reasons they are the best.

Of course that refers to 18 year olds, it doesnt have the same emotive pull as "my 5 year old is being discriminated against"

Ickle Magoo

Glenster wrote: »

Not only parents, we all pay taxes for schools. We'd all like special attention for our kids (particularly our theorectical ones), we'd all like the curriculum to be tailored specificaly to our needs, but it's not, it cant be. If a religious nut wanted their kid to be taken out of science class every day or a rascist wanted their kid pulled out of French class every day and it cost my kids in equipment and supervision, you're damn right I would object to the school board, anyone would.

This is the crux of the issue. Theists think that secularising schools is all kids going along and doing confirmation classes. What the rest of the world consider secular is a school that accepts everyone regardless of their colour, faith or culture & places no emphasis on a particular ethos.

Glenster wrote: »

Really? Good. Why then were you talking about your kid being segregated from the rest of the class during religion class? It's not standard policy to remove children for religion class based on faith (or lack thereof [this is exausting]).

Because that was the stated protocol, it IS standard policy to segregate kids in some schools, can you see the issue yet?

Glenster wrote: »

So do you ask that they not?

We got places at the ET so thankfully I didn't have to ask anything specific to my kids, I just asked general protocols.

Glenster wrote: »

The state funded university system is allowed to discriminate against students based on academics.

The partially state funded university systems of the US and the UK (the two world leaders) are allowed to discriminate against students based on all sorts of things, that's one of the reasons they are the best.

Of course that refers to 18 year olds, it doesnt have the same emotive pull as "my 5 year old is being discriminated against"

And last time I looked, 18 yr olds don't have a constitutional right to a masters, talk about a strawman!

Glenster

I changed schools in 6th class, so technically it was a primary school I was applying to. And then again in 6th year.

Can schools not discriminate based on location as well? Am I mad for thinking that? And the interview, which I know my parents had when applying to primary school for my little sister, is just an excuse to assess the parents, are they committed to schooling, are they clean, are they wearing tracksuits, can they speak fluent english? Stuff like that.

And discrimination is a nessesary part of life, that's how you get into a job, that's how you find a partner.

Unfair discrimination is bad, and if they're doing that they're bad too, not allowing non catholics in because you dont like non catholics is wrong, but if it's for a budgetary reason, or the parents seem like the trouble-making kind I can understand where the schools are coming from.

Glenster

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Because that was the stated protocol, it IS standard policy to segregate kids in some schools, can you see the issue yet?

No it's not, not unless the parents ask for it, which you said you didn't do.
My friend is a primary school teacher and says she teaches religion to everybody, regardless of creed. They are seperated for the 1 day of preperation for communion at the church, but that's it.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

And last time I looked, 18 yr olds don't have a constitutional right to a masters, talk about a strawman!

*Shakes head*

Children have a constitutional right to an education, not a constitutional right to an education in whatever school they want, was the point I was clearly making.

Glenster

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Frankly, you'd have to be a bit of scobe not to acknowledge the well documented issues surrounding the Irish education system.

He implied that I was a skobe! Call the authorities!

Seriously though do you not know what skobe means? It's like a rough person, like how D4ers used to refer to northsiders back in the late 90's.

Dades

Glenster wrote: »

Unfair discrimination is bad, and if they're doing that they're bad too, not allowing non catholics in because you dont like non catholics is wrong, but if it's for a budgetary reason, or the parents seem like the trouble-making kind I can understand where the schools are coming from.

Location should be the deciding factor in determining who gets into state schools. If I applied to a school 5 miles away when there are 2 other schools closer, then I'd have no issue if the first choice school was full of local kids. We just don't want to be dropped down a list because the local bishop doesn't want our lack of belief in the school we're paying for.

Glenster wrote: »

Children have a constitutional right to an education, not a constitutional right to an education in whatever school they want, was the point I was clearly making.

That rather disingenuous, as it is hardly what is being requested here.

PoleStar

Here is an interesting viewpoint (not original Im afraid, it comes from Dawkins).

There is no such thing as a Christian child or a Muslim child, merely a child with Christian (or Muslim) parents. A child of 4 years of age will have no real concept of what religion means.

Consider this, children under the age of 16 are not allowed to have sexual intercours, are not allowed to consent (or refuse) medical treatments in hospital. Those under 18 are not allowed to vote, drink alcohol and smoke.

How is it then that a child can have a label applied, by their parents, and that this label should have an influence on what school they go to.

I am aware that under the age of 16, the parents are the legal guardians. However, the child would have no concept of religion, and thus how can a child be discriminated against based on a label applied?

