Arsenal -v- Liverpool, 19.45 SS2

FUNKY LOVER

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

Did anyone see how Gerrard dived in the last minute trying to get a freekick out of Diaby? After that Kuyt was fouled, but the ref should stop it straight away and booked Gerrard. he wasnt even touched and he threw himself head first. Absolutly shocking

Watch it again he fell over fighting for the ball, got straight back up and made no appeal, it was not a dive. Its amazing how the Gerrard haters see everything as a dive. Its laughable but some even think he dived in the first half when his heels were clearly clipped.

FUNKY LOVER

fell over fighting for the ball:D

jesus_thats_gre

If you actually watch the replay from behind the goal, you will see that Gerrard right leg is clipped first (very right hand side of the shot).

He played for a free kick but it wasn't just a random star fish that he is now famous for.

SlickRic

Gerrard didn't dive last night...for the free kick in question i might add.

it should've been a handball, but outside the box.

it was a pretty cr*p game from what i saw.

i've mixed feelings about losing.

yes, it hits our chances for 4th, but it's good to see Arsenal back in the title race, albeit with an outside shot.

i'd like them to win it tbh.

FUNKY LOVER

yes he did dive,he dived like a seal going headfirst into water.

Frisbee

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

yes he did dive,he dived like a seal going headfirst into water.

I really didn't think he dived either. Fell over and made no real appeal.

Gerrard is a notorious diver alright, but not last night.

FUNKY LOVER

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

yes he did dive,he dived like a seal going headfirst into water.

.....Tumbleweed


Frisbee has it spot on

Mitch Connor

rarnes1 wrote: »

.....Tumbleweed


Frisbee has it spot on

because Frisbee concurs with you?

IMO he dived, not appealing does not make it less of a dive, could just means he knew he made an utter mess of it.

dfx-

The last free-kick? Didn't Howard Webb gesture that it was for a push on Kuyt?

So Gerrard's diving is completely irrelevant..

Ush1

He has this remarkable instinct if it isn't diving, when he gets touched, he flings himself, splays his arms and legs wide like doing a horizontal jumping jack, grimaces his face then quickly looks around for the ref with a face like a baby crying for its mother......Surely not diving though.

Mitch Connor

dfx- wrote: »

The last free-kick? Didn't Howard Webb gesture that it was for a push on Kuyt?

So Gerrard's diving is completely irrelevant..

eh no.

If Gerrard dived, then the play should have been stopped, a free given against him and a yellow card given to him. So it is very relevant to the free that was given.

jesus_thats_gre

Ush1 wrote: »

He has this remarkable instinct if it isn't diving, when he gets touched, he flings himself, splays his arms and legs wide like doing a horizontal jumping jack, grimaces his face then quickly looks around for the ref with a face like a baby crying for its mother......Surely not diving though.

He does the ould star fish on an increasingly regular basis - no one is denying this from what I can see. He done it a few times last night. He didn't dive for the tackle in question though in my opinion.

L'prof

Who cares about all this diving lark, clearly peoples opinions are split on the matter and just leave it at that.

As for the free kick for a push on Kuyt? Never happened so, I couldn't care less if Fabregas jumped up and caught the ball on the penalty spot, I genuinely don't think it was a free in the first place.

As for Pool fans complaining about Fabregas standing in front of your frees (not sure id I saw it in this thread)? It's a common tactic used my many teams and it gives them a little bit more time to regroup. Clever play in my opinion, as clever as Skrtel deliberately fouling just outside our box to stop us breaking while he's out of position.

Mitch Connor

jasonorr wrote: »

Who cares about all this diving lark, clearly peoples opinions are split on the matter and just leave it at that.

As for the free kick for a push on Kuyt? Never happened so, I couldn't care less if Fabregas jumped up and caught the ball on the penalty spot, I genuinely don't think it was a free in the first place.

As for Pool fans complaining about Fabregas standing in front of your frees (not sure id I saw it in this thread)? It's a common tactic used my many teams and it gives them a little bit more time to regroup. Clever play in my opinion, as clever as Skrtel deliberately fouling just outside our box to stop us breaking while he's out of position.

if i was a manager i would be screaming at my players if they weren't standing in front of the ball on free kicks.

If you don't stand in front of it, you give the opposition the chance to take it quickly while you are still organising. If you stand in front and force the opposition to point this out to the ref to get you to move, then you have to be given time to set the wall up and get everyone in position, the free can not be taken before the refs whistle. Fabregas is 100% doing the right thing when he does that.

