[US/IRL] 6x03 - "What Kate Does" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Sad Professor

- WARNING: THIS THREAD WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT YET SEEN "WHAT KATE DOES" -

Episode Title: "What Kate Does"
Airdate: February 9th 2010

Synopsis (from TV.Com):

Kate finds herself on the run, while Jack is tasked with something that could endanger a friend's life.

Next New Episode: 6x04 - February 16th 2010

---

SPOILER WARNING:

From now on, this thread shall reveal details of the episode mentioned above. If you have not yet seen this episode, please do not move any further down the thread.

A REMINDER ABOUT USE OF SPOILERS:

No discussion of future episode spoilers. That includes anything the writers may have revealed in interviews, podcasts, etc. Even behind spoiler tags they don't belong in this thread. Promos for next week shouldn't be posted in here either.

And out of respect for those following the show on RTE, this episode should NOT be discussed outside of this thread until it has aired on RTE.

speedboatchase

2

Well this is terrible so far, characters serving the motivations of the writers and not the audiences:

Claire gets carjacked and her luggage stolen and sits around instead of calling the cops, then gets in the car with the carjacker later on?

Jack is going to give Sayid "medicine" for his "infection" without knowing what either is - he's a bloody doctor!

Kate shoves a gun in pregnant Claire's face in one scene and 10 mins later is indignant when that lady won't adopt the baby and Claire's water breaks?!

Ooooh it's back on...

Helix

2

speedboatchase wrote: »

Well this is terrible so far

agreed

Helix

2

3 from me, wouldve gotten a 1 but for

ethan and the "because it happened to your sister" line

also, they ruined the latter in the spoiler tags above by

showing claire in the very next scene, there was no need for that - they shouldve left the shooter a mystery til next week rather than following the best line in it with something that completely dulled its effect

Sad Professor

6

Guys, there's no need for spoiler tags.

speedboatchase

2

Weird ending aside, thank god that's over. Completely forced dynamic between Claire and Kate the entire episode - "take my credit card" - excuse me, WTF? I'm expected to believe that?

Some incredibly terrible writing for Jack too: "What's that?" "It's a baseball", "What's this?" It's coffee".

And the running arc of Kate in the episode, where she tracks Sawyer and then meets up to... watch him stare into the middle distance and think about Juliet for a few scenes?

Next weeks looks ok though. Can anyone tell me the point of these flash-sideways scenes? They seem to retell the first series but in a way you don't trust because it's all non-canon. 3/10 from me

waltersobchak

5

Filler episode, which is a pity because at this stage there really shouldnt be any..

Sad Professor

6

Nice episode.

As I said in the previous thread, I reckon the whispers are possessing Sayid. And that they are the followers of Smokey. This was the sickness that took Rousseau's team. Only 3 episodes in and lot of stuff is coming together.

Alt-Kate is subtly different. Much more confident and reckless. Ethan is a complete reversal of the man we met on the island. He didn't want to go "sticking needles" in Claire unnecessarily, lol. The old-Ethan certainly had no problem with this. There's loads of little easter eggs like this thrown in for the fans.

But despite all these differences the characters are still crossing paths and interacting in ways that mirror what occurred on the island. Mirrors are also a repeated visual in this timeline as well. Jack looking in a mirror in 6x01. Alt-Kate doing the same this week. One gets the feeling these two realities are very thinly separated.

The Claire reveal at the end was predictable but better than dragging it out for 7 episodes like happened with Michael in season 4.

kavsmdf

9

Well I thought it was great.

Just watch it and take it as it is.

Just because what you wanted to happen, doesn't happen, doesn't mean it wasn't good. I have a feeling this season is not going to be as predictable as we all think. I think they're going to comepletely stray away from all the predictions people have come up with.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

9

I thought it was great too... Very glad to see Claire back... and has anyone noticed that Jin finds everyone!!!

Season 2: He stumbles across Ana-Lucia, Libby, Eko, Bernard, and Cindy
Season 5: He finds Danielle and the other Frenchies in the past
Season 5: He finds Jack, Kate and Hurley when they return via the Ajira flight
Season 6: Her stumbles upon Claire

I'm sure there's other examples too...