Perhaps we need a smart adult who cant get their "atheist" child into a catholic school to take a case on behalf of their child, arguing that the child cannot take that decision as to their religion given their young age! The parent could argue that it is not their position to a apply a religious label to their child as they wish for the child to decide themselves.

Ickle Magoo

Glenster wrote: »

No it's not, not unless the parents ask for it, which you said you didn't do.
My friend is a primary school teacher and says she teaches religion to everybody, regardless of creed. They are seperated for the 1 day of preperation for communion at the church, but that's it.

I hate to break it to you but neither teaching nor school protocol begins & ends with "your friend"...

Glenster wrote: »

*Shakes head*

Children have a constitutional right to an education, not a constitutional right to an education in whatever school they want, was the point I was clearly making.

No one is asking for carte blanche to pick schools, why are you having such difficulty grasping this, they are suggesting that state funded schools should no longer have legal carte blanche to give preference to children of one particular faith, whether that be when doling out places or deciding curriculum.

Glenster wrote: »

He implied that I was a skobe! Call the authorities!

Seriously though do you not know what skobe means? It's like a rough person, like how D4ers used to refer to northsiders back in the late 90's.

I guessed from the other words in the sentence what you were trying to infer. I'm not Irish, why would I know/need to know/ever want to know some quaint D4 colloquialism from the 90's?!

MementoMori

If it ever came down to it, I'd have no qualms with providing a forged baptismal cert to any school that looked for.

If any one got annoyed about it, I'd simply ask for foregiveness later, saying I had the best interest of the child in mind.

Utter disgrace that an organisation that is best known for it's abuse of children, has such an influence on education in Ireland.

Ickle Magoo

Glenster wrote: »

but if it's for a budgetary reason, or the parents seem like the trouble-making kind I can understand where the schools are coming from.

Schools paid for by tax payers money should have no right to cherry pick pupils, if they want to be snobbish or elite, they can ask the parents to fork out for full costs of their school. As long as schools are getting the majority of their funding from joe bloggs, then all the little joe bloggs jrs should have an equal chance of attending their local school.

anti-venom

robindch wrote: »

As donegalfella says, you'll find a baptismal certificate helpful when you're trying to get your kid into one of the schools controlled by the Vatican, and in this country around 92% of them are. Luckily, there are a few schools -- mostly around Dublin -- that admit kids based upon the order in which they applied (the "Educate Toschools), but the waiting list for all of them is quite long, so get your (future) kids name down early if you want a chance to get them in. If you apply to get into a school controlled by the Vatican, then the school board is legally permitted to allow the kids of more conformist people than you to skip past your position in the queue.

Outside of that, your birth certificate is the most important document you need and that's something that the government will give you, not the church. In general, anything the church provides you with has the same legal authority as a membership card for your local video shop.gether"

That said, if you bring your kid to hospital, you will be asked "what religion" he or she is. I don't understand what relevance this has to medical treatment and would be interested to hear any theories.

It's entirely do do with pastoral care. If you have stated on admission to hospital that you are of a particular religion then, in the event that pastororal care is called for, the staff will know who to call, be it a rabbi, Imam, priest etc. Apart from this the hospital doesn't (shouldn't) particularly care what religion if any the patient is and it's of no relevence to their care plan. Off course, an an atheist, you could insist that no clerics are needed.

Glenster

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I hate to break it to you but neither teaching nor school protocol begins & ends with "your friend"...

I was merely giving you the input of someone who works in the school system, and actually knows what the 'protocols' are. Dont question her answers (or existance) just because they're not what you thought they were.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

No one is asking for carte blanche to pick schools, why are you having such difficulty grasping this, they are suggesting that state funded schools should no longer have legal carte blanche to give preference to children of one particular faith, whether that be when doling out places or deciding curriculum.

We're talking about shoulds are we? Everyone should have everything they desire. But they dont.
I was saying that schools care about other things far more than religion. I think I mentioned earlier on that prejudice based solely on faith is wrong. No-one is going to argue about that.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I guessed from the other words in the sentence what you were trying to infer. I'm not Irish, why would I know/need to know/ever want to know some quaint D4 colloquialism from the 90's?!

1.It's an awesome word. From an awesome decade. To the max.

2. If it meant the same as the other words i wouldn't have used it. Tautology, innit?

3.I was just trying to save you the embarrassment of using a slang word incorrectly, the most unhip thing a person can do.

Glenster

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Schools paid for by tax payers money should have no right to cherry pick pupils, if they want to be snobbish or elite, they can ask the parents to fork out for full costs of their school. As long as schools are getting the majority of their funding from joe bloggs, then all the little joe bloggs jrs should have an equal chance of attending their local school.