Frisbee

Mitch Connor wrote: »

if i was a manager i would be screaming at my players if they weren't standing in front of the ball on free kicks.

If you don't stand in front of it, you give the opposition the chance to take it quickly while you are still organising. If you stand in front and force the opposition to point this out to the ref to get you to move, then you have to be given time to set the wall up and get everyone in position, the free can not be taken before the refs whistle. Fabregas is 100% doing the right thing when he does that.

I agree that you should always have someone stand in front of the ball to prevent the opposition from taking it quickly.

But twice last night Fabregas picked up the ball and threw it back, that's just silly and he was lucky to stay on as you see ref's give yellow for that nowadays. Just stand in front of the ball, don't go touching it.

Spiritoftheseventies

dfx- wrote: »

The last free-kick? Didn't Howard Webb gesture that it was for a push on Kuyt?

So Gerrard's diving is completely irrelevant..

exactly. But its water under the bridge now.

noodler

Unbelievable stuff by the Arsenal crowd in the last few posts.

So, if you were a manager you would be furious if somebody didn't block the ball? Ok fair enough. What about dragging out of a striker in the box? Taking a dive? Would you be equally as furious?

Fabregas should have been booked everytime he stood on front of the ball and stopped Liverpool taking a free, and certainly everytime he wouldn't give the ball back or knocked it away.

That would soon put an end to thaty kind of behaviour - just like dragging out of attackers in the box - it should be clamped down on.

It makes the whole notion of free kicks pointless if the disadvantaged team's 'advantage' is going to be eroded to this extent.

Ush1

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

exactly. But its water under the bridge now.

No, if he dived, you blow up and book him. You don't let play continue in their favour.

L'prof

noodler wrote: »

Unbelievable stuff by the Arsenal crowd in the last few posts.

So, if you were a manager you would be furious if somebody didn't block the ball? Ok fair enough. What about dragging out of a striker in the box? Taking a dive? Would you be equally as furious?

Fabregas should have been booked everytime he stood on front of the ball and stopped Liverpool taking a free, and certainly everytime he wouldn't give the ball back or knocked it away.

That would soon put an end to thaty kind of behaviour - just like dragging out of attackers in the box - it should be clamped down on.

It makes the whole notion of free kicks pointless if the disadvantaged team's 'advantage' is going to be eroded to this extent.

Ye still have the free kick, just can't take it quickly. It's clever play and if he doesn't get booked for it, why stop?

As I pointed out above, Skrtel's tackle was equally cynical and any advantage we had while breaking was lost, I suppose you'd agree with a yellow there? I doubt it, it's just clever play.

Ush1

noodler wrote: »

Unbelievable stuff by the Arsenal crowd in the last few posts.

So, if you were a manager you would be furious if somebody didn't block the ball? Ok fair enough. What about dragging out of a striker in the box? Taking a dive? Would you be equally as furious?

Fabregas should have been booked everytime he stood on front of the ball and stopped Liverpool taking a free, and certainly everytime he wouldn't give the ball back or knocked it away.

That would soon put an end to thaty kind of behaviour - just like dragging out of attackers in the box - it should be clamped down on.

It makes the whole notion of free kicks pointless if the disadvantaged team's 'advantage' is going to be eroded to this extent.

Yep, falls under the same category as ushering aka obstruction, the ball out of play. But there's nothing unbelievable about it, every single team does it.

SlickRic

Cesc was smart everytime he did it, I'd be p*ssed off if my team didn't do it.

cr*p game, Arsenal produced one moment of proper quality and won it.

end of.

4th is still the achievable goal for the season.

3rd would have been an utterly ludicrous bonus given how we've played this year.

Kess73

mayordenis wrote: »

He was clearly joking in the post you got all uppity about.

It was a Henchoz Handball.

It was not a Henchoz handball, we were playing "last man back is the keeper" that day, and if memory serves right Henchoz made two saves that day with his hands and not just one.:D

Kess73

noodler wrote: »

Unbelievable stuff by the Arsenal crowd in the last few posts.

So, if you were a manager you would be furious if somebody didn't block the ball? Ok fair enough. What about dragging out of a striker in the box? Taking a dive? Would you be equally as furious?

Fabregas should have been booked everytime he stood on front of the ball and stopped Liverpool taking a free, and certainly everytime he wouldn't give the ball back or knocked it away.

That would soon put an end to thaty kind of behaviour - just like dragging out of attackers in the box - it should be clamped down on.

