Moon landing hoax

bytey

possible something went to the moon , after the robot probes
now whether it was manned or not , or part of appolo or not is very debatable .

yes appolo went into earth orbit - that had to happen

but either way the photo record is fake and or heavily edited and possibly likely staged.

how do we know apoolo 13 had a mission failure - by what NASA tells us ?

seriously - NASA controls the whole thing - hows to say apollo 13 never had an issue ?

just went into orbit - faked an accident , and came back?

maybe as a delaying tactic, maybe they needed to avoid faking another mission

the issue I have is

I cannot believe a fcuking word that comes from NASAs mouth .

and im alot more militant about it , cos I was a HUGE space buff from early on in life.
I even wanted to be involved - reading , collecting the models , buying direct prints from NASA

I looked at the pictures one day with an open mind and realised something did not add up in many of them.
and i was gutted when it sank in.

they are lying their tits off - and its a crime against us all .

PirateShampoo

bytey wrote: »

I cannot believe a fcuking word that comes from NASAs mouth .

But you will blindly believe youtube videos with there broken explinations.

Wibbs

bytey wrote: »

possible something went to the moon , after the robot probes
now whether it was manned or not , or part of appolo or not is very debatable.

I'd be saying it's not that debatable. Unless the notion of spaceflight itself is debatable. Yes going to the moon is a major step up from near earth orbit, but the physics of it arent. Its the extra systems involved that were/are the issue. Things like docking in space(commonplace now). EVA(again commonplace now), rocket motors that are throttlable(one of the hardest nuts to crack actually, but again common now).

You could look at the building of the ISS and the shuttle and take it a different way and see that without the rush to the moon(on both sides of the iron curtain), the systems you see today wouldnt have been nearly so far along.

yes appolo went into earth orbit - that had to happen

Why though?Easier to fake that actually. Fire up a glorified ICBM and say its going into orbit. If people wont believe the russians and everyone else who followed the apollo missions to the moon, why believe they could track it in orbit back then to any degree?

but either way the photo record is fake and or heavily edited and possibly likely staged.

OK but where did you first come to this conclusion? I'll return to that.

how do we know apoolo 13 had a mission failure - by what NASA tells us ?

seriously - NASA controls the whole thing - hows to say apollo 13 never had an issue ?

just went into orbit - faked an accident , and came back?

maybe as a delaying tactic, maybe they needed to avoid faking another mission

Well yes you could argue that apollo 13 was a PR triumph. That it rekindled interest in apollo and the US. Indeed you could argue far more easily that 13 was staged or caused(without the guys themselves knowing) just for such a purpose. OK lets imagine that did happen. That some were willing to kill their own guys to get into the news and the guys up there and on the ground figured a way around that and got home for an even bigger PR coup. In one way that would prove they at least went translunar. Because that accident had all the tracking stations all over the world pointed at them. They were in the public and scientific spotlight. They were among the most looked at humans in history at that point.

the issue I have is

I cannot believe a fcuking word that comes from NASAs mouth .

Again why? What changed your mind so radically?

I looked at the pictures one day with an open mind and realised something did not add up in many of them.
and i was gutted when it sank in.

Back before the interweb basically, very very few would have had an issue with the photos. Including the half million people involved in the project. Including the beady eye of photographic experts A web movement started up about the "hoax". It became a background meme, of "its fake you know, look at the shadows etc" and entered the public consciousness. Add in a side order of suspicion of government(normally a good thing BTW) and a course of distance of time and incredulity we could go then yet never went since and it gained ground. The latter was a disappointment to me at the time. The notion of the times before the 70's of "science will always march forward and we'll be living on the moon by 2000" was proved to be wrong.

My contention is that it's easier to explain the photos than to debunk them. If you have any background in photography. An open mind also needs some knowledge or expertise or you're still relying on someone elses word. otherwise it becomes as much if not more based on "faith" as the people who believe they went.

PirateShampoo wrote: »

But you will blindly believe youtube videos with there broken explinations.

