Race for 4th

flahavaj

Manchester City

therokerroar wrote: »

A strange comment to make considering Liverpool have lost more games than both Spurs and Villa this season and have put in worse performances than Spurs and Villa did tonight this season too.

Does that make Liverpool 'simply nowhere near good enough for the CL' then? Based on your logic, it should.

No. Liverpol have already proven they are good enough for the CL the past number of years. They've been unbelievably sh*t this season, but nonetheless they've still been there and done it several times. Villa and Spurs, on the other hand have never been there or done it. They've done better than previous season's but just when you think they're actually good enough theyll lose to Wolves like Spurs or put in an over-cagey showing like Villa tonight.

Liverpool may have lost a few games more than Villa/Spurs but their experience will count for far more than that in the run in.

Anyway not sure what your point is you've predicted Liverpool to get there as well, so we're in agreement. Stop looking for a problem when there isn't one.

Kev_ps3

Manchester City

Liverpool. City are too unpredictable.

joe123

To be honest Im seriously worried that City will pip us to it. I think so much is reliant on Torres coming back. Tonight we just looked looked awful as an attacking threat.

Its between us and City.

Gillington

Spurs

City's fixtures

13 February 2010 17:15 H Stoke City FA Cup
16 February 2010 19:45 A Stoke City
21 February 2010 15:00 H Liverpool
27 February 2010 12:45 A Chelsea
06 March 2010 12:45 H Tottenham Hotspur
14 March 2010 16:00 A Sunderland
20 March 2010 15:00 A Fulham
29 March 2010 20:00 H Wigan Athletic
03 April 2010 15:00 A Burnley
10 April 2010 15:00 H Birmingham City
17 April 2010 15:00 H Manchester United
24 April 2010 15:00 A Arsenal
01 May 2010 15:00 H Aston Villa
09 May 2010 15:00 A West Ham United

Every team gets a block of games like these but I reckon ours could be the doing of us especially the United and Arsenal games at the end of the season,I've always said I'd settle for Europa but being in the position we are now I'm getting greedy!

jonnybadd

Spurs

Would love to see City do it but they have a tendency to throw things away when they are in an advantageous position, they work well as underdogs but when they're expected to win they just seem to go to pieces

Bounty Hunter

City Should do it

Liverpool will probably do it

Id love Villa to do it and they have the best fixtures but probably lack one more class striker

Spurs wont really challenge for 4th imo

Liverpool's next game is City away.

That game will have a huge bearing on it. Liverpool can't afford to lose but really need to be winning it tbh.

JimsAlterEgo

think Villa will do it. O'Neill has the experience

Big question mark over pool due to Europa league, IMO Benitez will prioritize it to get a trophy to try and save the season and that may be to the detriment of their league position. Will probably draw too many games.

City IMO will prob bottle it , the hull game showed that they will always get silly results. City won't draw many but will lose or win.

Spurs are just spurs, no backbone for a fight can see them drifting down the table.

A dark horse could be Everton-hitting form and with teams above them playing each other soon they might sneak into the reckoning.

Johner

Manchester City

Pool and easily in the end.

GavRedKing

Spurs

Cant look beyond City's 2 games in hand, so for me its City's 4th place.

ROCKMAN

Spurs

Like Villa to get fourth , but think they lack a bit of firepower to get it.
Voted for City simply because of the games in hand .

leninbenjamin

Manchester City

I said Pool back in Autumn in the middle of their dire run and I still believe it. Once the season gets to the run in, legs become tired quicker, recovery time takes longer and experience takes over.

ziggy

Manchester City

This post has been deleted.

Xavi6

Spurs

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

think Villa will do it. O'Neill has the experience

What experience? Finishing in a Europa spot? Or challenging for top four? Cause we all saw how the latter ended up last time.

City IMO will prob bottle it , the hull game showed that they will always get silly results.

Our 'silly results' are no different to some of Liverpool's this year, or Spurs for that matter. Every team has the odd blip, and even then losing away to Hull is no disgrace.

Boggles

I tipped Liverpool to scrape it at the start of the season.

They have to get a result against New Money next week.

If they don't I suspect City might pip it.