It makes the whole notion of free kicks pointless if the disadvantaged team's 'advantage' is going to be eroded to this extent.

To be fair, Alonso was bloody brilliant at that for us and so was Hamann. But both of them were far less obvious that Cesc, and were smarter in how they appeared.

Xabi and Didi always seemed to need to fix a lace or stud, or something caught their eye in the crowd right in front of where the free was about to be taken.

Even look back at old footage and see how often either Xabi or Didi were the last man to trot slowly in front of the free kick taker.

It is a done thing in footy, and it always raises a smile with me when a player on my team is clever enough to do so to buy time for the defence to organise, so I really cannot whinge when it gets done back.

Frisbee

noodler wrote: »

Unbelievable stuff by the Arsenal crowd in the last few posts.

So, if you were a manager you would be furious if somebody didn't block the ball? Ok fair enough. What about dragging out of a striker in the box? Taking a dive? Would you be equally as furious?

Fabregas should have been booked everytime he stood on front of the ball and stopped Liverpool taking a free, and certainly everytime he wouldn't give the ball back or knocked it away.

Mate, every team has playuers who stand in front of free kicks to stop opponents taking them quickly, just like when the wall stands about 3 yards away at first so the ref has to move them back.

At the part in bold. no-one from your team has ever stood in front of a free to stop it being taken quickly?

citytillidie

Mitch Connor wrote: »

eh no.

If Gerrard dived, then the play should have been stopped, a free given against him and a yellow card given to him. So it is very relevant to the free that was given.

But he did not dive he slipped and got back up to continue on playing

leninbenjamin

noodler wrote: »

Fabregas should have been booked everytime he stood on front of the ball and stopped Liverpool taking a free,

No offense noodler, but you'd have to be a right retard of a manager if you didn't expect your players to do this. You're showing complete ignorance of the modern game with the above statement tbh. Remember how Denmark made Brazil look like idiots in 98? That's when all that sh*t started, and for good reason!

A good nicely positioned drive of the ball at fabragas at close range would stop his carry on pretty quickly and he would most likely get booked for standing too close to the ball and preventing the free kick.

Frisbee

Aminah Long Blueberry wrote: »

A good nicely positioned drive of the ball at fabragas at close range would stop his carry on pretty quickly and he would most likely get booked for standing too close to the ball and preventing the free kick.

Yup, bang it off him when he's not ten yards away and he gets a yellow.

Tbf though very few players will be willing to do it as it's a right cnuts trick and would lead to yellow cards flying everywhere and sendings off every game.

I think Ashley Young did it last year or the year before (not sure now) and it wasnt received too well by players or pundits alike.

Having said that though them's the rules so if your that annoyed by a player stopping you taking it quickly get him a yellow and he'll soon stop.

Fink Goddie

aaronh007 wrote: »

Especially as I said to Fink that he would win the game for us...that would have been magic

That_Guy wrote: »

I'm forever saying it to my mate whenever he comes over to watch Liverpool. He doesn't rate Lucas at all and I always tell him that he'll score the most important goal of Liverpool's season.

Dream on boys :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Frisbee

Frisbee wrote: »

Yup, bang it off him when he's not ten yards away and he gets a yellow.

Tbf though very few players will be willing to do it as it's a right cnuts trick and would lead to yellow cards flying everywhere and sendings off every game.

I think Ashley Young did it last year or the year before (not sure now) and it wasnt received too well by players or pundits alike.

Having said that though them's the rules so if your that annoyed by a player stopping you taking it quickly get him a yellow and he'll soon stop.

Well you couldn't be doing it all the time but in the last few minutes when chasing a goal I think it would be fair game.

fullstop

citytillidie wrote: »

So its ok to push players to the ground?

It was given for Cesc pushing Kuyt to the floor.

And as said before Howard was awful

Should have been a free out and yellow card to Starfish Stevie for the dive just before the awarding of the free.

argosy2006 wrote: »

looked to me it was flying in the corner of the net,, not top corner, maybe goal keeper would have got to it, maybe not,defo penalty, i wouldnt mind if it was his face he was covering with his hand up that high, but it wasnt it was a reach for the ball,,

How can it be a penalty when it was outside the box

citytillidie wrote: »

The ref bottled it, and it was on the line. On the line means pen

No, it wasn't

Prufrock

Arsenal were well worth their win last night. Aside from Babels long range effort Liverpool didn't create anything last night. Story of their season.

The Recliner

Prufrock wrote: »

Arsenal were well worth their win last night. Aside from Babels long range effort Liverpool didn't create anything last night. Story of their season.