Handsome Bob

7

Thought it was better than last week tbh. I was suspicious of Sayid the moment he started whining and asking that guy "just tell me what you want?" That's not the true Sayid IMO, even in the face of severe torture I don't think he would be begging.

tok9

6

enjoyable enough episode considering it was kate centric.

The Ethan cameo was excellent. What are the odds on Locke to meet Ben in his Alt.

It's a pity they didn't move the Locke storyline on a small bit even but we'll have to wait till next week i suppose.

I have to agree about the Claire reveal. It just seemed too easy or something

abelard

4

I'm starting to doubt that the flash-sideways are actually an alternate reality as such, but are just a hypothetical, the point of them being to illustrate that people can't escape their destiny.

For example, Claire was going to try give up her baby, but instead ended up on the island, had Kate deliver her baby, was 'treated' by Ethan and ended up keeping the baby, and called it Aaron

In the alternate timeline, Claire was trying to give up her baby, but the family rejected it, Kate took care of her, she got treated by Ethan, and is now likely to keep the baby and call it Aaron.

Maybe the writers are trying to say that the things that happened on the island were in some way a convergence of the relative destinies of all the survivors.

I mea if it is an alternate timeline, th events in the flash in this episode happened during the 24 hours after teh flight landed in LAX, which would have been within the first 24-36 hours after the flight crashed in the 'regular' timeline (allowing for flight time and whatever). At this stage, Kate was looking for the pilot with Jack and Claire was probably just on the beach - they probably hadn't even spoke to each other yet. The mirroring doesn't make as much sense in that respect.

Actually, not sure if the following is a spoiler (relates to something that was in this episode but perhaps was made hard to spot and will be a future reveal)

Claire's ultrasound was dated October 22nd, and Aaron was born on November 1st, so perhaps the timelines would match up, which would give more credence to the alternate reality over the hypothetical situation.

That depends on it not being a mistake of course.

MikeHoncho

5

Cant believe 3 people so far gave that a 10. Thought it was the worst episode since Season 3. I really hate Kate. She gets on my nerves something serious. Nice to have Claire back though. I missed her last year. She is even hotter now too.

I suppose the whole darkness thing is interesting I wonder do they have control of themselves or are they completely under the will of someone / something else. Why would Jacob want this to happen to Sayid?

Sad Professor

6

abelard wrote: »

I'm starting to doubt that the flash-sideways are actually an alternate reality as such, but are just a hypothetical, the point of them being to illustrate that people can't escape their destiny.

But if they are hypothetical then they aren't in a position to make that point. If indeed the purpose of them is to show that destiny prevails and the "universe course corrects" then both realities must be equally real and legitimate.

A hypothetical "what if" scenario might have worked if they were taking A Wonderful Life-type approach to these flash-sideways, i.e. showing us how much better off the characters are that they crashed on a crazy island. But that is absolutely not the direction the writers are headed in at all. These people are meeting and crossing paths with each other despite the island. I think *one* of the purposes of this will be to downplay the significance of the island in the end. This is probably a good thing if the writers want to deliver (as they claim) a character-driven endgame. As fans we've gotten so caught up with polar bears and donkey wheels that we may have forgotten that this show started out about a bunch of people on a plane.

TonyD79

6

Any significance to the way Kate looked at Jack when they were in the Taxi. It was more than "Oh he was on the plane" it looked like she recognised him for some reason but didnt know why.

anotherlostie

6

Disappointing after last week.

The weepy Sawyer stuff kind of made me cry - it bored me to tears.

No Flocke and co. - I kind of expected this as they used the same approach last year, but I would prefer a bit of both storylines rather than the single focus.

Kate and Claire's alt back story wasn't great apart from seeing Ethan (and I wish I didn't know all the actor's names when they pop up on the guest cast at the start!) And was that Kate's old house that they called to?

Risible dialogue between Dogen and Jack - last week Hurley was in charge, but Jack took back, or was given back control this week.

