Iran Attack Imminent?

Brown Bomber

According to PressTV CIA director Leon Panetta travelled to Israel to discuss Iran nuclear capabilities with his Mossad counterparts.
http://iraq-war.ru/article/216926
Another report from Presstv claims two Israeli warships have passed through the Suez Canal with Egyptian assistance destined for the Persian Gulf. These ships are only days away.
http://iraq-war.ru/article/216926

Assuming its true (without attacking presstv) how do people think this will play out? How far could it escalate?

mysterious

Let's break this up.

Iran from the NWO.


I ran from the NWO (now)

Now lets get to basics here. If USA has nucs, why should Iran disarm? Oh and just for the record, USA has lied about WMDs, whats to say they are not lieing about Iran nucs.

Come on people... This is just silly.

Brown Bomber

mysterious wrote: »

Let's break this up.

Iran from the NWO.


I ran from the NWO (now)

Now lets get to basics here. If USA has nucs, why should Iran disarm? Oh and just for the record, USA has lied about WMDs, whats to say they are not lieing about Iran nucs.

Come on people... This is just silly.

I agree with ye Mysterious. Just 1 point though, Iran doesn't have any nuclear weapons. They are signatories to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty - which entites them to peaceful use of nuclear power. Unlike their aggressors Israel, who refused to sign the treaty limiting the spread of nuclear weapons and actually has an arsenal of nuclear weapons.

mysterious

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I agree with ye Mysterious. Just 1 point though, Iran doesn't have any nuclear weapons. They are signatories to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty - which entites them to peaceful use of nuclear power. Unlike their aggressors Israel, who refused to sign the treaty limiting the spread of nuclear weapons and actually has an arsenal of nuclear weapons.

Everyone knows that (and i hope everyone on here too;))

Its just really really silly. I've dicussed this when I was 18 on forums years ago. Its really getting old. Infact I'm beginning to question is this real or science fiction.

Who says USA has the right to tell any country what to do, when it has used the bomb and invaded 80 countries since WW1. No individual nation should ever impose rules on another especially when it isn't fit or capable of applying the rules to itself.

All countries should be removed of nuclear weapons, or all have them there is no in betweenism bull****. That is the way of it, and there is just no tmie for more bull**** on this game as far I'm concerned. This is sadistic, old and just pointless. It's almost like a comic sketch when I even hear the US leaders and elites using judgments in a self dis illusioned authority of who and what other country should do with it's nation. It's just not acceptable. To put this into context, is it ok for me to come to your house and tell you not have a kitchen full of electronics?

If any point comes from this, it may help other people to wake up, to the corruption,lies, greed and deception that is going on within the power system. Its time we wake the **** up already with this. Its the same game as with the Iraq and Afghanistan tactic. "this evil threat out to get us"

Most people now understand the reason 9/11 happened and why this false flag was operated for. Its simple basic understanding of the games that are been played and always have been played. The people who try to block this out in some way out of their perception of reality are doing it because they cant come to terms with a power system lieing to them this much.

Truthrevolution

The propoganda machine now being used to demonise Ahmadinejad bears an uncanny resemblance to the 2002 WMD build up which demonised sadam and subsequently led to the invasion of Iraq.We all know how that saga ended.But my question now is will we learn from our previous mistakes or will history just repeat itself with the masses going along with a mainstream media backed illegal war....

sdanseo

Two Israeili warships aren't going to take on Iran. You'd want a few battle fleets.

Theory demolished.

uprising2

sdonn wrote: »

Two Israeili warships aren't going to take on Iran. You'd want a few battle fleets.

Theory demolished.

Ohhh God, nobody is saying Israel is going to use only 2 ships, although these 2 ships could take out 20 Iranian cities depending on what type of weapons they may be carrying.
But is it a movement towards an attack?, very well could be, I'm almost sure Israel may also have an airforce.

namloc1980

So Israel publicly moves 2 warships through the Suez canal, according to presstv. Right! What's the conspiracy here exactly? Potential Israeli action against one of it's sworn enemies is hardly the stuff of secret/conspiracy.

Mahatma coat

Two Israeili warships aren't going to take on Iran. You'd want a few battle fleets.

Theory demolished.

