Moon landing hoax

Dohnjoe

Indeed, here's the video of the grid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iginxrFn3jg&t=62s

Here's a site showing the experiments done in front of the grid

https://astroacademy.org.uk/

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121037240#Comment_121037240

These guys have got to be part of the conspiracy now too.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036385#Comment_121036385

The ISS is visible and there is documented proof of it from hundreds of thousands of observers. To suggest it is a drone is without basis given the height that it has been observed at.

To suggest we are completely reliant on NASA is a therefore a falsehood.

To suggest "anyone can fake those" similarly is without basis.

Your claims are completely lacking in credibility. Your objection to the moon landing is fundamentally based on your theory of space flight, that it is impossible.

It is a central point to your allegations against NASA and other organisations engaged in space flight, if we have established proof of their credibility on whether space flight is feasible, is in fact a routine operation for them.

If satellites and the ISS are real, then space flight is possible. It then becomes a question of the practicality of manned space flight to the moon.

It is therefore entirely relevant to point out that to believe your alternative theory, one must also believe that the ISS, satellites, all uses on earth relating to satellite technology are part of the conspiracy.

And therefore it is entirely valid to ask questions as to the motivation of multiple countries over a span of decades to engage in their charade with satellites and space flight. Entirely valid to ask why supposed enemies such as the USA and USSR during the Cold War would give their opponent a free pass even as it hurts their prestige eg the US with Sputnik, the USSR with American moon landing. Entirely valid to ask why further countries such as China and India would continue this charade.

But we don't get any such coherent credible answers.

NIMAN

You've got to wonder if those who back it all being one big conspiracy genuinely believe what they say, or are they just trolling for the craic?

Giblet

https://youtu.be/P_6my53IlxY?t=785

Oh no the green screen!

So now that's been disproven, very easily in fact, I guess it's time to go ahead and disregard all of that evidence right? Maybe even question the abilities and motives of anyone spreading that around as evidence and maybe move onto something else, seeing as it can be debunked trivially?

Nahhhhhhhhhhh

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121037389#Comment_121037389

In my experience it's a mix.

Some do it for the laugh, some do it to stick it to the "the skeptics" or science or whatever, some genuinely believe it, and some live in a bizarre world where they know it's false but they can't break character and keep pushing it - and everything in between.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121037376#Comment_121037376

These two videos prove that the ISS cannot possibly be a drone or other form of aircraft:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zApGNHOi0s

This one explains how the height and speed of the ISS can be measured.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OXg_E5cdWA

This one details more the logistical impossibilities of it.

o1s1n

There was a piece of incredible footage from Apollo 11 featured in 'Something Funny Happened on the way to the Moon' that I've never seen before.

Went digging for the footage itself and it's on youtube in it's entirety:

https://youtu.be/VrFFbyuQqt4?si=wqBvQqPXV27tViot

The most interesting parts are those of the astronauts trying to get a shot out the viewing port of earth.

Around the 30 minute mark you see the camera zoom out and what was once a closeup image of earth floating in space now has a light beside it, some movement in front of it, the lights then come on and you get to see the actual setup.

Now I can see how conspiracy theorists like Bart Sibrel saw this and immediately thought 'GOTCHA!'

But if you actually watch the video in full, you can see its just the astronauts trying out different filming techniques to get the best shot. They've the lights off because it's simply the best way to record earth in those conditions. At one point later in the video they're trying to figure out a way to get the camera to focus on one of their badges. Just seems like a difficult place to get a decent image. As I've mentioned before, there's no reason to jump to grand conspiracy claims when a mundane answer is far more likely.

They really go into a deep analysis of this video in 'Something funny..', at one point even saying that the movement you see in front of earth is them removing an apparatus to create the blurred terminator line in the earth shots - an absolutely amazing conclusion to jump to from a couple of shadows of movement (which are clearly just the astronaut moving in front of the viewing window, it would make sense that people would be moving around the cabin after the shots were taken).

They also state, as fact, that once the lights go up, you can actually see that earth is 'far bigger' out the viewing window in the background. No you can't, you can't see the window at all, it's just a blur.

It's all just incredibly disingenuous. The type of film that starts with a conclusion and then attempts to get 'facts' to fit the conclusion, speaking them with a ridiculous amount of conviction.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121037439#Comment_121037439

There's a ton of footage and audio from the various missions that never seem to end up in these kind of documentaries. Mostly they only just show edited clips to trick the audience. (A trait shared across all conspiracy media.)