Good points - Claire being back on island and digging that Rousseau look, the reference to her being possessed like Sayid.

Yitzhak Rabin

9

anotherlostie wrote: »

last week Hurley was in charge, but Jack took back, or was given back control this week.

.

Miles' line about Hurley was hilarious!

opr

5

It was just ok in my book.

darrenh

4

Not a bad episode but poor considering the stage we're at. Anything that was of any relevance in that episode could have been fitted into the one before or the next one. As close to a filler as you'll get. I fully expected this season the be action packed and every episode feel like it was moving towards the end. That hasn't happened after the first 3.

silsean

6

Not bad. I was hoping for a tv equivalent of a page turning novel this season. But whatever.

I want more characters like Justin!! He should give a press conference about the island and clear up all the mystery. But alas new Rousseau killed him.

Daysha

3

Very poor episode overall I thought. The reintroduction of Claire saved it from being the worst one in years.

homerun_homer

5

I thought it was weak but think/hope that the content, even in the "filler" flash-sideways will serve to reap a few rewards down the line. The big issue is that Kate isn't as likeable as she was, if she ever was likeable to most fans, so it's harder to like an episode revolving around her.

For those complaining they saw Claire's return coming a mile away... come on. You're hardly Nostradamus. It was spelled out in the scene beforehand when Dogan told Jack his sister was infected, and it is only fitting to re-introduce her on the island when the flash-sideways features heavily on her.

MrMojoRisin'

filler filler filler

we deserve better after 5 years!

abelard

4

Sad Professor wrote: »

But if they are hypothetical then they aren't in a position to make that point. If indeed the purpose of them is to show that destiny prevails and the "universe course corrects" then both realities must be equally real and legitimate.

A hypothetical "what if" scenario might have worked if they were taking A Wonderful Life-type approach to these flash-sideways, i.e. showing us how much better off the characters are that they crashed on a crazy island. But that is absolutely not the direction the writers are headed in at all. These people are meeting and crossing paths with each other despite the island. I think *one* of the purposes of this will be to downplay the significance of the island in the end. This is probably a good thing if the writers want to deliver (as they claim) a character-driven endgame. As fans we've gotten so caught up with polar bears and donkey wheels that we may have forgotten that this show started out about a bunch of people on a plane.

Yeah I guess, maybe a hypothetical isn't exactly the right line of thinking.

I definitely think though that they're going to try make the whole similar destinies point. Whether it's course correction or destiny's hand or whatever will I guess be left as a matter of interpretation.

I'm wondering if we might see stuff like;
Charlie and Claire somehow meeting

Hurley meeting Libby (and they are bringing her back and explain her story) but it ending in her death

(this one is a pretty big spoiler I guess if you haven't been reading casting notes for the final season)
Locke and Boone striking up a freindship that ends in disaster
Some sort of Jack/Kate/Sawyer love triangle
etc

And also I wonder if we'll get "alternate flashbacks" of things like what happened Desmond/Juliet since they would never have come to the island, and what became of Ben.

Is it at all possible that any of the flashes we've seen at any stage throughout the series have in fact been alternate reality flashes?

Sad Professor

6

abelard wrote: »

Is it at all possible that any of the flashes we've seen at any stage throughout the series have in fact been alternate reality flashes?

Desmond's post-failsafe experiences in 1996 perhaps (in "Flashes Before Your Eyes")? This was when the idea of "course correction" was introduced, which never really sat too well with the "whatever happened happened" of later seasons. I definitely think there's a possibility that this was actually the alternate timeline. It would suggest that Hawking has knowledge of both realities, however.

Anima

4

Really average episode for this stage of the series. Bleh

oleras

abelard wrote: »

I'm starting to doubt that the flash-sideways are actually an alternate reality as such, but are just a hypothetical, the point of them being to illustrate that people can't escape their destiny.

For example, Claire was going to try give up her baby, but instead ended up on the island, had Kate deliver her baby, was 'treated' by Ethan and ended up keeping the baby, and called it Aaron

In the alternate timeline, Claire was trying to give up her baby, but the family rejected it, Kate took care of her, she got treated by Ethan, and is now likely to keep the baby and call it Aaron.