Only one of those ships has to Sink for Israel to Claim the Highground and escalate attacks Ala The Tonkin Incident.

major bill

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Only one of those ships has to Sink for Israel to Claim the Highground and escalate attacks Ala The Tonkin Incident.

exactly false flag operation!!!

Mahatma coat

interestingly tho I cant find any sort of independent verification of this from other news sites, YET. Anyone got anymore info, like the names of the Ships or anything???

dubbeat

I'm in no way racist or anti semetic.... but in all seriousness, F**K Israel.

With the irony of Israel ethinically cleansing Gaza aside ,if theres a country that will use a nuclear weapon on somebody it'll be the US or Israel. Theyre justification will be "God told me I could do it"

Irishboy29

The USA have to attack Iran, They need the oil..Simples.

Yitzhak Rabin

dubbeat wrote: »

I'm in no way racist or anti semetic.... but in all seriousness, F**K Israel.

Not according to the the European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia.

With the irony of Israel ethinically cleansing Gaza aside, if theres a country that will use a nuclear weapon on somebody it'll be the US or Israel. Theyre justification will be "God told me I could do it"

EUMC also discussed ways in which attacking Israel could be antisemitic, e.g.

• Denying the Jewish people the right to self-determination, e.g. by claiming that the existence of a state of Israel is a racist endeavor;
• Applying double standards by requiring of Israel a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation;
• Using the symbols and images associated with classic anti-Semitism (e.g. claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis;
• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis;
• Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the State of Israel.
• accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group

The situation in Gaza, is nothing like "ethnic cleansing". Comparing what is happening there now to what happened in concentration camps is anti-semitic as it completely trivialises the holocaust. Criticizing Israeli policy is justifiable and completely reasonable, but what the f*ck is people's obsession with comparing them to the nazi's?

I probably will not make any more responses on this thread, as I already got one thread on the subject derailed locked. Anyone can feel free to PM me as to why I support alot(but not all) of Israel's actions, and ill be happy to discuss.

Brown Bomber

LOL. Are people really going to allow the EU tell them how to think?

Here is a definition of ethnic cleansing and genocide. Both of which clearly happen to the Palestinians.

"the planned deliberate removal from a specific territory, persons of a particular ethnic group, by force or intimidation, in order to render that area ethnically homogenous."

Yep

"Genocide is the "intentional murder of part or all of a particular ethnic, religious, or national group." "

And thats 2 out of 2 for Israel!!!!

I agree not to go off topic further though.

Undergod

yekahs wrote: »

N
EUMC also discussed ways in which attacking Israel could be antisemitic, e.g.

• Denying the Jewish people the right to self-determination, e.g. by claiming that the existence of a state of Israel is a racist endeavor;
• Applying double standards by requiring of Israel a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation;
• Using the symbols and images associated with classic anti-Semitism (e.g. claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis;
• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis;
• Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the State of Israel.
• accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group

Those last two are very reasonable I think.

mysterious wrote: »

Let's break this up.

Iran from the NWO.


I ran from the NWO (now)

What does this mean?

Feownah

Brown Bomber wrote: »

According to PressTV CIA director Leon Panetta travelled to Israel to discuss Iran nuclear capabilities with his Mossad counterparts.
http://iraq-war.ru/article/216926
Another report from Presstv claims two Israeli warships have passed through the Suez Canal with Egyptian assistance destined for the Persian Gulf. These ships are only days away.
http://iraq-war.ru/article/216926

Assuming its true (without attacking presstv) how do people think this will play out? How far could it escalate?

I think you always have to be subjective and cautious where PressTV are concerned, after all they are a state run media outlet that obviously control media reports that favours the government stance / propaganda. Now I also think you should be subjective and cautions with news organisations such as Jerusalem Post and Fox News! !

I think an attack on Iran if not imminent, it is very much likely to happen at some stage in the not so distant future, this has been building up a long time. Interesting to read articles that appear under a dedicated section called the 'Iranian Threat' on Jerusalem Post website http://www.jpost.com/IranianThreat/Home.aspx
i doubt mr.ahmadinejad is the most post popular man to the jewish state considering he has previously stated that Israel must be "wiped off the map".

mysterious

Irishboy29 wrote: »

The USA have to attack Iran, They need the oil..Simples.