Again maybe we're from two different worlds, I've always had plenty of schools to choose from. Distance was never really an issue for me. There were loads of schools around that I didn't go to 'cos they were no good, I tok a twenty minute bus drive to school every morning, and my brother who goes to public school doesn't go to his nearest school, his nearest and best school about ten minutes away.

If local country schools are refusing local kids places, and the alternative is miles away, that's out of order. Is it happening? I dont know, you'd expect it to be on the joe duffy show a lot more if it were.

cypharius

No, you don't need a baptismal cert, you might if it's for a catholic school, but for the love of raptor-jesus don't send your child to a catholic school.

People seem to have this crazy idea that catholic schools are reasonable today, well only 4 years ago I was in catholic primary, and I can tell you that indoctrination is still on the agenda.

I was first told about hell in primary school... do you want your child exposed to that? Or how about some Half-naked Jewish guy with schitzofrenia nailed to a plank of wood shown in pictures and statues throughout the school? That seem like a healthy environment for a young child?

Ickle Magoo

Glenster wrote: »

If local country schools are refusing local kids places, and the alternative is miles away, that's out of order. Is it happening? I dont know, you'd expect it to be on the joe duffy show a lot more if it were.

Well, again, I can only offer anecdotes from various friends around the country and from what I've read on parenting forums...

I would hazard a guess that if faith schools were offering everyone all the wanted then ET schools wouldn't exist, and neither would all the groups of parents around the country currently fighting for funding to get a local ET school, no?

Ickle Magoo

Glenster wrote: »

I was merely giving you the input of someone who works in the school system, and actually knows what the 'protocols' are. Dont question her answers (or existance) just because they're not what you thought they were.

It's just one person in one school that you are claiming something about Vs what I have spoken in person to a school about - who is questioning who?! Lol.

Glenster wrote: »

We're talking about shoulds are we? Everyone should have everything they desire. But they dont.
I was saying that schools care about other things far more than religion. I think I mentioned earlier on that prejudice based solely on faith is wrong. No-one is going to argue about that.

You have consistently stated that schools have the right to pick and choose pupils and that you thought it was more likely that they were refusing entry based on academic, athletic or monitory reasons than faith. If you'd said the above, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Glenster wrote: »

I was just trying to save you the embarrassment of using a slang word incorrectly, the most unhip thing a person can do.

Unhip? The most unhip thing a person can do is say unhip, surely?

And if posts come across as ignorant and uneducated & posters clearly not well travelled outside their own wee enclave can it be said that they were posted by a skobe?

Glenster wrote: »

Again maybe we're from two different worlds, I've always had plenty of schools to choose from. Distance was never really an issue for me. There were loads of schools around that I didn't go to 'cos they were no good, I tok a twenty minute bus drive to school every morning, and my brother who goes to public school doesn't go to his nearest school, his nearest and best school about ten minutes away.

Well, clearly we're from different worlds because my parents just had a wide choice of secular schools to send me to.

LostinKildare

I Googled "primary school baptismal cert" for pages in Ireland and from just the first few pages, came up with this sample of national schools that require birth certs:

St. Mary’s Primary School, Dungarvan
“PLEASE ATTACH (a) BIRTH CERT __ (b) BAPTISMAL CERT __. (It is imperative that these are given to the school)”
http://www.stmarysdungarvan.ie/index_files/Enrolment Form.PDF


Scoil Mochua, Celbridge
“An original birth certificate, baptismal certificate, child’s PPS no. and a recent utility bill (eg. ESB or landline telephone) are required with the application.”
http://www.scoilmochua.com/Parents/parents-enrolment.html

St Mary’s Primary School, Edenderry
“A Child should be enrolled by a parent or legal guardian. Enrolment for Junior Infants will take place in January over the period of a week. Parents will be required to present their child and the following documentation:
- Birth Certificate for legal purposes
- Baptismal Certificate for church purposes”
http://stmpse.com/documents/pdf/Enrolment Policy.pdf

Adamstown National School, Gorey
"If you have child starting school in Adamstown National School in September 2010, please call to the school for an enrolment form or phone to have one posted out to you. A Baptismal Certificate is required."
http://www.goreyguardian.ie/local-notes/adamstown-2089805.html

St Joseph's Primary School, Gorey
"If you intend enrolling your son in St Joseph's Primary School, Gorey for September 2008, application forms are now available from the school. We will also require your son's Baptismal Certificate and any relevant assessments and reports."
http://www.enniscorthyguardian.ie/news/se-road-club-1344948.html

Renmore, Galway
“A specific enrolment application form will be provided by the Board of Management and the following information will be sought:
· Pupil’s name, address, date of birth. . . .<SNIP>
· Religion and Baptismal Cert.”
http://www.renmoreschool.com/policies/enrolment.pdf

In 2004 the former education secretary to the Archbishop of Dublin sent a memo saying that where there was over-subscription in schools, only Catholic students should be allowed in. (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/parents-give-false-address-in-bid-to-get-school-entry-41159.html)

That same quick Google search turned up these schools that advertise their discriminatory practices in allocating school places to Catholics over non-Catholics. Your tax dollars at work!