Iago

Manchester City

poll is missing Arsenal imo


edit:

Having looked at the run-in and put my patented prediction software to use I've established the following.

Arsenal will finish 3rd a good 5-7 points clear of Liverpool in 4th who just pip City by 2 points. Villa finish 6th only 1 measly point behind and Spurs/Everton end up 7th/8th a few points further adrift.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Manchester City

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Where's the Everton option in the poll?

Around mid-table.

Eirebear

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Its just like the "3rd force" in scotland, but try telling that to the people who deride it as a two horse race....

noodler

Manchester City

Xavi6 wrote: »

What experience? Finishing in a Europa spot? Or challenging for top four? Cause we all saw how the latter ended up last time.



Our 'silly results' are no different to some of Liverpool's this year, or Spurs for that matter. Every team has the odd blip, and even then losing away to Hull is no disgrace.

Slating Villa for challenging before?

Surely the fact they blew it once stands them in better stead overall.

Challenging and getting a Europa League spot is surely better than what City achieved last season.

Warper

Manchester City

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I agree but its only an achievement for clubs that have no chance of winning the title - everyone bar Chelsea and Man Utd.

JimsAlterEgo

noodler wrote: »

Slating Villa for challenging before?

Surely the fact they blew it once stands them in better stead overall.

Challenging and getting a Europa League spot is surely better than what City achieved last season.

exactly my point - he has experience of challenging for Europe

K-9

Manchester City

Gillington wrote: »

City's fixtures

13 February 2010 17:15 H Stoke City FA Cup
16 February 2010 19:45 A Stoke City
21 February 2010 15:00 H Liverpool
27 February 2010 12:45 A Chelsea
06 March 2010 12:45 H Tottenham Hotspur
14 March 2010 16:00 A Sunderland
20 March 2010 15:00 A Fulham
29 March 2010 20:00 H Wigan Athletic
03 April 2010 15:00 A Burnley
10 April 2010 15:00 H Birmingham City
17 April 2010 15:00 H Manchester United
24 April 2010 15:00 A Arsenal
01 May 2010 15:00 H Aston Villa
09 May 2010 15:00 A West Ham United

Every team gets a block of games like these but I reckon ours could be the doing of us especially the United and Arsenal games at the end of the season,I've always said I'd settle for Europa but being in the position we are now I'm getting greedy!

Still having to play each of the top 6 is what decides it for me. Liverpool it is.

One of Citys games in hand is next week against Stoke (A). Not a gimme at all.

lisbon_lions

The poll definitely should have Arsenal in there.

1) ManU, 2) Chelsea, 3) ManCity, 4) Arsenal. With Liverpool having to settle for Uefa cup spot in 5th.

SlickRic

Boggles wrote: »

I tipped Liverpool to scrape it at the start of the season.

They have to get a result against New Money next week.

If they don't I suspect City might pip it.

can't add much to this.

the City game is absolutely massive in terms of this race for 4th.

Spurs need to snap out of their current lull.

Villa, imo, will remain quite consistent for the rest of the season. they're far more solid than last year, so any major slip-ups by City and Liverpool could see them sneak it.

i'm going for a pessimistic...

4th - City
5th - Liverpool
6th - Villa
7th - Spurs

and thus, the Rafa thread will be re-created for the summer

Warper

Manchester City

Everton are a better team than Spurs, City and Villa. They have consistently been the best team outside of the Top 4 for the past 5 years.

Gillington

Spurs

Warper wrote: »

Everton are a better team than Spurs, City and Villa. They have consistently been the best team outside of the Top 4 for the past 5 years.

Yeah i like Everton but I just dont think they have the squad to deal with a few injuries like earlier in the season

Redzer7

Think Villa might take fourth spot, either them or Liverpool.

MementoMori

Manchester City

Liverpool have Torres, Benayoun, and Johnson all to come back and have conceeded 2 goals in their last 8 games.

Villa aren't going to score enough goals to win enough games. I don't expect them to fade as badly as last season but they don't have enough firepower up front.

City's defence is just not reliable enough especially against top opposition.

Spurs are going to be Spurs and probably going to find some sort of amusing way to eff it up.

By rights Liverpool shouldn't be in fourth spot now considering the results in the first half of the season. The failure of the other three teams to capitalise then is what's going to ensure Liverpool will do it.