Everything is not about oil:rolleyes: Thats again mainstream thinking. Its much more in depth than oil. I tend to avoid the generics of we need to go to war and get oil. America/UK invade countries for all sorts of reason's,
1.for power and control,
2.hegomy.
3 to keep other superpowers and enemies at bay
4. ancient artefacts and technolgy,
5. location,
6. profiting
7 to leep fear and division,
8. then its is all sorts of reasons such as gas, oil, natural rescources

To put all these points into one term. I would call it human corruption and greed. It's what I want, and I will do anything in my power to take your power and get what I want snydrome.

Iran is centrally located between The ME and the Sub Indian continent and Russia. Iran is also the home of the Great Babylonian empire and even pre ice age civilzations. There has been a lot of UFO activity here last year also;) Now thats another debate for other reasons.:D It has all sorts of natural mineral wealth, it also on the geo vortex leyline power grid Now thats an interesting subject hehe.

But seriously all one has to do is pay a little more attention to these conflicts and you will see a lot more than the mainstream view thinking of things.

Iran is one of the last major powerful countries thats not controlled by the NWO.

People believe everything our leaders tell us about all these countries. "the axis of evil" Good christ its why I turned off the T.V 2 years ago. The Media has already been pawned for lieing so many times about this Iran propaganda.

mysterious

Undergod wrote: »

Those last two are very reasonable I think.




What does this mean?

IRAN, running from the NWO:p

I-RAN, Just broke the word up, seems pretty coincidental. NWO is like NOW just the w is a twist.

Yitzhak Rabin

mysterious wrote: »

seems pretty coincidental.

Yep, definitely just a coincidence.

Undergod

mysterious wrote: »

IRAN, running from the NWO:p

I-RAN, Just broke the word up, seems pretty coincidental. NWO is like NOW just the w is a twist.

What.

Are you serious?

Where are you even getting the initial phrase "Iran from the NWO" from? It doesn't even make sense. This doesn't even work in any other language.

Coincidental is literally what it is.

Black Swan

Iran will develop nukes and delivery systems... it's just a matter of time (Just like nearby Pakistan and India). The US will not attack Iran, but that does not rule out a preemptive strike by Israel should their right to exist be threatened.

The American public has become exhausted by the two wars that have lasted for years. The two-war cost thus far has been estimated at one trillion USD and still rising. These military-industrial complex war expenditures have not mitigated the impact of the current Great Recession. Obama is under increasing pressure to set and stick by time lines to withdraw the troops, and it is occurring in Iraq, although there's a buildup in Afghanistan. Obama could lose his reelection bid in 2012 if one or both of these two wars have not ended.

uprising2

Israeli warships cross Suez Canal
Arab media reported that two Israeli warships crossed the Suez Canal on their way to the Red Sea this weekend.
http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2010/02/israeli-warships-cross-suez-canal.html

Report: Israeli warships cross the canal of the Arabian Gulf
Passed yesterday, Thursday, from the Suez Canal Vanguards Israeli warships on their way to the Gulf region coming from the Israeli port of Haifa, according to shipping sources.
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/5174801-report-israeli-warships-cross-the-canal-of-the-arabian-gulf

Very well could be a media blackout, then bay of Tonkin, followed by mushroom cloud.

mysterious

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Iran will develop nukes and delivery systems... it's just a matter of time (Just like nearby Pakistan and India). The US will not attack Iran, but that does not rule out a preemptive strike by Israel should their right to exist be threatened.

The American public has become exhausted by the two wars that have lasted for years. The two-war cost thus far has been estimated at one trillion USD and still rising. These military-industrial complex war expenditures have not mitigated the impact of the current Great Recession. Obama is under increasing pressure to set and stick by time lines to withdraw the troops, and it is occurring in Iraq, although there's a buildup in Afghanistan. Obama could lose his reelection bid in 2012 if one or both of these two wars have not ended.

'
USA has profited from it. I mean seriously... If war's were to exhausting they wouldn't have gone and campaigned for these wars. Do you not see the basic reasons as to why these politicians want us to go to war in the first place? It's all power and control. If this were to exhausting, then it must of been a waste of time for Rome to conquer the world then too. The American public maybe exhausted, but the American people still keep lapping up to the propaganda and goes over to fight these illegal wars they really don't know the actual reasons in fighting for. Its so scary to me. I don't see Obama or Bush going to war. So funny when you think about how people just blindly believe these leaders to fight these wars, and yet the talker never actually goes and fight the wars he wants to fight. LOL..