St. Anne’s Primary School, Navan.
“In allocating places priority is given to Roman Catholics.”
http://www.stannesnavan.ie/downloads/st anne's enrolment policy 2010.pdf

St Vincent’s Primary School, Glasnevin
“The criteria for deciding on acceptance or refusal of applications, where the number of applicants exceeds the number of places available, is set down below in an open, transparent and fair manner.
The Diocesan enrolment policy for primary schools is as follows;
1 Brothers of boys already enrolled in the school.
2 Catholic children of the parish including Catholic children of the Travelling Community resident in the parish.
3 Catholic children who do not have a Catholic school within their boundaries.
4 Any child who presents for a place.”
http://www.vincentsprimary.com/admissions__policy.html

Balscadden Primary School, Balbriggan
“Children will be offered a place in Junior Infants on the basis of priority following the admittance policy outlined below.
1. Those children who already have or had brothers or sisters in the school. Those children whose parent is a teacher in the school. {If the number of these children exceeds the number of places available then places will be allocated on the basis of age.
2. Those Catholic children who reside in Balscadden including Flemington, Flemington Park, Tubbersool, Tubbertown, Knocknagin - (combined). {If the number of these children exceeds the number of places available, then places will be allocated on the basis of age.}
3. Those Catholic children who reside in Ring Commons, Dermotstown, Delahasey, The Matt, Balrickard, Balgee, Knockbrack, Kitchenstown, East Curragh, Killougher, Hazardstown, Haystown, Whitestown, Reynoldstown, Balgaddy, Grangemount, Grougha Lane, Newtown -(combined). {If the number of these children exceeds the number of places available, then places will be allocated on the basis of age.}
4. Those children either of whose parents has formerly been a pupil at Balscadden Primary School. {If the number of these children exceeds the number of places available, then places will be allocated on the basis of age.}
5. Those Catholic children who reside in New Haven, Dún Saithne, Mount Rochford, Hamlet Close - (combined). {If the number of these children exceeds the number of places available, then places will be allocated on the basis of age.}
6. All children who live within the parish boundaries and are Catholic applying for a placement are entitled to a place if there are vacancies after the groups from (1) to (5) have been allocated places. {If the number of these children exceeds the number of places available, then places will be allocated on the basis of age.}
7. All children who live within the parish boundaries and are non Catholic applying for a placement are entitled to a place if there are vacancies after the groups from (1) to (6) have been allocated places. {If the number of these children exceeds the number of places available, then places will be allocated on the basis of age.}
http://balscadden.com/Enrolment.htm

St. Canice’s Boys School, Finglas
“The school caters for:
1. Brothers of boys in the school and brothers of girls in St Canice’s Girls’ School
2. Catholic boys of the parish including boys of the Travelling Community resident within the parish.
3. Catholic boys who live outside the parish and do not have a catholic school in their parish.
4. All children who live within the parish boundaries but are not Catholic applying for a place are entitled to a place if there are vacancies after the groups from (1) to (3) have been allocated places.”
http://www.stcanices.com/enrolment policy 11.03.09[1].pdf

Scoil Diarmada, Castledermot
“Our Enrolment policy is as follows:
Places will be offered to:
1. Catholic children of the Parish of Castledermot.
2. Catholic children who do not have a Catholic school in their own area.
3. Brothers and sisters of children in this school.
4. Children of staff members.
5. All children who live within the Parish boundaries but are not Catholic applying for a place are entitled to a place if there are vacancies after groups 1-4 have been allocated places.
<snip>
All applicants are to complete the application form and to submit it with a birth certificate and a baptismal certificate.”
http://diarmada.scoilnet.ie/blog/2010/03/16/enrolment-policy/