Col200sx

Fair play OP for the thread/poll, but it's very limited with just those teams. Everton should be included.

It's like giving a field of 16 horses, but only counting a few of them, saying they're the only ones in contention and not even the home straight in sight.

A lot happens in football over the length of a season, and I'm sure this season will throw up surprises yet.

Yes, I'm an Everton fan, but how they along with other teams around with a fair chance are not included is pointless really.

For the record I think Everton will do it........... *awaits backlash:D

Col200sx

Col200sx wrote: »

Fair play OP for the thread/poll, but it's very limited with just those teams. Everton should be included.

Might as well throw in Stoke too, if they win their game in hand they are 2 points behind Everton.

Col200sx

rarnes1 wrote: »

Might as well throw in Stoke too, if they win their game in hand they are 2 points behind Everton.

Yep, and Birmingham City, and Fulham too. There's a lot of points to play for yet;)

MementoMori

Manchester City

Col200sx wrote: »

Fair play OP for the thread/poll, but it's very limited with just those teams. Everton should be included.

It's like giving a field of 16 horses, but only counting a few of them, saying they're the only ones in contention and not even the home straight in sight.

A lot happens in football over the length of a season, and I'm sure this season will throw up surprises yet.

Yes, I'm an Everton fan, but how they along with other teams around with a fair chance are not included is pointless really.

For the record I think Everton will do it........... *awaits backlash:D

Everton might have had a shout if not for the injuries in the first half of the season. They've left themselves too much to do especially given their remaining fixtures. Too many tricky fixtures.

Assuming City win their two games in hand City would be 4th with 26 games played on 50 points, while Everton would have 25 games played on 35. Too big a gap to be realistic contenders.

Man Utd (h)
Tottenham (a)
Hull City (h)
Birmingham (a)
Bolton (h)
Wolves (a)
West Ham (h)
Aston Villa (a)
Blackburn (a)
Fulham (h)
Stoke City (a)
Portsmouth (a)

K-9

Manchester City

rarnes1 wrote: »

Might as well throw in Stoke too, if they win their game in hand they are 2 points behind Everton.

Liverpool and City are still in the race for the title too.

L'prof

Manchester City

Iago wrote: »

poll is missing Arsenal imo

lisbon_lions wrote: »

The poll definitely should have Arsenal in there.

1) ManU, 2) Chelsea, 3) ManCity, 4) Arsenal. With Liverpool having to settle for Uefa cup spot in 5th.

I genuienly feel that Arsenal will gain more ground on United and Chelsea than they'll lose to City, Liverpool, Villa or Spurs.

So at the moment we're 6 behind Chelsea, 5 behind United, potentially 2 ahead of City, 8 ahead of Liverpool, potentially 7 ahead of Villa & 9 ahead of Spurs.

EDIT: Just saw your edit there Iago.

Kidchameleon

Manchester City

Perhaps liverpool will not put too much into the Europa games, instead concentrating on getting 4th? Like what Villa dona last year, unsuccsesfully!

Col200sx

MementoMori wrote: »

Everton might have had a shout if not for the injuries in the first half of the season. They've left themselves too much to do especially given their remaining fixtures. Too many tricky fixtures.

Assuming City win their two games in hand City would be 4th with 26 games played on 50 points, while Everton would have 25 games played on 35. Too big a gap to be realistic contenders.

Man Utd (h)
Tottenham (a)
Hull City (h)
Birmingham (a)
Bolton (h)
Wolves (a)
West Ham (h)
Aston Villa (a)
Blackburn (a)
Fulham (h)
Stoke City (a)
Portsmouth (a)

Bear in mind one of Man City's games in hand is against Everton, so a potential 6-pointer in terms of 4th spot. And Everton have a good record at Eastlands in recent years.

Plus you haven't that fixture in there in your list above. Count them, there's no Man City on that list, yet they've only played 25 this season;)

Columbia

Everton should be an option IMO. They're currently second in the form table, whilst Birmingham are 9th, Villa are 11th and Spurs are 14th. Everton will overtake all of these teams IMO, and if two of them are apparent challengers for 4th then Everton must be too. A couple of months ago we were 15 points behind the top 4, 12 days ago we were 12 points behind (with a gamd in hand), now we're 9 points behind (with a game in hand). I don't think they will do it (City are pipping it for me right now, although I'd really like to see Villa get there), but it is basically incorrect to disregard them as an option.

