Arsenal -v- Liverpool, 19.45 SS2

Frisbee

noodler wrote: »

Completely disagree. All they need to do is enforce it for a few weeks and players would soon fall into line. Same way they did with tackles from behind which many thought could never be tocuhed by the rules as we would have 5 reds a game.

Football's governing bodies are awful at enforcing new rules though.

Just look at the Eduardo dive incident. I would have had no problem with him getting a ban in UEFA were willing to ban every player that dived from then on.

But then when they realised the upheaval they'd have from:

(I) Arsenal if they didn't ban everyone
(II) Every other player/club appealing any ban and wasting time and money.

They backtracked bigtime realising the enormity of their task.

I agree with you 100% on defenders persistently fouling at corners, players stopping the other team taking quick free's etc.

But unfortunately I can't see it changing anytime soon...

Splainc

Frisbee wrote: »

Football's governing bodies are awful at enforcing new rules though.

Just look at the Eduardo dive incident. I would have had no problem with him getting a ban in UEFA were willing to ban every player that dived from then on.

But then when they realised the upheaval they'd have from:

(I) Arsenal if they didn't ban everyone
(II) Every other player/club appealing any ban and wasting time and money.

They backtracked bigtime realising the enormity of their task.

I agree with you 100% on defenders persistently fouling at corners, players stopping the other team taking quick free's etc.

But unfortunately I can't see it changing anytime soon...

But to ban Eduardo was ridiculous. They should wait until the close season and make and publicise the new rule(s) so that players/managers are well aware of it. It would have just been randomly picking on Eduardo. However once they went ahead with it they should have stuck to their guns

leninbenjamin

noodler wrote: »

Jesus, I don't think you actually read what I said.

Well what about my point about Denmark in 98? Ddo you just not remember the quick freekick that Laudrup played while Brazil were lining up the wall? Can you not reason why defenders would wish to delay a freekick from being taken and why it would be desirable from a manager's p.o.v. or must it be spelled out?

Fabregas' antics prevented Pool taking a quick free, he slowed the game down when his team were holding onto a marginal lead plus it had the added effect of winding the Pool team (and fans alike it seems) up. Yes it's cynical, yes it slows the game down, but it increases Arsenal's chances of coming away with the 3 points. That's why every manager worth his salt tells his players to do it.

And for what it's worth anyway 'the modern game' is a loose term used to describe the current brand of football, which if you'll remember is characterized by primarily it's high pace, pressing and physicality in comparison with older generations. Hence why slowing the game down is a good thing from a defenders p.o.v., it earns teams respite and leaves them less likely to be exposed.

Frisbee

Splainc wrote: »

But to ban Eduardo was ridiculous. They should wait until the close season and make and publicise the new rule(s) so that players/managers are well aware of it. It would have just been randomly picking on Eduardo. However once they went ahead with it they should have stuck to their guns

If this is done in the off season for examples used earlier it will be brilliant.

I just can't see it happening though.

noodler

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Well what about my point about Denmark in 98? Ddo you just not remember the quick freekick that Laudrup played while Brazil were lining up the wall? Can you not reason why defenders would wish to delay a freekick from being taken and why it would be desirable from a manager's p.o.v. or must it be spelled out?

Fabregas' antics prevented Pool taking a quick free, he slowed the game down when his team were holding onto a marginal lead plus it had the added effect of winding the Pool team (and fans alike it seems) up. Yes it's cynical, yes it slows the game down, but it increases Arsenal's chances of coming away with the 3 points. That's why every manager worth his salt tells his players to do it.

And for what it's worth anyway 'the modern game' is a loose term used to describe the current brand of football, which if you'll remember is characterized by primarily it's high pace, pressing and physicality in comparison with older generations. Hence why slowing the game down is a good thing from a defenders p.o.v., it earns teams respite and leaves them less likely to be exposed.

I am sure defenders would love to be able to have a wall for a penalty too but they can't.

And there you are back to the absolutely pointless "wouldn't you like your team to do it?" crap for the remainder of your post.

Sigh, not much use when we are discussing a rule change or enforcement.

premierstone

noodler wrote: »

If somebody had done it as persistently as Fabregas last night (to go along with this kicking the ball away etc) then I would exepct him to get booked alright. Why should the attacking team have to boot the ball at him when he is a metre away just to get some disciplinary action taken?