Pretty much.

Vomit

Just watched that video. There's no way he brushed off the flag. Look how tall the flag is compared to him when he stands next to it and salutes. You can judge from that how far away he is from the camera when he passes it.

noodler

If I walk up to a flag on the moon, with a massive fan, and start waving it at it with every ounce of my strength (without actually toching it) - I won't get the flag to move one iota?

robtri

noodler wrote: »

If I walk up to a flag on the moon, with a massive fan, and start waving it at it with every ounce of my strength (without actually toching it) - I won't get the flag to move one iota?

no you wouldnt... as far as i know.

Two explanations i see... static electricity or he did bump it......

the flag continues to move a lot, under normal earth atmosphere and no other wind, surely it would have come to rest much quicker???

Vomit

Is anyone here open to the possibility that NASA faked some of the footage? Let's say they filmed the flag scene on the moon but the film all came out blank. Is it possible that they recreated the scene on earth? They could even have used the real audio. They'll do anything for TV. And in the days before the internet I'm sure they were more ballsy about these kinds of things. It could be the simplest explanation.

bonkey

It could be the simplest explanation if we ignore the fact that the stuff was broadcast live.

uprising2

bonkey wrote: »

It could be the simplest explanation if we ignore the fact that the stuff was broadcast live.

Yea its funny how NASA recorded over the ORIGINAL tapes to save a few bob.

Look at the ladders from the "Live" feed, and the photo's, 2 totally different ladders.


http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/hd/apollo11.html



http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/62288main_aldrin_ladder_full.jpg

PirateShampoo

Your completely right uprising, they switched props half why threw the photo shot :rolleyes:

Wibbs

uprising2 wrote: »

Yea its funny how NASA recorded over the ORIGINAL tapes to save a few bob.

Look at the ladders from the "Live" feed, and the photo's, 2 totally different ladders.


http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/hd/apollo11.html

Rather than yet another herculean example of clutching at non existent straws, maybe look at the design of the ladder. Better yet try getting a picture from the other side of the ladder. You know the one on the side the video camera was on. Oh look. the same ladder.



I mean lets get somewhat logical here. They fake the moon landings. They then make the mistake of having different ladders, too many lights, pack the rover on the wrong side, use the same backdrops, oh and yea cant find the money to dig a blast crater under the rocket. Then draw attention to all of the above with hi res colour stills with a "magic" camera?

The house of cards of evidence after all these pages is pretty shaky. One card, just one is debatable. The example of the moving flag above. That's your lot. Ranged against the overwhelming evidence that they did go, it's not looking very good, is it?

PS just to be clear. They recorded over the original feed shots on apollo 11. Clearly copies are still around and the original 100's of hours of video and 16mm film and 100's of hi res photos of the entire apollo mission are still around.

uprising2

I'm not getting involved in this pissing competition again, I'm not getting bogged down in something that I don't believe happened 40 years ago, but nothing is proof, there is none, all the proof show's it to be a hoax as far as I'm concerned

They went into earth orbit a couple of hundred miles up, staged the rest, destroyed and tried to cover their obvious mistakes, to this day man has not left earth orbit, thats what I believe and I have no interest in trying to push this belief on anybody else or argueing why.

So I'll put an end to my time here saying I don't believe men went to the moon, you people do and thats that, over and out.

Vomit

The question of the moving flag is surely one of great academic significance. Why have NASA never explained it? Where are the experts backed up back independent experts? There seems to be nothing but silence surrounding it. Either silence, or simple dismissal, i.e. "Well they DID go to the moon so there must be SOME good reason the flag moved". They only discussion about this I can find elsewhere is about the WRONG flag and the wrong video.

bytey

LIGHTNING wrote: »

What do you mean no proof? Your joking right? Apart from the 380 kg`s of samples brought back which are 600,000,000 years older than anything on earth. No to mention the 3rd party (i.e not the NASA or the US goverment) 3rd Part Evidence some of which comes from the Soviets who were at the time involved in the space race. Not to mention laser rangefinders left by the various apollo flights. But the people who think its a hoax wouldnt be swayed even if they were given all the evidence in the world. That in itself says alot about people who belief it was faked.