The only real exhaustion I see was American soldiers constantly getting killed for this. They are brainwashed to be killing machines unfortunately over there. You should see the simple chants they are told to say. :eek:

War is one of the best ways to make money and gain power. It's why the powers of go to war. Simple really.


The American media have been drilling the American people about the Iran war since Bush was in office. It was on the agenda way back when Bush first sat in office. But as you know the American people need to be manipulated into this war, by false flag operations that happened in 9/11. We are not fighting for our freedom we are fighting for these illusional borders that powers of be own. So when a leaders tells us to fight for this country, they really" mean fight for my country"

It's history repeating all over again, and I can't believe today in 2010 are still falling for this.:rolleyes:

mysterious

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Iran will develop nukes and delivery systems... it's just a matter of time (Just like nearby Pakistan and India). The US will not attack Iran, but that does not rule out a preemptive strike by Israel should their right to exist be threatened.

Said who?

And your point is? And so what if it's a matter of time. There is nothing in that post is anything new or surprising and also its the same nonsense I hear over and over in the past, partly because what you just said is typical of whats drilled by the mainstream media and Washington....:rolleyes:

You do realise the very wording of "Iran wil have nucs and it's only a matter of time" is the most repeated sentence by the USA government and media since they invaded Iraq. This is now 2010 and that proganda started in 2002. It's old.

This brainwashing is worse than a disney movie. Why can't people see the whole stupidity of all this propaganda.

(SCREAMS)

squod

mysterious wrote: »

.......Why can't people see the .......stupidity of all this propaganda.

I'm misquoting you (sorry) but that's such an important point to make. It's bad enough that I can no longer read a newspaper etc. Even the way this bloke has phrased the words & spaces, looks like an advertisement.

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Iran will develop nukes and delivery systems... it's just a matter of time

Hurry, hurry, hurry it's just a matter of time.

mysterious

I have to be in the same boat at that point on the media craze Squod, I can't read newspapers anymore, because every headline, is nothing but constant fear and gripe as a way to keep us all stuck in the padrigrim of control and fear. Nearly everything on the mainstream media has become so pityful. To the point, that you can't even depend on the weather for trustful information. I've outsmated this game a long time ago. My frustration is why people are still givng this whoe game more attention.

The Iran propaganda doesnt even get on other conspiracy forums anymore. Its laughable. You begin to see more tactics to try scare the masses, "oh they have a bomb guys" lets get them... etc.

The only way to deal with this is put it over your head. Why because they cant go to wars unless we go and fight them:D

"WAR ON TERROR" Is not used anymore, they figured that is not effective.

the new one
IN Order to have peace and prsoperity we need TO DISMANTLE, DISRUPT AND DEFEAT THE TERRORIST

major bill

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8150916.stm



news report from july so wouldnt say its imminent

uprising2

US raises stakes on Iran by sending in ships and missiles
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/31/iran-nuclear-us-missiles-gulf

Yitzhak Rabin

I would say, that there is definitely merit to this theory, and with good reason.

All you have to do is look at the timeline of the Iranian nuclear program and their insistence of not allowing int'l inspectors monitor it to see what is going on.

Regardless of what you think of Israel, Iran having nukes is a seriously scary prospect. Israel has shown time again that when threatned it has no problem in launching pre-emptive strikes. So when a country whose leader wants to "wipe them from the pages of history" and is developing nukes what do you think their reaction will be?

Obama has tried his best to have a diplomatic solution, but Ahdmedinijad(sp) has rebuked him at every turn. Diplomacy is failing.

Maybe I've been spending too much time here, but does anyone else think the unrest in Iran is a US covert op to try and oust ahdmendinijad and get someone a bit less extreme in power? and thus calm the Israelis and prevent a ****storm in the middle east?

namloc1980

yekahs wrote: »

I would say, that there is definitely merit to this theory, and with good reason.

All you have to do is look at the timeline of the Iranian nuclear program and their insistence of not allowing int'l inspectors monitor it to see what is going on.