It really hurts the flow of any game.

Yellow card for hurting the flow of the game interesting so tell me when is Rafa's suspension coming up??

And on a more serious note what Fabregas was doing last night was perfectly correct and sensible, jaysus when Arsenal dont do this kind of thing they are accused of been too naive and immature but when they do it they are cheating and ruining the flow of the game, LMFAO priceless.

leninbenjamin

noodler wrote: »

I am sure defenders would love to be able to have a wall for a penalty too but they can't.

Oh for Christ sake, Fabregas didn't do anything directly against the rules! He stood in front of the free taker when the ball technically wasn't in play, nothing wrong with that. He was slow giving them the ball back, again nothing in the rules (edit: well there is, but he didn't hold into it long enough for it to be considered time-wasting). He got booked for rolling it back, what more do you want? Rules will always be bent tbh, you eliminate one loop hole, they find another. I don't see anything wrong with exploiting them for the gain of your team. It's not he like he committed a two footed tackle.

noodler wrote: »

And there you are back to the absolutely pointless "wouldn't you like your team to do it?" crap for the remainder of your post.

Sigh, not much use when we are discussing a rule change or enforcement.

yawn... come back when you actually feel like addressing my points, instead of dismissing it with the same kind of sweeping generalisation you accuse me of.

noodler

premierstone wrote: »

Yellow card for hurting the flow of the game interesting so tell me when is Rafa's suspension coming up??

And on a more serious note what Fabregas was doing last night was perfectly correct and sensible, jaysus when Arsenal dont do this kind of thing they are accused of been too naive and immature but when they do it they are cheating and ruining the flow of the game, LMFAO priceless.

Ah the Arsenal fan bubble. I think you are being a bit narrow when it comes to the overall point.

leninbenjamin wrote: »

He was slow giving them the ball back, again nothing in the rules (edit: well there is, but he didn't hold into it long enough for it to be considered time-wasting). He got booked for rolling it back, what more do you want? Rules will always be bent tbh, you eliminate one loop hole, they find another. I don't see anything wrong with exploiting them for the gain of your team. It's not he like he committed a two footed tackle.



yawn... come back when you actually feel like addressing my points, instead of dismissing it with the same kind of sweeping generalisation you accuse me of.

In bold, thanks, pretty much answers that, So how about when he does it multiple times? Honestly, its like French fans arguing against video replays because their team wouldn't benefit from ropey decisions anymore.

You are making the same points in every post about how it is the smart thing to do. Henry's handball was the smart thing to do, as was Maradona's - we still try to implement rules to stop such things happening.

gosplan

Both teams are professional outfits so both are capable of various forms of gamesmanship, whether it be delaying a free kick, diving, clever fouls on the halfway line or whatever.

Arsenal 1 Liverpool 0

Time for everyone to move on.

premierstone

noodler wrote: »

Ah the Arsenal fan bubble. I think you are being a bit narrow when it comes to the overall point.

People in glasshouses come to mind.

So how many yellow cards should Gerard have this season for diving by your calculations?

OPENROAD

premierstone wrote: »

People in glasshouses come to mind.

So how many yellow cards should Gerard have this season for diving by your calculations?

I'm still waiting for Liverpool fans to come out and make a strong statement on this issue, people are quick to come out and condem the actions of other players very very strongly.


Arsenal fully deserved the win last night, Liverpool set out to get a draw and in the end the tactics did not work outm move on, but to be attacking Cesc is a joke imo

mayordenis

OPENROAD wrote: »

I'm still waiting for Liverpool fans to come out and make a strong statement on this issue, people are quick to come out and condem the actions of other players very very strongly.

Arsenal fully deserved the win last night, Liverpool set out to get a draw and in the end the tactics did not work outm move on, but to be attacking Cesc is a joke imo

Wtf are you talking about? nearly every Liverpool fan I know ****ing hates diving, and especially our own Captain diving it takes away from his game and stature hugely.

K-9

OPENROAD wrote: »

I'm still waiting for Liverpool fans to come out and make a strong statement on this issue, people are quick to come out and condem the actions of other players very very strongly.


Arsenal fully deserved the win last night, Liverpool set out to get a draw and in the end the tactics did not work outm move on, but to be attacking Cesc is a joke imo

It is part of the modern game!