Lusk National School, Lusk Dublin
“Parents should supply an original Birth/Adoption, Baptismal Certificate and a copy of a household utility bill with their application form.
In the event of the number of children seeking enrolment in any given class/standard exceeding the number of places available the following criteria, in the order set out, will be used to prioritise children for enrolment:
1 Children, who were unsuccessful above in their application the previous year, will be given priority in accordance with (a-f) above. This will not apply to children who have started in another school.
2 Siblings (including step-siblings resident at the same address) who have reached the age of 5 years prior to the 1st March of the year of enrolment.
3 All other applicants living within the parish shall be considered according to age and to the Roman Catholic ethos of Lusk N.S.. - priority to the oldest within this group.
4. Children of current Lusk N.S. staff will be accepted in accordance with (a-f) in order to maintain the stability of the school environment.
All children who live within the parish boundaries but are not Roman Catholic applying for a placement are entitled to a place if there are vacancies after the groups from 1,2,3 and 4 have been allocated places.”
http://www.lusknationalschool.org/enrolment.html

Scoil Mhuire Fatima, Drogheda
“In the event of the number of children seeking enrolment in any given class/standard exceeding the number of places available preceding or during the school year (due to the Board of Management being unable to provide suitable accommodation, or recruit the required teaching staff) the following criteria will be used to prioritise children for enrolment:
i. Catholic children of the parish, including children of Travelling Community resident within parish.
ii. Sisters of children in the school.
iii. Catholic children who live outside the parish and do not have a Catholic school in their parish.
iv. All children who live within the parish boundaries but are not Catholic applying for a placement are entitled to a place if there are vacancies after the groups from (i) to (iii) have been allocated places.”
http://scoilfatima.ie/sites/home.html

St. Mary’s National School, Malin Head
“In the event of the number of children seeking enrolment in any given class exceeding the number of places available preceding or during the school year (due to the B.O.M. being unable to provide suitable accommodation, or recruit the required teaching staff), the following criteria will be used to prioritise children for enrolment:
brothers and sisters (including step-siblings, residents at the same address) of children already enrolled – priority to the oldest;
children from Catholic families;
children of inter-denominational marriages where one parent is Catholic;
children of current school staff, priority to the oldest;
children whose home address is closest the school, if the child is normally resident outside the parish/agreed catchment area”
http://malinheadns.com/enrolment.html


St. Patrick's Girls' National School, Foxrock
"In the event that applications for enrolment exceed available places, applicant children will be enrolled strictly in accordance with the following criteria and in the following order:
a. Catholic girls who are resident in the Parish of Our Lady of Perpetual Succour,
Foxrock.
b. Girls who have a sister at school in St. Patrick's Girls National School
c. Girls who have a brother in St. Patrick's Boys National School
d. Daughters of Staff of St. Patrick's Girls' National School

And the following on a 'First come, first served' basis:
e. Daughters of past pupils of the school
f. Other girls living within the parish boundary
g. Other girls living outside the parish boundary."
http://hollyparkgns.ie/Photos_StartingSchool/Hollypark GNS Enrolment Policy.pdf

Lest you think that the Protestant schools are any better:

St. Matthew’s National School, Sandymount Dublin
Children are admitted to the school under the following criteria:
1. All applicants for Junior Infants must have attained their 4th birthday by September 1st in the year of admission. Preference will be given to older children.
2. Children of Church of Ireland denomination.
3. Children of other Protestant denominations.
4. Brothers / sisters of existing or past pupils.
5. The remaining places are allocated at the discretion of the Board of Management, bearing in mind the requirements of the Education Act 1998 and other legal requirements Applications will not be considered without a copy of your child’s Birth Certificate and, in the case of those claiming priority on religious grounds, proof of religious denomination (eg. Baptismal Certificate).
http://www.stmatts.ie/documents/Application Form Web.pdf

irishconvert

PoleStar wrote: »

Here is an interesting viewpoint (not original Im afraid, it comes from Dawkins).

There is no such thing as a Christian child or a Muslim child, merely a child with Christian (or Muslim) parents. A child of 4 years of age will have no real concept of what religion means.

Consider this, children under the age of 16 are not allowed to have sexual intercours, are not allowed to consent (or refuse) medical treatments in hospital. Those under 18 are not allowed to vote, drink alcohol and smoke.

How is it then that a child can have a label applied, by their parents, and that this label should have an influence on what school they go to.
.

Are you saying a child under the age of 18 is unable to decide for themselves if they believe (or disbelieve) in the religion of the parents?

Dades

irishconvert wrote: »

Are you saying a child under the age of 18 is unable to decide for themselves if they believe (or disbelieve) in the religion of the parents?

Kids can decide what they believe at any age, but maybe their "beliefs" shouldn't be given any status until they reach the age when they might be allowed think for themselves?