all faked

Torakx

There was a gift given to one of the european states of some moon rock after the americans mission.I read recently that it turned out after testing it was a piece of petrified wood but very old.
So either there were trees on the moon or nasa gave somebody fake moonrock for an unkown reason.Or it was moonrock and the article i read was false.Only way to know is go to college steal a sample of this fabled monnrock and test it yourself.No evidence is ever enough either way if the will is there

Vomit

Can't they get moon rock without actually sending humans there?

noodler

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Right! Its seems that ignoring scientific proof and embracing paranoia is a much better way of thinking. Well good luck with that! As a physicist I find some of the peoples thinking in here offensive/comical.

Now I in no way shape or form believe it was faked but, as a physicist, would you have any theories on flag incident?

humanji

Vomit wrote: »

Can't they get moon rock without actually sending humans there?

If you can do that, why not just send a human.

uprising2

humanji wrote: »

If you can do that, why not just send a human.

Same reason you don't put your cat in the microwave when its cold...:)

Wibbs

uprising2 wrote: »

I'm not getting involved in this pissing competition again, I'm not getting bogged down in something that I don't believe happened 40 years ago, but nothing is proof, there is none, all the proof show's it to be a hoax as far as I'm concerned

And that's your opinion and fair enough. I would simply say that every single proof you and the hoax side put forward is explainable. Every single proof you claim has been explained by the other side, but you chose to ignore it.

The ladder "proof" a perfect example. The hoaxers say "look its a different ladder". When shown a photo from the correct side its obvious its the same design ladder. Does this prove they went to the moon? Nope, but it does show the hoaxer side's "evidence" to be tenuous and it shows clutching at ever smaller straws.

The reaction is really whats different. "you're wrong/pissing contest/I'll ignore that/I believe its a hoax no matter what". That's why I have little or no respect for the hoax side. No matter what evidence they are shown, even if space aliens brought them up there and went "look, there's the landing sites", they would claim it was faked.

Vomit wrote: »

The question of the moving flag is surely one of great academic significance. Why have NASA never explained it? Where are the experts backed up back independent experts? There seems to be nothing but silence surrounding it. Either silence, or simple dismissal, i.e. "Well they DID go to the moon so there must be SOME good reason the flag moved". They only discussion about this I can find elsewhere is about the WRONG flag and the wrong video.

Oh I agree that flag movement is interesting. In the full sequence another astronaut walks right by it and it doesnt shift at all, so displacement of air can't be the answer.

Torakx wrote: »

There was a gift given to one of the european states of some moon rock after the americans mission.I read recently that it turned out after testing it was a piece of petrified wood but very old.
So either there were trees on the moon or nasa gave somebody fake moonrock for an unkown reason.Or it was moonrock and the article i read was false.Only way to know is go to college steal a sample of this fabled monnrock and test it yourself.No evidence is ever enough either way if the will is there

Yea but we've been down this road. The sample in question was given privately to the prime minister. It was in private hands for over 30 years. When NASA were asked to authenticate the sample, they did so. Over the phone. They confirmed that a moon rock had been presented 30 years previously. They never examined it and confirmed it that way. Given how valuable a moon sample is its far more likely it was nicked or even lost/mislabeled. Plus since they have moon rock samples from whatever source you believe, it makes no sense to hand out a fake one in the first place. It makes even less sense to hand out petrified wood. Hand out some terrestrial basalt and on first look it could pass to an untrained eye.

Vomit wrote: »

Can't they get moon rock without actually sending humans there?

Yes they can, but its not easy, even now. The mars return mission is looking to bring back grams, not many kilograms. Back then with the state of robotics, it would have been so much harder to bring back the quantities they have. It would have been "easier" to send humans to do it. Pretty much still would be.