The stats from last night disagree with you

Corners Arsenal 3 Liverpool 6
Attempts on Goal Arsenal 8 Liverpool 7
Attempts on target Arsenal 3 Liverpool 4
Fouls Arsenal 21 Liverpool 15
Offside Arsenal 3 Liverpool 3

I thought we were unlucky to lose last night, the quaility of the chances on target might have been the difference though even though we had more of them

Prufrock

The Recliner wrote: »

The stats from last night disagree with you

Attempts on Goal Arsenal 8 Liverpool 7
Attempts on target Arsenal 3 Liverpool 4

These are the only stats that matter and of those 4 attempts on target none except for Babel troubled Almunia.

L'prof

The Recliner wrote: »

The stats from last night disagree with you

Corners Arsenal 3 Liverpool 6
Attempts on Goal Arsenal 8 Liverpool 7
Attempts on target Arsenal 3 Liverpool 4
Fouls Arsenal 21 Liverpool 15
Offside Arsenal 3 Liverpool 3

I thought we were unlucky to lose last night, the quaility of the chances on target might have been the difference though even though we had more of them

Back to this crap where the stats tell the story of the game?

Did you watch the game? If you did can you honestly say Liverpool deserved anything. I don't think they did. How many times did they just launch the ball forward in hope? It might work with Torres on the pitch but, not last night!

The Recliner

Prufrock wrote: »

These are the only stats that matter and of those 4 attempts on target none except for Babel troubled Almunia.

I agree hence why I said that the quaility of the attempts mattered

Was just point out that it was a bit harsh to say we created nothing, we just didn't create good enough chances or din't take the goos chances we did create

jasonorr wrote: »

Back to this crap where the stats tell the story of the game?

Did you watch the game? If you did can you honestly say Liverpool deserved anything. I don't think they did. How many times did they just launch the ball forward in hope? It might work with Torres on the pitch but, not last night!

Not what I meant by the post, stats alone don't tell everything but they are informative and have clarified above why I posted them

I did watch the game and to be honest don't think a draw would have been unfair, Arsenal weren't that good last night, it wasn't like Liverpool were under the cosh for the whole game or anything, we had chances and we didn't take them and whilst we weren't great last night I don't think a draw would have been undeserved

jesus_thats_gre

Prufrock wrote: »

Arsenal were well worth their win last night. Aside from Babels long range effort Liverpool didn't create anything last night. Story of their season.

Arsenal were the better team alright but there was more about Liverpool than just Babel's chance.

L'prof

The Recliner wrote: »

I agree hence why I said that the quaility of the attempts mattered

Was just point out that it was a bit harsh to say we created nothing, we just didn't create good enough chances or din't take the goos chances we did create



Not what I meant by the post, stats alone don't tell everything but they are informative and have clarified above why I posted them

I did watch the game and to be honest don't think a draw would have been unfair, Arsenal weren't that good last night, it wasn't like Liverpool were under the cosh for the whole game or anything, we had chances and we didn't take them and whilst we weren't great last night I don't think a draw would have been undeserved

I think a draw would have been harsh to be honest, we played well and got into good positions and Liverpool tried to catch us out with the long ball. Anyone other than N'gog and ye probably would have score and Babel pulled that shot out of nowhere. Great save by Almunia...amazingly! I just feel Arsenal were worth the three points last night.

The Recliner

jasonorr wrote: »

I think a draw would have been harsh to be honest, we played well and got into good positions and Liverpool tried to catch us out with the long ball. Anyone other than N'gog and ye probably would have score and Babel pulled that shot out of nowhere. Great save by Almunia...amazingly! I just feel Arsenal were worth the three points last night.

I disagree, I think Liverpool were better than they are being given credit for, playing on the break away from home is usually a solid tactic

But I guess we are both looking at this through our respective rose tinted glasses, the truth as usual is somewhere in the middle

L'prof

The Recliner wrote: »

I disagree, I think Liverpool were better than they are being given credit for, playing on the break away from home is usually a solid tactic

But I guess we are both looking at this through our respective rose tinted glasses, the truth as usual is somewhere in the middle

Could be the case I guess, just thought it was a pretty fair reflection on the game. Not much in it with us looking more dangerous on the ball!

The Recliner

jasonorr wrote: »

Could be the case I guess, just thought it was a pretty fair reflection on the game. Not much in it with us looking more dangerous on the ball!