Stoke, Birmingham, etc., don't get in just because they're near Everton in the table, because neither of these teams are making forward progression in the league, whilst Everton are. 3 weeks ago Everton were about 8 points behind Birmingham, now it's 2.

None of this is a reaction to the Chelsea result btw, I've been expecting this since before Christmas, hence my anally taking note of points differences

Jordonvito

Spurs

suprised city arent running away with this poll, they have stoke and liverpool next at home, both of which i think they will win, im a united fan, and in a perfect world neither of these would be 4th, but id prefer city to get it, and watch liverpool fall to peices in the summer haha

karma_

Spurs

Warper wrote: »

Everton are a better team than Spurs, City and Villa. They have consistently been the best team outside of the Top 4 for the past 5 years.

If Everton were a better team than those they wouldn't be 15points behind. Also, the measure of a team is not how good they were last year, or 5 years ago, but this year. I accept that Everton have had injury problems, sure they were hit harder than most but every team has to put up with injuries so a good squad is a must in the premier league.

I don't buy the argument that City cannot hack it against teh big teams, this year we have beaten Arsenal twice, Chelsea, United and drawn away to Liverpool. Yes, we have slipped against mid-table teams, but show me a team in the top 6 right now who hasn't!

Columbia

By the by, the likelihood is that Portsmouth going out of business will mean that all of their games this season are null and void.

City would lose six points, Tottenham three, Villa three, and Liverpool would lose none, since they've only played Pompey once this season and lost. Thought I'd throw it in as if it happens it would be very relevant to the discussion.

Carcharodon

Spurs

Going win Man City mainly because of their games in hand, also have some top notch quality in the side in respect to the likes of Given, Tevez, Ade... I really do think that letting Dunne go in one of the most classless acts ever could come to bite them in the ass.

After watching Villas last couple of games, they really don't seem up to it in my opinion, good at the back but little creativity or drive going forward.

Would like to see Spurs get it as I feel they have played the best soccer out of the teams mentioned. They have some lovely technical classy players that are a joy to watch. They seem to be stumbling a bit at the moment though and not getting the wins that they should be picking up.

Liverpool will undoubtedly put together some run of form and snatch it. I really hope they don't as I don't like their style of play, but winning ugly is still winning.

sprinkles

Spurs

It's the mark of the state the league is in when a team as bad as Liverpool are this season are looking like they will maintain their spot in the top 4. What does one of the top 4 teams have to do to lose it? The Spurs Liverpool match really hammered home how poor the rest of the Premier League are outside the top 3. It was diabolical. (Myself and a friend were in the pub and decided to play a drinking game - take a drink every time either team strung 3 passes together. I gave up when I noticed my Guinness was going stale!)

Spurs are so inconsistent they can't be relied upon to take the spot. They'll destroy a team one week and look as though they never kicked a ball the next. With no CL they will be in financial ruin in another 2 years if 'Arry has his way!

Man City look like the only serious contenders for 4th but their away form has been shocking and some of their "big" signings have failed to produce. Even though Mancini has them playing a little better, with the run in they have in the last 4 games I can't see them picking up many points at a time they they will invariably need them.

Villa have nothing up front. Best defense in the league means nothing if you are not doing the business at the other end. Bit disappointed that O'Neil didn't bring in a striker or possibly more importantly a creative midfielder in Jan. IMO they haven't progressed at all from last season.

So... Pool for 4th. Damn!

K-9

Manchester City

Columbia wrote: »

By the by, the likelihood is that Portsmouth going out of business will mean that all of their games this season are null and void.

City would lose six points, Tottenham three, Villa three, and Liverpool would lose none, since they've only played Pompey once this season and lost. Thought I'd throw it in as if it happens it would be very relevant to the discussion.

Yes, but City would gain a game in hand on Liverpool as well. City would have 3 games in hand, but be 6 points behind them. Still, a better situation than at the minute, especially if it happened before the City game.




Problem Everton face is they are hoping for all 4 teams to do considerably worse than them in the run in.