Now the hoaxers say they collected them as meteorites in antarctica. Massively unlkely. Such meteorites were only recognised as moon rocks in the late 70's. They're very very rare. They're also worth a fortune and many have and are looking for them. Yet since the late 70's very few have been found. Worldwide. But we're supposed to believe that NASA found a couple of 100 kilos of them in one month in 1966?

noodler wrote: »

Now I in no way shape or form believe it was faked but, as a physicist, would you have any theories on flag incident?

I reckon anyway that he bumped it or there was a static charge going on.

LIGHTNING wrote: »

But the people who think its a hoax wouldnt be swayed even if they were given all the evidence in the world. That in itself says alot about people who belief it was faked.

Pretty much hits the nail on the head.

humanji

uprising2 wrote: »

Same reason you don't put your cat in the microwave when its cold...:)

You don't? Oh dear... Tinkles will not be happy.

Little D

uprising2 wrote: »

Same reason you don't put your cat in the microwave when its cold...:)

totally off subject but years back one particularly hard winter my cousins rabbit died and my uncle who was convinced the cold had caused its death so he got a hair dryer and began to blow it all over the lifeless body of the rabbit on the kitchen table, needless to say the rabbit did not come back to life, my uncle is now in the army, sleep easy we're in good hands he will keep the country safe

noodler

Little D wrote: »

totally off subject but years back one particularly hard winter my cousins rabbit died and my uncle who was convinced the cold had caused its death so he got a hair dryer and began to blow it all over the lifeless body of the rabbit on the kitchen table, needless to say the rabbit did not come back to life, my uncle is now in the army, sleep easy we're in good hands he will keep the country safe

That is very creepy.

I haven't read all of this and i don't know if it was faked or not. but i saw a video yesterday where it was said they now claim they went by the poles -north or south,i can't recall- to avoid the van allen belts.I had not heard this before . critics said they did not have time or fuel and that it cannot be verified because the telemetry is destroyed. it said loads of moon tapes are destroyed.They claimed nasa are destroying as much as possible because of new techniques of investigation may expose them

i must admit I wondered why they would destroy historical tapes. or maybe they are 'missing' but not lost i cannot remember

It also showed footage from someone who filmed lift off in one continouus shot and the spacecraft was not moving as fast as it should. i think they were able to know by how high it should be ? they claimed there were no astronauts on board and no equipment and they did this in order to use different engines, not the usual saturn 5 engines

this is the video in case anyone is interested.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8XgEOtC7MQ there are 7 or 8 parts. i am not pushing it or saying it's true.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/64745494#Comment_64745494

you can get some on earth, Antartica is a good place

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560447#Comment_119560447

This is a 12 year old thread.

I strongly suggest you watch a factual video on the launch not one riddled with all sorts of "claims" from a creator who does nothing but create "moon hoax" videos that never explain the hoax.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119561245#Comment_119561245

you don't tell me what to watch. if you cannot answer my question stay out of it

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119561761#Comment_119561761

It's just a suggestion.

As for your points, the astronauts went through the thinnest part of the Van Allen belts to minimise radiation exposure. NASA lost some tapes. Nothing odd about the launch, and nothing to suggest the astronauts weren't on board that flight, nor the 5 subsequent flights that went to the moon.

Does the video explain what the hoax is, or does it just spend all its time trying to get it's audience to doubt the event?

it does have attempts to make explanations of the hoax but i am not summarising 4 hours. i do not say i believe them anyway

. i was asking cos i had not heard before they went by the poles to avoid the van allen belts and the telemetry which would confirm or disprove this is lost

and i had not heard before the astroauts were not on board. they say the astronauts were flown to an island off hawaii and when it was time for splashdown they were taken on a plane and dropped from it into the ocean

They also say Kubrick may have been involved and refer to the Kubrick Horizontal in the photos

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560811#Comment_119560811

I also heard Morocco is good for meteorites too and Libya, but not lunar rocks.

Antarctica is on the southern pole, I wonder why would they be more common there than anywhere else.