Regardless of what you think of Israel, Iran having nukes is a seriously scary prospect. Israel has shown time again that when threatned it has no problem in launching pre-emptive strikes. So when a country whose leader wants to "wipe them from the pages of history" and is developing nukes what do you think their reaction will be?

Obama has tried his best to have a diplomatic solution, but Ahdmedinijad(sp) has rebuked him at every turn. Diplomacy is failing.

Maybe I've been spending too much time here, but does anyone else think the unrest in Iran is a US covert op to try and oust ahdmendinijad and get someone a bit less extreme in power? and thus calm the Israelis and prevent a ****storm in the middle east?

The real power in Iran is in the Ayatollah and the Guardian Council. Ahmadinejad is nothing more than a puppet of the religious leadership in Iran. If the US really wanted to oust the Iranian leadership they would be targeting the Ayatollah and not Ahmadinejad. But targeting the religious and spiritual leader of Iran could brew up a massive reaction in the Muslim world. This all appears to be posturing from all sides and it is unlikely that the US will want to get embroiled in yet another unwinable war in a muslim country.

Yitzhak Rabin

namloc1980 wrote: »

The real power in Iran is in the Ayatollah and the Guardian Council. Ahmadinejad is nothing more than a puppet of the religious leadership in Iran. If the US really wanted to oust the Iranian leadership they would be targeting the Ayatollah and not Ahmadinejad. But targeting the religious and spiritual leader of Iran could brew up a massive reaction in the Muslim world. This all appears to be posturing from all sides and it is unlikely that the US will want to get embroiled in yet another unwinable war in a muslim country.

I agree, they're fairly well stuck between a rock and a hard place.

If they do nothing, it almost seems inevitable, that Israel and Iran will end up in a war. Most likely by a terrified Israel launching pre-emptive air strikes on Irans nuclear enrichment sites.

Thats why I suspect that the current people revolution that is occuring their could have been funded, or at least influenced by a CIA op. If they could somehow make it seem that the people rose up and ousted al Khameinei, and a more western friendly democracy arose then the Israelis could stop sh*tting their pants and a war would be overted.

namloc1980

yekahs wrote: »

I agree, they're fairly well stuck between a rock and a hard place.

If they do nothing, it almost seems inevitable, that Israel and Iran will end up in a war. Most likely by a terrified Israel launching pre-emptive air strikes on Irans nuclear enrichment sites.

Thats why I suspect that the current people revolution that is occuring their could have been funded, or at least influenced by a CIA op. If they could somehow make it seem that the people rose up and ousted al Khameinei, and a more western friendly democracy arose then the Israelis could stop sh*tting their pants and a war would be overted.

Yeah. From what I can see a likely scenario if the Iranians continue down the enrichment route is a pre-emptive Israeli strike on some/all of Iran's nuclear facilities. There will be alot of huffing and sabre ratting from Iran but they won't be able to do much about it. They wouldn't be able to wage an air campaign against Israel because they would have to overfly Iraq (controlled by US air force) or Turkey (a NATO member) or Saudi Arabia (where the US military have a strong presence). And Iran's ballistic missile capability is unproven. Iran would however most likely increase their funding to Hezbollah and wage some sort of guerrilla war through them in Lebanon.

fontanalis

namloc1980 wrote: »

Yeah. From what I can see a likely scenario if the Iranians continue down the enrichment route is a pre-emptive Israeli strike on some/all of Iran's nuclear facilities. There will be alot of huffing and sabre ratting from Iran but they won't be able to do much about it. They wouldn't be able to wage an air campaign against Israel because they would have to overfly Iraq (controlled by US air force) or Turkey (a NATO member) or Saudi Arabia (where the US military have a strong presence). And Iran's ballistic missile capability is unproven. Iran would however most likely increase their funding to Hezbollah and wage some sort of guerrilla war through them in Lebanon.

Would an Iran attack on US troops in Iraq if they were attacked by Israel be likely?

namloc1980

fontanalis wrote: »

Would an Iran attack on US troops in Iraq if they were attacked by Israel be likely?

