Working bringing in fas workers

oppiuy

Not sure if this is the right forum for this.

We have recently taken pay cuts 0f upto 7% and now the company are negotiating with them on further cuts and redundancies. But the company is pushing ahead with a program with fas where the train and work along side us in from what i can see instead of us soon while being paid by the state.

Is this legal? The union is cwu and we would be outsourced staff so you can prob guess they dont really give a stuff. But if this goes ahead sure every company could sack its staff and get free workers from Fas

we'llallhavetea_old

you're just training them though...

TheZohanS

Moved to Work Problems.

oppiuy

2 week induction then they work away. We have a few already but today 40 started. Ive no problem until current staff lose pay and their jobs, its free labour in the company's eyes

IrishManSaipan

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

you're just training them though...

Thats what the Dell workers were told too.........;)

oppiuy

Surely its wrong thou..Its great for the company.free labour, but we're all ****ed and expected to take pay cuts. the union are rubbish. Any advised please as there is a meeting planned for during the week and i want to stand up speak and make some sense

biko

This is what the union is for, to make sure that the workers rights are respected. If the company can get away with something they'll try for it.
Are yous all in the union?

mood

Don't think it is legal. Read the defination below by Citizens Info. They sound like they are replacing 'redundancy' staff with these free workers so totally illegal.

I would go to all the local and national papers with this, all the radio and tv stations. Have the company named and shamed. You should all also hound local councilors and TDs. This is not on and will only increase the rate of unemployment. It sound like a large business (factory maybe) so it is likely you will get a lot of attention. If the union rep can't or won't help ring the head office and go above there hear. They are not doing there job at all.

www.citizensinformation.ie - redundancy:

Where you lose your job in Ireland due to circumstances such as the closure of the business or a reduction in the number of staff this is known as redundancy. Generally a redundancy situation arises if your job ceases to exist and you are not replaced. The reasoning for the redundancy situation could be the financial position of the firm, lack of work, reorganisation within the firm or it may be closing down completely.

jimoc

According to the guidelines linked on http://www.fas.ie/en/WPP/Provider.htm an employer cannot participate in the WPP program if they have made people redundant and replace them with WPP employees.

loctite

jimoc wrote: »

According to the guidelines linked on http://www.fas.ie/en/WPP/Provider.htm an employer cannot participate in the WPP program if they have made people redundant and replace them with WPP employees.

But does it say that you cannot make a worker redundant post the WPP?
Reading the OP's threads, there doesn't seem to have been any redundancies yet??? and what if the redundancies are voluntary?
I think the WPP is a scandal anyway..... Some of those workers won't be receiving any payment to work!! I have visions of Ireland's workforce's future being something from 1948 where we all go around worshiping big brother and living on social welfare.

As far as I know they will all be on relatively short term contracts. 6 months. I thought there were only 2-3,000 of these WPP's being offered nationally?
40 for one company seems a lot?

jimoc

loctite wrote: »

But does it say that you cannot make a worker redundant post the WPP?
Reading the OP's threads, there doesn't seem to have been any redundancies yet??? and what if the redundancies are voluntary?
I think the WPP is a scandal anyway..... Some of those workers won't be receiving any payment to work!! I have visions of Ireland's workforce's future being something from 1948 where we all go around worshiping big brother and living on social welfare.

As far as I know they will all be on relatively short term contracts. 6 months. I thought there were only 2-3,000 of these WPP's being offered nationally?
40 for one company seems a lot?

40 is definitely ilegal considering the guidelines :

Number of Employees Number of WPP Placements
1-10 employees 1 Place
11-20 employees 2 Places
21-30 employees 3 Places
30 + employees 10% of their workforce to a maximum of 25 places

If a company is employing 40 WPP workers then they are doing so illegally and should be reported.

As well as this Part C of the guidelines has the following :

b) The placement will not be provided to displace an existing employee

I would advise the OP find out for sure if these workers are being hired as part of the WPP or if they are there as part of some other FAS programme.

Magenta

There's another thread about this here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055795040

I think it's terrible that people are being exploited like this.

Guell72

This was always going to happen with the WPP program.
It will be abused a lot.
My company has brought some WPP people in and there is no doubt that they will be replacing the people already in those jobs.
Ive been told to train them up to do the jobs of the guys there already. These have now been told to take pay cuts. With free replacements, who will most likely take the job on reduced wages at the end of the free term you can see what the plan is.

oppiuy

Hi guys since i posted this thread we were supposed to find out what the company was planning regarding a cost reduction program that was to include voluntary leave, sabbaticals wage reductions and compulsory redundancies.. I wrote to the union and expressed my concerns. They replied with a statement from the company to say that compulsory redundancies as a last resort but were pushing ahead with the others and that wage or hour reductions were still on the agenda.

the way i see it is that if they cut hours and employee these guys, they are effective taking up the loss in output( for free) and surely this is illegal.

I work for an outsource company and our union is affiliated with the employer via a share scheme so they have an agenda. Ill push them as far as i can without threatening my own position and let you know how its goes. Thanks for the replies

mood

OP check this out.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055827924

the_syco

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

you're just training them though...

Holy fúcking christ. Are you really that niave? As someone has said: look at Dell.

oppiuy

OK so update on this situation.

In a different department 23 people have been made redundant until July and 23 Fas "workers" have been brought into our department for "training".

And we have been asked to take an hour cut of 2.5 per week while these guys are here. Met management and the union on Friday who said it had been accepted without consultation with any worker.

I pressed them on 2 things. why let these folk go when they could have moved departments?
why are we still taking these people in who are effectively working. Union basically laughed and said its just giving others an opportunity. And they weren't effecting hours, pay or productivity.

I asked what happens next if some people don't agree to the hour reductions and my reply was that they weren't sure but that it would probably happen anyway. Ive refused and I'm happy to push them as far as i can on this. I know from other threads and links to the citizens info page that they can make my position redundant, at this stage i cant really afford for that to happen but would be prepared to meet that end as i think i need to make a stand somewhere.

What im really looking for is maybe some advise on what to do next. I will be handing in the forms of acceptance tomorrow and will make sure they understand that i have not accepted the change and why.
I think i will probably need to clarify these reasons and make it clear they cannot change my terms of employment without my consent..

What do you think i should do or say.

the_syco

oppiuy wrote: »

In a different department 23 people have been made redundant until July

How do you mean "redundant until July"? Was that voluntary? And I wonder does FAS know that this happened? Sounds like your company is using the WPP scheme as a way to save money at the expense of your colleagues :mad:

mood

the_syco wrote: »

How do you mean "redundant until July"? Was that voluntary? And I wonder does FAS know that this happened? Sounds like your company is using the WPP scheme as a way to save money at the expense of your colleagues :mad:

FAS told me that they check that companies have not made people redundant within the last three months. So I agree report to FAS and see what happens.

oppiuy

In the process of writing to them today outlining what is happening. Ive read the terms that they look for and while it does state no redundencies withing 3 months but they have an OR options which states less than 5 %

Ill keep you posted as to there responce if any