Maybe the writers are trying to say that the things that happened on the island were in some way a convergence of the relative destinies of all the survivors.

I mea if it is an alternate timeline, th events in the flash in this episode happened during the 24 hours after teh flight landed in LAX, which would have been within the first 24-36 hours after the flight crashed in the 'regular' timeline (allowing for flight time and whatever). At this stage, Kate was looking for the pilot with Jack and Claire was probably just on the beach - they probably hadn't even spoke to each other yet. The mirroring doesn't make as much sense in that respect.

Actually, not sure if the following is a spoiler (relates to something that was in this episode but perhaps was made hard to spot and will be a future reveal)

Claire's ultrasound was dated October 22nd, and Aaron was born on November 1st, so perhaps the timelines would match up, which would give more credence to the alternate reality over the hypothetical situation.

That depends on it not being a mistake of course.

The bolded part.

Doesnt "time" behave differently on the island ? Therefor 24 hours in the real world could be several days on island ?

[-0-]

3

Terrible episode. It was cringe worthy so many times. "I lied to him didn't I?"...."We were testing him"... and don't get me started on the whole pill thing... then Jack taking it and yer man stopping him and admitting it was poison. Give me a break like. The writing was so bad it made the acting look like absolute crap.

One of the worst episodes I have ever seen.

MarkR

That was terrible. I can only hope it was so terrible for some odd convoluted reason. Sayed all whiny, ok, could be possessed by someone. Kate and Claire / Thelma and Louise. Bleargh. Jack and evil ninja stuff made no sense at all. Hope next week is better.

the_monkey

7

I didn't much like it either, but the Ethan cameo and Claire revelation
made up for it ...


what is this darkness ?? Smokeys influence?? how did it get to Sayid ?
cos the water wasn't clear ???


Also, just getting my times right ... everyone is on the same time
on the island now ? - 2007 ?
after Juliet set the bomb they all ended up in 2007 correct?
along with Flocke ,Sun, Lepatis, Richard , other others and co. ??

meanwhile in flashsideways we are in 2004 ... ?

Kiith

6

I thought it was a decent episode. Loving the bits with Jack and Dogen. They seem much more important, and the most likely place we will be getting some answers in the coming episodes. The flash-sideways are a bit meh atm. Its kind of hard to care about some of them, without knowing their relevance to the main timeline.

Saying that, i still loved the Jack/Locke one from last week, so maybe its just the fact that Claire and Kate don't interest me that much (from a story point of view ).

Also, i'm thinking that the 'darkness' in Sayid is the same thing that happened to Ben when he was healed by the others in 1977?

the_monkey

7

Kiith wrote: »

Also, i'm thinking that the 'darkness' in Sayid is the same thing that happened to Ben when he was healed by the others in 1977?

yes !, good point ... also someone mentioned it was what made the french lads sick in '88 ..

Also notice that Dego isn't so disgusted by English anymore :P

darrenh

4

I have to say the more I think about it the more I'm very disappointed with it and I have never been critical of Lost. It's kind of maddening. Each episode now should be so enthralling that I keep praying it never ends.

The whole Alt timeline is BS in my opinion. All we care about is what happens on the Island. We like Lost because of all the questions, the Losties, the mysteries, and if they wanted to keep throwing new ones at us i would be happy with that. It should be full on island action for the whole season. I know they said it would be one timeline 1/3 through the season but so far its been poor. I was expecting a roller-coaster and we've got a nothing like it.

The episode was really annoying to watch. "Whats that?.... It's a baseball". The English language leaves a bad taste in my mouth guy wrecks my head. As does his translator. When Claire shot the annoying Other I was never so happy to see a character die in the show. Episodes now seem to need to have Locke and Ben in them first and foremost, then Sawyer (just cause he's cool and I feel sorry for him), Hurley and Miles for comedy and Jacob because he's interesting. Nobody seems to like Kate any more. I've suddenly grown a dislike to Sayid.