It's possible but there would be nothing to gain for Iran by drawing the US onto them by attacking them first. What would be likely though is the Iranians sending some covert units across the border and using guerrilla style tactics in Iraq (there is suggestions that they have done this already) but I couldn't see the Iranians challenging the US in a conventional open war.

fontanalis

namloc1980 wrote: »

It's possible but there would be nothing to gain for Iran by drawing the US onto them by attacking them first. What would be likely though is the Iranians sending some covert units across the border and using guerrilla style tactics in Iraq (there is suggestions that they have done this already) but I couldn't see the Iranians challenging the US in a conventional open war.

Fair point but if they attack Israel they are already baiting the US in a round about way.

namloc1980

fontanalis wrote: »

Fair point but if they attack Israel they are already baiting the US in a round about way.

I doubt Iran will attack Israel (not openly anyway). The most likely first attack will come from Israel on Iran's nuclear facilities in a pre-emptive strike - similar to what they did in 1981 when they attacked Iraq's nuclear facilities in Osirak or in 2007 when they struck suspected nuclear facility in Syria.

fontanalis

namloc1980 wrote: »

I doubt Iran will attack Israel (not openly anyway). The most likely first attack will come from Israel on Iran's nuclear facilities in a pre-emptive strike - similar to what they did in 1981 when they attacked Iraq's nuclear facilities in Osirak.

But they'd retaliate, if not directly then indirectly and any attack after Israels first strike owuld eb seen as Irans work.
My head hurts thinking about it.

namloc1980

fontanalis wrote: »

But they'd retaliate, if not directly then indirectly and any attack after Israels first strike owuld eb seen as Irans work.
My head hurts thinking about it.

I'm not sure they could do much to Israel. Iran couldn't launch an effective air campaign against Israel because they would have to fly through US controlled airspace in Iraq. Plus I would bet the Israeli airforce would wipe the floor with the Iranian equivalent. No doubt though Iran would launch some sort of guerrilla campaign through Hezbollah (or equivalent) against Israel.

Truthrevolution

Iran will not make the first move, Isreal along with the US are going to strike first

mysterious

yekahs wrote: »

I would say, that there is definitely merit to this theory, and with good reason.

All you have to do is look at the timeline of the Iranian nuclear program and their insistence of not allowing int'l inspectors monitor it to see what is going on.

Regardless of what you think of Israel, Iran having nukes is a seriously scary prospect. Israel has shown time again that when threatned it has no problem in launching pre-emptive strikes. So when a country whose leader wants to "wipe them from the pages of history" and is developing nukes what do you think their reaction will be?

Thats a blatant lie, and was cot out in the propaganda machine a long time ago, You really shouldn't be buying into that crap. Why because Alhamindinejad, made a public statement to the world and many UN meeting that is NOT what he said. Now people can actually then question your motives here. It has already been dicussed on this forum last year.

So why are you too, bringing this dis info up. hmmm. I'd like an answer to that.


Iran has absaloutley no benifet in going to war with Israel. Simply because if it were too, USA and Israel would turn the country into another Iraq. Iran is a democratic nation that has the right to make its own laws and regulations for its country. It might not be joyous and wonderful for you and I. But quite frankly it's none of our business.

Please, just please stop trying to kid us here. This is blatant power games at best. The sick thing here is, The lies are even bigger than the whole Iraq scandal.

War is not acceptable. It's so ironic that you seem to think Iran is so threatening, when Israel and the USA haven't stopped threatening Iran on false information and lies. They have no actual proof of everything they say, just like Iraq.

The game here is, America and israel want ME domination. They would be happy to have mcdonalds outlets built all over the country and wipe out all the ancient cities and cultures that make what Iran is today.

So if your going to talk debate this, can you please try not to make false claims abuot Iran especially when they have been already debunked all over the mainstream news including here last year.

Obama has tried his best to have a diplomatic solution, but Ahdmedinijad(sp) has rebuked him at every turn. Diplomacy is failing.

Obama only says what hes supposed to say. Give me a break dude.

Maybe I've been spending too much time here, but does anyone else think the unrest in Iran is a US covert op to try and oust ahdmendinijad and get someone a bit less extreme in power? and thus calm the Israelis and prevent a ****storm in the middle east?

What unrest?

Why should Israel have nucs and Iran not?

Mahatma coat

thats the kewy point there Mysterious

Why should Israel have nucs and Iran not?