There's some really funny incidents that a lot of people don't know about.

For example this one where the astronauts have a very serious discussion without realising they were on microphone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuv6TVv0r44

Or this one where the astronauts deal with an unknown flying object in the command module:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOsQbd8lDtg

Would love to know how these incidents fit into the conspiracy.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121037439#Comment_121037439

Ok so if it looks like they are faking something then it's a training video, gotcha 👍️

...but then they proceed to use this footage and claim it was halfway to the moon? Seems a little off.

Still no explanation for the other videos? Steering clear of the one with the guy clearly grabbing the harness during the somersault. Practice video too maybe?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036516#Comment_121036516

I am not confusing radar and GPS, even though they both exploit the earth's magnetic field. It is well known in aviation that they use Inertial Navigation Systems (i.e. gyros and dead reckoning) when over vast bodies of ocean. Why fall back on hundred years old technology over oceans when GPS satellites are buzzing all over the place?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121039087#Comment_121039087

I am not confusing radar and GPS, even though they both exploit the earth's magnetic field. It is well known in aviation that they use Inertial Navigation Systems (i.e. gyros and dead reckoning) when over vast bodies of ocean. Why fall back on hundred years old technology over oceans when GPS satellites are buzzing all over the place?

Planes primarily use GPS (also GNSS) over oceans and land. They also have backup GPS systems and other guidance systems.

GPS is done with satellites. You dispute the existence of satellites, which begs the question how does GPS work according to you?

Also, how does satellite TV work according to you. I can point my dish at the sky, change position, and lose signal, what's going on there?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121039087#Comment_121039087

Why fall back on hundred years old technology over oceans when GPS satellites are buzzing all over the place?

Let's pretend that your claim is actually true and planes don't use GPS over the ocean. (We have plenty of reason to doubt your word on this.)

Let's pretend that there isn't some reasonable explanation for it. (We've seen that this has been the case for every issue you have.)

Your question is framed to imply that if there's no explanation for this, it means that the GPS satellite explanation must be false.

This is tremendously contradictory given the many, many things that you have left unexplained about your theory.

If you're arguing that the satellite idea is false because people cannot provide you an explanation, then you must also accept that your whole premise is false because (to pick one example) you can't even explain why they would go to the bother of this deception in the first place.

robinph

@Marcus Antonius

I am not confusing radar and GPS, even though they both exploit the earth's magnetic field. It is well known in aviation that they use Inertial Navigation Systems (i.e. gyros and dead reckoning) when over vast bodies of ocean. Why fall back on hundred years old technology over oceans when GPS satellites are buzzing all over the place?

Yes, you absolutely are. GPS does not have dead zones over oceans, radar does. Show one source for your GPS claim.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121039610#Comment_121039610

Good grief. Do you actually think websites would allow publication of things like this on their platform or scientific journals allow publication of papers relating to "satellites not working over the ocean"? This would be like me asking you for scientific evidence that Putin ordered the killing of Prigozin.

It is all over the internet, people asking why doesn't GPS work over oceans - and it's the same bot answer: "GPS does work, aircraft just need other systems to confirm that the GPS is working" . What a load of BS. Here's one mind-numbing example:

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/2589/how-do-airliners-cross-the-ocean-without-gps

Here's a paper that discusses different systems that are necessary due to the "unreliability" of GPS:

https://engineering.purdue.edu/PPI/docs/aim_gps_waas.pdf

Reciever Autonomous Integrity Monitoring (RAIM) being one common system, designed purely to let the computer know when the GPS signal is lost and regained. Everyone knows commercial airlines are flown by computer. The flightpaths are programmed in based on previous data. Computer systems can only make estimates using Gyros as to how much they need to adjust their course due to wind or other environmental factors. All of this only necessary until they get within range of thier standard, ground-based navigation systems (ADS-B and MLAT (or GPS as you call it))

The SR71 Blackbird used a star tracking technology that could be used during the day. There is a huge amount of research now going into machine learning and AI to improve navigation. Why is all this necessary if GPS is so accessible as you say?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040748#Comment_121040748

Several contradictions here.

First you are adding hundreds more to the conspiracy by claiming that websites and scientific journals block publication of evidence.

Secondly you then contradict this statement by pointing to what you believe is evidence published to websites and journals.