I have never been so disappointed with Lost. I will soldier on and would never repeat this to my Lost hating friends.

PetKing

6

Good episode, it slowed the pace down a little, but that was expected after LA X. I think everyone voting 3's after What Kate Does can get used to clicking that number.. There's not that many big mysteries left to answer, and if ye're expecting every episode of the last season to be EPIC ANSWER FEST, with 15 episodes left to go, ye got another thing coming.

Gave it a 7.

Sad Professor

6

oleras wrote: »

Doesnt "time" behave differently on the island ? Therefor 24 hours in the real world could be several days on island ?

No. The O6 were rescued after a 100 days on the island. When they left a 100 days had passed in the real world as well. Time is the same. Any time dilation effect has been the due to the way the traveller enters or leaves the island. One may lose or gain several hours/days, etc.

the_monkey wrote: »

Also, just getting my times right ... everyone is on the same time
on the island now ? - 2007 ?
after Juliet set the bomb they all ended up in 2007 correct?
along with Flocke ,Sun, Lepatis, Richard , other others and co. ??

meanwhile in flashsideways we are in 2004 ... ?

Yep.

Kiith wrote: »

Also, i'm thinking that the 'darkness' in Sayid is the same thing that happened to Ben when he was healed by the others in 1977?

I don't think so. The spring was presumedly functioning correcting when Ben was brought there, meaning he was healed. In contrast, Lennon was quite shocked to see Sayid come back to life and Dogen wanted him dead. If the same thing had happened to Ben I don't think they would have made him their leader.

speedboatchase

2

PetKing wrote: »

Good episode, it slowed the pace down a little, but that was expected after LA X. I think everyone voting 3's after What Kate Does can get used to clicking that number.. There's not that many big mysteries left to answer, and if ye're expecting every episode of the last season to be EPIC ANSWER FEST, with 15 episodes left to go, ye got another thing coming.

Gave it a 7.

the_monkey

7

Well we have a lot more to find out .... Richards story on the island ,
what the hell that statue is of ?? - crocodile head !!??? whats the deal with that ??

Smokey --- on island ?? man made ???

adam and eve ???

Widmore ....

I think we have a fair few eps with big revelations to come !!

PetKing

6

the_monkey wrote: »

Well we have a lot more to find out .... Richards story on the island ,
what the hell that statue is of ?? - crocodile head !!??? whats the deal with that ??

Smokey --- on island ?? man made ???

adam and eve ???

Widmore ....

I think we have a fair few eps with big revelations to come !!

Richard on the island -- taken care of in one Richard episode (and Widmore along with him as we flash through his life me thinks)
The statue -- Taweret --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taweret
Smokey -- Flocke wll be dealt with. 15 episodes to go.
Adam and Eve wont need an hour, and will probably be the endning, sun rise sun set etc...

the_monkey

7

hmmm ... you got me there.....

ok, these will be expanded on ... maybe more history of the island, and
you never know, this flashsideways could give us some more info..

Sad Professor

6

PetKing wrote: »

The statue -- Taweret --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taweret

I really hope it's not Taweret. It looks much more like Sobek.

This is Taweret:


This is Sobek:


They are both associated with fertility. The only reason to make it Taweret is to provide an explanation for the four toes - which I really couldn't care less about.

cooker3

Well, that was poor. That may even be the worst episode since Stranger in a strange land. I guess it just goes to show no matter what timeline is used a Kate centric episode is just not going to be all that interesting.
Adding Jack returning to old school annoying Jack to the mix as well as Sawyer just continually moaning, meh.
Oh also, continuity error. Ben told Rousseau, Karl and Alex that could get to the temple from the barracks in 1 and a half days. Sawyer and Kate got there a whole lot quicker!

It was interspersed with some fun references and moments though. Such as the zombie reference for all those who listen to the podcast. Ethan turning up and also Aldo. In some ways this episode had the feel of the prison island arc.