Why dont we work on Disarming Israel instead??


Also

Iran Attack Israel == Premeditated Act of War

Israel Attack Iran == Legitimate Preemptive Strike




Does the Hipocracy of the Pro Israel Side Sicken anyone else?????


Why dont we launch preemptive attack at the Weapons sites We KNOW Israel illegaly holds????

Mahatma coat

and Another thing


Show mw where Ahmidinijhad has displayed megalomaniacal Despodic tendencies

we had this discussion here a couple of years ago as well, Bonkey had a ver good line on it

Yitzhak Rabin

mysterious wrote: »

Thats a blatant lie, and was cot out in the propaganda machine a long time ago, You really shouldn't be buying into that crap. Why because Alhamindinejad, made a public statement to the world and many UN meeting that is NOT what he said.

There are two translations. The first is the "wipe from the map" one, then he clarified to say he meant "hoped its regime occupying Jerusalem, would collapse.". Thats essentially the same thing. He wants an end to the state of Israel. If you think he means this coming about by peaceful means, then you're the one "buying into crap".

Now people can actually then question your motives here. It has already been dicussed on this forum last year.
So why are you too, bringing this dis info up. hmmm. I'd like an answer to that.

As for my motives here? Mysterious, if you want to say something, then say it, and don't be thinly veiling your words

Iran has absaloutley no benifet in going to war with Israel. Simply because if it were too, USA and Israel would turn the country into another Iraq. Iran is a democratic nation that has the right to make its own laws and regulations for its country. It might not be joyous and wonderful for you and I. But quite frankly it's none of our business.

I agree with pretty much all of this.

Please, just please stop trying to kid us here. This is blatant power games at best. The sick thing here is, The lies are even bigger than the whole Iraq scandal.

Apart from Iran is trying to develop nukes. A theocracy having nukes does not sit easy with me.

War is not acceptable. It's so ironic that you seem to think Iran is so threatening, when Israel and the USA haven't stopped threatening Iran on false information and lies. They have no actual proof of everything they say, just like Iraq.

The game here is, America and israel want ME domination. They would be happy to have mcdonalds outlets built all over the country and wipe out all the ancient cities and cultures that make what Iran is today.

Half your statement is true. Yes the US would like to see further economic expansion of they're MNC's, they make no secret of this. However, destroy ancient civilisations? Evidence please?

What unrest?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_protests
All the protests against Ahdminejad's rule. Now I was the one who brought up the fact that this is extremely suspicious and that the western powers could be manipulating this to their advantage. Although I can't say I would be dissapointed if a more moderate secular government were in power in Iran as it would ease tensions between Israel and Iran exponentially.

Why should Israel have nucs and Iran not?

There is no good reason really, apart from it prevents nuclear war. One side has them, if the other gets them, it just ups the ante considerabily. I consider Iran to be the more unstable of the two. I'm willing to concede that others consider Israel to be the more radical, and they're good reasons for either side
Perhaps it is a bit of self protection. Israel has alot more in common with me as a western secularist than Iranian islamism.

Yitzhak Rabin

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Why dont we work on Disarming Israel instead??

Iran Attack Israel == Premeditated Act of War

Israel Attack Iran == Legitimate Preemptive Strike

I agree with you. We should. I condemn Israel for not signing up to the non-proliferation treaty.
I also agree with you that the language I use is slightly hypocritical. I just feel, that Israelis would be happy to live side by side with the arabs if they felt safe. It is because of this fear that leads to parties like Likud and Hamas being elected.
Israel is always potrayed as the agressor, and at the beginning it was. However, since 1947, its neighbours have directly and indirectly launched attacks against them. Israel has been no angel either, but I think their policies are more reactionary, hence why I call them pre-emtive.

Why dont we launch preemptive attack at the Weapons sites We KNOW Israel illegaly holds????

Because that would be suicide. The Israelis are not a timid bunch. The easier strategy is to prevent their enemies from arming themselves with nukes, an thus overtying nuclear war.

bonkey

mysterious wrote: »

Now people can actually then question your motives here.
...
So why are you too, bringing this dis info up. hmmm. I'd like an answer to that.

For the record, I don't consider questioning someone's motives as being part of civil discussion.