Lastly, both of your links refer to satellites as if they exist, so in your worldview these sources are lying, therefore cannot be taken as reliable. The people who wrote these must also be part of the conspiracy.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040748#Comment_121040748

The first line of the first link you posted immediately contradicts you.

"Well, most airlines do cross the ocean with GPS in today's world."

The first line of your second link contradicts your position

". System Description. The Global Positioning System is a satellite-based radio navigation system, which broadcasts a signal that is used by receivers to determine precise position anywhere in the world."

According to you, considering you don't believe satellites exist, how does GPS work?

How does my satellite TV work?

sydthebeat

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/cox/2016/09/04/flying-over-oceans/89763912/#:~:text=Answer%3A%20GPS%20is%20the%20primary,blended%20position%20to%20the%20pilots.

Here is an airline pilot clearly going against his NDA and admitting that they use GPS over oceanic flights

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040748#Comment_121040748

Also please note that you were asked for a source that states that planes CANNOT use GPS over oceans and that there are "dead zones".

Neither of your links support or mention such an idea and contradict it entirely.

I think this demonstrates that there's nothing to support your claim of dead zones.

The links you provided and have been provided show that planes do indeed use GPS over the ocean. You are not able to explain this.

.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040748#Comment_121040748

Those are additional methods of determining the flight path, as you can never have enough backup systems. Nothing to even hint at GPS not working over oceans, just details of multiple ways to figure out your location.

If I'm going out on long hike in the mountains for a couple of days then I may have my route planned into my GPS watch or phone, but would also have backup compass and paper map and have told people where I'm planning on going. Using old technology like paper map and compass doesn't mean that GPS doesn't work, and telling people where I'm going and when to expect me back doesn't mean that telephones don't work. It's just having backup systems for if something fails.

robinph

The SR71 Blackbird used a star tracking technology that could be used during the day. There is a huge amount of research now going into machine learning and AI to improve navigation. Why is all this necessary if GPS is so accessible as you say?

I would expect that a warplane has backup systems in place for navigation in anticipation of ground based and satellites systems having been taken out by enemy actions so that they can still fly and respond as required. Seems pretty sensible for military aircraft, but does nothing to support your claim that GPS doesn't exist.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040884#Comment_121040884

Also if the planes designers and operators were aware that satellites don't exist and made design changes to accommodate this fact, then they are also a part of the conspiracy.

Also kinda ironic given that one of the reasons the SR71 fell out of use was the increasing number and effectiveness of spy satellites.

Giblet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121039087#Comment_121039087

Any comment on the fact you claimed the blue grid was actually used for CGI and background replacement, when it clearly wasn't? That the green ball was used for the "water droplets" when the video showing the green ball proves it was used just for the experiments shown? Why did you assume the green ball was used for CGI tracking? No proof of that, but you went there anyway? Maybe because you tend to fill in gaps in your knowledge with fanciful thinking right? No comment on this no?

Once you have commented why you were so sure this was used as a "green screen" even linking videos showing this, as proof. We can move on to the other topics. But please, let's not skip over this one until you have conceded that you were 100% wrong, and that all the evidence you brought with you was 100% wrong, and therefore the source is unreliable. No point in allowing you to hop between topics, just concede you were wrong.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040884#Comment_121040884

Point me to the post where I said GPS doesn't exist. I said it doesn't work using flying magical satellites. If my conspiracy theories are so unorthodox, then why do you persist on lying to bolster your position? In fact, if it's so out of the realms of reality then you don't need to be here at all defending anything.

Still waiting for the explanation for why the harness was grabbed during the somersault or how the CGI artist neglected to edit out the harness of the astronaut in the background. Not moving onto the bubbles in space or other CGI glitches until I'm satisfied with these.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041519#Comment_121041519

No. You claimed that GPS doesn't work over oceans because of blind spots.

This has been shown to be false and you've not been able to supply anything to support that claim.

You've not actually stated how GPS works in your world view or addressed any of the issues brought up with the idea that it doesn't use satellites.

We are still waiting for your explanation for a great many things.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041519#Comment_121041519

You have claimed that satellites don't exist. GPS stands for Global Positioning Satellites, therefore GPS as the rest of the world understand it doesn't exist in your world.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041519#Comment_121041519

These are your claims.