Basically you are hoping for City to drop 12 points more than you in their last 14 games and for the 3 others to drop 6 more points than you.

Columbia

K-9 wrote: »

Yes, but City would gain a game in hand on Liverpool as well. City would have 3 games in hand, but be 6 points behind them. Still, a better situation than at the minute, especially if it happened before the City game.




Problem Everton face is they are hoping for all 4 teams to do considerably worse than them in the run in.

Basically you are hoping for City to drop 12 points more than you in their last 14 games and for the 3 others to drop 6 more points than you.

Indeed you're completely right, and that is why I don't think Everton will do it, because at least one of those teams is going to get their act together eventually (Liverpool look to be getting going now, but City have those games in hand). However I do think Everton will overtake at least 3 of the teams above them, and from that point of view they should be on the list, even though I wouldn't vote for them if they were there.

The Portsmouth games being written off will be a massive advantage to Liverpool, essentially handing them three points, could be decisive come the end of the season. Hopefully it won't come to it though.

K-9

Manchester City

Columbia wrote: »

Indeed you're completely right, and that is why I don't think Everton will do it, because at least one of those teams is going to get their act together eventually (Liverpool look to be getting going now, but City have those games in hand). However I do think Everton will overtake at least 3 of the teams above them, and from that point of view they should be on the list, even though I wouldn't vote for them if they were there.

The Portsmouth games being written off will be a massive advantage to Liverpool, essentially handing them three points, could be decisive come the end of the season. Hopefully it won't come to it though.

Indeed, if you'd have beaten us, you'd be right back in it, though the Chelsea result was brilliant. It wasn't a six pointer though, the Pool game was.

Your run in isn't too bad after the next 2 games and I can see ye moving up a place or two by the seasons end, if you get a result at Spurs.

By the looks of it, Cities games in hand are Stoke (A) Next week and against ye. not a guaranteed 6 points at all.

brayblue24

K-9 wrote: »

Yes, but City would gain a game in hand on Liverpool as well. City would have 3 games in hand, but be 6 points behind them. Problem Everton face is they are hoping for all 4 teams to do considerably worse than them in the run in.Basically you are hoping for City to drop 12 points more than you in their last 14 games and for the 3 others to drop 6 more points than you.

Ah, my head, my head:eek::eek:

JPA

K-9 wrote: »

Yes, but City would gain a game in hand on Liverpool as well. City would have 3 games in hand, but be 6 points behind them. Still, a better situation than at the minute, especially if it happened before the City game.

How would City have 3 games in hand? Who else are they gonna play?

Columbia

K-9 wrote: »

Indeed, if you'd have beaten us, you'd be right back in it, though the Chelsea result was brilliant. It wasn't a six pointer though, the Pool game was.

Your run in isn't too bad after the next 2 games and I can see ye moving up a place or two by the seasons end, if you get a result at Spurs.

By the looks of it, Cities games in hand are Stoke (A) Next week and against ye. not a guaranteed 6 points at all.

I was disappointed with the derby result at the time, but I'm positively fuming over it now! Could have been right back in it, as you say, but we'll just have to see what happens now.

K-9

Manchester City

JPA wrote: »

How would City have 3 games in hand? Who else are they gonna play?

It's hard to explain simply.

The best way I seen it explained is remember it will become a 36 game season.

Liverpool have played Portsmouth once, I think Villa and Spurs are the same.

They'll all lose one game played.

City have played them twice, they'll lose 2 games played.

It would look like:

Liverpool P 25 Pts 44

Spurs P 25 Pts 40


Villa P 24 Pts 39

City P 22 Pts 38

Columbia wrote: »

I was disappointed with the derby result at the time, but I'm positively fuming over it now! Could have been right back in it, as you say, but we'll just have to see what happens now.

In a strange way it maybe better having more six pointer games. As long as you win them of course!

rossie1977

therokerroar wrote: »

A strange comment to make considering Liverpool have lost more games than both Spurs and Villa this season and have put in worse performances than Spurs and Villa did tonight this season too.

if losing less games meant anything liverpool would have been champions last two seasons. ffs villa have lost the same number of games as utd, city have lost one less, surely that means they are title challengers