OPENROAD

mayordenis wrote: »

Wtf are you talking about? nearly every Liverpool fan I know ****ing hates diving, and especially our own Captain diving it takes away from his game and stature hugely.

You know what I'm taling about, people are very quick to use the "cheat" word when it comes to other players.

noodler

premierstone wrote: »

People in glasshouses come to mind.

So how many yellow cards should Gerard have this season for diving by your calculations?

You missed the point entirely. A general point is being made about how horrible the tactic off blocking frees illegally is etc and you proceed to to moan about how Arsenal are damned if they do or damned if they don't.

He should have a few. Fabregas should have a few for a variety of offenses, Eboue should have a few, Gallas should have seen red against Bolton etc etc

Don't go on the defensive about your own club when a general point about football is being made.

L'prof

noodler wrote: »

Don't go on the defensive about your own club when a general point about football is being made.

I laughed!

noodler wrote: »

He should have a few. Fabregas should have a few for a variety of offenses, Eboue should have a few, Gallas should have seen red against Bolton etc etc.

noodler

jasonorr wrote: »

I laughed!

So did I!

At yourself though, he clearly asked me a question about Gerrard and my point was quite clearly on the pointlessness of going on about one club in particular when a general point about the rules is being made.

Bit slow, eh?

L'prof

noodler wrote: »

So did I!

At yourself though, he clearly asked me a question about Gerrard and my point was quite clearly on the pointlessness of going on about one club in particular when a general point about the rules is being made.

Bit slow, eh?

If you can't see how unclear that point was, I think you should keep your petty remarks to yourself and think about what you post more carefully!

citytillidie

OPENROAD wrote: »

I'm still waiting for Liverpool fans to come out and make a strong statement on this issue, people are quick to come out and condem the actions of other players very very strongly.


Arsenal fully deserved the win last night, Liverpool set out to get a draw and in the end the tactics did not work outm move on, but to be attacking Cesc is a joke imo

May i point to you to earlier in the thread where Gerrard ran into the back of one of the Arsenal defenders backs and went to the group very easily.

Me been a Liverpool fan posted

Gerrard should have been booked for that. Is that good enough for you???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

SlickRic

OPENROAD wrote: »

I'm still waiting for Liverpool fans to come out and make a strong statement on this issue, people are quick to come out and condem the actions of other players very very strongly.

relax.

we know he dives. the majority here condemn it and call it cheating, and you know it.

we can't do anything about it. it's part of the game. Gerrard is particularly bad, but every team has players who dive, even your beloved Gunners.

so short of the entire Liverpool forum issuing a 'CHEAT' post every time he dives, I don't know what you want.

OPENROAD

citytillidie wrote: »

May i point to you to earlier in the thread where Gerrard ran into the back of one of the Arsenal defenders backs and went to the group very easily.

Me been a Liverpool fan posted

Gerrard should have been booked for that. Is that good enough for you???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

What I don't like seeing is people coming on and calling players "cheats" , yet not calling their own players cheats, do you see where I am coming from?

flahavaj

OPENROAD wrote: »

I'm still waiting for Liverpool fans to come out and make a strong statement on this issue, people are quick to come out and condem the actions of other players very very strongly.

This gave me a right laugh. What do you want the Liverpool fans to do, call a f*cking press conference on the matter?:pac:

OPENROAD

SlickRic wrote: »

relax.

we know he dives. the majority here condemn it and call it cheating, and you know it.

we can't do anything about it. it's part of the game. Gerrard is particularly bad, but every team has players who dive, even your beloved Gunners.

so short of the entire Liverpool forum issuing a 'CHEAT' post every time he dives, I don't know what you want.

After last nights match if memory serves me correct Henry incident was brought up .

It is one of my major bugs, see my post above, people calling other players cheats yet they are not prepared to call their own players cheats and resort to it is part of the game angle

OPENROAD

flahavaj wrote: »

This gave me a right laugh. What do you want the Liverpool fans to do, call a f*cking press conference on the matter?:pac:

You still don't get it?


Did you read all the posts after last nights match?