For example, you claim that satellites don't exist, okay, but that begs the immediate question as to how does GPS work? You haven't provided any satisfactory explanation, or any explanation for that matter.

You still haven't addressed any motive for all of this, why is the world spending billions sending all these highly expensive rockets and craft and satellites up into space if it's all fake? What's the reason?

Giblet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041519#Comment_121041519

There is no harness.. what is it connected to? Nothing there.. Anyway, go back to the green screen stuff, you were wrong about that weren't you?

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041656#Comment_121041656

Why do you persist on lying to bolster your arguments? Everyone knows GPS stands for Global Positioning System, much to your dismay I'm sure.

Your posting is falling below level DH4 of the forum charter pyramid, therefore I will no longer respond to any further posts from you.

________

Warning applied for backseat moderation

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041656#Comment_121041656

You made a mistake, so you're out :)

Get a date wrong, a name wrong, make a slip up and it means a) everything you've ever written or will ever write can be dismissed and b) the conspiracy, whatever it is, stands

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041844#Comment_121041844

But the claim you made was that there were "blind spots" in the system and that planes couldn't use the system over the ocean.

You presented articles that did not support this claim and you've yet to actually show that this is the case.

There's no lying needed to point out that this is a massive, massive issue for your position.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041844#Comment_121041844

Fair enough, minor slip up.

Now what do the lines around the earth represent in the thumbnail image you've just linked?

AndyBoBandy

Hi,

Amateur sailor here who uses GPS to navigate while out at sea. I have 2 GPS systems in my boat, 1 is a marine GPS system which displays position in Lat & Long, and also SOG (speed over ground), the other is an iPad (cellular)

When out at sea and miles from land in all directions, both system are still displaying my position to within 1 meter on the surface planet earth. (In a boat its important to know where you are, and be confident the data is accurate).

This could not be possible without satellites in orbit transmitting time data to GPS receivers on the planets surface.

So satellites exist, and thats no longer up for debate.

raspberrypi67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/64427756#Comment_64427756

Because it wasn't a Hoax....

don't even want to argue this but Moon rock samples don't just come back to earth on their own steam

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042101#Comment_121042101

A good while back one theory being proposed was that NASA was using a secret unmanned rover program to collect all of the samples.

This was abandoned when the person proposing it could not explain how NASA kept this massive, parallel project secret, and why they didn't then continue to use rovers far more advanced than anything in use today.

On the odd occasion that a solution for a problem in a conspiracy theory is suggested, it's usually very superficial: eg. "they just used unmanned space probes to collect the rocks". And these solutions always fall apart when you try to apply them to a real world situation.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042025#Comment_121042025

Astounding! I hold my hand up. I must yield to a clear master of the topic. Absolutely, you have ground this debate to a complete halt. Debate, as we all know, holds no place in science and I thank you for bringing us back to firm ground.

But before we do. If you are getting accuracy to within 1 meter, you clearly have an advanced piece of kit. Would have to be a differentially corrected GPS technology to get that level of accuracy - typically used by coast guards for navigating complex coastal areas and rivers and seems way out of the price range of an amateur sailor. Care to share the make and model? Wouldn't mind investing in this myself.

Also, my ADS-B/MLAT system can track aircraft over 150nm over land, and likely much further if I lived at the coast. Commercial radio trackers achieving much much further, over wide expanses of ocean. Care to share with us how many miles in all directions you've been away from land?

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042825#Comment_121042825

Would have to be a differentially corrected GPS technology to get that level of accuracy - typically used by coast guards for navigating complex coastal areas and rivers and seems way out of the price range of an amateur sailor.

Grand, so you agree that satellite based navigation is a thing, which therefore means orbital insertion flights (rockets to space) are also a thing that exists.

Glad we cleared that one up.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042875#Comment_121042875

Not willing to provide the GPS model or distance you were from all coasts?

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042910#Comment_121042910

Is it your view that marine GPS is really ground based?

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042910#Comment_121042910

MLR FX312

44nm from nearest land (on this particular trip), though have been further from land, much further.

But at least now we agree that satellite based navigation is a thing…….. we’ll get you there eventually.

Wait.... Are you also a flat earther? Because you know the curvature of the earth means you can have line of sight to an aircraft 100nm away, but not have line of sight to an object floating on the sea thats 20nm away right?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042960#Comment_121042960

The vast majority of believers in the idea that the moon landings were fake accept that spaceflight exists. Some even argue that it was partly faked in space.