That could be true but I didn't find myself too worried/relieved after chances Arsenal had and not more than I was excited by the chances Liverpool had which is what coloured my thinking

It wasn't the most exciting of games I guess so that might explain it

mayordenis

I think you both have lovely bottoms, of course everyone has a lovely bottom.

Fink Goddie

mayordenis wrote: »

I think you both have lovely bottoms, of course everyone has a lovely bottom.

Even Brian Cowen?

noodler

Frisbee wrote: »

Mate, every team has playuers who stand in front of free kicks to stop opponents taking them quickly, just like when the wall stands about 3 yards away at first so the ref has to move them back.

At the part in bold. no-one from your team has ever stood in front of a free to stop it being taken quickly?

Mate, every team has defenders that drag out of attackers at set plays, would you prefer this be stamped down on or not?

If somebody had done it as persistently as Fabregas last night (to go along with this kicking the ball away etc) then I would exepct him to get booked alright. Why should the attacking team have to boot the ball at him when he is a metre away just to get some disciplinary action taken?

It really hurts the flow of any game.

leninbenjamin wrote: »

No offense noodler, but you'd have to be a right retard of a manager if you didn't expect your players to do this. You're showing complete ignorance of the modern game with the above statement tbh. Remember how Denmark made Brazil look like idiots in 98? That's when all that sh*t started, and for good reason!

? No offense, but what on earth is your point here?

Ignorance of the modern game? LMAO. No, the problem is I see the modern game, I see teams' attacks get broken down and free kicks awarded but then I see even less advantage accruing than there should be by these types of tactics.

Silly, silly points like "well if someone on your team does you'd be happy" are a bit fcuking pointless and would pretty much make any proposed improvement to the game null and void if everyone took the same schoolboy attitude.

Jesus, I don't think you actually read what I said.

Frisbee

noodler wrote: »

Mate, every team has defenders that drag out of attackers at set plays, would you prefer this be stamped down on or not?

If somebody had done it as persistently as Fabregas last night (to go along with this kicking the ball away etc) then I would exepct him to get booked alright. Why should the attacking team have to boot the ball at him when he is a metre away just to get some disciplinary action taken?

It really hurts the flow of any game.

Of course defender dragging out of attackers at corners etc should be cut down on. Unfortunately it never will be or we'd end up with 5 red cards a game. Same way we'll never see people challenging the keeper harsher than breathing on them allowed.

I agreed earlier with you that it was ridiculous that Fabregas kept throwing the ball backwards when you won a free kick and the second time he did get booked for it.

mayordenis

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Even Brian Cowen?

I take everything I have ever said back.

noodler

Frisbee wrote: »

Of course defender dragging out of attackers at corners etc should be cut down on. Unfortunately it never will be or we'd end up with 5 red cards a game. Same way we'll never see people challenging the keeper harsher than breathing on them allowed.

I agreed earlier with you that it was ridiculous that Fabregas kept throwing the ball backwards when you won a free kick and the second time he did get booked for it.

Completely disagree. All they need to do is enforce it for a few weeks and players would soon fall into line. Same way they did with tackles from behind which many thought could never be tocuhed by the rules as we would have 5 reds a game.

I feel thats a pretty poor excuse and that players will adapt once any rule is brought in and properly enforce. Quick freekicks should be allowed 100% of the time - a defending team should fart about with a wall at their own risk.

By the same token I feel opposition players should be punished for stopping the disadvanatged team doing so.

Galvasean

jasonorr wrote: »

Back to this crap where the stats tell the story of the game?

If we only judged agame on stats then Arsenal should have destroyed Man United two weeks ago. They ahd more attempts, shots on target, corners and less fouls. But, that aint always how football works.

Fink Goddie

mayordenis wrote: »

Positivity!!!! I knew you would slip up one day.

And look what happened eh, they fricken LOST!

mayordenis wrote: »

I take everything I have ever said back.

:pac:

Splainc

noodler wrote: »

Completely disagree. All they need to do is enforce it for a few weeks and players would soon fall into line. Same way they did with tackles from behind which many thought could never be tocuhed by the rules as we would have 5 reds a game.

I feel thats a pretty poor excuse and that players will adapt once any rule is brought in and properly enforce. Quick freekicks should be allowed 100% of the time - a defending team should fart about with a wall at their own risk.

By the same token I feel opposition players should be punished for stopping the disadvanatged team doing so.

Agree whole-heartedly with all the above. Players only want consistency with every rule/law applied and adapt pretty damn quickly. Of course there will always be exceptions to the rule but that is the same in all aspects of life