On the plus side, the ending was very nice and sets up the Claire backstory which I am eagerly awaiting. Hopefully we get some Ben/Esau action as well.

don ramo

7

anyone finding the timeline weird, at teh start of LA X we saw the island submerged under water, when was the island sunk, i presumed it was sunk when juliet detonated the bomb in 1977, yet ethan who was on the island at the time, but, was in this episode,

plus id ont think it 2007 anymore, the way yerman julian (was it) was talking i dont think it is,

i like how claire has gone native, are they just gonna give her a danielle story or are they gonna make up a better one,

i dont think theyve finnished asking all the question yet, but i like that there still annoying us with new ones, thats what makes lost different, there still time to tell the end,

cant wait to see if widmore makes an appearance also, remeber it was ben that threw him of the island, and he was the one who ended up siding was smokey and killing jacob, so i think widmore probably has the islands interest at heart, we think of him as a corporate tycon but he was obviously a smart man, thus why he was a leader of the others at one stage,

question though was the water clear when ben was healed,

silsean

6

Also Ethans name was Dr. Goodspeed rather than Ethan Rom. It could be Ethan Goodspeed. Anyway it's not a big deal, just a small quirk to the parallel timelines. Worth a mention.

cooker3

Well Ethan Goodspeed is what his name should be.
There is no way they had planned that his parents would be Horace and Amy 4 years in advance anyway.

Kiith

6

don ramo wrote: »

anyone finding the timeline weird, at teh start of LA X we saw the island submerged under water, when was the island sunk, i presumed it was sunk when juliet detonated the bomb in 1977, yet ethan who was on the island at the time, but, was in this episode

I figured that Ethan's mother (Amy) got off the Island with everyone else on the sub, before Juliet detonated the bomb.

Also, am i the only one who doesnt hate Jack? People have always bitched about him, but i've never really seen it. Especially from season 3 onwards, i thought he's gotten better and better (putting the gun to Locke's head, and pulling the trigger at the top of the list). Guess i just like the leader types.

cian1500ww

3 episodes into the new season and I'm still confused. It's still good though but I enjoyed the earlier seasons much more.

PetKing

6

don ramo wrote: »

anyone finding the timeline weird, at teh start of LA X we saw the island submerged under water, when was the island sunk, i presumed it was sunk when juliet detonated the bomb in 1977, yet ethan who was on the island at the time, but, was in this episode,

Ethan was born on the island in the original timeline to Horace Goodspeed and Amy, and presumably changed his name to Rom as a way of shedding himself of the Dharma Initiative. Like Ben, he must have moved over to the Other's side, otherwise he would have died during the purge.

I assume Horace and Amy simply had him off island in this reality, and he kept his name.

Agamemnon

6

That was a bit weak, but the return of Claire and Ethan made up for it. Should be interesting to watch the Others try to grab Aaron in the alt-timeline. Hopefully next ep will be a Claire flashback, even if flashbacks now go against the dual-timeline structure.

So if Claire was taken over by the "darkness", possibly the same thing happened to Christian. Maybe he popped out of the coffin half-alive when the plane crashed and was taken to the Temple to be healed. Then he went to the bad. Or maybe he's just a Smokey-like apparition. The truth behind what's really happening with Christian is one of the big reveals this season has to answer.

cooker3

I think the fundamental problem with Jack above all else is he just not all that interesting. I think it's partly the character and partly the acting of Matthew Fox. There is nothing compelling about him and the only time he is is when he with Ben, Locke or the main cog in a bigger story and yet because he is hero we are totally over-exposed to him.
Exactly the same with Kate although at least she's good to look at.

Yitzhak Rabin

9

Agamemnon wrote: »

the return of Claire and Ethan made up for it. Should be interesting to watch the Others try to grab Aaron in the alt-timeline. Hopefully next ep will be a Claire flashback, even if flashbacks now go against the dual-timeline structure.

I have a feeling next week's episode will focus more on Flocke, Ben and Richard. We probably won't see Claire again until the week after.

Although, you're right, with the new flash-sideways, I hope we don't miss finding out wtf claire has been doing for the last 3 years.