SlickRic

OPENROAD wrote: »

After last nights match if memory serves me correct Henry incident was brought up and he as called a cheat and Cesc was called a cheat.

the heat of the moment.

it was last minute. i mean people were shouting 'penalty' too, even though it wasn't even close.

i have a similar pet hate when people are quick to call players cheats, and forget their own players do the same thing; and will then defend them to the death when it happens.

but to be fair; it's part of being a supporter too. you can't get hung up about it.

flahavaj

OPENROAD wrote: »

You still don't get it?

How could I not you've been repeating the same guff for the last few pages. Why don't you take a little break from the aul tooth grinding and have a browse on you-tube while you cool off? Theres some funny stuff on there. May I suggest typing "Eduardo Champions League laughing stock" into the search engine for a start. Then the lads can call that press conference, just for you.:pac:;)

OPENROAD

SlickRic wrote: »

the heat of the moment.

it was last minute. i mean people were shouting 'penalty' too, even though it wasn't even close.

i have a similar pet hate when people are quick to call players cheats, and forget their own players do the same thing; and will then defend them to the death when it happens.

but to be fair; it's part of being a supporter too. you can't get hung up about it.

I agree, but then as a Liverpool fan or any other fan you have to be able to take it as well as give it in future.

mayordenis

OPENROAD wrote: »

I agree, but then as a Liverpool fan or any other fan you have to be able to take it as well as give it in future.

We've all fully "taken it", have you?

OPENROAD

flahavaj wrote: »

How could I not you've been repeating the same guff for the last few pages. Why don't you take a little break from the aul tooth grinding and have a browse on you-tube while you cool off? Theres some funny stuff on there. May I suggest typing "Eduardo Champions League laughing stock" into the search engine for a start. Then the lads can call that press conference, just for you.:pac:;)

My point re asking the Liverpool fans to condem Gerrard in the same manner as Cesc was made after a Liverpool fan brought up Henry"thec heat" and had a go at Cesc.

Anyway I'm going to leave it at that, I normally don't like match threads going off like this and I'm contributing to it which is unusual for me so I 'll leave it at that.:)

SlickRic

OPENROAD wrote: »

I agree, but then as a Liverpool fan or any other fan you have to be able to take it as well as give it in future.

i do.

it's the banter.

i call your player a cheat, you call mine a cheat.

it's always going to happen.

you take part in it.

i don't know why you feel the need to lecture on this.

flahavaj

OPENROAD wrote: »

My point re asking the Liverpool fans to condem Gerrard in the same manner as Cesc was made after a Liverpool fan brought up Henry"thec heat" and had a go at Cesc.

Anyway I'm going to leave it at that, I normally don't like match threads going off like this and I'm contributing to it so I 'll leave it at that.:)

What did you expect on a Liverpool thread? Pitchforks? Some fights ain't worth it lad.

K-9

OPENROAD wrote: »

After last nights match if memory serves me correct Henry incident was brought up and he as called a cheat and Cesc was called a cheat.

It is one of my major bugs, see my post above, people calling other players cheats yet they are not prepared to call their own players cheats and resort to it is part of the game angle

One poster I think and Liverpool fans didn't take it on.

I think you should take it up with that particular fan, not all the Pool fans on the thread.

OPENROAD

K-9 wrote: »

One poster I think and Liverpool fans didn't take it on.

I think you should take it up with that particular fan, not all the Pool fans on the thread.

Fair enough, I have drawn a line on the matter so lets move on

noodler

jasonorr wrote: »

If you can't see how unclear that point was, I think you should keep your petty remarks to yourself and think about what you post more carefully!

Just don't dive into a discussion without knowing what is being discussed.

And "I laughed!"?

A petty remark if ever I saw one.

L'prof

noodler wrote: »

Just don't dive into a discussion without knowing what is being discussed.

And "I laughed!"?

A petty remark if ever I saw one.

I was reading...

mike65

Christ isn't this game over yet?

Splainc

mike65 wrote: »

Christ isn't this game over yet?

Second half just kicked off. I think we can nick a draw to be honest...

Spiritoftheseventies

K-9 wrote: »

One poster I think and Liverpool fans didn't take it on.

I think you should take it up with that particular fan, not all the Pool fans on the thread.

Only Sounness and Smith and everyone else apparently. Did i mention the word cheat. said it was a blatant handball. Like henry's.

OPENROAD

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Only Sounness and Smith and everyone else apparently. Did i mention the word cheat. said it was a blatant handball. Like henry's.

My apologies you didn't mention the word "cheat", sorry