Its perfectly reasonable to point out that something has been disussed before. Its not reasonable to suggest dishonesty or ulterior motives because someone doesn't agree with the conclusions you or anyone else reached in said previous discussion.

And please...make no mistake...asking what motives someone has is saying that their motives are questionable, and thus might be dishonest.

Mahatma coat

my head hurts wit the wrongness of the last few posts befpre bonkey, who has clarified the constrints of debate here, I'm off ta bed.
what do you think Ahmidinijad might anounce tomorrow???????

mysterious

Mahatma coat wrote: »

my head hurts wit the wrongness of the last few posts befpre bonkey, who has clarified the constrints of debate here, I'm off ta bed.
what do you think Ahmidinijad might anounce tomorrow???????

I agree with you Mahatma, you can't make a wrong a right no matter how you twist it around. This biase and false judgement is the same as the constant west imposement of the east and other poorer countries. Which to be quite frank, is imoral, arrogant and incompetent. The arrogance of USA and Israel towards other countries is totally barbaric and unacceptable, and for the sake of this argument, it's laughable that people are still point blank defending this as if it were "Ok" and justifiable by any means necessary for these two countries to behave this way. Yet the same people on here defend it and are very quick to go on the Iran offense.


Not really smart....

Bonkey as your for your statement on questioning someones motives. We are in a debate where someone makes a false statement that has already been debunked and corrected. If one continues to drag up malicious stories that are not true, it's only natural for others to question why they are doing it.


Wrong is wrong, and people in this debate are not going to sideline the false premise of a story.

"The Iran wants to wipe Israel of the map" is malicious lies and has already been dicussed here last year as Mahatma had already said. Why bring up a lie that has already been proven false.

I find it concerning. I haven't actually questioned his motives yet. But at least i'm making awareness of my own feelings on the matter.

Truthrevolution

yekahs wrote: »

I agree with you. We should. I condemn Israel for not signing up to the non-proliferation treaty.
I also agree with you that the language I use is slightly hypocritical. I just feel, that Israelis would be happy to live side by side with the arabs if they felt safe. It is because of this fear that leads to parties like Likud and Hamas being elected.
Israel is always potrayed as the agressor, and at the beginning it was. However, since 1947, its neighbours have directly and indirectly launched attacks against them. Israel has been no angel either, but I think their policies are more reactionary, hence why I call them pre-emtive.

Even Mainstream Reuters may disagree with you on that one, stating here that Isreal is imposing "crippling sanctions" on Iran

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LDE6181A8.htm

Yitzhak Rabin

Truthrevolution wrote: »

Even Mainstream Reuters may disagree with you on that one, stating here that Isreal is imposing "crippling sanctions" on Iran

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LDE6181A8.htm

What exactly about what I said is contradicted in that article. Of course Israel is going to call for crippling sanctions. As I said their policy is reactionary, and I imagine it is in reaction to this

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/world/middleeast/09iran.html?scp=2&sq=iran%20nuclear%20&st=cse

Late Monday in Vienna, the International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed that it had received a letter from Iran declaring its intent to begin enriching uranium up to 20 percent. The agency’s statement gave no date for starting the enrichment, though Tehran said that might come as early as Tuesday.
...
Even in Russia, which along with China has consistently resisted sanctions against Iran, there were calls for stronger action against Tehran. Konstantin I. Kosachyov, the head of the foreign affairs committee in the lower house of the Russian Parliament, was quoted by the Interfax news agency as urging the international community to prepare “serious measures.”

Truthrevolution

yekahs wrote: »

What exactly about what I said is contradicted in that article. Of course Israel is going to call for crippling sanctions. As I said their policy is reactionary, and I imagine it is in reaction to this

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/world/middleeast/09iran.html?scp=2&sq=iran%20nuclear%20&st=cse

[/i]

I pointed that article out to you as you seem to be under the illusion that Isreal is some sort of peacekeeper saving us from the big bad wolf that is Iran.Cant you see the blatant propoganda and scaremongering here.The US and Isreal are backing Ahmadinejad into a corner with very dangerous consequences, bullying the president of a country with potential lethal weaponary at its disposal till they get a reaction.Take a look at this article, its got the CIA/Mossads fingerprints all over it

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=adSAa4KI2yCY&pos=8