Some however, specially recently believe that the landings were faked as part of a larger belief in a flat earth.

Several of the videos and sources that Markus has provided have been flat earthers.

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029936#Comment_121029936

You claim all images or communications being sent from space originate from within the Earth's atmosphere. In the absence of satellites, how can you explain live sports feeds from other countries? How does it all work in a different way then?

Astro's explanation shows that the block fabric pattern seen on the ISS is not unusual at all. The Astro YouTube video matches the screenshot image you uploaded here a few days ago. This indicates the images from the ISS are not fake. Still claiming it's a greenscreen

Yes, I agree that it would not take hundreds of people to fake outer space footage. You have a problem with your theory, as massive amounts of data are generated by such activities every day. It would require an enormous team of people to keep track of all the fake communications, data, and footage that is generated across the world every day, and keep all the fake stuff secret. Do you not notice how absurd that sounds? This conspiracy must self-replicate every day to keep going.

You focused on the credibility of one guy who claimed to be his father-son and saw the usual thing in the hangar somewhere. Not even his story, by the way; he claims it came from his father. It's nothing story unless you have corroborating evidence from many others.

>>mod snip @Cheerful S as there is something salvageable from your post relative to this discussion, I've just snipped your post. Going forward if you want to discuss 9/11 there's a place for it and it's not this thread.

HS

Giblet

Oh he is a "flat earther", ala Nathan Oakley? He is just a contrarian who doesn't really believe this stuff then. Loves the argument, but ultimately no proof because... well.

Nathan Oakley tried to pimp his wife on youtube as a tech youtuber before he got attention on Flat Earth, so many of the arguments he uses are for clickbait in between beating his child and drinking piss. I mean.. they can't even explain why the moon is upside down in Australia, or why it's darker nearer the Equator as well as going East at the same UTC time...

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121042960#Comment_121042960

Are you joking? A ~€350 GPS and 44nm from the coast and you expect that because you achieved this the debate should stop?

Incredible.

Giblet

More evidence than you or anyone on the flatearth / moon landing hoax has ever produced, anywhere.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121043257#Comment_121043257

Please show us something, anything, from a source where they state that GPS doesn't work over oceans.

Not that planes and boats carry multiple back methods of navigation, "backups" are not the same as "doesn't work". Where is there any evidence of GPS not working in certain areas of the globe?

Giblet

Or any evidence of ground based sources of the data? Or is that idea pulled from your arse too?

King Mob

Or an explanation for why the people behind GPS claim that it works by satellites when there is no benefit for doing so and doing so only provides evidence to expose the conspiracy.

Dohnjoe

Starlink satellites in orbit, seen with the naked eye

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV5rCP7uiaU

Can literally buy a starlink dish and connect, quite a few Irish customers. Works pretty much everywhere, including out in the ocean.

AndyBoBandy

I follow a German guy on YouTube who is currently sailing around the Atlantic Ocean (for the 2nd time).. Started in Europe, sailed across the Atlantic to the Caribbean, then up the East Coast as far as NYC, then back across the Atlantic to the Azores, and now on his way to Cape Town via Brazil. Not only is he using Satellite based GPS navigation, he’s also using off the shelf mobile satellite internet services so he can update his social media accounts daily..

Watch any of his videos (he does the videos in German & English) where he crosses an ocean, and the satellite ’question’ is put to bed.. or is he in on it too? I’ve plenty more examples too including some Irish folk… or are they in on it too?

There are thousands and thousands of amateur (though experienced) sailors sailing around all the oceans of the world, and the vast majority of them would simply not be able to do it without GPS. (Without GPS the ONLY other way to navigate an ocean is by sextant, which is an extremely difficult skill to master). So are they all in on it too?

https://www.mjambo.de/position/

Here is a very basic Satellite communication system that most sailors doing substantial passages would have.. it offers basic text message based communications which can be used to communicate and also receive weather data.

https://marineparts.ie/inreacha-mini-lightweight-and-compact-satellite-communicator/

or are they in on it too?

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121043177#Comment_121043177

Not quite a flat-earther but seems to be going for a "god made all" explanation which means you can never be wrong as god decided on your opinion and god can't be wrong.

Which is why the more interesting part is in the new stuff occurring and why it is being "faked", what reasoning is there to fake a fail and success so close to each other and how the devil, or an affiliate, is behind it.